Social Falco Social (Where We Prefer The Air And The Points Don't Matter!)

Trieste SP

Smash Champion
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Damn, this place has gone kinda quiet for quite some time.

I still rep Falco from time to time. Still working on getting some techs consistently.
 

Gamegenie222

Space Pheasant Dragon Tactician
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Alot of the falco's do their own thing or stay in the Falco Discord chat so yeah.

Also Star Fox zero is ok.
 

-m0

Smash Ace
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Hi guys, smashboards doesn't like me so I wasn't notified of this thread, and this thing is so inactive I thought it was perfectly norma...
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ffamran, why? where did you get the notion your long posts were detrimental to the communty plz come back...
 

Tino

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Y'all should thank me for bringing this thread back to life. :pimp:

And also, I'm sorry about what happened with Ffamran Ffamran , even though I'm like two months late on that but still...
I wonder what he's been doing since then.
 

TheblackGreninjaplayer

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*Appears* What's up guys, i'm just a Greninja and Dark Pit, also, add Future Falco main. I'm new here, i just recently started maining Falco, and just wanted to say "Hiya ! I'm new here" and chill with all of you space burds. So yeah, sup.
 

-m0

Smash Ace
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Heeeeeeeeey! Welcome man. This thread's mad slow (theres been like 10 pages since launch) but make yourself at home! :4falco:
 

Tino

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There's always room for more birds in the sky, especially the ones who prefers the air.
 

Ffamran

The Awesome HPJ
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Goddammit. Look at this.

Smash 4 became really vibrant compared to Brawl's more gritty flavor. I'm fine with Falco's current "red" alt, but it looks a bit faded out and it doesn't pop like this. There's also the problem where most of Falco's alts in Smash 4 tend to have a single color theme. There's not a lot to contrast like in Melee or Brawl where like his red alt in both games, you had a white scarf, brown jumpsuit, and his metal boots which were black in Brawl. In Smash 4, it's just this shade of pink with only his "sleeve belts" and greaves giving some contrast, but not enough. Only his default, blue, and green subvert this in Smash 4 while his black, orange, purple, red, and sort of his white alt stick with a color theme. At least in Brawl, his black alt had a brown jacket and his orange alt had a yellow jacket to give contrast. His white alt in Smash 4, could have gone further with one of Star Fox Command's endings and made the top of his jumpsuit red and maybe his legs tan or black to give it contrast.

Maybe I'm just complaining, but looking at this retexture and seeing how vibrant it looks makes me wish some Falco's alts had more contrast and pop to them.

There's also this version which is a bit less vibrant, but that might be the lighting of the stage, and has his boots look different to match him wearing greaves instead of Melee's metal boots.
 

-m0

Smash Ace
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What is this 20XX I've heard so much about?
Ooh, ooh, me, me!
20XX was a meme a while ago. While commentating a match, a commentator (I think it was Scar?) started talking about the Megaman games, many of which start with, "It is the year 20XX. Dr. Wily has taken over the world." He then started talking about a theoretical year 20XX here where everyone plays Melee Fox to TAS-level perfection. Therefore, battles will always end in ties, and so the winner is decided by controller port priority. The players play Rock Paper Scissors every match to decide port priority, and therefore who wins the game. People would get really hyped about these RPS matches and now it's a constant joke in the Smash community.
 

Tino

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Ooh, ooh, me, me!
20XX was a meme a while ago. While commentating a match, a commentator (I think it was Scar?) started talking about the Megaman games, many of which start with, "It is the year 20XX. Dr. Wily has taken over the world." He then started talking about a theoretical year 20XX here where everyone plays Melee Fox to TAS-level perfection. Therefore, battles will always end in ties, and so the winner is decided by controller port priority. The players play Rock Paper Scissors every match to decide port priority, and therefore who wins the game. People would get really hyped about these RPS matches and now it's a constant joke in the Smash community.
Well, aren't you enthusiastic? lol
 
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Ffamran

The Awesome HPJ
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Now that most of Falco's hitboxes are out, I can compare them with other moves from other games. Most of this is for fun to see games having similar moves or referencing them. One big example is Mario having 2 Shoryukens: his Utilt which looks the most similar as he does an uppercut with a spin and his Super Jump Punch which is functionally the most similar, but is more like Ken's rather than Ryu's which is what Dr. Mario's Super Jump Punch is more like. For Falco, who was a Fox clone, he started with a Flash Kick and Guile's at that. The only difference is that both of theirs didn't start from a crouch nor did they have invincibility on their upper body or legs which is continued today with Fox's Up Smash. Although, Fox does drop a bit lower than in 64 and Melee where he just stood up before backflipping and Fox's charge animation is a crouch. Also, they did have invincibility, but on their heads which kind of doesn't make sense for a kick attack...

Anyway, Smash 4 gave Falco a different Up Smash, Charlie Nash's Somersault Shell, a back-facing frontflip. It started off rough, but as of 1.1.4, it really is Charlie's Somersault Shell. Regardless of patches, Falco's Up Smash always started in the same animation as Charlie's Somersault Shell where he faces his back with his head down. Hitbox placement, however, was high up which for Falco wasn't really good since it wasn't "high" enough unlike Charlie's light Somersault Shell which has the closest hitbox to Falco's pre-1.1.4 Up Smash.
Ignore the green invincibility since Falco didn't have invincibility before 1.1.4. This is, however, the first active hitbox before 1.1.4 at frame 8.
prepatch Falco up smash startup.jpg


Light Somersault Shell's first active hitbox is placed before Charlie even lifts his leg, but in an instant...


