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Social Falco Social (Where We Prefer The Air And The Points Don't Matter!)

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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Had a feeling it was. Any setups into it?
What do you mean? As in setting up into Nair? I can only think of the rapid jab cancel to Nair. Nair setups, however, are a bit easier since Nair's a fast move. Nair sets up into Fair: https://youtu.be/c9TwXJoRDqE, Nair can chain together, lead into Utilt, cause a grab reset, and more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FXzYeU1TJA, and unrelated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmzOpdm_yh0.

Also unrelated, but I this thread was supposed to be a more a relaxed and unwind place to talk about other things instead of drowning in metagame stuff which is more for here: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-king-of-the-birds-game-play-discussion.367184/. So, how does everyone like that Star Fox Zero has Fox and Falco wearing their scouters now? Back then, they only wore headsets.

Yea, makes sense. Although, I have one question to ask, who's a notable falco???? I haven't seen anyone too outgoing with him at all.
Check here: http://smashboards.com/threads/falcos-tournament-representation.374263/.

To give a rundown, Cyro, GimR, Gamegenie222, Kato, Liquid, Zanryo, Domino, Dao, and sometimes Keitaro and FOW. Terminalkai is a channel that has amazing Falco plays, but since I can't read Japanese, I don't know who they are, what tournament, etc.
 

T25XL

Smash Journeyman
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What do you mean? As in setting up into Nair? I can only think of the rapid jab cancel to Nair. Nair setups, however, are a bit easier since Nair's a fast move. Nair sets up into Fair: https://youtu.be/c9TwXJoRDqE, Nair can chain together, lead into Utilt, cause a grab reset, and more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FXzYeU1TJA, and unrelated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmzOpdm_yh0.

Also unrelated, but I this thread was supposed to be a more a relaxed and unwind place to talk about other things instead of drowning in metagame stuff which is more for here: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-king-of-the-birds-game-play-discussion.367184/. So, how does everyone like that Star Fox Zero has Fox and Falco wearing their scouters now? Back then, they only wore headsets.


Check here: http://smashboards.com/threads/falcos-tournament-representation.374263/.

To give a rundown, Cyro, GimR, Gamegenie222, Kato, Liquid, Zanryo, Domino, Dao, and sometimes Keitaro and FOW. Terminalkai is a channel that has amazing Falco plays, but since I can't read Japanese, I don't know who they are, what tournament, etc.
The Japanese never cease to impress. I love those guys, and yea I knew American ones but eh, none are fun to watch, Imma check out that japanese channel tho.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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Out of curiosity, which commonly encountered top/high tier characters do you guys feel that Falco can hold his own against?
Diddy, Fox, and bad Sheiks come to mind. I'm dead serious when I say that pre-patch Diddy was manageable for Falco. The only things that held Falco back was that Diddy's metagame was miles ahead, but Keitaro's performance against Diddy players, the fact that Falco hits freaking hard and has a strong edgeguard game would have evened out Diddy's quicker mobility and setups. Hit for hit is something you don't want to do against Falco. Falco is kind of like a more mobile, skinnier, better jumping, and blue, feathered Ganondorf.

Fox makes sense and it's always been like this sort of like how Mario and Luigi don't have major advantages over each other or how Roy and Marth will probably end up in a tie. Both their jabs get canceled out by the other meaning Fox can't really jab cancel and Falco can't really jab Fox at times, but because they're similar, well, because Falco's a semi-clone, and each excel at where the other doesn't, they pretty much counter each other. What holds Falco back is that there more good players of Fox and Fox's metagame is still miles ahead; we don't have a Megafox, Larry Lurr, or Yui.

For Sheik... yeah... Any incompetent Sheik is going to get murdered by a player aware of what's going on and can figure things out. You have to understand Sheik really well to play her which is why I think Sheik is a very difficult character to use much less master. Against someone like False and Zex? Falco probably doesn't have a chance, but against someone who picked Sheik thinking they can win because she's a top tier or someone just inexperienced, Falco's got an edge because he hits much harder than Sheik. Unless you know the setups, when you use what move at what time, an understanding of fundamentals, and a good feel of when to go in or out, Sheik won't be doing much, but tacking on damage and not being able to capitalize on it.

