Fighting arrow spam, period--the heck?

[Master Knight DH]

Well, I made a video about it. Granted, it's online, but it was a team battle where you'd expect it to not be a problem.

I have heard quite a few of the theories against talk about it being overpowered. But they're pretty much just that, theories.

First is the one where you can just use characters who can reflect or absorb. But that amounts to 9 characters, including Pit himself. You know the arrow spam abuser can just learn the movement of these 9 characters. It's not like Pit is a joke close-range. Really, that Zelda got me up to 50% without taking a single point of damage--but then I got to promptly kicking her butt and before she could get me up to 100% I KOed her getting her up to--93%? NINETY-THREE PERCENT?!?!? That's around her listed weight, and her Falling Speed is low as well. You're telling me Pit has a kill move. And it's a single-strike attack too.

And not to mention it's not infallible, certainly not with Zelda. That Zelda bounced my first arrow back at me--then I shot her three times in a row. The Zelda wasn't even distracted by the Ike on my side, instead going after me.

Which brings me to the next thing: approaching. That doesn't work very well. Pit is in a good defense position if he's arrow spamming. Roll in his face and he's got quite a few options. You do not attack people who have a surplus without a good reason. Ever. Pit has a surplus when he has you under his strings with an arrow spam.

What? You can just jump over the arrows and approach from above? Oh no, you discovered that the arrows won't reach you well enough if you're above me. Oh woe is me, whatever shall I do? Oh I know. I'll just react. I am in a defensive position for goodness sake.

Now maybe it's not broken like I may be making it sound out to be, but it sure is an overpowered psychological weapon. How the heck are people able to fight it with far more than the speedy Meta Knight, it makes no sense.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Well, you can roll dodge toward Pit and jump toward Pit to approach with an aerial when you are in a roll dodge distance from Pit. You can jump period and air dodge between the jumping intervals. You can roll dodge and attack when you are close enough.

His spam really isn't that powerful. It's predictable and it doesn't do much damage in the long run if they are just spamming arrows and not looping them or anything.

 

[Master Knight DH]

You do realize that if I'm arrow spamming I can just as easily keep an eye on my opponent in case (s)he tries an approach, right?

...wait. Isn't Pit's neutral air attack a multi-hit? So if you do jump, it's likely he can get you with that even if you air dodge.

The spam doesn't even have to be powerful to be overpowered. It just has to keep opponents stuck unable to attack Pit effectively, to the point where Pit can just say "no, no, no, you don't get to slap me, I get to slap you." And it's made worse by the point that if you do get to slap him, he is still good at surviving for a while so it doesn't do that much to help either. In fact, the main problem is the mere limited amount, if not lack, of hope for dealing profitable damage, a similar reason to why Grit in Advance Wars, who comes from the same mold, is broken despite his glaring weakness: you can't do profitable damage to his force, he just blocks you off from his expensive stuff with Infantry that survive attacks.

Personally, I understand Pit's an archer so he should be reasonably good with arrows, but he should at least not be able to cause early flinching.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

You do realize that if I'm arrow spamming I can just as easily keep an eye on my opponent in case (s)he tries an approach, right?

...wait. Isn't Pit's neutral air attack a multi-hit? So if you do jump, it's likely he can get you with that even if you air dodge.

The spam doesn't even have to be powerful to be overpowered. It just has to keep opponents stuck unable to attack Pit effectively, to the point where Pit can just say "no, no, no, you don't get to slap me, I get to slap you." And it's made worse by the point that if you do get to slap him, he is still good at surviving for a while so it doesn't do that much to help either. In fact, the main problem is the mere limited amount, if not lack, of hope for dealing profitable damage, a similar reason to why Grit in Advance Wars, who comes from the same mold, is broken despite his glaring weakness: you can't do profitable damage to his force, he just blocks you off from his expensive stuff with Infantry that survive attacks.

Personally, I understand Pit's an archer so he should be reasonably good with arrows, but he should at least not be able to cause early flinching.

Wow... You can still approaching him with all my approach tactics if you play it smart. You can float away from him if you see him doing a Neutral Aerial and then you can land and approach. You'll be too close to him for him to be able to effectively Arrow Spam. Also, I meant aerial dodge to get past the arrows then use an aerial attack when you get close enough.

 

[Natch]

It's been 20 years since Pit has been in a game. He's had 20 ****ing years to train.

But his balls have yet to drop. Such a paradox.

 

[Master Knight DH]

Yeah, but that's the thing: you have to keep the Pit player outsmarted. And the problem is especially bad toward characters like ROB.

