F*** the police?

[Crimson King]

Anyone who has my MySpace will know that anytime the cops kill someone, I will repost it, usually quoting the NWA song. Now, the point of my creating this topic is am I in the right in generalizing against all cops, or am I being unfair and saying that all police are bad.

In the 2009 case against a young man in New Orleans, six plain clothes cops shot a 22-year-old father, with no criminal record, who spent his Sunday's teaching religion in New Orleans. The police claim that he opened fire first, which autopsy actually disproves, so the police returned 14 shots, 12 of which were shot into the young man's back. When I posted this on MySpace, a cop replied "that is what we are trained to do; you weren't there." What he also didn't mention is that the young man was black, in a bad neighborhood after midnight, and did not obey six men's who were out of uniform orders to get out of his car.

Another, more famous case, came shortly after when police arrested several black men in conjunction with a brawl in a train. The brawl ended with several of the black men hand-cuffed and placed face down. Everyone on the train, realizing the obvious racism in arresting only the black individuals in the fight began to film the police. At one point, a cop walks up to a man who is face down with his hands behind his back and barely thrashing, pulls out a gun, and shoots him in the back. The police department said this was a mistake and the cop was a rookie who meant to go for his taser, but the pistol misfired. In the video, you can see him struggle with the strap on his pistol and clearly take it out and aim it. Even if he was going for a taser, the man was perfectly calm and restrained.

So, my question is do we, as people in a supposed free society, have a right to fear and distrust the cops. Police are just normal people, with very low criteria to become a cop, who have been trained to uphold the law with little preventing them from exploiting this.

 

[Miggz]

Regarding the first case: That is extremely mis-fortunate for that young father. But your first case lacks a lot of holes about how the whole thing went down. So I can't fully pick one person's side over the other. But from what you posted, I will express my thoughts on the matter. The first thing that I found extremely suspicious was he idea of six cops not in their uniform. SIX? That's a pretty big group! I also thought cops who were on patrol traveled in 2 man squads. Another thing that stood out was the "he shot first comment." So regardless of who shot first, I guess we have the right to assume he had a gun as well, yes?

Regardless, on one side, if you are in a car and six men (cops or not) with weapons are preventing you from retreating, fighting back isn't exactly the smartest thing to do. Now let's assume he did fight back. This wasn't a very good idea. He was clearly outnumbered. This isn't a James Bond film, you have to tackle these kinds of things logically. Now if he didn't fight back and they still shot him, then yeah that is just unfortunate and obviously unfair. But then again, what if he did pull out a gun but didn't shoot anyone, but threatened to? To me, there is just so much detail lacking from the story. So I can't properly stand up for one side or the other. The only factor that is making me lean more towards the innocence of the 22 year old was that he was approached and attacked by six cops out of nowhere. That I find strange.

Regarding case 2: Yeah now the whole arresting of only the black men is simply bull****. I can't believe cases such as these even occur. That excuse is even worse. How can you mistaken your firearm for a taser? Someone that dumb shouldn't even be on the police force! That's like an artist pulling out a pencil and starts to briefly draw when he realizes that he was suppose to be painting with his brush. So stupid. This story had a lot more detail, and I think its extremely obvious who is at fault here.



But to answer your question, I think we have the right to "fear" the police. Who wouldn't? They have easy access to powerful resources that can cripple/kill individual themselves and/or their reputation. The cold reality is, in every society, their are "dirty cops." Just because some cops are evil doesn't mean we should associate cops with being evil. In fact, all professions one can think of have tainted individuals. I'm sure there are "dirty dentists, dirty fireman, dirty teachers, and even dirty librarians!" But at the end of the day, we rely on these people for help. You are absolutely right...police are indeed just normal people. But it is for that very reason that there will inevitably be good cops and bad cops. All we can do is hope that someday, we will have better requirements to sift out the bad cops from the good ones to make a heather force.

