Data Falco Patch History

[Baskerville]

I locked Dair on mario :V
edit: still locks fox at 0

Was it the soft hit? It doesn't work with the hard hit.

 

[Zionaze]

Was it the soft hit? It doesn't work with the hard hit.

yea it was the soft it can confirm sweetspot doesnt jab lock now :V

 

[Lime Cultivist]

Fair is definitely a lot better now. Feels great to play him, even if he wan't buffed that much, I'm happy! Now I just want to play an online match that's not Ryu, I just went through 5 in a row and said I'm done.

 

[CursedJay]

Dair appears to have more active spike frames, making easier to connect. It's significantly easier to use now

 

[Zionaze]

To me falco seems like he got nerfed :V

 

[CursedJay]

To me falco seems like he got nerfed :V

I think he may have been nerfed in terms of raw damage, but his aerials are much more viable than they previously were.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I haven't tried Falco in a legit match yet today, has anyone felt like they could pull off more than before? Any reduced kill/combo potential?

 

[Ffamran]

Since it's been a while that I played - only reason I'm playing right now is to check Falco's changes -, can anyone check if Falco's Fire Slide works? The Fast Fire Bird slide. I don't remember how to do it.

To me falco seems like he got nerfed :V

Assuming no changes to his hit frames, then yes, Falco's been nerfed. Nair: 12% to 11% (-1), Fair: 8% to 9% (+1), Fair landing: 5% to 3% (-2), and Uair: 11% to 10% (-1) all means that Falco does -3% less damage with his aerials. Dair having a new hit angle on grounded opponents means Falco can't jab lock them like in the past with spike, frame-canceled Dairs. The unconfirmed changes to Falco's Fair being faster, Dair's spike having longer active frames, and even trivial things like a 0.001 increase to his walking speed means that aside from Nair connecting better, Falco's been overall nerfed, slightly, but not severely.

Edit: Reflector Void might be slower... But like I said, it's been a while since I played.

 

[Zionaze]

because of the Fair KB change I cant pull off some of my usual combos but idk

 

[Ffamran]

Won't know about KB, hit angles, hit frames, etc. until we get a data dump or someone with two systems can check, but they're only going to get hit frames and maybe hit angles.

Fair might be faster, but not Brawl fast. Kind of wished they sped up his Dash Attack by 2 frames at least.

 

[ShineFantasm]

I haven't tried Falco in a legit match yet today, has anyone felt like they could pull off more than before? Any reduced kill/combo potential?

Managed to dair into another dair which spiked, that was so sick, I really like this post patch Falco, but, I feel like fair pseudo chain grab is harder to do now, since there is more landing lag because of the other hits of fair connecting earlier and faster than the final hit on the ground, by the way, at high percent, dair into upair is a thing now... he may have been nerfed it term of raw damage like someone said, but he is definitly better at getting damage and kills setup

there is also something weird with nair, I was trying some stuffs in training with dthrow into nair and it appears that when you fast fall it sometime before the last hit, you will have a bit more time to use something else, I mean its like the last hit is delayed but still there when you fast fall, do you get it guys ?

EDIT : was able to do this : dthrow FFnair FFnair nair as a true combo, this could be another way to pseudo chain grab !

 

[Ffamran]

Managed to get it, Fire Slide's still doable with Falco's Fast Fire Bird and probably Fox with his Flying Fox. For those that don't know about the technique: http://smashboards.com/threads/falcos-fast-fire-bird-perfect-landing-slide.395739/.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

1.0.8 Patch Notes so far:
1% buff to Falco's bair, dair.
Fair has some slight property changes, the weak hits now do 2% instead of 1!, I'm thinking the animation got sped up. Double jump fairing has him going for his second jump at about half-the height of his full jump.
F-smash has a 2% buff
D-smash now only does 13%
Phantasm has a 1% buff
You guys are right about nair, short hopping it doesn't wiff anymore!

Placebo?
Phantasm range is a bit farther?
Fair landing lag is shorter?
Bair doing more knockback?

Pretty good day to be in the Lombardi crew!

 

[ShineFantasm]

1.0.8 Patch Notes so far:
1% buff to Falco's bair, dair.
Fair has some slight property changes, the weak hits now do 2% instead of 1!, I'm thinking the animation got sped up. Double jump fairing has him going for his second jump at about half-the height of his full jump.
F-smash has a 2% buff
D-smash now only does 13%
Phantasm has a 1% buff
You guys are right about nair, short hopping it doesn't wiff anymore!