People also felt good about Falco vs. Villager, ROB, and Captain Falcon. Roughest matches would be against Rosalina and Palutena. They will juggle Falco to hell and back. Shulk's also an issue too since his Monado has such good range while Falco's slow horizontal speed means he won't be able get in before Shulk does something like Fox. Fun fact: Falco's slower than Ike and No Arts Shulk.

Edit: Star Fox Zero with the metal boots and combining Falco's current "hairstyle" with 64's outfit.
 
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Gamegenie222

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Villager if you consider Villager high tier and I talked to MJG recently in person about the MU and agreed with me it's even. Ness and Luigi's are maybe even I feel like or we lose slightly along with Fox and Falcon. Outside of that we lose to everyone slightly or get bodied but nothing of 7-3 and I can't comment on ZSS.

What do you mean? As in setting up into Nair? I can only think of the rapid jab cancel to Nair. Nair setups, however, are a bit easier since Nair's a fast move. Nair sets up into Fair: https://youtu.be/c9TwXJoRDqE, Nair can chain together, lead into Utilt, cause a grab reset, and more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FXzYeU1TJA, and unrelated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmzOpdm_yh0.

Also unrelated, but I this thread was supposed to be a more a relaxed and unwind place to talk about other things instead of drowning in metagame stuff which is more for here: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-king-of-the-birds-game-play-discussion.367184/. So, how does everyone like that Star Fox Zero has Fox and Falco wearing their scouters now? Back then, they only wore headsets.


Check here: http://smashboards.com/threads/falcos-tournament-representation.374263/.

To give a rundown, Cyro, GimR, Gamegenie222, Kato, Liquid, Zanryo, Domino, Dao, and sometimes Keitaro and FOW. Terminalkai is a channel that has amazing Falco plays, but since I can't read Japanese, I don't know who they are, what tournament, etc.
I'm hype as hell for Star Fox Zero also gasp notable Falco's me IDK what to say.
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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I'm hype as hell for Star Fox Zero also gasp notable Falco's me IDK what to say.
Star Fox 64 3D had Mike West doing his classic impression of Fox with a high-pitched voice, but Zero has him sounding older and more natural - I have no idea what West's natural voice is - kind of like Steve Malpass for Fox in Star Fox Adventures. The design on Fox is cool, it's a mixture of the Command-Brawl design with 64's influence, the metal boots which Command technically had, and its own flair, the upturned collar. This is a design that would be awesome in a future Smash, but then again, Fox's design hasn't changed that much compared to Falco. Falco's kind of weird since he went through a haircut, mohawk to slicked back, a different jumpsuit, orange to red, different scarf, red to orange, and his Adventures outfit was pretty cool - it gave off a space gangster feel. Eh, I guess his red jumpsuit and orange scarf grew on me.

The dinky dino mech reminds me of Robotech: Battlecry. In that game, you could switch from a fighter jet, to something in between, and a robot. This is the in between.
 

Gamegenie222

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Diddy, Fox, and bad Sheiks come to mind. I'm dead serious when I say that pre-patch Diddy was manageable for Falco. The only things that held Falco back was that Diddy's metagame was miles ahead, but Keitaro's performance against Diddy players, the fact that Falco hits freaking hard and has a strong edgeguard game would have evened out Diddy's quicker mobility and setups. Hit for hit is something you don't want to do against Falco. Falco is kind of like a more mobile, skinnier, better jumping, and blue, feathered Ganondorf.

Fox makes sense and it's always been like this sort of like how Mario and Luigi don't have major advantages over each other or how Roy and Marth will probably end up in a tie. Both their jabs get canceled out by the other meaning Fox can't really jab cancel and Falco can't really jab Fox at times, but because they're similar, well, because Falco's a semi-clone, and each excel at where the other doesn't, they pretty much counter each other. What holds Falco back is that there more good players of Fox and Fox's metagame is still miles ahead; we don't have a Megafox, Larry Lurr, or Yui.