 

[Crimson King]

Regarding the first case: That is extremely mis-fortunate for that young father. But your first case lacks a lot of holes about how the whole thing went down. So I can't fully pick one person's side over the other. But from what you posted, I will express my thoughts on the matter. The first thing that I found extremely suspicious was he idea of six cops not in their uniform. SIX? That's a pretty big group! I also thought cops who were on patrol traveled in 2 man squads. Another thing that stood out was the "he shot first comment." So regardless of who shot first, I guess we have the right to assume he had a gun as well, yes?

Regardless, on one side, if you are in a car and six men (cops or not) with weapons are preventing you from retreating, fighting back isn't exactly the smartest thing to do. Now let's assume he did fight back. This wasn't a very good idea. He was clearly outnumbered. This isn't a James Bond film, you have to tackle these kinds of things logically. Now if he didn't fight back and they still shot him, then yeah that is just unfortunate and obviously unfair. But then again, what if he did pull out a gun but didn't shoot anyone, but threatened to? To me, there is just so much detail lacking from the story. So I can't properly stand up for one side or the other. The only factor that is making me lean more towards the innocence of the 22 year old was that he was approached and attacked by six cops out of nowhere. That I find strange.

All we know from the case is what the cops stated. The six of them claim he fired first. He was a registered gun owner and had a concealed weapon permit. The fact is the cops opened fire on this car without knowing anything about the car. What if, for whatever reason, he brought his child with him? Too bad?

Also, I lied. It was NINE undercover, plainclothes cops:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1377151/adolph_grimes_shot_14_times_by_undercover.html

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/09/new.orleans.shooting/

The problem with your argument is this: while every profession may have crooked individuals, those crooked people aren't power-tripping and killing anyone.

 

[|RK|]

The answer is yes.

I can't go into detail now, but I will give a single story. I am black. Cops in New York beat up my family, from what I was told. Apparently for no reason.

Racism is wrong kids.

Also, I believe that cops need harsher consequences. Far harsher. That as well as limitations.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Yes we do, because in a sense cops can get away with anything.

Every time something like this happens, the police chief or other high ranking people in the police system just say that it's a misunderstanding or a mistake, which is clearly wrong in most cases. Then they aren't kicked out of the system, etc., because they're always backed up, no matter how violent or harsh their crimes are. These cops need more harsher consequences as well, as RK said.

Like you said Crimson, every industry does have "crooked people," but in the case of cops, these crooked people are taking away lives of many innocent individuals.

It's an unfair generalization to say that all cops are bad, but the bad apples tend to really get out of line sometimes.

 

[Miggz]

All we know from the case is what the cops stated. The six of them claim he fired first. He was a registered gun owner and had a concealed weapon permit. The fact is the cops opened fire on this car without knowing anything about the car. What if, for whatever reason, he brought his child with him? Too bad?

The problem with your argument is this: while every profession may have crooked individuals, those crooked people aren't power-tripping and killing anyone.

Well I read the links and the story details are still a bit blurry. No one still isn't sure who fired the first shot, and that is the most important element of deciding who has done wrong here. If the man in the car did fire the first shot, then I have to admit that he was wrong. ''We train our officers to fire when fired upon. We train them to fire more than one shot." A quote I found in the article.

On the other hand, what if the cops did fire first? Then yes, they would be the wrongdoers in this situation. Although it would have been better if they simply incapacitated him instead of killing him.

This story is still way too blurry to properly debate on, and bringing the child into this further complicates the unknown.

 

[Crimson King]

Well I read the links and the story details are still a bit blurry. No one still isn't sure who fired the first shot, and that is the most important element of deciding who has done wrong here. If the man in the car did fire the first shot, then I have to admit that he was wrong. ''We train our officers to fire when fired upon. We train them to fire more than one shot." A quote I found in the article.

On the other hand, what if the cops did fire first? Then yes, they would be the wrongdoers in this situation. Although it would have been better if they simply incapacitated him instead of killing him.

