Fighting Donkey Kong.

[Flamazot1]

This is actually a problem I've had since Melee. I think I'm a fairly competent Link player. I can put up a good fight against most characters, but I'm completely hopeless against DK players. I don't think I've ever won a match against a good DK player. I'm no good at predicting what they're going to do, they have good knockback on their attacks, and they're not all that slow.

Does anyone have some general tips for fighting DK? Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

 

[LinkSpecialist]

Having a good projectile game will help you quite a bit. Seeing as how you have the advantage of making him come to you, it should be possible to keep racking in damage from a distance. And Z-air is your best friend. As long as you know how to pace yourself, Z-air should eat away at his percentage without being in harm's way. Make your backing away as you use it otherwise you'll land within range of a counter attack. coming in from the air bares a good chance of attack, but don't make a habit of it, or else you'll be shieldgrabbed quite a bit. More likely than not he'll use bair as he closes in on you (which doesn't have much lag) so be ready to go on the defensive and shield grab any aerial attempts he makes.

This should help you get started but otherwise you'll have your lessons beaten into you. Good luck.

P.S. What kind of tactics do you use? I might be able to help out a bit more knowing what works or not.

 

[Flamazot1]

Having a good projectile game will help you quite a bit. Seeing as how you have the advantage of making him come to you, it should be possible to keep racking in damage from a distance. And Z-air is your best friend. As long as you know how to pace yourself, Z-air should eat away at his percentage without being in harm's way. Make your backing away as you use it otherwise you'll land within range of a counter attack. coming in from the air bares a good chance of attack, but don't make a habit of it, or else you'll be shieldgrabbed quite a bit. More likely than not he'll use bair as he closes in on you (which doesn't have much lag) so be ready to go on the defensive and shield grab any aerial attempts he makes.

This should help you get started but otherwise you'll have your lessons beaten into you. Good luck.

P.S. What kind of tactics do you use? I might be able to help out a bit more knowing what works or not.

My tactics, eh?

Well, I've been told I'm pretty good with Link's projectiles, but I don't use them enough. I really only use them to rack up a little extra damage before I approach. Though, apparently my approach is very predictable. It's a bad habit, but I just charge in with the dash attack quite a lot, and my other approach is usually a short hopped bair/fair.

To be honest, I don't use Link's Z-air as much as I should. It's mostly because I'm used to fighting smaller characters, and I have trouble hitting them with it. It's just made me forget about it, basically. I've watched plenty of Link videos though, and I know it's a good move so I think I should try and get more use out of it.

The biggest problem in my game is KOing. I can usually rack up damage fine, but once it comes to getting the final blow, I keep screwing up. It's especially annoying against someone like DK who is heavy, and needs a good hit to get knocked off.

Well, I hope this gives you a decent idea of my tactics. I'd have much preferred to show you a video, or even play against you, but I sent my Wii and Brawl disc to Nintendo the other day to fix a disc read problem I was having.

 

[leonbird]

You gotta use more of Link's projectiles! link has an awesome inventory of weapons. its not just something to rack up damage but as the link specialist stated, it forces most opponents to move to you. also you gotta try to figure out and keep in mind his style of play. these are some of the things i look for while im playing
(for my typing sake, i'll just list the player as "he" cause of s/he and whatnot -_- ) anyways

1 does he like shielding alot?
- Use those grabs
2 does he charge in (like you) more than often?
- if he's THAT predictable, jump + downA and let HIM run into your "best friend"
3 does he dodge to much?
- Charge = my new best friend
- also note that you can run + upB quite quickly and if he dodge quite often, link's spin will hit for sure may not be as strong but it will hit probably sending him for a ledge guard
4 when you go for a ledge guard kill does he dodge at the moment you're in attack range?
- Pause! .... then attack
- stall with a DownA, by the time he comes out, he'll get hit
5 does he love ariel game or ground?
- use those projectiles and up smash
6 what's his favorite kill move and/or is there a move he uses excessively?

use link's full inventory of awesome weapons. thats why they're there! putting pressure on a melee character such as DK can and will force him to move away from you (causing more rack up damage using those projectiles) or he'll rush into (most likely) a dash attack WHICH then you can let him run into either a ariel DownA or a quick smash/UpB

you'll be amazed what a simple arrow can do to the minds of players >=) but really, you HAVE to learn to adapt and search for the weaknesses in the player's style. you wont win much if you're the player, one step behind

 

[Flamazot1]

Well, like I said, I've been told I am pretty good at using the projectiles, I just choose not to. From now on, I'll try and use them more. I usually am decent at figuring out player's weaknesses, but there's just something about DK that gets me.

Thanks for typing all that out, I appreciate it. It should help me out.

 

[LinkSpecialist]

My tactics, eh?

Well, I've been told I'm pretty good with Link's projectiles, but I don't use them enough. I really only use them to rack up a little extra damage before I approach. Though, apparently my approach is very predictable. It's a bad habit, but I just charge in with the dash attack quite a lot, and my other approach is usually a short hopped bair/fair.

