Q&A Falco, King of the Birds: Game Play Discussion

[Ffamran]

Okay, I'm surprised that I never noticed the impact of this... Compare these images. What do you notice? Hint: something with their arms...

Yeah, I think because of the new animation for Falco Phantasm and perhaps even Fire Bird, Falco's kind of screwed because of that wing heightening his hurtbox. I'm sure Zinoto learned the timing of Falco Phantasm and Fox Illusion or just knows we, both Falco and Fox players, are so lenient with using our Side Specials to recover, but that wing might be helping Zinoto catch Falco more easily with Diddy's Dtilt like here: https://youtu.be/So7Pb0ee3C4?t=128. It also doesn't help that it only hits for the first half of the move. I understand making it so Falco's wings are spread, but I don't know why they made him tilt like that.

These are Fast Fire Bird and Flying Fox, but they're used because it's easier to see. Same dealio where Falco's wings are a bit higher than Fox's arms. Yeah... hurtboxes... Fun, aren't they?

 

[BlueBirdE]

Wow seeing this I take back what I said about the side b can we have a full hitbox please?

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

i have a few questions...
what are the better combos for falco? i know his down-throw combos into his dash attack (i think) but other than that i have no idea about it...
what are his best kill moves?
what are his best options on shield?
what are his best options OUT of shield?
aaaand finally, what aerials should you use mainly?

 

[Snipnigth]

i have a few questions...
what are the better combos for falco? i know his down-throw combos into his dash attack (i think) but other than that i have no idea about it...
what are his best kill moves?
what are his best options on shield?
what are his best options OUT of shield?
aaaand finally, what aerials should you use mainly?

http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-approaches-and-combos-strings.372417/ <----This is the combo thread you'll find everything here.

But here is a quick review: Dthrow combos into, all his aerials (except Dair) and dash attack, best options are, rawr bair, nair and dash attack, on 0% dthrow can combo into upsmash, but on 0% its better to combo into dash attack because on some character rawr bair will miss cuz they fall to fast in 0% and on most cases it will allow a combo/follow up into upsmash after the dash attack.

On all % till like 100% falco is able to combo upthrow into uair, nair, and bair (i think fair too), in about 50% he can even combo upthrow into upair and then fair or bair depending on where they are send flying.

Dtilt is great to start combos as well, it work better if you hit them closest to falcos body that way they wont be send flying to far away and allow to combo into upair and then fair, or nair into fair, or just fair, i think it also depends on opponents DI.

Falling up also sets for really nice combos with up tilt and dash atack, and some kill moves on high % like falling upair into bair.

Phantasma also sets for a kill combo, but its really hard since you have to hit you opponent with the last active hitbox of the move and falco must be almost touching the floor so it minimizes the ending lagg allowing to combo into bair or upair. One way to set the perfect height of sideB is to sh and airdodge immediately then side b as your about to hit the floor, he will do the move just before touching the ground, the other way you must be on the corner, you just run off stage and then sideB back in.

Best options out of shield are, nair, and bair.

Best options on shield are dtilt, ftitl, jab 1 and two and bair, falco is not verry safe on shield in my opinion he is a verry punishable character, to much end lagg in most of his moves.

And all his aerials are fairly good, everysingle one has its merits, fair is amazing at gymmping and catching airdodges, bair is really good on shield and out of shield and kills early, up air is great for combos and juggles, dair is a good gymmping tool as well but not as good as fair, and nair is like a weaker fair, i mostly use it out of shield and to combo into fair.

Hope this helps.

 

[Zionaze]

You can actually get a jablock with dair after dthrow. Dthrow > dair > ftilt x2 > anything

 

[Snipnigth]

You can actually get a jablock with dair after dthrow. Dthrow > dair > ftilt x2 > anything

Yeah but if you opponent techs in place he will be able to punish you, and if he tech rolls he will be out of range and you just missed on some good %.

 

[BlueBirdE]

I think dthrow sh bair would be a better tech cover option. By the time you fast fall i think ud still have advantage if they tech

One of my favorite combos lately has been uthrow to uair nair. Its a specific percent range it combos but dragging them down with nair lets you combo into a fair, reflector and maybe uair/reverse uair? Idk how di dependant it is but if we can connect a uair afterwards it should be a hefty amount of damage.

 

[GreenApple]

Yesterday I was playing with my training guy. He uses Mario quite well and he destroyed me. I think this MU is 30/70 or less. How do you guys deal with Mario? I even got caped while trying to recover using Phantasm, it is so ridiculous!