This happens and it's pretty close to Falco's Up Smash, except much higher up.

Falco's pre-1.1.4 Up Smash started at waist level which wasn't really good for catching people in the air since it was too low and it also whiffed on characters who were crouching, laying on the ground, landed hard, or had some animation where they in a lower position than standing because it was too high. Charlie's light version having a high also had the problem of whiffing on crouching characters, but because the hitbox is much higher, it could anti-air better. It also had this description from the image's site which I don't really get what it's saying: "Lk flash kick starts with a grounded hitbox on active frame, this makes in not unblockable in the air".

Post-1.1.4, Falco's Up Smash starts lower similar to Charlie's medium and heavy Somersault Shell. The difference between medium and heavy is that medium only hits low and once while the heavy version hits low then up and twice, Charlie rises higher, and apparently, it also raises his hurtbox.
New first active frame introduced in 1.1.4 made Falco's Up Smash frame 7 on startup and had a much lower hitbox. New hitbox also matches Charlie's medium and heavy Somersault Shell where it starts right when he's about to kick.
postpatch Falco up smash startup.jpg


Medium Somersault Shell.


Heavy Somersault Shell.

In action, as gifs, this is what Falco's Up Smash and Charlie's Somersault Shell look like. It might be better to see them in video forms... especially Charlie's which seems much faster. Here's a link to Charlie's Somersault Shell from a movelist video: https://youtu.be/kMvKmtw_PdA?t=78.
Falco's.


Charlie's.

Falco's post-1.1.4 Up Smash is kind of a hybrid of all versions of Charlie's Somersault Shell; it has the anti-air capabilities of the light version mostly done through its high active and invincibility frames rather than a very high hitbox on startup, it has the medium version's low hitbox and not raising Falco's hurtbox, and it has the heavy version's multi-hit. The one thing it shares with Somersault Shell in general is that it's fast in animation, but in slightly different ways; Falco's just happens so fast that you can't really tell Falco's doing a back-facing frontflip -- it's even harder to tell what he's doing when you do a reverse jump-canceled one --, a trait that's shared with some of Falco's other moves like Reflector where you probably won't be able to see Falco put his Reflector in front of him before kicking, while Charlie's hit happens really fast, so even if the first hitbox seems weird, Charlie almost immediately swings his legs making the hitbox not seem as weird. The things they don't share is that Falco doesn't hit straight on like Charlie; Falco hits slightly diagonally since he twists rather than facing completely backwards. The other thing is that Falco hits with both legs rather than twice with one leg like Charlie (and Guile whose EX Flash Kick is also a multi-hit). Falco also kicks with his left leg first while Charlie kicks with his right leg.

The last thing about Charlie's heavy Somersault Shell hitting twice with one leg is a bit interesting to me... After 1.0.8, Falco's Up Smash has no frame gaps between the first and second hit even though it wasn't really a big deal since it would have only had 1 frame gap between the first hit's last active frame, 12, and the pre-1.0.8 second hit's first active frame, 14. I'm not sure, but I think it's the only 2-hit move to not have a frame gap. Frame gaps aren't really a bad thing unless they're insanely high for a looping hit like Brawl Falco's Fair which had 7 frame gaps for its loop hits. Most multi-hits that don't have a looping hitbox like Falco's Utilt, Fox's Uair, or Ryu's heavy Ftilt work fine and some of them that seem to have been intended to not connect like Melee Falco and Fox's Fair or Ganondorf's old Nair bring up interesting ideas as being like lingering aerials where it slowly goes through late hits unlike lingering aerials that have the strong hit out for a few frames before the rest of it is late. Anyway, I wonder if Falco would rather have Charlie's heavy Somersault Shell hit style where one leg hits twice. This, of course, would kill the active frames, but I have different ideas about that. First kick hits twice doing the same total damage and the increased knockback of 1.1.4 Up Smash while the second kick acts as a late hit that does maybe the old knockback of pre-1.1.4 Up Smash or perhaps it could be adjusted entirely and do Brawl's clean hit data with its late hit angle sending people flyiing behind Falco. What I'm thinking is this: first kick hits frame 7-9 and 10-12 while the second kick keeps the same hit frames of 13-20. It might need some adjusting since it would be a bit stupid if the first kick ended up connecting into the second kick. It would do something like 4% + 12% (first kick) + 12% (second kick) for 28%. I don't know, it could be much more interesting, especially if Wolf comes back in a future Smash since Falco's Up Smash does function similarly while having I-frames and no frame gaps, but lower total damage and shorter horizontal range, and could make it even more reliable if the first kick.

There's more for Falco, but some of them are bit weird and a stretch like the closest thing Falco and 64 and Melee Fox's Ftilt is Charlie's Step Kick which is the only move I know that's a slightly angled kick, but Falco and 64 and Melee Fox's is a roundhouse while Charlie's, I think, is a front kick. There's even one where it seems like Falco's the one being referenced instead of the other way around.

Sources: Charlie Nash's hitboxes in Street Fighter Alpha 2: https://sfz2.wordpress.com/hitbox-data/nash-hitboxes/, and Falco's hitboxes in Smash 4: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-hitbox-visualization.439050/#post-21306835.
 
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Sipikahew (~)

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
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13
Hey.
I'm that guy who can never choose his main.
Although I'll always remain loyal to the Bird and The Ninja Elf Princess.
 

Galm

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Keeping the dream, er, thread alive.

If you were looking for nine seconds of Falco fun, here you go.
 
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Ralugi

Smash Apprentice
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Mar 24, 2016
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Uranium238
Still living. Anybody know how to time the Dair?
 
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