It's good that you mix up your approach, but it'll take more than that to misguide your opponent. Stay alert of any and all strategies your opponent may be catching on to. The dash attack really isn't meant for approaching as much as it is for catching anyone off-guard. Try not to use it too much as it does leave you open if shielded.

To be honest, I don't use Link's Z-air as much as I should. It's mostly because I'm used to fighting smaller characters, and I have trouble hitting them with it. It's just made me forget about it, basically. I've watched plenty of Link videos though, and I know it's a good move so I think I should try and get more use out of it.

Every match-up for every fight is different. Every character you fight needs different tactics. Sadly there's no general style of play that fairs great against all characters, but that's what grand about Link. He just has so many options at his fingertips. You never know what he came do if done right.

The biggest problem in my game is KOing. I can usually rack up damage fine, but once it comes to getting the final blow, I keep screwing up. It's especially annoying against someone like DK who is heavy, and needs a good hit to get knocked off.

This is an issue with mentality and going for the kill. When you see your opponent at a certain percent you think to yourself now is time for the go for it, no? Well, it can be hard to do so, because now your mind isn't set on causing damage anymore, it's just thinking getting the KO. With that, your playstyle tends to change as well. That can be a bit of a problem, especially if it means getting careless.

Well, I hope this gives you a decent idea of my tactics. I'd have much preferred to show you a video, or even play against you, but I sent my Wii and Brawl disc to Nintendo the other day to fix a disc read problem I was having.

That's a bummer. I'll see if Oddler can help me with uploading any videos, but first I have to send him a replay. I can't thank the guy enough for his help.

In any case, it helps if you look into your opponent's weaknesses as well. Take a look at what advantage or disadvantages he may have and use it in battle as it can you understand who your up against better.

One more question: Is it getting your opponent offstage the hard part, or edgeguarding?

 

[Mi4Slayer]

Quick tips Z-air is your best friends , also bombs and bomrang and sex kick, backward up-tilts

 

[Minish Blade]

^Yes. The projectiles are more useful against big and heavy chars.

 

[Mith_]

Projectiles.
His hitboxes (except down B) are also hurt boxes, if he whiffs a smash then punish with your sword.
Zair > his Bair

 

[Flamazot1]

One more question: Is it getting your opponent offstage the hard part, or edgeguarding?

Getting them offstage. I think I'm actually pretty good at edgeguarding.

I took a good look at the rest of your post, and it's really a big help. As are all the posts in this thread. Hopefully I can make good use of all the advice you guys have given me.

 

[Minwu]

DK can Ftilt your boomerangs and arrows and not take damage, but you can still follow up an SHed bomb throw with an AC. Zair and Ftilt are good defensive options against DK. When attempting a shield grab, keep in mind that DK can Bair twice after an SH before landing. If the DK player is proficient at dodging Link's earlier KO moves then just camp until you can kill with a bomb or ftilt. DK's shield can't cover his body well so you can attempt a shield poke by hitting with the tip of your hitboxes.


edit: Don't play on Green Greens.

 

[LinkSpecialist]

Getting them offstage. I think I'm actually pretty good at edgeguarding.

I took a good look at the rest of your post, and it's really a big help. As are all the posts in this thread. Hopefully I can make good use of all the advice you guys have given me.

Well, the best way set up for a KO is cornering him, or at least use your projectiles as a means of luring him where you want to. Remember, He has to come to you, regardless of his damage. If he starts to stray away from you attacks, just keep keep hitting him with projectile after projectile. Eventually It'll be up to the point where his damage is high enough where quick attacks will start to send him a bit far, if only a little farther than normal. As long as you stay away from harm's way, you should be fine against him. Only come in when you think you'll have a good chance of striking a hit, even if it isn't a death blow, any attack just adds to his woos.

Remember, your items are a means of setting up where he goes, causing damage is just a bonus

I'll write more later, right now I'm a bit tired...

 

[Ray_Kalm]

We're actually discussing Donkey Kong right now.

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=66898&page=2

You may ask questions about the match-up there, if you'd like.

 

[Flamazot1]

We're actually discussing Donkey Kong right now.

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=66898&page=2

You may ask questions about the match-up there, if you'd like.

I've received a couple of PMs telling me to go to that site for Link discussion, as it's more active. I'll check it out, and maybe register.

 

[Onomanic]

Spam Zair a lot. Like, that's your best option if anything. Watch out for Bair. That move leads into some amazing combos lol

 

[Deva]

1 move, zair.

That's really all you need. DK doesnt have a way to really get through it. I just beat CBK in a $10 mm last week. There was almost nothing he could do to approach me lol.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Zair is godly.

 

[chris the brawler]

i would like to say "use Zair," but it seems like that would be unessecary

 

[Bandit_Kieth]

indeed, and IF he manages to get close to you, avoid the Bairs and his cargo throw stage spike or whatever it is lol

 

[Tektite]

i would like to say "use Zair," but it seems like that would be unessecary

Why? Zair is especially useful against the big characters. Retreating Zair is even better agaisnt the strong aggresive players to reck their game strategy.

 

[JaggerG]

He meant because the previous couple posts already said it.