 

[Snipnigth]

Yesterday I was playing with my training guy. He uses Mario quite well and he destroyed me. I think this MU is 30/70 or less. How do you guys deal with Mario? I even got caped while trying to recover using Phantasm, it is so ridiculous!

http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-01-mario-redux-edition.392988/ <------Here is the Mario vs Falco MU thread.

if you know the matchup well i think its even, but still really hard, he can combo you a lot, and as you say cape your recovery so you have to be smarter when recovering, try to reflect all his fireballs dont shield them if he is close cuz then he will get a guaranteed grab and tons of %, and zone him out with lasers and tilts Falco can give Mario a hard time too.

 

[ArhyLis]

What do you guys think of D-Throw > Dash Attack, then getting under your opponent and U-Tilt? A sort of thought I've only had little chance of getting to try, but when I did it seems to work well as a mix-up.

 

[GreenApple]

http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-01-mario-redux-edition.392988/ <------Here is the Mario vs Falco MU thread.

if you know the matchup well i think its even, but still really hard, he can combo you a lot, and as you say cape your recovery so you have to be smarter when recovering, try to reflect all his fireballs dont shield them if he is close cuz then he will get a guaranteed grab and tons of %, and zone him out with lasers and tilts Falco can give Mario a hard time too.

Thank you, I will go into that thread.

Today we played again. At low percents, Falco has a great combo: jab 1 > d-tilt > n-air. It deals TONS of damage.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

@TheReflexWonder Can Falco's rapid jab be interrupted by frame 3 aerials if you mash A?

 

[Snipnigth]

@TheReflexWonder Can Falco's rapid jab be interrupted by frame 3 aerials if you mash A?

Yup, Yoshi's Nair, comes out at frame 3.

 

[BlueBirdE]

I think it depends on positioning when you hit the move but for the most part yes frame 3 nair will hit you and sometimes itll hit more than once cause sillyness

 

[FMHappy]

Few questions:
-Besides bair, how is spaced fair and spaced nair as approaches? Are they safe on shield?
-When approaching with bair, is it better to SH bair or SHFF bair?

 

[Anragon]

Few questions:
-Besides bair, how is spaced fair and spaced nair as approaches? Are they safe on shield?
-When approaching with bair, is it better to SH bair or SHFF bair?

-Both of them are not, F-air can sometimes but it is not reliable.
-SHFF B-air has +1/0 frame advantage on shield so go for it. Be careful to not get predictable between two jumps however.

 

[Snipnigth]

Few questions:
-Besides bair, how is spaced fair and spaced nair as approaches? Are they safe on shield?
-When approaching with bair, is it better to SH bair or SHFF bair?

As Anragon said Fair is not at all reliable for spacing it lags to much....nair its a similar story but i have noticed that if you space the last it of the move correctly the shield stun it makes will make the move decently safe, tho is kinda had to space correctly...and a lot of moves beat his nair verry easily.

 

[Ffamran]

For those who don't follow @McDareth or check up on him, he retweeted these. Don't know how useful using Fire Bird (and Fast Fire Bird?) to lock people would be considering how slow of a move it is, but it does seem like one hell of a mixup and surprise.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Abuse of active frames and how Falco and Fox's Fire Bird and Fox can interact weirdly at the ledge. Eh, it's kind of like delaying Falco Phantasm's ledge snap.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

This one's interesting.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

For moves with autolink angles, if you get hit, you can semi-spike as a trade for whatever reason. I don't know why, but it works for Falco and Fox's Fair, Wario's Dair, Falco and Zelda's Nair?, and some other moves as well. The others where you don't get hit is locking them at a low height through active frame abuse like with Falco's Nair and Fair to gimp since their knockback isn't exactly strong and their hit angles are more horizontal or fast falling through to cause a semi-spike as autolink angles force the opponent to follow the attacker like what Falco, Meta Knight, and more used to be able to do and what Fox is capable of doing for his Fair at the risk of fast falling too low and dying.

The thing here is that Fire Bird is being interrupted by the ledge snap and not getting hit, used low which ultimately would cause Falco to die, or fast fell which isn't possible and would still kill Falco. The main issue with this is that you'd have to hit with the travel part of Fire Bird which begins on frame 49 and ends on frame 59; Fire Bird's travel hits are the only hits that have autolink angles. There's also about a 2 frame delay between hits, so 49, 51, 53, 55, 57, and 59. It works, but it's not exactly "practical".

