Farore's Apprentice - The Link Match-up Thread [Current Disscusion: Koopa Bowser]

[SuSa]

I back everything Kirin said.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Take note that you can Perfect Shield his Grab Release>Ftilt if you just hold down. He'll usually do Jab combo or Ftilt out of it. You will get hit by the first jab, EIDI out of the grab then DI the first jab and you'll be fine.

 

[Xyro77]

Well, Link probably has an advantage versus Samus, CF, Ganon... Xyro said that Link had the advantage in the match-up versus Samus. After seeing a few people play Jiggs, I want to say Link has the advantage against him, but I have also seen a lot of Jiggs abuse Link in platform stages. Who else might Link actually have an advantage against?

samus can spam faster and can create some very sticky situations for link when it comes to gimping/spiking him.

but link has this thing we samus players lack.......

KOing potential!!!!!!!!

ROFL.

link also has better range on his melee attacks so yea


i think link has the advantage but honestly, i want ot play a pro link before i completly accept the match-up.

 

[3xSwords]

Take note that you can Perfect Shield his Grab Release>Ftilt if you just hold down. He'll usually do Jab combo or Ftilt out of it. You will get hit by the first jab, EIDI out of the grab then DI the first jab and you'll be fine.

How does holding down affect whether or not you PS the ftilt? I mean frame data shows that if Bowser is frame perfect you aren't escaping the ftilt.

 

[chandy]

In your analysis it seems as though Bowser smashes a lot. But in reality they don't, and when they do you should definitely be punishing with shield grab as you said. Bowser's size has it down sides but I don't see Link being able to take advantage of it due to the fact that Link won't be approaching and attempting to combo. Also saying this is one of Link's harder matchups and saying that it may be 50-50 is not true. I still stick with 60-40 Bowser.

Firstly, I realise that some Bowsers may not smash a lot which is why I said, IF you get hit. Also you can approach and combo Bowser. It's not hard, and if you want to keep him at range then he will come to you and you will be able to pull off some combos. I said that I DON'T think this is one of Link's harder match ups. As most of Link's match ups are poor but this one isn't too bad. Which is why I said 55-45 close to 50-50.

 

[Anonano]

How does holding down affect whether or not you PS the ftilt? I mean frame data shows that if Bowser is frame perfect you aren't escaping the ftilt.

Directional Influence (DI).
By holding down, you hit the ground just a few frames earlier than you would otherwise. And these few frames make the difference between being able to PS the ftilt or not.

I don't know anything at all about the Bowser matchup, except that flames can gimp you.
...lolwut.

 

[SuSa]

Take note that you can Perfect Shield his Grab Release>Ftilt if you just hold down. He'll usually do Jab combo or Ftilt out of it. You will get hit by the first jab, EIDI out of the grab then DI the first jab and you'll be fine.

EIDI does not exist. SCOTU doesn't believe it does (or last time we talked about it together) and neither do I.

You also cannot DI a grab release.

 

[Blistering Speed]

F Tilt comes out frame 10. Bowser's grab release leaves him with 20 frames of immobility and the opponent with 30 frames (unless you're DK, Ness or Lucas). Unless shield comes out frame 0, you can't PS it.

 

[Liquid Gen]

No, you can perfect shield it. Try it yourself. It's not that hard, just hold down shield. This is why ftilt out of a GR is unreliable.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I'd like to see it under a frame perfect pretence.

 

[Liquid Gen]

Try it yourself. You're not helpless.

 

[3xSwords]

Firstly, I realise that some Bowsers may not smash a lot which is why I said, IF you get hit. Also you can approach and combo Bowser. It's not hard, and if you want to keep him at range then he will come to you and you will be able to pull off some combos. I said that I DON'T think this is one of Link's harder match ups. As most of Link's match ups are poor but this one isn't too bad. Which is why I said 55-45 close to 50-50.

Bowser has one of the best defensive games in terms of options OoS. And you are telling me it's not hard to approach and combo him? All Bowser has to do is put up a shield and since Link is not quick, he's not going to get away with shield pressuring like MK does and his grab is slow and is just too risky in this matchup. And what you said about doing after getting hit by Bowser's smashes apply to all moves so it doesn't need to be explained and doesn't really strengthen your argument.

