Data FINAL: Confirmed 1.0.8 Patch Notes

[Sonic Orochi]

I think the dair may be easier to spike with. Just hear me out, don't kill me for saying may. I have been testing for a while and I have been getting dair spikes much more consistently. if you look at Sonic Orochi's Gif, you'll see that that was a pretty weird position for CF to get spiked. From more testing, it seems as if the spike window is active for longer, but this could just be placebo or me sucking before.

Nah, it looks weird in the gif because the spike was hitting CF's ledgesnap hurtbox.

That's why I said inb4nerf, because it can potentially work on anybody in the cast.

Oh, I was definitely confused by what you meant. Didn't realize the gif had two different Dairs. Assumed it was a loop.

I don't notice a real difference though.

It is different because the spike hitbox is only present around Sonic's foot. In a normal situation, that Dair would've sent CF upwards instead of spiking him.

 

[Algo922]

Hi, newbie here, been following this thread for a while and came here to chime in.I don't know the difference between the blast zones between the 3DS and Wii U version but in anycase I found myself using the same test environments Jaimex2 used to calculate the difference between 1.0.7 and 1.0.8. I believe my 3DS version is 1.0.4/1.0.5? in anycase I found myself killing Mario at 117%, the same as 1.0.8

 

[jaimex2]

I noticed earlier in the thread after doing another read through that he was using CPUs said to Human, so the weird DI thing shouldn't be an issue. Will be going with his data.

Thanks for all your work, everyone.

EDIT: @ jaimex2 - Noticed that you said Fthrow kills earlier but didn't mark it with color like you did the others. Was leaving out the color a mistake or is the number change a typo?

Yep, I set it to human so the CPU wouldn't skew results.

Thanks for pointing the colour change. Its not a typo, I tried about 10 times to match the 1.0.7 results to make sure it wasn't a minor variation.

 

[theanjo]

I'm a little late to this, but I think the dair buff needs some slight clarification.

You're probably all aware that in 3DS, FD's blast zones are slightly farther apart. This includes the bottom blast zone, which doesn't seem to be tested all that often.

Why is this important? Well, in 3DS you were always able to dair without an initial jump (I believe you could go as low as being level with the top of FD's platform if I'm not mistaken.) and make it back due to the farther blast zone giving you slightly more time to input a double jump. Wii U Sonic players know you need to jump in order to avoid an SD because you couldn't act in time. Again, this is because Wii U's blast zones for FD are closer. This is probably why @TwicH was really confused with our claims earlier in this thread.

Basically, the dair buff makes Sonic's gameplay in 3DS and Wii U more consistent, as now the options on how high/low you want to use dair are the same. Wii U players are not as restricted using this move when going for a gimp/spike.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

 

[Luig]

I'm a little late to this, but I think the dair buff needs some slight clarification.

You're probably all aware that in 3DS, FD's blast zones are slightly farther apart. This includes the bottom blast zone, which doesn't seem to be tested all that often.

Why is this important? Well, in 3DS you were always able to dair without an initial jump (I believe you could go as low as being level with the top of FD's platform if I'm not mistaken.) and make it back due to the farther blast zone giving you slightly more time to input a double jump. Wii U Sonic players know you need to jump in order to avoid an SD because you couldn't act in time. Again, this is because Wii U's blast zones for FD are closer. This is probably why @TwicH was really confused with our claims earlier in this thread.

Basically, the dair buff makes Sonic's gameplay in 3DS and Wii U more consistent, as now the options on how high/low you want to use dair are the same. Wii U players are not as restricted using this move when going for a gimp/spike.

We have been saying that pre patch even on 3ds, dair has too much end lag for you to recover unless you perfectly wall kick. And now we have video evidence. Yay. Also under 301 club!

 

[Camalange]

It is different because the spike hitbox is only present around Sonic's foot. In a normal situation, that Dair would've sent CF upwards instead of spiking him.

So the spike is also easier to land in addition to them adding earlier IASA frames... ?

 

[Sonic Orochi]

So the spike is also easier to land in addition to them adding earlier IASA frames... ?

Easier to use it when trying to capitalize on ledgesnapping vulnerability since now we don't need to hop before Dairing (makes timing it easier etc).