 

[Anragon]

This "lock" thing with Firebird is NUTS, definitely gonna pratice that. Also the edgeguarding mecanics looks very interesting too. Thanks for sharing !

 

[Adamas]

Few questions:
-Besides bair, how is spaced fair and spaced nair as approaches? Are they safe on shield?
-When approaching with bair, is it better to SH bair or SHFF bair?

I would not recommend using f-air on shield. F-air has just enough landing lag to make you vulnerable to grabs (assuming that it is used on shield). Personally, I would only use f-air to read jumps and to read rolls with the landing hitbox of f-air. However, since I am in no way a professional player, please take my advice with a grain of salt.

 

[Krysco]

Greetings Falcos! I'm starting a video series where I analysis each stage in the game. Battlefield has already been covered and Miiverse will be next and then Dream Land 64. One thing I noticed with DL64 is that it behaves strangely with numerous directional recoveries including Falco's. When used on the base horizontally, Falco will end the move in his air state and suffer it's endlag along with landing lag shortly after. So I ask, is this a good or bad thing? I'm aware that Fire Bird and it's customs aren't the greatest offensive tools but from what I recall, Fire Bird suffers less endlag when aerial compared to the ground (he does perfer the air after all). Could this have more use in a customs environment, namely with Fast Fire Bird?

 

[Ffamran]

Eh... Found a random video... Up Smash Z-axis shenanigans with Luigi's Super Jump Punch landing animation: https://youtu.be/zekLwF70qUQ? Someone want to text this out since 3DS can't work 2 players for training mode.

 

[Krysco]

Eh, Luigi's animation during the landing lag of Super Jump Punch just shortens his hurtbox by a fair amount. I've had a number of times where I've been R.O.B. and I go to punish the move with a Gyro throw and it goes right over him. If it was almost any other move I'd chalk it up to more crap Falco has to deal with but it was up smash, a move meant to hit high trying to hit a low target.

 

[Ffamran]

Eh, Luigi's animation during the landing lag of Super Jump Punch just shortens his hurtbox by a fair amount. I've had a number of times where I've been R.O.B. and I go to punish the move with a Gyro throw and it goes right over him. If it was almost any other move I'd chalk it up to more crap Falco has to deal with but it was up smash, a move meant to hit high trying to hit a low target.

Yeah, except that Falco's Up Smash (and Utilt) and ROB's Up Smash all have ground-only hitboxes before the rest of the attacks continue. That's what I don't get since Luigi's clearly on the ground or, well, in the ground. Unless something special happens to Luigi, there should be no reason he's not being hit. ROB's Up Smash in particular probably covers the "entire" z-axis fine while Falco's you could say doesn't because he kicks diagonally.

 

[Krysco]

It all depends how low the ground-only hitbox goes. Can it hit a crouching Kirby? If not then it has a height limit and that limit might be above Luigi during the landing lag of his Super Jump Punch.

 

[Ffamran]

It all depends how low the ground-only hitbox goes. Can it hit a crouching Kirby? If not then it has a height limit and that limit might be above Luigi during the landing lag of his Super Jump Punch.

Ground-only assumes the ground which is as low as you can go on the ground and not below the ground like say, Fox's Down Smash or Ike's Eruption or purposely hitting or angling a move low enough it hits through the ground like Captain Falcon's Dair being capable of hitting below a platform despite him landing on the platform. Short answer: Falco's Up Smash and Utilt are capable of hitting a crouching Kirby, WFT, Mr. Game & Watch, and hell, a "standing" Greninja. The only normal Falco can't hit short or crouching opponents is Ftilt, but if you angle it down...

I might just ask the Luigi boards or something... It's kind of stupid since I've had and other players had Falco whiff an entire Up Smash which has 14 active frames because of some weird landing interaction on not just Luigi. Pretty sure TKBreezy had this happen to him too... I'll need to look for that video again.

 

[Krysco]

Ah okay. I'm no Falco expert or Luigi for that matter. I just know that I've had Gyros and uncharged R.O.B. lasers go right over Luigi during his landing lag of Super Jump Punch. I figured since it's an upsmash that whiffed, that it was simply that Luigi's hurtbox shrinks low enough to avoid it.

Unrelated but is the aerial endlag + landing lag better than the grounded lag when it comes to Fire Bird and its customs?

 

[Ffamran]

Ah okay. I'm no Falco expert or Luigi for that matter. I just know that I've had Gyros and uncharged R.O.B. lasers go right over Luigi during his landing lag of Super Jump Punch. I figured since it's an upsmash that whiffed, that it was simply that Luigi's hurtbox shrinks low enough to avoid it.