Placebo?
Phantasm range is a bit farther?
Fair landing lag is shorter?
Bair doing more knockback?

Pretty good day to be in the Lombardi crew!

For me dsmash does 15%, phantasm still doing 7%, but you're right, Falco will soon begin to shine :D

 

[Ffamran]

1.0.8 Patch Notes so far:
1% buff to Falco's bair, dair.

Did you mean Fair which does 1% more? Bair's clean hit still does 13% and late hit does 7% and Dair's clean hit still does 13% and late hit does 8%.

F-smash has a 2% buff

Still does 15% clean and 10% late.

D-smash now only does 13%

Still does 15% clean and 12% with the body hitbox.

Phantasm has a 1% buff

Still does 7% when used on the ground, 7% on grounded opponents when used in the air, and 6% on mid-air opponents when used in the air.

Pretty good day to be in the Lombardi crew!

Until we can get someone to prove Fair starts up sooner and such, it's a bad day to be in the Lombardi crew when the only notable buff is Fair's 1% increase in the air and Nair connecting better. Landing Fair doing 2% less, Uair doing 1% less, and Nair doing 1% less are all series of unwarranted nerfs. Dair's spike not causing ground bounces could be considered a nerf since he can frame cancel and lock with Dair spikes anymore. I would have liked a faster Dash Attack, faster, but weaker Dair, faster grabs, and less end lag on his Blaster, but yeah...

Edit: Was Falco able to Reflector to Fair in the past on some characters? Checked the hits of Fair and it does 6 hits now explaining the 9% since he's doing another weak, 1% hit, and apparently he can Reflector to Fair on Marth. This would be evidence that Fair is faster. I couldn't get it to work on Mario, though.

 

[McDareth]

I can't give you hard evidence that his Fair is faster but I can tell you that from my experience both his start up and the total animation of his Fair are definitely faster to me. His fair was the move that I used the most and I almost immediately noticed that the hits sequenced much faster from just hearing it hit in game.

I also can somewhat confirm that it does start faster (imo almost as fast as Bair) as Down Throw to Fair is a true combo now at around 60 - 70%.

 

[Shog]

I can't grasp the idea of Falco getting any kind of nerf you Falco mains here...
did someone important won a Japanese Tourney with Sakurai there with Falco? That might explain it :/

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

So it seems to tested evidence suggest nerfing. Please, please, someone prove some buffs.

 

[Ffamran]

I can't give you hard evidence that his Fair is faster but I can tell you that from my experience both his start up and the total animation of his Fair are definitely faster to me. His fair was the move that I used the most and I almost immediately noticed that the hits sequenced much faster from just hearing it hit in game.

I also can somewhat confirm that it does start faster (imo almost as fast as Bair) as Down Throw to Fair is a true combo now at around 60 - 70%.

It might be around frame 10 like Uair or frame 6 like his Ftilt and Brawl Fair hit. Still wished someone here had two systems they could compare or a way to record and compare.

I can't grasp the idea of Falco getting any kind of nerf you Falco mains here...
did someone important won a Japanese Tourney with Sakurai there with Falco? That might explain it :/

The only tournaments I know Falco won was way back in the day with FOW, but I don't remember that and Eshura took a tournament with Falco in Colorado, but no offense, he wasn't doing anything spectacular or overwhelming Fishbait to warrant anything like, "Is Falco's Uair too fast?", or whatever that Diddy got. In other words: there was absolutely no reason to nerf Falco.

Anyway, Fair does 6 hits now, one more weak hit, the 1% hits, leading up to a total of 9% after the 4% strong hit. Nair's second hit does 2% instead of 3% now making the total of 11% instead of 12%, but it connects better. I'll update the frame data thread when everything's been settled. His landing lag for Fair... Yeah, the naked eye cannot tell, but it might be the same as Dair now. In the past, it was 32 frames of landing lag which if shorter than or as the same as Dair, means it'll have at least 26 frames of landing lag - also means Fair will have less landing lag than in Brawl.

 

[Snipnigth]

What i have notice so far, Fair is much faster now and the the landing hitbox now does 3% instead of 5%, Nair pulls ppl in now connects much better (more reliable on sh now) and last hit seems to have more knockback, his up air is faster too but now deals 10% it also lost its sourspot now it always hits hard no matter how you hit it...overall his airgame was improved a lot, lasers seem the same thought.