The spike hitbox itself is unchanged.

 

[Camalange]

Easier to use it when trying to capitalize on ledgesnapping vulnerability since now we don't need to hop before Dairing (makes timing it easier etc).

The spike hitbox itself is unchanged.

Oh, that makes sense. That's what I was getting at when I meant it didn't look different to me.

 

[theanjo]

Well that disproved most what I said, which is good. I am still right about blast zone distances. Granted, I was wrong about how much leeway Sonic's dair has, the point still stands that dair's restrictions were inconsistent between versions. It's too late for me to see what height on Wii U is safe and what isn't, but I do recall the "safe height" being set higher before the patch.

Seems like prepatch 3DS lets Sonic recover just enough from a canceled short hop. I believe that prepatch Wii U will cause Sonic to SD before he can act. I'm trying to remember what my exact results were from this a few months back, because I was testing Sonic's dair for stage builder. I was trying to figure out what was the perfect size and placement for an FD like stage, and from what I gathered, a y coordinate of of either -1 or -2 (I can't recall exactly) on a small stage had dair results similar to 3DS, and a y of -3 was exactly like Wii U.

 

[Espy Rose]

Like that dair change. Nice.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Proof BSD does 24%: http://gfycat.com/LoneMajesticIndianelephant

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I feel like that change to BSD was less that the move does more damage on the initial hit and more of the fact that it gains an extra hit when you jump. Still pretty nice i guess though i'll forever miss It's invincibility allowing us to get through most projectiles. (it made the ZSS MU actual doable due to allowing us to approach with our spin dash)

 

[cerealkiller]

Guys I know that I contribute zero for patch notes but for those who do, this is how you document confirmed changes
Very nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7TmFdK_bVE

 

[Espy Rose]

No. Videos take forever to get the information across. If all those Ike changes were just posted in a neat, formatted post, it'd be better.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Some people just won't believe the data until video proof is posted, though..

 

[Camalange]

Side by side visual confirmation is nice when different people have differing frame data who simultaneously confirm or debunk certain claims -_-

 

[cerealkiller]

No. Videos take forever to get the information across. If all those Ike changes were just posted in a neat, formatted post, it'd be better.

You know nothing you orange pony. Have you not head of "Pics/Vids or it didn't happen!!"? That's sacred around the Internet.

 

[Luig]

I think its safe to assume that sonic got slightly buffed this patch. I was so nervous downloading the new patch if we'd get falcon punched again.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Well, while I agree that a visual comparison is indeed the best way to convey new frame data info, being in denial of a mechanic change of a move that was already well-documented in a specialized thread is just being inconvenient.

And repeatedly stating that there was no change whatsoever without even trying to post proof is just bs.

Sorry about the rant but that just irks me too much.

 

[Camalange]

I think its safe to assume that sonic got slightly buffed this patch. I was so nervous downloading the new patch if we'd get falcon punched again.

Not so sure we got buffed as much as it was a give and take.

Well, while I agree that a visual comparison is indeed the best way to convey new frame data info, being in denial of a mechanic change of a move that was already well-documented in a specialized thread is just being inconvenient.

And repeatedly stating that there was no change whatsoever without even trying to post proof is just bs.

Sorry about the rant but that just irks me too much.

I feel you, but for example, I keep getting different data about Uthrow. Some showing data that says it changes, while others show it stayed the same. A visual is the most undeniable way of proving something on the internet, unfortunately.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Not so sure we got buffed as much as it was a give and take.

I feel you, but for example, I keep getting different data about Uthrow. Some showing data that says it changes, while others show it stayed the same. A visual is the most undeniable way of proving something on the internet, unfortunately.

I think that the Dair buff is huge. We can now stall the Dair and still be able to edgeguard/spike AND recover. Insta-Dair spiking on ledgesnap vulnerability frames is a nice plus as well. However, unless you're sent high up by the enemy, Dairing on stage is pretty much the same thing.*

About that data.. It' s about time I made gfycats for each move and kill %s. The moveset thread will be updated accordingly, as soon as I'm finished with the BSBS vid (which I've been postponing for some time now..).

EDIT: * UNLESS we can use N/Uair during the Dair's IASA frames in order to get less landing lag and maybe a hitbox out. Needs testing, though.

