fair lag cancel

[darkspatan117]

I just want to know if that a useful tech I discovered full jump start a fair and you still hit your opponents if they re tall enough it end without lag

 

[zealotscout]

nice discovery but , can it be really be put to use against any character .That might be ur tricks down fall , still more discoveries for the brawl realm , and in this case to Hurricane Ike's move set.

 

[Lex Crunch]

The title was certainly misleading, but good stuff, nonetheless. Could be useful for other situations as well. I'll have to look further into this.

 

[darkspatan117]

nice discovery but , can it be really be put to use against any character .That might be ur tricks down fall , still more discoveries for the brawl realm , and in this case to Hurricane Ike's move set.

no only some of them it work against Snake but not MK

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

This doesn't cancel out the lag, Its still there just your in the air longer so the lag goes on in there instead of on the ground. Basically if you jump higher and have less lag on landing its not because its being canceled.

I remember empy explained this once a long time ago.

 

[darkspatan117]

but I think it more useful than a sh one

 

[zealotscout]

well dark , u might be right , i remmember S hopping a F air and i dropped to soon and canceled all of the attack lol , so... I got my *** handed to me , S hopping fair + bad timing = disaster. personal experience.

 

[Kirk]

Basically you are just landing right when the Fair animation is ending. You are in the air longer, sure, but it gives you other options you don't have with a SH Fair.

Note that a immediate double jump Fair "autocancels" as well. Not too useful...don't want to get hit with no second jump now do we?

 

[darkspatan117]

not to mention it less punishable than a sh one if they shield

 

[metroid1117]

Just to throw it out there (since we're discussing how to "cancel" lag in the air), you can abuse FAir's IASA (interruptable as soon as) frames during landing lag; I did some research on my own and found that it saves roughly 7 frames of lag.

 

[•Col•]

Just to throw it out there (since we're discussing how to "cancel" lag in the air), you can abuse FAir's IASA (interruptable as soon as) frames during landing lag; I did some research on my own and found that it saves roughly 7 frames of lag.

WAIT... The fair has IASA frames????? xD

You sure? Cuz that would really help me, if that's true... xD I can remember a few times where I'd get the landing lag from an fair with an quick opponent running toward me (Like Sonic or Fox), and I'd try to shield, but it took too long and I'd get hit with a dash attack or hyphen smash... If it does have IASA frames, technically it'd be better to try to attack than to just shield....

So yeah, are there really IASA frames on the landing lag of fair? o-o

 

[Kirk]

But of course.

Try out all is other moves too. You'll notice more IASA frames. Try stuff out...you might be surprised what you'll find.

 

[•Col•]

But of course.

Try out all is other moves too. You'll notice more IASA frames. Try stuff out...you might be surprised what you'll find.

Lol, I just never realized... Just how many of his moves have IASA frames? o_o

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

in a convo with kirk he told me Fsmash had IASA so probably a lot of things.

leave it to metriod to mention the IASA though, its pretty much all he talks about so I imagine he knows about them.

 

[Ussi]

fsmash with IASA definably exists, I managed to jab before getting hit after doing it faster than usmash which led to me getting hit >_>

 

[metroid1117]

in a convo with kirk he told me Fsmash had IASA so probably a lot of things.

leave it to metriod to mention the IASA though, its pretty much all he talks about so I imagine he knows about them.

Lol... well, I did research on it a while back when Brawl first came out >.>. I used to test lag by going to 1/4th speed in Training Mode and using a stopwatch to get 100 time trials before finding the average.

Standard Landing Lag on FAir
IASA Landing Lag on FAir

Lol, I just never realized... Just how many of his moves have IASA frames? o_o

I'm not entirely sure, but a whiffed QD and all his aerials save for NAir have very noticeable IASA frames during lag (landing lag for aerials). You can test for IASA frames by simply holding shield while a move ends.

 

[•Col•]

Lol... well, I did research on it a while back when Brawl first came out >.>. I used to test lag by going to 1/4th speed in Training Mode and using a stopwatch to get 100 time trials before finding the average.

Standard Landing Lag on FAir
IASA Landing Lag on FAir



I'm not entirely sure, but a whiffed QD and all his aerials save for NAir have very noticeable IASA frames during lag (landing lag for aerials). You can test for IASA frames by simply holding shield while a move ends.