 

[McDareth]

Another thing with Fair is that it can still semi-spike on a trade with another move which I was slightly worried they might have made that not possible anymore. It's harder to do while lingering as it doesn't last as long but much easier to do on reaction since it starts faster.

 

[Ffamran]

What i have notice so far, Fair is much faster now and the the landing hitbox now does 3% instead of 5%, Nair pulls ppl in now connects much better (more reliable on sh now) and last hit seems to have more knockback, his up air is faster too but now deals 10% it also lost its sourspot now it always hits hard no matter how you hit it...overall his airgame was improved a lot, lasers seem the same thought.

Losing Uair's sourspot means Falco lost a hit confirm. Even if it was a slow one, Falco could sour-spot Uair to Bair in the air and probably Down Smash or Up Smash on the ground. That's one unique thing gone from Falco and I think it's weaker, like not just 1% weaker, but knockback-wise too. Back then, I used Pit and it killed with his legs at 162% and the body hit killed at 872%. Now, if you hit with the legs, Pit gets sent like with Captain Falcon and Ganondorf depending on where you hit. As of now, if you hit with the body which sends Pit straight up, it kills at 178% while the legs kill at 194% and sends Pit at an angle. It's nerf that not only gives Falco a weaker Uair which Falco can't abuse like Mario or Captain Falcon who have good air speed or Luigi who can consistently confirm it off of D-throw and Falco's Uair's raw power was like Ganondorf who were slower, but the power made up and rewarded their ability to land a Uair, but it takes away the uniqueness of his Uair, the sour-spot body hit. I'd rather have the powerful Uair with a sour-spot for hit confirms and basically doing Uair chases instead of juggling like every other character with a Uair. It's making him generic.

 

[Beach]

I kinda like the changes and is it just me or does bair have a longer active hitbox for the strong hit?

 

[ShineFantasm]

Omg, guys, try to FH nair and see what happens, you're opponent is dragged in the air with you, and if he tries to jump right after he takes the final hit, interesting

 

[zanryo]

Up air seems more difficult to land after up throw. What I mean by difficult is that you have to get much closer to them, and does it come out quicker? Less %, and I don't know about knockback.

I don't use dair so I don't know what's different besides it popping grounded opponents up.

I'll use his fair in serious matches later to justify whether it was a good or bad change. For starts it looks as it's better since it's faster and has less end lag in both finishing in the air or grounded.

Phantasm looks like it hits opponents a 'little' further than it used to. It just isn't like Fox's illusion.

Nair is better at connecting.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

If I happen to find out more changes, I'll post them here.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Falco's air mobility feels better.

Am I trippin'?

 

[zanryo]

Falco's air mobility feels better.

Am I trippin'?

Yeah

 

[Ffamran]

Damn it. I don't remember Falco's jab speed, but it might be sped up. @ Captain Rage Quit 69 , please help us. You did have two 3DSes, right?

 

[Zionaze]

Something about his jab was nerfed for me.
When I try jab 12 into grab/tilt it fails for me :V
Why in gods name did sakurai nerf falco

 

[Jabzilla]

Only reason I can see Falco getting a nerf is that maybe a Wolf reveal is up soon? Though that is a lame excuse.

Falco needs more representation and these nerfs won't help.

 

[Snackss]

I haven't updated my 3DS version yet. Though I never do jab 1-2 because it's just not really a setup at all most of the time, so I wouldn't notice as well as other people.

The neutral air change is pretty big, though.

 

[Snipnigth]

Losing Uair's sourspot means Falco lost a hit confirm. Even if it was a slow one, Falco could sour-spot Uair to Bair in the air and probably Down Smash or Up Smash on the ground. That's one unique thing gone from Falco and I think it's weaker, like not just 1% weaker, but knockback-wise too. Back then, I used Pit and it killed with his legs at 162% and the body hit killed at 872%. Now, if you hit with the legs, Pit gets sent like with Captain Falcon and Ganondorf depending on where you hit. As of now, if you hit with the body which sends Pit straight up, it kills at 178% while the legs kill at 194% and sends Pit at an angle. It's nerf that not only gives Falco a weaker Uair which Falco can't abuse like Mario or Captain Falcon who have good air speed or Luigi who can consistently confirm it off of D-throw and Falco's Uair's raw power was like Ganondorf who were slower, but the power made up and rewarded their ability to land a Uair, but it takes away the uniqueness of his Uair, the sour-spot body hit. I'd rather have the powerful Uair with a sour-spot for hit confirms and basically doing Uair chases instead of juggling like every other character with a Uair. It's making him generic.

i do think is faster now and it can be used like falcons or marios more eficiently now...thats somehting to look foward to at least.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Oh shoot.