....actually, if Pit's arrows get revamped, here's what I'd like to see: arrow getting boosts based on Pit's actions (starting off nerfed at least to not cause any early flinching from what we have, of course). Kind of like in Kid Icarus, believe it or not. It would reward people who don't arrow spam and in fact use skilled movement.

 

[Coffee™]

Your video doesn't mean much. It was online for one and two, your opponents weren't very good. If Pit's Arrows were as dominating as you say then we would be seeing Pit ruling the tiers and the tournies, obviously he is not simply because they aren't overpowering. I agree with you in that they can really put a stop to certain approaches and they are a nice psychological weapon but spamming them will only get you punished.

Plain and simple, your entire post is a gross overestimate of Pit's capabilities,

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Yeah, but that's the thing: you have to keep the Pit player outsmarted. And the problem is especially bad toward characters like ROB.

....actually, if Pit's arrows get revamped, here's what I'd like to see: arrow getting boosts based on Pit's actions (starting off nerfed at least to not cause any early flinching from what we have, of course). Kind of like in Kid Icarus, believe it or not. It would reward people who don't arrow spam and in fact use skilled movement.

What are you talking about?!?

You don't need to outsmart someone to approach them if you are dodging solidly (roll dodging is fairly solid in dodging. So is aerial dodge)
Also, ROB's Side B reflects Pit's arrows when you tilt it the spin forward so I don't see how it is bad toward ROB.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Arrow spam doesnt seem as bad as Falco's Blaster. Besides, the arrows can just be avoided by Rolling towards Pit in a sequence, and sidestepping. If you ask me, the Arrow spam is one of the easier spams to avoid.

 

[Undrdog]

Powershielding is the answer to all problems. Except online. But nobody of any merit take Wifi matches seriously anyway. =P

 

[Rogue Pit]

The spam doesn't even have to be powerful to be overpowered.

Just seemed cool to point this out

Powershielding is the answer to all problems. Except online. But nobody of any merit take Wifi matches seriously anyway. =P

From Ryos4

Umm im probably one of the better online pit players. I did sorta win the online tournament hosted by corrupt or w/e his name is.

 

[Undrdog]

Yeah but he made sure to say "online players". If there wasn't anything drastically different about it he wouldn't've had to say that. ^_^

 

[Master Knight DH]

Your video doesn't mean much. It was online for one and two, your opponents weren't very good. If Pit's Arrows were as dominating as you say then we would be seeing Pit ruling the tiers and the tournies, obviously he is not simply because they aren't overpowering. I agree with you in that they can really put a stop to certain approaches and they are a nice psychological weapon but spamming them will only get you punished.

Plain and simple, your entire post is a gross overestimate of Pit's capabilities,

Except the video was also a team battle. That sneak attack the Zelda pulled on me would have been thwarted right away in a 1-on-1. And that's just elitist talk for you to say that the Zelda was trash.

There are few Pits to begin with, and I can be sure most of them are being surprised by Meta Knight or Game & Watch....wait a minute. Both of them are very light, they're supposed to have points to have them wreck havoc if used right or if they get the drop on spammers, including arrow spammers. Maybe that's why they get more than their share of wins.

You don't need to outsmart someone to approach them if you are dodging solidly (roll dodging is fairly solid in dodging. So is aerial dodge)
Also, ROB's Side B reflects Pit's arrows when you tilt it the spin forward so I don't see how it is bad toward ROB.

Again, rolling doesn't work, it just earns you any number of options. Here's a good example of one: repeated jabbing. You get caught in the barrage of hits, and before you realize what had happened, you're flying from a follow up forward smash. Air dodging doesn't help either. It doesn't keep you invincible forever and when you come out you will likely get hit.

And if ROB gets off a side B, even if it does reflect Pit's arrows like you say, he just opens himself up to an attack. And he's not fast enough to prevent Pit from spacing close enough to force him into using it within range of a dash attack.

Arrow spam doesnt seem as bad as Falco's Blaster. Besides, the arrows can just be avoided by Rolling towards Pit in a sequence, and sidestepping. If you ask me, the Arrow spam is one of the easier spams to avoid.

That's just ridiculous. If you say Pikachu's Thunder spam isn't one of the easier spams to avoid, which I wouldn't doubt you would claim, you would have to be lying somewhere along the line. Heck, the arrow spam is on the same level as Falco's blaster spam or worse. At least Falco's blaster just shoots straight and he can't jump again to make it fire up at all. Heck, Meta Knight's tornado....oh, come on. You really want to attack Meta Knight close range short of catching an opening? How can you claim Pit's arrow spam is easy to avoid or even beat?