For Sheik... yeah... Any incompetent Sheik is going to get murdered by a player aware of what's going on and can figure things out. You have to understand Sheik really well to play her which is why I think Sheik is a very difficult character to use much less master. Against someone like False and Zex? Falco probably doesn't have a chance, but against someone who picked Sheik thinking they can win because she's a top tier or someone just inexperienced, Falco's got an edge because he hits much harder than Sheik. Unless you know the setups, when you use what move at what time, an understanding of fundamentals, and a good feel of when to go in or out, Sheik won't be doing much, but tacking on damage and not being able to capitalize on it.

People also felt good about Falco vs. Villager, ROB, and Captain Falcon. Roughest matches would be against Rosalina and Palutena. They will juggle Falco to hell and back. Shulk's also an issue too since his Monado has such good range while Falco's slow horizontal speed means he won't be able get in before Shulk does something like Fox. Fun fact: Falco's slower than Ike and No Arts Shulk.

Edit: Star Fox Zero with the metal boots and combining Falco's current "hairstyle" with 64's outfit.
Funny enough Larry Lurr was the NA Falco player and won an Apex with him back when Brawl was still big and smash 4 he plays Fox. As for certain match up's Palutena with customs i can see as bad but outside of that it's even without them or slight advantage to her. I agree with Rosalina though and I have been learning Rosalina as my top tier character as of lately so I can use her in tourneys and to know how to fight her better. And Shulk I can see slightly even until Falco is offstage with jump or speed harassing us with fair and nair. At least he beat him up close and his fastest button is jab and alot of his stuff is unsafe.

Star Fox 64 3D had Mike West doing his classic impression of Fox with a high-pitched voice, but Zero has him sounding older and more natural - I have no idea what West's natural voice is - kind of like Steve Malpass for Fox in Star Fox Adventures. The design on Fox is cool, it's a mixture of the Command-Brawl design with 64's influence, the metal boots which Command technically had, and its own flair, the upturned collar. This is a design that would be awesome in a future Smash, but then again, Fox's design hasn't changed that much compared to Falco. Falco's kind of weird since he went through a haircut, mohawk to slicked back, a different jumpsuit, orange to red, different scarf, red to orange, and his Adventures outfit was pretty cool - it gave off a space gangster feel. Eh, I guess his red jumpsuit and orange scarf grew on me.

The dinky dino mech reminds me of Robotech: Battlecry. In that game, you could switch from a fighter jet, to something in between, and a robot. This is the in between.
I haven't looked too much into the VA yet but getting some of the old SF64/SF64 3d heads like Mike West is cool. If we are talking about designs I'm all about Assault designs actually.
 

Ffamran

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I haven't looked too much into the VA yet but getting some of the old SF64/SF64 3d heads like Mike West is cool. If we are talking about designs I'm all about Assault designs actually.
Star Fox 64 was made in a time when things were cheesy and they were fun. With a remake, it was basically let's do it again, but updated, so, West came back and was probably told to do those cheesy lines. In other words: it was probably meant to be intentionally bad to feel nostalgic. At the same time, that doesn't translate well to Smash 4 when for some reason, West sounded even worse than in 64 and 64 3D. Then you hear West now in Zero and he sounds pretty cooler and more like an older, normal-sounding Fox. Something like Steve Malpass, but now Jim Walker who was freaking awesome as Fox. Falco pretty much sounds like Falco in 64 3D and Smash 4. Less of the Brooklyn Falco of Assault and Brawl, and more of a drier, "whatever", flippant kind of character.

For Fox, I like this, Brawl's/Smash 4's, and 64's/Command's designs which are pretty much the same thing. Assault was cool, but Fox sort of looked like a Christmas tree with the color choices. Adventures gave off the explorer feel with the vest. Falco's would be Brawl's/Smash 4's, Command's, and Adventures. I really wished Falco had an Adventures or gangster alt to go with his background and Fox with a James McCloud alt - basically Fox with sunglasses.
 

