Data Falco Patch History

[Thinkaman]

I played around with blaster and could find no changes.

Dair seems unchanged too.

 

[Ffamran]

I played around with blaster and could find no changes.

Dair seems unchanged too.

Thanks for the confirmation. Welp, looks like this patch, 1.0.3 (3DS)/ 1.0.6 (Wii U) and patch 1.0.5 (3DS)/ 1.0.2 (Wii U) will be the easiest to summarize.

 

[Domin0]

I've been playing Falco since the beginning. His speed on the ground seems a bit quicker, and his jabs seem quicker as well. Is anyone else feeling the same? To me, it was noticeably different...

 

[Ffamran]

I can't say for ground speed since I don't have 2 3DSes or a way to record things reliably and nobody's checked yet, but aside from Up Smash linking better, no confirmed changes are known. There's this, but Thinkaman couldn't replicate it.

As I mentioned earlier, Falco's jab 2 can be cancelled into the rapid 2 frames earlier now.

Gif comparison: left is pre-patch, right is post-patch.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I can't say for ground speed since I don't have 2 3DSes or a way to record things reliably and nobody's checked yet, but aside from Up Smash linking better, no confirmed changes are known. There's this, but Thinkaman couldn't replicate it.

Unfortunately I've already patched all my games, so I can't check anymore. However, owing to the fact that I've been playing Falco since October, neither I nor anyone I've fought have noticed any difference in walk or run speed, or even dash. As for the jab, I feel like that's Sakurai trying to fix our jab however little it matters. It's the thought that counts? :/

I still stand by no other changes existing, all damage percents have been unaltered from what I checked and no knockback angles have been noticeably shifted either. Given the nature of the other character buffs/nerfs in this patch, I think it's safe to say that none of Falco's speeds have been affected either. A shame, I would've hoped for faster Blaster animation.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I agree, maybe there was a "buff" in his walk speed like what @ Ffamran said yesterday where it's a very slight change (like 0.0232) but nothing else has changed that I can see.
I've looked at them all, my Wii U has the new patch and I have a 3DS at my side that had the patch from before. Everything seems exactly the same, there may be more slight changes, but that would require a much closer look than just looking it at.

I can say though, I like that the up-smash is reliable, it has pretty good kill power and the percentage dished out is great as well. I will start using it more, but I've conditioned myself to not use it much until now. It helped me clutch out a win against a Mewtwo today.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I can say though, I like that the up-smash is reliable, it has pretty good kill power and the percentage dished out is great as well. I will start using it more, but I've conditioned myself to not use it much until now. It helped me clutch out a win against a Mewtwo today.

Oh yeah, I've been using up smash far more often now. It dishes out a lot of damage, and on certain characters you can follow up dthrow with it at low percents, great damage builder and kill move. It's such a small change, but it's definitely a buff in my book.

 

[BltzZ]

Yeah upsmash being reliable has helped me so much today online. Now when dummies attack my shield i can get a kill or set up an up air.

 

[Ffamran]

I asked Thinkaman on Up Smash's changes and how you would explain it and he gave this theory:

So, I've hesitated to quantify this, but I think visually there is a slight difference in the location of the victim for the 2nd hit of Falco's u-smash in 1.0.6 next to 1.0.5. I'm not sure if I'm imagining it or not--I AM looking for it, so it's very likely.

If anything, Zelda's Up and Side Smashes have this listed as changes:

Confirmed Changes

Zelda
Forward Smash Loop Hit angles lowered, 60/160 -> 20/170 (Inner hit-box / Outer hit-box.)
Phantom Slash

Endlag very slightly decreased.
Destroyed Phantom regeneration timer increased, 6 seconds -> 9 seconds.
Phantom stands out for roughly 1/4 of a second longer after attacking.​

​

So, it's likely the hit angle and/or knockback was changed to make some multi-hitting moves link better.

And why Falco's not listed in the full list? Unlike Zelda who had this issue since Melee and who another change, Phantom Slash, Falco just had this problem and it's fixed as of now in SSB4 and it's his only change. It's like what this said:

Seemingly unchanged


WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? It doesn't mean they aren't changed, it means that any changes are either superficial, apply to another character more, or are knockback based and are better off waiting for data dumps rather than attempting to confirm them.