This story is still way too blurry to properly debate on, and bringing the child into this further complicates the unknown.

Coroners report there was no gunpowder on his finger tips. And even if he did, the cops have no reason to fire FORTY-EIGHT TIMES on a man who is simply fleeing from nine guys approaching him.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Yeah, I agree with CK.

First of all, if you were being approached by nine random guys (who it's safe to assume were white), and you're a black guy, you'd undoubtedly be uncomfortable/afraid.
If you have a gun, then you might shoot it, it'd be wrong, but understandable for you to fire the first shot.
If they didn't find gunpowder on his hands, there's a good chance that he didn't fire, and that it was an unprovoked murder.

48 shots fired at an innocent guy is unacceptable.
This crime then going unpunished is a whole different story.
I can understand that it's possible for him to have shot first, but why would the cops confront him in the first place?
They weren't wearing uniforms, which adds to the suspicion, and the guy had no criminal record either.

I don't know, it's curious.

 

[Miggz]

I must admit, that is a lot of shots. In one sense, the number of shots isn't surprising because of the number of cops shooting at this one man in a car, for whatever reason. I'm no gun expert at all, but I'm assuming a basic handgun holds 6 bullets. So 6x9= 54.

What is surprising is that it took that many cops to bring down one man. It sounds really unnecessary if you ask me. These men do have issues, when you put it that way. All those shots we're indeed unnecessary...

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

The thing is, it doesn't take that many shots to take down a man, that was complete overkill.
It was very unnecessary.
I guess the number of shots wasn't that high in relation to the number of cops, but what's the point of shooting 48 rounds at an innocent man? (He's innocent at this point, as he had no previous criminal record.)

 

[Miggz]

Yeah I know exactly what you mean. I'm just trying to piece the story together. Where most of shots fired while he was in the car, thus being shielded from the first round of shots? Either way, I suppose it doesn't matter because when I read he was hit fourteen times in the back...that was indeed "overkill." I'm going to keep following this story as it develops cause its weird...

 

[Sukai]

It's a grim truth of life, power corrupts, this power can range from temporary authority over your younger siblings while mom's gone to being the frikk'n president of the US.
Somewhere in between, police are in that equation. People in power are subject to use their intuitive beliefs to guide the direction and discretion of such power to the point that they'll make rash, unfair, lude, wrong and just plain evil decisions on general principle--because they can. Sometimes it's not their fault, because in a pinch, you'll be left with your own wits to make big decisions, but most of the time, such scenarios are in no way necessary.
I've been a victim of cops doing as they please, back when I was 13 my friends used to ride our bikes around a factory district, we bothered no one, waved to the workers, we just enjoys ourselves, some other kids went over there too and started busting windows with rocks, the police were alerted and my friends were at the wrong place at the wrong time, I saw the situation and went to see what was going on, simply by arriving to check on my friends, I was treated as a criminal.
I've never been cursed out so thoroughly in my life. It was one thing that we were suspected of property damage, but they could've showed some **** respect. Our parents were alerted and when they arrived, those *******s turned as docile and civil as saints.
We were let off, but I was really mad that day.
It's not as lethal as the previous stories, but this is a valid example that there are people who are in no place to have authority over others. I can vouch for good decent cops too, nice civil, can take a joke, people you wouldn't mind having a conversation with or hanging around. All the same, they protect and serve as the badge says.

Just as much as there are cops who make you sick, there are those who make proud to see a person in uniform.
In any case, my bottom line or tl;dr version is not all cops are racist punks, but no one, especially authority figures should gain your trust at first glance. It goes without saying that the justice system needs to be reevaluated.

 

[Nysyarc]

It's like what I stated about morality in another thread:

Morality is something that each individual person must define for themselves. We aren't taught about morals. We are taught about the law, and how we should behave, but morality is different. Morality decides whether people break those laws or not.