ParanoidAndroid

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I heard Star Fox Zero was base breaker? Can someone explain how?
I haven't heard that yet. I guess because it's a "re-imagining" of the series. Basically a remake of Star Fox and Star Fox 64. This probably means that some characters from past games won't make it or be different. The main character I can see being excluded is Krystal. Krystal has some pretty outspoken fans too. The control scheme could also be turning people off. From what I've read about the demo at E3 the controls seem to be cumbersome and gimmicky. The game doesn't look like it's a Wii U game either, so it's getting a lot of hate from that too. If you look at Xenoblade Chronicles X and look at this game there's a clear difference in graphical quality. I think it's going to be delayed until Spring 2016.
 

Sol0ke

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I haven't heard that yet. I guess because it's a "re-imagining" of the series. Basically a remake of Star Fox and Star Fox 64. This probably means that some characters from past games won't make it or be different. The main character I can see being excluded is Krystal. Krystal has some pretty outspoken fans too. The control scheme could also be turning people off. From what I've read about the demo at E3 the controls seem to be cumbersome and gimmicky. The game doesn't look like it's a Wii U game either, so it's getting a lot of hate from that too. If you look at Xenoblade Chronicles X and look at this game there's a clear difference in graphical quality. I think it's going to be delayed until Spring 2016.
Is that so? Regardless, I'm hyped for Zero.
 

Snackss

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Miyamoto confirmed that the game looks pretty basic because it's being rendered twice, rather than simply having a menu on the bottom screen or a duplicate of the tv like most games do with the Gamepad. Especially with Platinum involved, I think it ought to be really good, but the demo was disappointing because the guy playing was just so mediocre. He didn't do any barrel rolls, he didn't boost, didn't even try to dodge shots. He just drifted through the level and shot at things.

Also with the aerial buffs, it feels like Falco doesn't get completely bodied by Yoshi anymore. Looks pretty promising even if he still has no approach.
 

ParanoidAndroid

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Miyamoto confirmed that the game looks pretty basic because it's being rendered twice, rather than simply having a menu on the bottom screen or a duplicate of the tv like most games do with the Gamepad. Especially with Platinum involved, I think it ought to be really good, but the demo was disappointing because the guy playing was just so mediocre. He didn't do any barrel rolls, he didn't boost, didn't even try to dodge shots. He just drifted through the level and shot at things.

Also with the aerial buffs, it feels like Falco doesn't get completely bodied by Yoshi anymore. Looks pretty promising even if he still has no approach.
Yeah I was thinking because the gamepad will be rendering game play as well the graphics would need to be pretty simple so it will run smoothly. The look of the game doesn't really bother me. Fox's model looks really good too. He's so fluffy!

Yeah Falco feels much better now. Falco has pretty much been buffed with every patch. The only patch that was a real nerf for me was when they took the fast fall f-air away on the first patch. I think his up smash buff from the Mewtwo patch has been his greatest buff. I never used that move because it was so terrible, but now I get a kill from it every so often.
 
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This will probably make you guys curious. Weekly tournament:

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-playhem-weeklies-16-smash-4-singles-6-18-15.406898/

Anyway, I thought Falco wasn't so good at first until I kept spending more time on him. Now I think he's actually pretty good. I'll use him from time to time (or at least, I'll try to). I did use him back then but I sucked really bad with the blue bird so I was kinda discouraged. I've been doing better with him and the last patch was fantastic for Falco. I main Shulk, fun and good character imo
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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Currently trying to learn Falco. Any tips?
Watch videos like Ally showcasing Falco off at a recent tournament: https://youtu.be/s-c09dysUbg.