WTF? o_o Lol.... Just how much time did you spend recording all that info?

Also, the IASA frames can only be used by another attack, right? Like, you can't use them by shielding, right?

 

[XSilvenX]

WTF does IASA mean?

LOLOL

I'm serious!

 

[metroid1117]

WTF? o_o Lol.... Just how much time did you spend recording all that info?

Also, the IASA frames can only be used by another attack, right? Like, you can't use them by shielding, right?

I spent a good 30-45 min after school doing one move per day, then I stopped because I figured the data was too inaccurate and more accurate frame data could be found in other, more efficient ways.

Additional frame research I used to do:
BAir Start-up Lag (how long it takes for the hitbox to come out; tested by jumping up and hitting a Bowser)
Duration of FSmash Animation (without IASA)
Duration of USmash Animation (without IASA)
I didn't upload a scan of my data for a whiffed QD's IASA frames, but I calculated to be +/- 44 frames (when white dust is kicked up).

The great thing about IASA frames is that they not only allow you to attack earlier, but shield earlier as well. I believe that they can also let you jump out of a move earlier, but I'm not 100% sure. I made this video a while when I found out Ike had IASA frames during his landing lag; you may want to view it for further reference.

WTF does IASA mean?

LOLOL

I'm serious!

IASA (interruptible as soon as) frames are frames during the lag of an attack that can be canceled by a shield or standard attack (maybe jump, not 100% sure). For example, if you use Ganon's USmash and hold down shield, you'll notice that his shield comes up much faster than if you had waited for the move to fully end before pressing shield. In Ike's case, he has very noticeable IASA frames during the landing lag of his aerials. You've probably been doing this without knowing the proper term for what you have been doing.

 

[XSilvenX]

I spent a good 30-45 min after school doing one move per day, then I stopped because I figured the data was too inaccurate and more accurate frame data could be found in other, more efficient ways.

Additional frame research I used to do:
BAir Start-up Lag (how long it takes for the hitbox to come out; tested by jumping up and hitting a Bowser)
Duration of FSmash Animation (without IASA)
Duration of USmash Animation (without IASA)
I didn't upload a scan of my data for a whiffed QD's IASA frames, but I calculated to be +/- 44 frames (when white dust is kicked up).

The great thing about IASA frames is that they not only allow you to attack earlier, but shield earlier as well. I believe that they can also let you jump out of a move earlier, but I'm not 100% sure. I made this video a while when I found out Ike had IASA frames during his landing lag; you may want to view it for further reference.



IASA (interruptible as soon as) frames are frames during the lag of an attack that can be canceled by a shield or standard attack (maybe jump, not 100% sure). For example, if you use Ganon's USmash and hold down shield, you'll notice that his shield comes up much faster than if you had waited for the move to fully end before pressing shield. In Ike's case, he has very noticeable IASA frames during the landing lag of his aerials. You've probably been doing this without knowing the proper term for what you have been doing.

That's for DAM sure LOL.

 

[•Col•]

I spent a good 30-45 min after school doing one move per day, then I stopped because I figured the data was too inaccurate and more accurate frame data could be found in other, more efficient ways.

Additional frame research I used to do:
BAir Start-up Lag (how long it takes for the hitbox to come out; tested by jumping up and hitting a Bowser)
Duration of FSmash Animation (without IASA)
Duration of USmash Animation (without IASA)
I didn't upload a scan of my data for a whiffed QD's IASA frames, but I calculated to be +/- 44 frames (when white dust is kicked up).

The great thing about IASA frames is that they not only allow you to attack earlier, but shield earlier as well. I believe that they can also let you jump out of a move earlier, but I'm not 100% sure. I made this video a while when I found out Ike had IASA frames during his landing lag; you may want to view it for further reference.



IASA (interruptible as soon as) frames are frames during the lag of an attack that can be canceled by a shield or standard attack (maybe jump, not 100% sure). For example, if you use Ganon's USmash and hold down shield, you'll notice that his shield comes up much faster than if you had waited for the move to fully end before pressing shield. In Ike's case, he has very noticeable IASA frames during the landing lag of his aerials. You've probably been doing this without knowing the proper term for what you have been doing.

Oh, ok then... =P I have been utilizing his IASA frames then... I just didn't realize it... xD

Anyway, thanks for the vid... Never noticed how much time it actually cut before...