 

[Admiral Pit]

MKDH, you realize that you can't sidestep faster than how fast a Falco can shoot his blaster. Against Pit's arrows, you can sidestep them at a sequence, since the rate-of-fire of arrows are just about right. Falco shoots faster and is somewhat harder to avoid, in certain situations, though this doesnt mean underestimate Pit's arrows, and I said nothing about Pika... yet.

 

[CorruptFate]

What are you talking about?!?

You don't need to outsmart someone to approach them if you are dodging solidly (roll dodging is fairly solid in dodging. So is aerial dodge)
Also, ROB's Side B reflects Pit's arrows when you tilt it the spin forward so I don't see how it is bad toward ROB.

Rob's reflector is crap and a half he might he would be happier with out one. (for the most part I have gotten a few nice reflects against A samus charge shot) What Rob should be doing against arrows is using Fair, as its fast and can smash the arrows away.

Here is how it works, Pit has arrows, and unless your playing online they arn't the most amazing thing out there you can see them comming and ARN'T HARD TO AVOID OR BLOCK. Yes it forces players to approch you how you want them to, as for the damage behind it all its not the best. Any move can be spamed and you said somthing about that being bad, falco can spam, fox can spam, and so can anyone. People said how to avoid them and from what I read you want them to be different or weaker some how, now unless your going to hack your wii, or get people to ban Pit over MK this is how things are going to be so rather then saying, change them understand that people said how to avoid them. I think we would know as this is what people do in match we play, power shield, side step, roll, just avoid, and attack the arrows.

 

[Coffee™]

Except the video was also a team battle. That sneak attack the Zelda pulled on me would have been thwarted right away in a 1-on-1. And that's just elitist talk for you to say that the Zelda was trash.

There are few Pits to begin with, and I can be sure most of them are being surprised by Meta Knight or Game & Watch....wait a minute. Both of them are very light, they're supposed to have points to have them wreck havoc if used right or if they get the drop on spammers, including arrow spammers. Maybe that's why they get more than their share of wins.

The team battle doesn't make much of a difference. You can still tell a good player from an average player in a team battle and the players (not talking only about Zelda) in that match were all average or below average. There's nothing elitist about saying that, as I no way referred to myself as being better than anyone.

Also I'm not even sure what you're getting at with reference to Metaknight and Game & Watch or they're being few Pits, I never mentioned and I don't really see what they have to do with my post.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Rob's reflector is crap and a half he might he would be happier with out one. (for the most part I have gotten a few nice reflects against A samus charge shot) What Rob should be doing against arrows is using Fair, as its fast and can smash the arrows away.

Here is how it works, Pit has arrows, and unless your playing online they arn't the most amazing thing out there you can see them comming and ARN'T HARD TO AVOID OR BLOCK. Yes it forces players to approch you how you want them to, as for the damage behind it all its not the best. Any move can be spamed and you said somthing about that being bad, falco can spam, fox can spam, and so can anyone. People said how to avoid them and from what I read you want them to be different or weaker some how, now unless your going to hack your wii, or get people to ban Pit over MK this is how things are going to be so rather then saying, change them understand that people said how to avoid them. I think we would know as this is what people do in match we play, power shield, side step, roll, just avoid, and attack the arrows.

K... I have this ROB friend that can predict when I am going to shoot an arrow so he always reflects with his Side-B. I thought that it could have been an answer to arrow spam. I guess not...

To Master Knight DH:
If your just going to bounce back all the good suggestions we are giving you, why did you make this thread? We are trying to do a favor to you by giving you some tips on how to get past something that we use as our main characters.

 

[Alopex]

It's like the OP is the first person ever to complain about arrow spam...


Let's get serious, here.

If you want to know how to best fight the arrow spam, go to a tournament and try arrow spamming someone.
Guaranteed that they'll overcome your arrow spam with ease and then you'll learn how its done.

 

[CorruptFate]

K... I have this ROB friend that can predict when I am going to shoot an arrow so he always reflects with his Side-B. I thought that it could have been an answer to arrow spam. I guess not...

To Master Knight DH:
If your just going to bounce back all the good suggestions we are giving you, why did you make this thread? We are trying to do a favor to you by giving you some tips on how to get past something that we use as our main characters.

Robs reflector has a very small hit box and you can control your arrows, so if he does try his >B just hit him it the head or any part his arms arn't hitting.

 

[Ussi]

You know team attack is off....they put it on so your teammate can't be shielding you while you spam.

 

[Doctor X]

Powershield, run, powershield, run, etc. This works against all projectile spam. Well, maybe not Snake's grenades or missile launcher, but most projectiles.