Keitaro did too, but I don't know when the matches will be uploaded. One thing to do is practice and learn about how Falco's moves work as every move has a use. Oh, and practicing RAR Bairs with Falco. More info on RAR (reverse aerial rush) here: http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Reverse_Aerial_Rush. This will helps with not just Falco, but most if the cast, especially with Ike, Fox, Mega Man, Luigi, Mario, Dr. Mario, Pit, Palutena, and more. And one more thing: have fun.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

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I've also been developing my Falco and I've been having a lot of fun. He's much better than I originally thought. I can actually see potential with this one. I have a capture card so I should upload some matches.

Also, that's hype Attila is hopping on the Falco train. Maybe I'll see some of that Brawl Snake incorporated in there haha.
 

Superbat

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Falco dittos anyone? Trying to level up my falco. Only have the wii u btw
 
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ZTD | TECHnology

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So is there a location where I can find a comprehensive listing of combos for this character? From playing as Falco, I have a good idea of what to do in neutral and when to use the lasers but my issue right now is knowing when I can do certain combos from Down Throw mostly. A lot of times I end up just juggling them after a Up Throw instead because I don't know what's true or not. I would also imagine that a lot of these combos are DI dependent as well. In some cases, the way this character punishes reminds me much of Meta Knight (which also explains why there are so many of the MK boards here). So I can dig that, I just need to know what my options are at a given percent/character. Other than that, learning Falco has been fun. Juggling people across the stage and flying across with Illusion is realllllly fun. I'm gonna make Ally sit down and teach me some Falco stuff so I can start using him more in tournament. I love me some combos.
 
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Ffamran

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We have stickied threads for a reason: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-approaches-and-combos-strings.372417/. :p

Sort of, kind of yeah. Why? We end up free-styling since there's a ton of stuff. The usual is U-throw to an aerial, F-throw to Dash Attack and D-throw to Dash Attack work, but they're not reliable, same with Up Smash from D-throw, and RAR Bair might be safer, more rewarding, and more reliable, Utilt to Nair, Nair to Utilt, Dtilt acts a launcher, and you can Ftilt to Reflector. Oh, and there's the usual Utilt chains and Falco can Up Smash chain at low percents like Mega Man.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

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Thanks. I saw thread but there's a buttload of posts/random info strewn everywhere so I didn't know if there was just a one stop shop for that. I just had no idea Falco had so many combo options.

Guess I gotta practice a bit. I'm relying more on BnB combos and I wanna expand to more rewarding stuff. My wings are still new though ;)
 
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Ffamran

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The issue with Falco and probably most of the cast is that Falco doesn't technically have true combos if you factor in DI, different air speeds, different fall speed, etc. Most of the stuff you do as Falco, Fox, Captain Falcon, and ZSS is on the fly and from recognizing what moves do what. So, Uair for example can send people up and away or in front of Falco. Away from Falco is probably the worst for the opponent since he's going to Bair them on reaction. Dtilt is a launcher which lets Falco use it like Dash Attack, Utilt, Up Smash, and throws to set up followups. Knowing all of this is what makes Falco a dangerous comboer since he hits hard and racks up damage fast like Captain Falcon, Luigi, and Ike, but he doesn't really have much guarantees.

Oh, and the fun thing is that Falco combos with kill moves, so there will be moments where you're comboing with Uair at low percents and then it kills at high percents. At low percents because Bair has no base knockback - it's all knockback growth -, he can chain like 3 Bairs on opponents who DI badly. Then they die to Bair. :p
 

ZTD | TECHnology

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Oh so yeah its like playing Meta Knight then. Lots of combos. Some true stuff but then a lot of stuff is just a matter of reacting to DI.

Yeah I'm gonna make Falco mine.

Fun + different + stylish = match made in heaven.

I'll try to get some vids up this week.

:4falco:
 
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Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
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Falco's biggest weakness is definitely a poor neutral game. He's too slow to capitalize on a lot of his baits. He can't punish things on shield that other characters punish effortlessly. And he's bad at punishing retreating rolls or dashes.

If he moved like fox, he'd be top tier without a doubt.
 