Police know the law like the back of their hands. They have to. But as individuals, it is their morals that tell whether or not they have to obey the law themselves. The position of power they are put in doesn't help either, as knuxrouge stated.

The Police watch over us, but who watches over the Police?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Good point.

Well, the Police Chief watches over the police. Not to teach them what's wrong or right or applying more discipline to them, but by backing them up whenever they make a mistake.

So yes, in a way they are, it's just more like watching their backs after mistakes are made than preventing mistakes before they happen.

 

[thesage]

I don't think the police on simply on a power trip. I mean, think about what their job entails:

Investigate suicides/murders
Arrest people doing dumb things
Inform family members of their death
Deal with gangs
Posses a firearm the majority of the time
Getting paid a paltry amount of money
Long work hours
Spending most of your time with other messed up people like you
You have almost no other career options
You see the underside of civilization and no matter how hard you try it never goes away
Everywhere you go, nobody wants to see you

It sucks being a cop.

I think these people are just messed up in the head dealing with what they have to see almost everyday.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

You're playing the "messed up in the head" card?

What?

Are you saying cops are insane? Cops know exactly what they're doing, and to be a cop you can't be insane.
Imagine if an undercover cop was "messed up in the head." A true undercover cop. They'd be trying to discover the start of a drug trafficking organization or infiltrating a gang, and if someone was insane that wouldn't work out.

I guess it sucks to be a cop in some ways, but that doesn't make them insane.

 

[RDK]

I like this topic.

I also hate cops. The government's job is to protect me from other people, and vice versa. Not to pick on and bully people.

Cops should be afraid of us, as should the government; not the other way around. America is one of the only democracies where the people are afraid of their government. Just look at any other country with a similar government system (for starters: France, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, etc.). In all of these examples, it is truly the people who make the decisions, not politicians.

Whenever you have an efficient government, you have a dictatorship.

 

[Crimson King]

I don't think the police on simply on a power trip. I mean, think about what their job entails:

Posses a firearm the majority of the time
Getting paid a paltry amount of money
Long work hours
Spending most of your time with other messed up people like you
You have almost no other career options

Those seem like **** good reasons to power-trip to me.

 

[L666]

U.S. presidents have done worse. F*** the president.
This one time, this one person killed this other person. F*** people.

 

[Crimson King]

Yeah, you won't last here much longer.

 

[L666]

Yeah, you won't last here much longer.

I assume you mean this in the bad way. Such is life.

 

[thesage]

You're playing the "messed up in the head" card?

What?

Are you saying cops are insane? Cops know exactly what they're doing, and to be a cop you can't be insane.
Imagine if an undercover cop was "messed up in the head." A true undercover cop. They'd be trying to discover the start of a drug trafficking organization or infiltrating a gang, and if someone was insane that wouldn't work out.

I guess it sucks to be a cop in some ways, but that doesn't make them insane.

I'm not saying their insane. I'm saying that due to the fact that their job puts them through a lot of stress/emotional distress, it makes it much easier for them to fly off the handle.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Lots of jobs put people under stress.

Teachers are under stress, they have to deal with annoying kids and aren't allowed to use corporal punishment, but I don't hear about them going on killing sprees.

The President is under a lot of stress, but I don't see Obama starting nuclear wars.

I could go on and on, almost all jobs put people under stress.

 

[Cheapless Jared]

Lots of jobs put people under stress.

Teachers are under stress, they have to deal with annoying kids and aren't allowed to use corporal punishment, but I don't hear about them going on killing sprees.

The President is under a lot of stress, but I don't see Obama starting nuclear wars.

I could go on and on, almost all jobs put people under stress.

Really every job on the planet has to have a little stress in it.

 

[Nysyarc]

I think if you're a trained police officer you should be able to keep your emotions in check while you're on the job. My uncle is a police officer (he has a desk job now but he worked the streets for 10 years), so I know how tough the job is. Still, if they have the nerve to proclaim themselves our 'guardians' and hold themselves above us as individuals... well I would hope that they live up to that expectation.