1.0.4 3DS / 1.0.1 WiiU Community Patch Notes

​

Also, universal changes:

Confirmed Changes

Engine

• A + B together produces smash attacks
  
• Tilting the analog stick + smash stick together no longer produces tilts, but rather smash attacks. [NOOOOOOOOOOO]
• Tilts/smashes while holding an item has been removed (Link, Megaman, Peach, etc)
  
• Lylat Cruise edges (including Omega) changed to "slope" recoveries (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1KfENM50ME)

 

[Superbat]

Dang. We still booty then? Dam. Low tier Falco heroes. Nair actually fully connecting is actually pretty amazing. Always hated not getting all of the full hits though. Can people confirm @ Beetle Juice data though? Only difference I'm seeing is that crisp up smash hitting properly now and that nair

 

[Beetle Juice]

Alright so this is what I have found out after testing falco other than the up smash,

- His Nair properly connects multi hit move instead of whiff (drags opponent to each hit to behind falco). Nair sucks opponent into multi hit move even when grounded. Less landing lag when I fast fall

- Up tilt end frames are reduced (meaning he can follow up with Bair)

-His down throw knock back is reduced, which is great, because falco can now combo with D Throw-> Fast fall Uair, Up tilt-> Nair or Bair (if Bair then a Upsmash) at lower percents, leading to 54% combo with Bair and upsmash or 37% with Nair at low percents (it was on Dk so maybe I'm wrong).

- Is Bair Sourspot seems to have reduced Knockback and it feels harder to sweet spot it.

I might be wrong and it might just be a placebo but can someone confirm the Nair for be because I was testing it on different characters but after using it on Olimar It gives be that gut feeling. I also found myself stage spiking with reverse hairs offstage

Edit: You can jab cancel with falco (one jab that is) and it also seems that they extended his grab range. If you don't believe me, jab once then use your reflector and see how fast it comes out.

Edit Edit: jab to grab front throw will come out as a two hit combo. Falco will rise again

 

[Snackss]

Edit Edit: jab to grab front throw will come out as a two hit combo. Falco will rise again

Falco's forward throw is 2 hits. It would be a 3 hit combo if the jab counted.

 

[Beetle Juice]

back throw kills at 120 after shot and up throw kills above 158 % for medium weight characters

 

[Ffamran]

Welp, time to go through this... Also, first off, don't use "feel" or "I think", the issue now is that people have been throwing out claims left and right with the patch that about 12 pages were just claims and stupid stuff in the patch thread: smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-patch-version-1-0-6-thread-updated-wed-11pm-pst.398902/. This is the claims/stupid stuff dump: http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-patch-dump.399217/.

Alright so this is what I have found out after testing falco other than the up smash,

- His Nair properly connects multi hit move instead of whiff (drags opponent to each hit to behind falco). Nair sucks opponent into multi hit move even when grounded. Less landing lag when I fast fall

- Up tilt end frames are reduced (meaning he can follow up with Bair)

-His down throw knock back is reduced, which is great, because falco can now combo with D Throw-> Fast fall Uair, Up tilt-> Nair or Bair (if Bair then a Upsmash) at lower percents, leading to 54% combo with Bair and upsmash or 37% with Nair at low percents (it was on Dk so maybe I'm wrong).

- Is Bair Sourspot seems to have reduced Knockback and it feels harder to sweet spot it.

I might be wrong and it might just be a placebo but can someone confirm the Nair for be because I was testing it on different characters but after using it on Olimar It gives be that gut feeling. I also found myself stage spiking with reverse hairs offstage

Edit: You can jab cancel with falco (one jab that is) and it also seems that they extended his grab range. If you don't believe me, jab once then use your reflector and see how fast it comes out.

