Data FINAL: Confirmed 1.0.8 Patch Notes

[1MeLODuDE]

No, we weren't. Stop.

Thank you!

 

[Luig]

Wtf is iasa frames? It is good or bad for the dair?

You can recover from stage height dairs now. If only we could say the same for HA.

Also, something of note when using the max launch speed for kb testing, pre 1.0.6 back throw kb was 26 at base. at 300% with rage it was 106 mph. after 1.0.6 it was still 26 base and 106 300%, even though you could tell the difference pre patch and after patch. in 1.0.8 it still says 26 and 106. So I took it one step further at 300% and made a custom sonic with +200 attack. It still showed 106 mph, even though had much more kb. I'm just gonna throw this out here because it seems very odd.

 

[Gregory2590]

tested from the center of final destination

fthrow didn't kill mario until 177

uthrow doesn't kill until 180-185

idk what the killing potential was before patch

 

[Camalange]

I'm hoping to see hard data.

If Sonic did change, it's all very negligble.

Usmash and Bthrow all still kill around the same percent. Uthrow > Uair and Uthrow > Spring > Uair all combo, juggle, or kill as they used to in their general percents. Dair didn't seem much different to me personally as the autocancel distance is exactly the same, so if anything, maybe offstage it's easier to jump out of a Dair or something but still very minor.

Spinshot, ISDJ, and Spring Warp are all still in.

Sonic is fundamentally exactly the same. Whatever minor buffs or nerfs we did get... They're minor. I'm hoping we can learn exactly what is different if that's the case, but whatever the results are I'm not worried.

Sonic still guchi.

EDIT: LMAO did pausing in training mode always make Smashville platforms just... Stop moving? I feel like this never happened to me before...

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Thats the % they would normally start killing at pre update. Imo the only confirmed change which would be a buff for us is the Dair IASA frames.

Possible changes that i think are plausible are the possible small Upsmash nerf and maybe the startup frames of up B being speed up slightly which is why Up B feels different.(Though this one could be placebo)

EDIT: this is when i wish we had a way to look at frame data easier

 

[Luig]

The reason why Nintendo doesn't give out patch notes:

You can no longer slide off platforms with special moves.
Yoshi mains be like, NUUUUUUUUUUU and send hate letters to nintendo.
Also Link mains lose edge spin attack. I don't main him, but I know he got nerfed harder then we did 1.0.6.
The slide off platforms thing doesn't affect sonic, as none of his specials have been able to slide off platform as far as I know. (Not counting Spins.)

But we should all be thankful that we didn't get hit as hard with the nerf stick as we did last time.

EDIT: LMAO did pausing in training mode always make Smashville platforms just... Stop moving? I feel like this never happened to me before...

Pausing in training mode has always made any stage elements stop functioning. It's the exact reason the nabbit glitch was a thing.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Well we actually could and still can cancel homing attacks landing lag by sliding off a platform. Same thing with ZSS and her down B and Neutral B still being able to edge cancel.

 

[Luig]

Well we actually could and still can cancel homing attacks landing lag by sliding off a platform. Same thing with ZSS and her down B and Neutral B still being able to edge cancel.

Huh, I just know that spin attack and egg throw and some others can't go off platforms anymore, and pikachu mains are saying qac is different now. ESAM confirmed it. I'm not sure exactly what they did to edge cancelling. It's like nintendo is trying to kill ATs. It started with DACUS...

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Well all of sonic's ATs are still intact so im not upset

 

[Camalange]

Pausing in training mode has always made any stage elements stop functioning. It's the exact reason the nabbit glitch was a thing.

So bizarre that I never came across this before. Huh.

 

[TwicH]

Well you guys can believe whatever you want to believe. I'm done posting here...

 

[Mizzy Moe]

i came hoping to see actual changes and still yet to see concrete true changes but anyways for those that do read this sonics still fine in rackin damage and getting the kill quickly so no need to worry about the patch really

 

[Seagull Joe]

Wtf is iasa frames? It is good or bad for the dair?

Good. It means we act after using it quicker.

Huh, I just know that spin attack and egg throw and some others can't go off platforms anymore, and pikachu mains are saying qac is different now. ESAM confirmed it. I'm not sure exactly what they did to edge cancelling. It's like nintendo is trying to kill ATs. It started with DACUS...

Good. ****

Side note: BSD does 2 more percent now. A full BSD to Nair does 24% whereas before it did 22%. Slight buff.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Dair didn't seem much different to me personally as the autocancel distance is exactly the same, so if anything, maybe offstage it's easier to jump out of a Dair or something but still very minor.

Not that minor. Dair offstage is a safer option now, since it doesn't necessarily put us in a bad spot in case we miss an edgeguard with it.

Also, when trying to use the Spin -> footstool -> Dair setups to spike, the double jump+Dair that usually occurs when missing the footstool won't automatically mean a selfdestruct now. And getting the setup right makes the second footstool (after the Dair) even easier, because we can act out of the move so much quickier than our opponents can out of the meteor, as someone already stated earlier.

 

[1MeLODuDE]

yes, dair off stage is safer now everybody. confirmed

 

[Camalange]

Well, that works then. I'd still like to see the frame evidence but... It was never an issue for me before as it never stopped me from Dairing offstage, but I'll take it. Just didn't feel that different when I was messing with it, especially since the autocancel distance and end lag are the same.