Unrelated but is the aerial endlag + landing lag better than the grounded lag when it comes to Fire Bird and its customs?

Not really a Falco mechanic. Ground-only or air-only hitboxes exist for Luma's Utilt, Ike's Eruption, Villager's Down Smash, Charizard and Shulk's Up Smash, Mega Man's Mega Upper, and maybe more I didn't bother to look up. The reason his Utilt and Up Smash have ground-only hits? Probably to make them link into the second hits since he'd be hitting people on the ground and trying to lift them up instead of just hitting to lead into a second hit. The problem seems to be Luigi's Super Jump Punch landing animation.

Hmm... Fire Bird and Distant Fire Bird have 19 frames of landing lag and Fast Fire Bird has 28. The issue with total frames which happens regardless if you use it in the air or ground, Fast Fire Bird being capable of reducing its travel distance if you hold down while using it on the ground, and that you can force Falco and Fox to bounce off the ground if you aim downwards and don't travel at least the entire length, and oh, Fox is capable of "curving" his Fire Fox. In the air, you'd also have to factor in fall distance. Short answer: I don't know; too many variables. Although, if you travel on the ground and aim as low as possible, but still travel in the air, I bet the aerial one will take longer since they would have to fall and then land instead of just being on the ground and finishing the animation.

 

[link and ike lover]

Why does Wombo Combo always makes me think of Falco?

 

[LozNerd]

Hey, curious which D-throw combo is better. Do you guys prefer D-throw dash attack and Fair/Nair or D-throw RAR Bair?

 

[Snipnigth]

Hey, curious which D-throw combo is better. Do you guys prefer D-throw dash attack and Fair/Nair or D-throw RAR Bair?

Depends on % and character, on low % vs fastfallers its best to do dash attack cuz rar bair wont hit plus it will allow you to follow up with upsmash or upair....and in any other situation its best to do nair or bair, because they are the more damaging and safe options, never do fair, unless you throw them offstage.

Upair will connect in some situations and allow for a bigger combo...you can do dthrow, full jump rar uair into bair, it works best vs big and heavy characters.

Why does Wombo Combo always makes me think of Falco?

Maybe because of the wombo combo video, the part where they say "That aint Falco" its priceless lol.

 

[ligersandtigons]

how good is falco's side smash for covering the ledge?

i hit a falcon trying to grab the ledge with it the other day so i was just wondering

 

[Snipnigth]

how good is falco's side smash for covering the ledge?

i hit a falcon trying to grab the ledge with it the other day so i was just wondering

With good timing and well spaced you can catch ppl on the 1frame punish when they are recoverying about to grab the leadge, but i think this only works with some recoverys like c.falcons.

 

[theONEjanitor]

how good is falco's side smash for covering the ledge?

i hit a falcon trying to grab the ledge with it the other day so i was just wondering

mostly unreliable, fsmash is only active for like 4 frames so the timing is quite hard to cover the 1 frame of vulnerability. fsmash is godlike against little mac though since he can't sweetspot apparently

 

[ligersandtigons]

thanks guys.

another question, how do i land with falco? especially against fast characters

 

[Snipnigth]

thanks guys.

another question, how do i land with falco? especially against fast characters

If your sure they are going to attack, land with fair, even tho it had a lot of laning lagg it throws another hitbox when it lands, so if it hits its safe if it dosent hit then just hope your opponent screws up his punish, upair just as your about to land is good too...but really the safest way is too trick your oponent with phantasma, and try to go for the leadge to reset as many times as its necesary, falco can have a hard time landing if your going head on since his aerials are fairly punishables on landing.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

Are there any follow-ups for falco after using his bair at 0%? since doesnt have, like, no knockback, but huge knockback growth( like 135?).
and can you tech his D-throw? like in previous games?

 

[Snipnigth]

Are there any follow-ups for falco after using his bair at 0%? since doesnt have, like, no knockback, but huge knockback growth( like 135?).
and can you tech his D-throw? like in previous games?

If you catch them in a sh with a bair then fastfall, you can follow up/combo with ftilt, i think you can also follow it up with dash attack or upsmash but havent tried it.

 

[IndigoSSB]

I've found some success in fast falling and going for another grab after a bair at very low percents. It's been pretty reliable against characters like Luigi who have combo breakers.

 

[theONEjanitor]

so I basically never down throw anymore is this bad?
I feel like upthrow combos are more reliable, even at low percents, do more damage, and provide for more follow ups. am I missing something?