Edit Edit: jab to grab front throw will come out as a two hit combo. Falco will rise again

- His Nair properly connects multi hit move instead of whiff (drags opponent to each hit to behind falco). Nair sucks opponent into multi hit move even when grounded. Less landing lag when I fast fall

I might be wrong and it might just be a placebo but can someone confirm the Nair for be because I was testing it on different characters but after using it on Olimar It gives be that gut feeling. I also found myself stage spiking with reverse hairs offstage

The thing about Falco's Nair is that it's hit or miss most of the time if you try to hit it with the front part of Falco. I believe @berserker. figured that his Nair connects better from the back for some unknown reason and it's probably been like this since Brawl. It's probably one of the few RAR Nairs you should use. It might be the way he attacks since while spinning, Falco's arms are angled slightly down and perhaps the hitboxes are "called" from the back or something that I honestly don't know. So, word to wise, if you're using Falco's Nair, try RARing it.

Considering that it does 12% total, is a multi-hit move, and comes out at frame 3, it'd be really ridiculous for it to properly link all the time. Other Nairs like Fox's have a strong hit aka the clean hit that's out only for a couple frames while the late hit does about half the clean hit's damage. Falco's if it properly connected all the time would be doing 12% consistently from frames 3 to 23. That's not exactly what I would call a fair move even though Mach Tornado exists...

- Up tilt end frames are reduced (meaning he can follow up with Bair)

We'd need side by side evidence for this and since we don't have IASA frames, this will stay unconfirmed and nobody, but you mentioned it here or in the patch thread. It's probably a placebo since Falco could Utilt to Nair since release which means he can do Bair too, if the opponent DI's badly since there's only a 1 frame difference between Nair and Bair.

-His down throw knock back is reduced, which is great, because falco can now combo with D Throw-> Fast fall Uair, Up tilt-> Nair or Bair (if Bair then a Upsmash) at lower percents, leading to 54% combo with Bair and upsmash or 37% with Nair at low percents (it was on Dk so maybe I'm wrong).

This will need to wait until Dantarion releases the patch data dump since knockback numbers can be found there. Or it's the hit angle that people are launched. We're just going to have to wait on this.

- Is Bair Sourspot seems to have reduced Knockback and it feels harder to sweet spot it.

Falco's strong hit/clean hit is from frames 4-5. In other words, you have 1/60th of a second to land that as SSB4 runs at 60 FPS (frames per second), but if you can, it's one of the strongest Bairs out there along with being the fastest Bair tied with Sheik, Mega Man, and Wii Fit Trainer's. So it was always difficult to land since you need to react right at the moment Falco's in range.

The weak hit/late hit begins at frame 7-11 and is "easier" to land since it's out there for a while and Falco's air speed can make it difficult to land his Bair. For reference, in patch 1.0.4 (3DS)/1.0.2 (Wii U), Falco's late hit Bair kills roughly twice the percent of his clean hit. In approximate KO percent I found using Pit at center stage on FD/omega stages on the 3DS, Pit dies at 120% with the clean hit; he dies at 241% with the late hit. It's always been weak. For confirmation, we'd need, once again, to wait for Dantarion's data dump to see if the late hit was (unnecessarily) nerfed.

Edit: You can jab cancel with falco (one jab that is) and it also seems that they extended his grab range. If you don't believe me, jab once then use your reflector and see how fast it comes out.

Falco could always Jab cancel with Jab 1 or Jab 2 since Brawl and SSB4 kept it, but I believe the delay is longer from what someone said way back.

Grab range will also need to be confirmed by the data dump.

Edit Edit: jab to grab front throw will come out as a two hit combo. Falco will rise again

Someone already said it where F-throw is a two hit move, so it's not a true combo.

On another note: Falco's reverse Up Smash won't hit shorties like Pikachu, but that's not a problem since Yoshi and Fox's reverse Up Smashes don't hit either.

@ Thinkaman is probably right about how Up Smash hits differently in location. This is bad memory, but I think Falco's Up Smash before this patch sent people back a bit before letting the second kick connect. Now, it looks like the first kick "locks" them in place for the second kick. At higher percents as @ Zionaze notes, it will whiff since there's probably still enough knockback for it to do so, but 600% to 700% is already stupid and nobody's going to live to those percents, so it's a moot point any way. So, this can be considered as changes to hit angles and/or knockback.