Did you mean Fair which does 1% more? Bair's clean hit still does 13% and late hit does 7% and Dair's clean hit still does 13% and late hit does 8%.


Still does 15% clean and 10% late.


Still does 15% clean and 12% with the body hitbox.


Still does 7% when used on the ground, 7% on grounded opponents when used in the air, and 6% on mid-air opponents when used in the air.


Until we can get someone to prove Fair starts up sooner and such, it's a bad day to be in the Lombardi crew when the only notable buff is Fair's 1% increase in the air and Nair connecting better. Landing Fair doing 2% less, Uair doing 1% less, and Nair doing 1% less are all series of unwarranted nerfs. Dair's spike not causing ground bounces could be considered a nerf since he can frame cancel and lock with Dair spikes anymore. I would have liked a faster Dash Attack, faster, but weaker Dair, faster grabs, and less end lag on his Blaster, but yeah...

Edit: Was Falco able to Reflector to Fair in the past on some characters? Checked the hits of Fair and it does 6 hits now explaining the 9% since he's doing another weak, 1% hit, and apparently he can Reflector to Fair on Marth. This would be evidence that Fair is faster. I couldn't get it to work on Mario, though.

I see what I've done wrong.
I charged my Smashes slightly without noticing. My apologies.
I don't know where I got my other "buffs" from....


These notes are very disappointing indeed.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Falco needed the buffs he has gotten without those nerfs, badly.

 

[Zionaze]

? So was fair nerfed or buffed?

 

[Ffamran]

? So was fair nerfed or buffed?

Both. What happened to Fair below.

Confirmed nerfs: 2% less on landing hit.

Confirmed buff: 1% more damage to aerial Fair.

Unconfirmed buff: decreased startup and decreased landing lag. Not sure by how much and how fast is it now.

Other changes: Fair does one more hit explaining the 9% for the aerial version. Knockback is still unconfirmed.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falco U-air is frame 7 now on the back end. Confirmed by testing against Bowser's Jab. Thanks to angle changes, U-air -> B-air is much easier to land for KO confirms.

The D-air change is sorta a buff and a nerf. Mostly a buff because you still have combos into U-air from it and now they aren't techable. Only a really minor nerf at high percents assuming your opponent doesn't tech the meteor.

N-air is waaay waaaay waaaaaaaaaay better now that it has autolink angle on the multihits. The 1% nerf is meaningless when it's a 3 frame aerial that can potentially KO (MUCH better for edgeguarding and juggling). Also it is now properly classified as a Special Offensive Collision, meaning it always sends your opponents the direction Falco is facing when you connect the final hit (this is super important in low% juggle strings after D-throw, now you don't have to guess which direction they will be sent when chasing them).

I believe Jab is now a Special Offensive Collision, I tried multiple times to get people to be knocked backwards by Jab. Couldn't make it happen, which means Jab is a lot less likely to randomly get you punished on hit if you're too close (you can still be too close and just completely whiff, but connecting the Jab at least is consistent).

F-air animation is definitely sped up, not much else to say about that.

Unconfirmed: less ending lag on grounded laser?

 

[Gamegenie222]

So we got a small buff and nerf? Outside of that we looking at a fat bird or a thin bird here overall?

 

[A2ZOMG]

So we got a small buff and nerf? Outside of that we looking at a fat bird or a thin bird here overall?

Falco is noticeably better. You can now much more safely use N-air to cover options in spacing and juggles which is HUGE, and the position advantage from landing it in combos is way better/more consistent. U-air juggles are easier to do with Falco too, and Jab being more consistent is also very nice.

The minor damage nerfs don't mean squat in comparison to much more convenient spacing/juggling tools.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Thin, definitely thin.
No meat on those bones at all.

Sakurai has drained all my love for this game at the moment. Have any of you heard of any major changes in other characters?