 

[jaimex2]

Here is a list of confirmed changes that I will update over time:

-Dair has more IASA frames.
-Up smash kos about 10% later.
-Up throw barely has more kb.(barely does anything.)

Things that need more investigation:

- f throw and back throw have less kb
-check utilt?

f throw has never koed mario at 160%. b throw though depends on where you are.

B throw was identical in my tests.
Fwd was a little weaker, I couldn't get the exact number I did in 1.0.7 by 2%

Link to my spreadsheet if anyone is interested

 

[Camalange]

Usmash nerf is highly likely the more I play.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Spoiler: ffs goddammit people

If anyone still thinks that this is a pre-patch thing, I'll literally record footage from my 3DS in order to prove them wrong:

http://gfycat.com/ZanyArtisticCanary

Spoiler

inb4nerf

 

[Luig]

Thank you for the footage, all doubts should be gone now.

 

[Jords2Good]

So far, sonic still feels the same for me, the minor nerfs hasn't really effects me at all and up smash is not really my main kil move although it's good for catching air dodges and some ledge get ups.
Using dair at the edge might make it easier to stage spike or dair spike.

I just wonder why haven't the stupid spin dash bugs haven't been fixed yet. Lol

 

[ROOOOY!]

Confirmed is confirmed.










to mean **** all

 

[Moises301]

So did F smash really get a buff?

 

[Camalange]

Updating the OP with confirmed, highly likely, and speculative patch notes.

Hopefully we can start debunking or validating more of these claims.

B throw was identical in my tests.
Fwd was a little weaker, I couldn't get the exact number I did in 1.0.7 by 2%

Link to my spreadsheet if anyone is interested

I keep hearing that CPUs can DI in training mode now? It seems like though that you were able to get consistent percents for these, so I'm going to go with your data for now.

 

[Luig]

It's really weird, sometimes they will di and kill themselves earlier, and sometimes they will di to help themselves live. Sometimes they would di sonic's forward throw back, which doesn't really help them live. Also, jaimex2's spreadsheet says now f throw kos 2% earlier.

 

[Camalange]

It's really weird, sometimes they will di and kill themselves earlier, and sometimes they will di to help themselves live. Sometimes they would di sonic's forward throw back, which doesn't really help them live. Also, jaimex2's spreadsheet says now f throw kos 2% earlier.

I noticed earlier in the thread after doing another read through that he was using CPUs said to Human, so the weird DI thing shouldn't be an issue. Will be going with his data.

Thanks for all your work, everyone.

EDIT: @ jaimex2 - Noticed that you said Fthrow kills earlier but didn't mark it with color like you did the others. Was leaving out the color a mistake or is the number change a typo?

 

[Luig]

For testing purposes, HA 1.0.8 kos mario from the center of FD with no di at 160%. It's kos him off the top at 161%. Some more ko percents(some are approximate):
Dtilt at approximately 330%
Utilt at 168%
Ftilt at 191%
Dsmash front at 178%
Dsmash back at 141%
Nair at 174%
Dair at 200%
Dthrow at about 640%(weakest semi spike in game?)
Spring at 389%
Here's some more 1.0.8 info for you to compare against.

 

[cerealkiller]

For testing purposes, HA 1.0.8 kos mario from the center of FD with no di at 160%. It's kos him off the top at 161%. Some more ko percents(some are approximate):
Dtilt at approximately 330%
Utilt at 168%

Question: given the diagonal trajectory of HA, does it matter the position on the stage for KOs?

 

[Luig]

Not as much as other attacks, as you can see there is only a 1% difference.

 

[cerealkiller]

Sorry, I thought you said from the top of a platform...My bad.

 

[Yunior597]

You guys cant even know what is confirmed?

Post a final list...

 

[Camalange]

You guys cant even know what is confirmed?

Post a final list...

Sorry that our methods aren't meeting your standards.

The OP is in fact updated with what is confirmed and we're obviously in the processes of debunking and trying to learn what we can. This process takes a long time for any board, so either help or wait. Don't chew out people for doing Nintendo's work when you aren't even adding to the cause. Not our fault Nintendo doesn't provide us with patch notes.

 

[Yunior597]

It wasnt updated when i checked.

 

[Camalange]

It was last updated around noon...

 

[Luig]

I think the dair may be easier to spike with. Just hear me out, don't kill me for saying may. I have been testing for a while and I have been getting dair spikes much more consistently. if you look at Sonic Orochi's Gif, you'll see that that was a pretty weird position for CF to get spiked. From more testing, it seems as if the spike window is active for longer, but this could just be placebo or me sucking before.

 

[Camalange]

He didn't spike him in that gif though…

Also, I'm a little skeptical of the Uthrow percents in that Google doc, because myself and Joe have had no problems doing things out of Uthrow as we would pre-patch.

Also waiting for an answer about that Fthrow data.

 

[Luig]

In the second part he does, just look at the angle indicator.

 

[Camalange]

In the second part he does, just look at the angle indicator.

I mean that he put a different number but didn't change the color, so I don't know if the mistake lies in the forgetting to color it or if the number didn't actually change and it's a typo.

 

[Luig]

Uh.... I was talking about the gif.

 

[Camalange]

Uh.... I was talking about the gif.

Oh, I was definitely confused by what you meant. Didn't realize the gif had two different Dairs. Assumed it was a loop.

I don't notice a real difference though.