You say you're getting too predictable in your approaches?
-I just found out about the dash-pivot cancel. Link can do it too, right? I haven't really tried it, but it sounds like it could be really useful to fake out your opponent like this.
-A lot of times, like every couple matches I mind-game my opponents into thinking I'm gonna use my second f-smash, then I just do another f-smash and they run right into it assuming I left myself open.
-Learn to dash-attack cancel. If their shield is dropping, it's probably gonna hit them. It's at least gonna push them back if they're shielding. Just...don't do it often, because it does leave you pretty open if they do block it.
-You're probably just attacking at the same moment every time. If you're really looking to use a strong attack to approach, I suggest running at them, then stopping and f-tilting. They're gonna see you attacking and may think they just blocked your dash attack, then brain-fart and get smacked by the tilt.


The best option in general, though, is to Z-air or grab, like everyone else has been saying. Link may be able to rack up damage pretty fast and get early kills, but if the hits just don't connect, then you're gonna get smacked up quite a bit. Be patient, don't go into all-out smash mode, because they're gonna expect it for sure. Minimize your openness, so they can never guess them. Let THEM open themselves for attacks. Try to read their movements and find visual cues, and get faster at recognizing them.

 

[Deva]

If you're approaching with Link in general, you're probably doing something wrong =P.

 

[chris the brawler]

you know what else you that works? when donkey kong is trying to recover with his extremely good sideways recovery, JUMP ON HIS FREAKING HEAD AND WATCH HIM FALL!!!! i do it all the time XD so fun.

you main......... pichu?

 

[Deva]

Yeah, didnt you know Pichu is in Brawl? He's got a new name is all; he's called Link in this game. He's just as bad though =P.

 

[chris the brawler]

Yeah, didnt you know Pichu is in Brawl? He's got a new name is all; he's called Link in this game. He's just as bad though =P.

ah, that makes sense... i guess.... um, yeah.

 

[ShadowCosmos]

Yeah, didnt you know Pichu is in Brawl? He's got a new name is all; he's called Link in this game. He's just as bad though =P.

Rofl, but pichu had a better recovery.

you know what else you that works? when donkey kong is trying to recover with his extremely good sideways recovery, JUMP ON HIS FREAKING HEAD AND WATCH HIM FALL!!!! i do it all the time XD so fun.

You can't footstool someone during an animation. You'll just get launched extra high and nothing will happen to them. You could possibly Ledge Bomb, or Bomb plant, or hang on the edge with your tether if you want to try and cancel out DK's ^B. I dunno, if he's using his ^B to get back from a decent distance away, I'd just Dair him >.>

 

[chris the brawler]

who said anything about footstooling him during an animation?

 

[Deva]

you did =P

you know what else you that works? when donkey kong is trying to recover with his extremely good sideways recovery, JUMP ON HIS FREAKING HEAD AND WATCH HIM FALL!!!! i do it all the time XD so fun.

 

[chris the brawler]

you did =P

oi oi oi! i said "while he's trying to recover" not "while he is using ^B" argh...
im a pirate!!!

 

[ShadowCosmos]

In that case DK could probably just Uair you while you tried to Footstool him. That stuff packs a punch.

 

[chris the brawler]

well, depending on the situation it might kill him to do that. it's hard to predict what the Link will do so the DK will probobly think he's going to use nair or something

 

[KiraNumber7]

DKs monkey arms clash with everythin and he is hard to edge hog try a forward smash to kill and if u havent heard it enough already, use those projectiles if spaming is needed then spam its what links good at =)

 

[BRLNK88]

Link can pretty much beat the crap outta DK with some good spacing. Once DK closes in, he can make life super difficult.
I have a friend who mains DK and I fought him with my Link recently. I was doing great when I kept my distance and annoyed the crap out of him with zair and projectiles, but then he got me trapped on the edge, and I just could NOT GET BACK ON THE STAGE, and it ended with a cargo spike. DK is just so quick in the air and on the ground for such a large and heavy character, and his fsmash and giant punch can just catch you off guard.

 

[Chaos Reign]

Link can pretty much beat the crap outta DK with some good spacing. Once DK closes in, he can make life super difficult.
I have a friend who mains DK and I fought him with my Link recently. I was doing great when I kept my distance and annoyed the crap out of him with zair and projectiles, but then he got me trapped on the edge, and I just could NOT GET BACK ON THE STAGE, and it ended with a cargo spike. DK is just so quick in the air and on the ground for such a large and heavy character, and his fsmash and giant punch can just catch you off guard.

This and pretty much everyone else. In short, try to stay away as much as possible and don't think that you can beat DK up close. It doesn't work to well... Oh and zair is a very good friend. Like "best friend" status lol. When using it, try to retreat using craq walk more often than not, because if you try to follow it up with a throw or pivot slide into a ftilt of something, your opponent will most likely shield and then grab you.

Well sorry that wasn't exactly a "in short" kind of response lol. But I hope everybody's advice helps you.

 

[Flamazot1]

Ah. well thanks a lot guys. All of you. I wasn't expecting so many replies, but they've all really helped.

My game against DK isn't so bad now.