Unfortunately, they don't.

Tasers. I absolutely hate the fact that cops are now permitted to use tasers. Here is one of many reasons why:

An elderly asian man (Japanese I believe), close to 60 years old, was stuck in airport in British Columbia, Canada a few months ago. He was trying to get a flight back to Japan (I think, or South Korea, I can't remember) to see his son. He was an honest man with no criminal record. He could only speak his native language though, and everyone at the airport only spoke English and French. He tried to find a translator or anyone who could help him for 8 hours in the airport. Eventually he lost his temper, as you can imagine, and started picking up and throwing metal chairs (not at people, just at walls/the floor).

Airport security approached him, but could not understand or get near him, so they called the Police. The Police arrived and handcuffed the struggling man, then brought him to a windowless room with a single camera in the corner. Four police officers entered the room after him, and tried to calm him down. The man was yelling the whole time. After a minute, one police officer lunged forward and tasered the man, and then tasered him a second time after he fell to the floor from the first shock. The man fell unconscious and was taken to hospital. He died in hospital that night.

At no point could this handcuffed, 60 year old man have been a threat to four young police officers. It simply is not possible. They could have easily gotten a translator and dealt with the situation humanely. The police officers were not charged with any crime (even though they killed the unarmed, helpless man), but were suspended from duty for three months (the one who actually tasered the man was suspended longer I believe, but I don't know how long).

I searched but could not find the actual article for this incident, if any of you want me to confirm it, I can search some more (I read about it in my local newspaper, not on the web).

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I think if you're a trained police officer you should be able to keep your emotions in check while you're on the job. My uncle is a police officer (he has a desk job now but he worked the streets for 10 years), so I know how tough the job is. Still, if they have the nerve to proclaim themselves our 'guardians' and hold themselves above us as individuals... well I would hope that they live up to that expectation.

Unfortunately, they don't.

Tasers. I absolutely hate the fact that cops are now permitted to use tasers. Here is one of many reasons why:

An elderly asian man (Japanese I believe), close to 60 years old, was stuck in airport in British Columbia, Canada a few months ago. He was trying to get a flight back to Japan (I think, or South Korea, I can't remember) to see his son. He was an honest man with no criminal record. He could only speak his native language though, and everyone at the airport only spoke English and French. He tried to find a translator or anyone who could help him for 8 hours in the airport. Eventually he lost his temper, as you can imagine, and started picking up and throwing metal chairs (not at people, just at walls/the floor).

Airport security approached him, but could not understand or get near him, so they called the Police. The Police arrived and handcuffed the struggling man, then brought him to a windowless room with a single camera in the corner. Four police officers entered the room after him, and tried to calm him down. The man was yelling the whole time. After a minute, one police officer lunged forward and tasered the man, and then tasered him a second time after he fell to the floor from the first shock. The man fell unconscious and was taken to hospital. He died in hospital that night.

At no point could this handcuffed, 60 year old man have been a threat to four young police officers. It simply is not possible. They could have easily gotten a translator and dealt with the situation humanely. The police officers were not charged with any crime (even though they killed the unarmed, helpless man), but were suspended from duty for three months (the one who actually tasered the man was suspended longer I believe, but I don't know how long).

I searched but could not find the actual article for this incident, if any of you want me to confirm it, I can search some more (I read about it in my local newspaper, not on the web).

Wow, that story is just ridiculous.

A 60 year old man? Really?
That's just outrageous, the police couldn't have possibly thought he was a threat. They could have gotten a translator on the spot, and calmly walked the man out of that terminal to speak with the translator.

They probably just got frustrated though, but that's another problem.

Police need to keep their emotions in check, that's how a lot of these incidents occur.

If they could just calm themselves down and not let themselves get out of control, many of these incidents wouldn't happen, but some still would.

There isn't really a good solution to deal with this problem.