Ffamran

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Falco's biggest weakness is definitely a poor neutral game. He's too slow to capitalize on a lot of his baits. He can't punish things on shield that other characters punish effortlessly. And he's bad at punishing retreating rolls or dashes.

If he moved like fox, he'd be top tier without a doubt.
Also an almost nonexistent projectile game when you consider Sheik can spam single Needles and advance, Luigi being able to spam Fireballs with little end lag and "rapid fire" rate, and how Fox can run away after using Blaster.

If Falco moved like Fox, I think he would invalidate Fox. You'd have a "clone" who hits much harder, has a much faster and stronger Bair, a stronger edgeguard game, has a higher jump meaning he can use his ground speed and Uair to juggle and boot people to the blast zone even better than Fox, he has an "offensive" Reflector, he would be able to use pivot Ftilts like Fox, and his grab issues wouldn't be as bad as dash grab slower speed would be countered by a higher run speed which means his throw game and grab game would be good. In customs, give Falco Burst Blaster and there you go, a better Fox. Oh, but Fox has jab cancel and an easier to use Dair, but that would be all he has by default compared to a hypothetical Falco with Fox's dash speed.

Hell, if Falco ran as fast as Roy, there would be some issues with how overwhelming Falco could be. Hits fast, hits hard, jumps high, edgeguards like a monster, and now runs fast. Dayum. If anything, Falco running at Mario and Ryu's speed would really help since he's barely faster than Olimar and slower than Lucario, Ike, Luigi, Wario, Mii Swordfighter, Lucas, and Samus. Or an air speed buff like being as fast as Rosalina, Robin, and Little Mac would be good too. Then again, Falco wasn't fast in Brawl and Luigi isn't fast in this game and Mega Man's not fast on the ground either, but his air speed and fall speed are good. What compensated or "countered" this? Usable projectiles, or in Brawl Falco's case: a broken as hell projectile. Gee, let's give him the ability to fire lasers that covered Final Destination, do hit stun, and let him fire even faster than in Melee while being able to auto-cancel from short hops too. Meanwhile, let's cripple the range on Fox's Blaster even though it does no hit stun and is annoying damage rather than a move that could interrupt you and stop you from doing anything. Meanwhile, Sheik and her 1% Needle that does hit stun. ZeRo's use of single and partially charged Needles at CEO was both disgusting and intelligent.

The specializing of Fox being fast on the ground, but slow - average as of now - in air, Wolf being fast in the air, but slow on the ground would have worked or been nice if Falco was average in both, but as it stands, he's slow on the ground - Brawl Falco was barely faster than Wolf while running, but slower while walking -, and slow in the air - used to be tied with Fox, but Smash 4 Fox's air speed was increased while Falco's was left alone. Vertically, he's good because of his jump and fall speed, but last I checked, this isn't Ice Climbers we're playing. Fox used his ground speed to make hit and runs with Blaster, especially now since he can't auto-cancel them, Wolf never could auto-cancel his Blaster, but he used his air speed to drift in and out with Blaster, and Falco pretty much relied entirely on auto-canceling to work his Blaster.
 

BltzZ

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My friends went to miami supercon (I couldn't go this year) and they found this beautiful piece of art, brought a singletear to my eye. The only real piece of art I actually own :)
20150628_225316.jpg
 
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Zionaze

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I really like phantasming behind the opponent and then slap their punish with a ftilt since everyone thinks theres landing lag.
 

Ffamran

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There's no landing lag? I've been using Fox too much, I just accept my fate.
Not as fast as before - nobody's tested to compare regular end lag with IAP -, but Falco and Fox were capable of doing this in Brawl and I think Melee and PM. You have to short hop and instantly do Falco Phantasm or Fox Illusion so Falco or Fox are just barely off the ground. When they finish, they'll land without the usual end lag.
 
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Cyro

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Oh, I forgot to mention...
I think I'm confirmed for EVO this year. It all depends on how busy I'll be that weekend.
So! I may or may not be ready to drown in pools.:b:
 
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