Here's another theory: hit frames changes. Potentially, the second kick of Up Smash has been changed to come out faster. As of the patch 1.0.4 frame data, the second hit comes out at frame 14 and lasts until frame 19; the first hit comes out at frame 8 and lasts until frame 12 with a frame 9 hit that I'm not sure where it's at. Here's the thing, that's a delay of 6 frames before the second kick has a hitbox. If it's reduced to say, frame 12 meaning that the first kick ends when the second kick is "called", it could connect better due to raw speed changes. That's just a theory, though.

 

[Beetle Juice]

Thank you @Fframran

You should test the up throw and back throw. I was running some games with my brother and back throw kills by the edge around 120%, and up throw around 158% or above (not including heavyweight characters, and percentage between of 50-80% damage on Falco).

 

[Ffamran]

Thank you @Fframran

You should test the up throw and back throw. I was running some games with my brother and back throw kills by the edge around 120%, and up throw around 158% or above (not including heavyweight characters, and percentage between of 50-80% damage on Falco).

Check the slightly outdated frame data thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/ill-...moveset-data-will-be-outdated-by-4-15.387402/.

I used Pit for the KO percent tests and it's weird in a sense that he would die earlier or later than Mario sometimes. Why Pit? Pit, Dark Pit, and Wii Fit Trainer are ranked 25 for weight while Mario's 22 if I remember correctly, so Mario's not the middleweight for some reason in this game while the others are. All of the KO percents are from center stage which explains why B-throw kills so late since the laser will stop hitting at all from center stage, but at the ledge, 120% sounds right for a middleweight. Also, no rage, so Falco's at 0% while Pit's at whatever KO percent. For a quick check: U-throw kills Pit at 187% if the laser connects or 270% if the laser doesn't while he dies to B-throw at 307%.

But we're getting slightly off-topic. If you want to talk more about Falco, this place would be good: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-king-of-the-birds-game-play-discussion-q-a.367184/.

 

[Zionaze]

I'd like to point out that before 1.06 I would pivot before a JC-U-smash so only the strong hit would connect. But after the patch if you pivot, both weak and strong hits will connect.

 

[Ffamran]

I'd like to point out that before 1.06 I would pivot before a JC-U-smash so only the strong hit would connect. But after the patch if you pivot, both weak and strong hits will connect.

You can still space a reverse Up Smash so only the second hit connects since the second hit has a bit more range, but it might depend on characters since the first hit looks like it ends a bit higher up than the second hit. So, you could space and hit only with the 12% on ROB, but maybe not on Bowser. Eh, it's all good since it's 4% more damage since both hits connect and it's more consistent now.

 

[Zionaze]

I vaguely remember not being able to connect both hits on Ganon and Falcon but now I can

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Grumble grumble, when will the frame data get here? Not to sound impatient but I want to re-educate myself on safe options against fast characters as soon as I can. D:

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Nair spiking? That sounds too good to be true. I can't believe it until so video proof is shown.
Fair still does give a weak spike if it collides with another hit, so that options is still around.

I can also say the nair doesn't magnetize the opponent, it still wiffs all the time, that is untrue.

 

[Ffamran]

Grumble grumble, when will the frame data get here? Not to sound impatient but I want to re-educate myself on safe options against fast characters as soon as I can. D:

If I remember correctly, someone said Dantarion was out for a week, so maybe 2 weeks from the patch?

 

[Snipnigth]

I can add that up tilt dosent seem any diferent from before, it can combo into itself and bair on character like c.falcon in a specific %, but this was true for previous version too. Do you guys think that dtilt has more hitstund? I was able to combo dtilt into up air on c.falcon, i dont think i was able to combo this before.

 

[Ffamran]

I think hitstun is based on damage now, but I'm not sure. You might be hitting with the stronger hitboxes closer to Falco which would lengthen the hitstun. At the body, Falco does 12%, the tail does 11%, and the disjoint does 9%. Even then, Dtilt was always a launcher and a way to set up things.

 

[Snipnigth]

I know this, it work with both hit closest to falcos body, i was just wondering cuz i have never seen it to true combo into up air , but maybe im just imagining stuff.