 

[Camalange]

I think that the Dair buff is huge. We can now stall the Dair and still be able to edgeguard/spike AND recover. Insta-Dair spiking on ledgesnap vulnerability frames is a nice plus as well. However, unless you're sent high up by the enemy, Dairing on stage is pretty much the same thing.*

Let's do it up, but I would've preferred it to be better on stage lol as using it offstage is still a commitment, just less of one. We still can't even snap to the ledge after a Dair, so I still feel medium about it. I dunno. Would've at least liked to use those IASA frames to ledgesnap like in Brawl.

About that data.. It' s about time I made gfycats for each move and kill %s. The moveset thread will be updated accordingly, as soon as I'm finished with the BSBS vid (which I've been postponing for some time now..).

That'd be amazing! Work at your own pace, we all understand and are grateful for yours and everyone else's efforts. We're only human, after all. Excited to see your new video as well.

Personally, I wish had time to do even more as well. Looking to make and release another video in the coming weeks too.

EDIT: * UNLESS we can use N/Uair during the Dair's IASA frames in order to get less landing lag and maybe a hitbox out. Needs testing, though.

I think we can maybe get Nair out sooner. I remember trying it when testing if Dair was any better on stage.

 

[Ixisnaugus]

Landing lag on all aerials is unchanged, if that was yet to be tested. Pretty sure startup on everything is untouched, but I can re-record.

 

[Camalange]

If you don't mind, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to have a record of!

 

[Ixisnaugus]

I can make 60fps recordings and do frame by frame playback, but I don't know how to make gifs or anything of the like and have them slowed down so we can see the individual frames. If anyone else can I have no problem handing over some recordings, but until I learn you'll have to take my word ;3

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Send them to me and I'll try to work something out.

 

[Ixisnaugus]

Ok do you have skype or something? PM me your details so I can add you!

 

[Camalange]

HE DOESN'T.

;_;

 

[Ixisnaugus]

what

10whats

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Just UL them to mega or some other file sharing website? :v

 

[Ixisnaugus]

I can upload to Google Drive and then send you an email with the download links if that's fine?

 

[J.APS]

some one say....Dair? :D?
you can Dair off-stage and use ONLY the spring to go back (pretty cool, like brawl) but...if you're..TOO SLOOOW...you die
BUT! on the ground, is the same (full jump/2 jumps -> spring -> Dair "cancel") no changes here
Now, the important thing, the Dair spike got a nerf, a very small nerf (between 1-5%) but mostly like 1%
Also...now I have to buy all the others DLC's characters for the table of Dair Spike: Range Kill, there is alot to say about this attack, also..the spike itself hasn't any changes... (like in what moment the Dair acts like a spike)
Now, about the range for the kill, there exist 3 ranges:
The fake one (you can spike them, but they able to recovery and grab the edge)
The normal one (they got spiked, they can try recovery but can't go back on stage, also you can footstool them)
The instant kill (you spike them, but when they try to 2° jump/upB they die or they just cant do anything)
for example, with Mario will be like:
Fake: 18% to 24% (before patch, 17%-22%)
semi fake: 31% to 68% (from 35% you can footstool, but..you can be punish by upB and maybe get stage spiked)
Normal: 69%-78%
instant kill: 79%/80% (grounded / air)
and stuff like that

 

[Camalange]

I was waiting for the Dair master to show up.

 

[J.APS]

I was waiting for the Dair master to show up.

Aww stop it, you :B
also, this is what I mean by instant kill

 

[da K.I.D.]

http://smashboards.com/threads/luca...notes-17th-19-30.406319/page-19#post-19454998

The smash labbers datamined the patch to get patch notes

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

Wow, I started this thread and I haven't contributed at all.

That's kinda funny.

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, I've been updating it... Hilarious.

Thanks to the datamine, we now can confirm 100% the ONLY change was to Usmash. The notes don't account for IASA frames, but we have that proven as well, for a total of one nerf and one buff.

We survived through another patch.

 

[Espy Rose]

So will everyone hit with our usmash at 95% now.
;~;

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

Sorry about that Cammy, thanks for editing for me. I haven't really been good with patch changes and I guess I stopped paying attention to this thread.