 

[Kief]

i think link has the advantage but honestly, i want ot play a pro link before i completly accept the match-up.

i respectfully disagree strongly =P. samus can out spam us big time. the only thing we have thats worth a crap here is bombs. you can tether through everything else. plus missle spam is faster then our spam. she is MUCH faster with her ground attacks. she can fsmash us inbetween our jab, along with dtilt of course. we get comboed to hell. the recovery issue makes it really easy for you to spike us. the range is actually pretty much even also (which is dumb cus we have a sword -_-). all we have is more killing power. this is one of the few matchups i know something about cus i face W!ll all the time. maybe you guys should do this one next

anyway more on topic >_>
60-40 bowser. what kirin said

EDIT: btw what happened with you maybe playing Deva? is that still gonna happen? record please

 

[Tektite]

Someone else take over the match-up thread, I've officially staying at AiB.

-Bye guys

 

[Kief]

^lol

like i said, any link main who wants to get better will eventually come to aib.

 

[bearer_of_the_triforce]

Dont be so negative about link. His only real problem is bad recovery, and thatt can be avoided if you stay in the stages center.

 

[Anonymous24]

Link has more range and i take advantage of that and in my opinion has one of the best range out of most of the characters. Also to me its mostly projectiles primary and swordsmanship secondary if you master both than your a foe to mess with believe me it works being a threat near and far thats my best advice to give.

 

[SuSa]

Someone else take over the match-up thread, I've officially staying at AiB.

-Bye guys

Once someone takes over, this thread will be closed.

If someone wants to try to keep discussion organized, please do so.... I'll try if I can.

I'll give Boozer a few more days before moving on.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Although I'm not the best Link player here, nor am I the most knowledgeable, I'd be willing to keep organized discussion going by starting a new thread.

Anyone mind me doing this at all?

 

[ndayday]

You should ask SuSa, Ryu. I'm sure he would let you run it, just send him a message saying you're interested and maybe you guys can work something out. I'm pretty sure he's looking for someone to run one, so it shouldn't really be an issue.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You should ask SuSa, Ryu. I'm sure he would let you run it, just send him a message saying you're interested and maybe you guys can work something out. I'm pretty sure he's looking for someone to run one, so it shouldn't really be an issue.

Ok, I'll send a message.

So what did happen that made half of the Link players leave?

 

[ndayday]

Their reason was that a thread they believed shouldn't of got closed did, and it just turned to a big mess. So, they moved to AiB. Of course there is a lot more to it, but that's the general story. I think I speak for a lot, if not all of the remaining Link mainers/people trying to help this board out when I say that I appreciate your offer on running a thread.

Anything further concerning the 'migration' should be asked privately, or at least not in this thread.

Oh, and if you get to do the matchup discussion, remember that we don't have to do Ike, we already covered him.

 

[Gates]

If I may be so bold, may I request that you discuss the King Dedede matchup soon? We're going to be discussing it ourselves in about 3 weeks but I'd like to get some discussion started beforehand, especially due to the issue of your old matchup thread putting it in your favor.

Thank you.

 

[Lemonwater]

I generally don't have a lot of trouble with Bowser due to his large size, slow movement, lack of long range, and fairly laggy attacks. Ike, Bowser, DK, Dedede, and Ganondorf are usually pretty easy matchups for me since I can space well and it's difficult to grab me because I am constantly dodging and short hopping neutral aerials and z-airs. I also have a nasty habit of holding bombs most of the time.

Z-air, projectiles, and fast fall neutral aerials take care of Bowser pretty well. Z-air ESPECIALLY

He is also easy to jab cancel spin attacks and smashes on (of course tilts will work too), and sometimes I can juggle him. Just be aware of his surprisingly quick and powerful tilts and directional aerials, as well as Whirling Fortresses out of shields (I hate those). It is usually a simply task to stay out of grabbing range. Don't run into his smashes. You can't afford to get hit by those. They WILL kill you.

 

[Afro Boy2000]

Ike does not beat Link 60:40 because Link can sheild grab like everything Ike has so actually Link should most likely have the advantage.

 

[SuSa]

Wrong thread people. My bad for forgetting to lock this though.

Also @ Afro

Not if the Ike is any good at spacing.