 

[Foster J.]

Is it just me, or has Dsmash been knocking people vertically upwards for some of you guys too?.... I don't recall this being in effect Pre-1.0.6 at all

 

[BltzZ]

Is it just me, or has Dsmash been knocking people vertically upwards for some of you guys too?.... I don't recall this being in effect Pre-1.0.6 at all

Pre patch Dsmash would pop people vertically for a follow up when you Dsmash while they're really close to falco like almost centered within him.

 

[Ffamran]

Is it just me, or has Dsmash been knocking people vertically upwards for some of you guys too?.... I don't recall this being in effect Pre-1.0.6 at all

Like BltzZ said, Down Smash has a body hitbox that knocks people up and does 12% instead of 15%. You're probably not going to hit with it often, but it's something to know. I'm not sure if Fox has the same thing going on with his Down Smash.

 

[Foster J.]

Like BltzZ said, Down Smash has a body hitbox that knocks people up and does 12% instead of 15%. You're probably not going to hit with it often, but it's something to know. I'm not sure if Fox has the same thing going on with his Down Smash.

I am very positive that that isn't the case for Fox's Dsmash, I recently picked up Falco again, and thus was wondering if this was new or old.

 

[Snipnigth]

I was messing around with Uair, and im sertaint that i just canceld it!, the same way your suppose to cancel his Dair, can someone confim this?
I think this could be great for falco, its a better move than Dair overall, and much less landing lag if you miss, i wonder if it cancels even if it hit an airborne oponent...

 

[ShineFantasm]

upair damage nerf in 1.0.8 patch : 11% -> 10%

 

[MatrixNexus]

His nair hit boxes connect better now. Also, when hitting someone who missed a tech with a dair, it pops them up now...


Can anyone confirm this?

 

[ShineFantasm]

cant confirm for nair, but what they did to dair... dair into dair is now possible follow up... it may even have combo potential with dthrow

EDIT : there is something weird with fair, I did like all aerial hits and the final hit on the ground on Samus, which made 17% damage
Lasers from both bthrow and uthrow dont seem to miss their target anymore at high percent,
upair is coming out faster
can someone confirm ?

EDIT 2 : I managed to get upair into 1st jab as a 2 hit combo, same with upair into utilt, here is our new approach tool...

 

[MatrixNexus]

Falco's fair connects better as well (same for his jab).

Confirmed?

 

[Zionaze]

does the fair animation now seem faster?
edit: upair nerf confirmed and my patented grab > fair > grab is no longer doable ;.;

 

[MatrixNexus]

His fair does 9% instead of 8%.

 

[Ffamran]

Stuff like that would need someone with 2 systems. Damage is easy since we have archives of frame data. So, frame speed, hit angle, etc. are stuff we'd wait for @ Thinkaman or someone else to do if we want them now. Otherwise, we can wait for Dantarion to release a data dump.

Changes noted by me:

Nair: 12% to 11%. It might have changes to hit angle, as in the weak hits are autolink, allowing it connect better like Zelda's Nair.

Fair: 8% to 9%. It might be faster, but we'll have to wait for someone with two systems.

Fair landing: 5% to 3%.

Uair: 11% to 10%. Both sweet-spot and sour-spot.

 

[Zionaze]

cant confirm for nair, but what they did to dair... dair into dair is now possible follow up... it may even have combo potential with dthrow

EDIT : there is something weird with fair, I did like all aerial hits and the final hit on the ground on Samus, which made 17% damage
Lasers from both bthrow and uthrow dont seem to miss their target anymore at high percent,
upair is coming out faster
can someone confirm ?

EDIT 2 : I managed to get upair into 1st jab as a 2 hit combo, same with upair into utilt, here is our new approach tool...

EDITTTT: I think i was hallucinating or something but now Fair does 9% instead consistently. and the last hit does 3%? Also KB change

 

[Baskerville]

Tested D-Throw to D-Air lock on Fox at 0. D-Air can't lock anymore.

 

[Zionaze]

Tested D-Throw to D-Air lock on Fox at 0. D-Air can't lock anymore.

I locked Dair on mario :V
edit: still locks fox at 0