 

[2001]

I hate people that hate police for no reason. Unless you have been wrongly assualted, beaten, tased, shot, incarcerated, or anything else related to the law, you have nothing against police. Getting your skateboard taken away or getting a parking ticket doesn't count. They have been protecting you and keeping you safe and should be thanking them.

Not all police are corrupt. Does the south still have racist pockets of populations and cops? Definately. Does that mean all cops are wrong? No, it's an underlooked stereotype. If you have anything against police, it should be against a single officer at most.

 

[RDK]

I hate people that hate police for no reason. Unless you have been wrongly assualted, beaten, tased, shot, incarcerated, or anything else related to the law, you have nothing against police. Getting your skateboard taken away or getting a parking ticket doesn't count. They have been protecting you and keeping you safe and should be thanking them.

Protecting me? From what? Skateboard punks and people going 10 MPH over the speed limit in areas that should have higher speed limits anyway?

Gimme a break.

 

[2001]

Wow you are a perfect example of my statement. Lets put it this way. In a world with no cops, people would walk around with guns, people could care less about going 50mph around a school, drug dealers could feel safe at home on the streets, and robbery would be a habit for some people. Crime would be common occurance.

The chances of a cop throwing you face on the ground and shooting you in the back, is not something that happens everyday. You act like the police are out to get you. They're not.

All people make bad decisions. Saying all cops are bad because one shot an innocent person is like saying all professional football players are terrible at sports because one dropped a pass. I know the two examples are more or less serious than another but what im trying to say is, very very few cops are corrupted.

 

[RDK]

Wow you are a perfect example of my statement. Lets put it this way. In a world with no cops, people would walk around with guns, people could care less about going 50mph around a school, drug dealers could feel safe at home on the streets, and robbery would be a habit for some people. Crime would be common occurance.

Notice how I never advocated getting rid of all cops.

The chances of a cop throwing you face on the ground and shooting you in the back, is not something that happens everyday. You act like the police are out to get you. They're not.

The fact that this does happen, nevermind how irregular it may be, should be cause enough to realize that the system needs to be changed. There's reason to be afraid of cops when they start throwing anybody on the ground and shooting them in the back.

This is an obvious abuse of power and it is not what we have policemen for.

All people make bad decisions. Saying all cops are bad because one shot an innocent person is like saying all professional football players are terrible at sports because one dropped a pass. I know the two examples are more or less serious than another but what im trying to say is, very very few cops are corrupted.

I never said all cops are bad because some make bad choices; my point is that it shouldn't be allowed to happen. Just like a football coach wouldn't say all players are horrible and just give up, but would strive to fix the problem at its root.

 

[Ryan Ludovic]

You're playing the "messed up in the head" card?

What?

Are you saying cops are insane? Cops know exactly what they're doing, and to be a cop you can't be insane.
Imagine if an undercover cop was "messed up in the head." A true undercover cop. They'd be trying to discover the start of a drug trafficking organization or infiltrating a gang, and if someone was insane that wouldn't work out.

I guess it sucks to be a cop in some ways, but that doesn't make them insane.

Generalization :[

Not all cops are 'insane'
Not all cops are 'sane'
Well, I could be wrong.
Cop Kicks Suspect in Head For Not Resisting Arrest

Cops are not allowed to be insane, world leaders are not allowed to be powerhungry, etc..
Not all are, but some abuse their power, and they are not punished. They wind up with a paid vacation, and a nice umbrella to hide under while the news stories blow over.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I know that, I agree with you...

 

[LLDL]

The thing is, we don't really have a choice BUT to 'trust' the police. If we couldnt trust law enforcement, then who do we have that aren't family or friends? I beleive that those crooked police officers are abundant, but you have to realize that there are also alot of trustworthy, helpful and kind cops too. If it weren't for them, crime would be in full force, so we can't let a few mishaps get in teh way of our judging them as a whole.

 

[Nysyarc]

so we can't let a few mishaps get in teh way of our judging them as a whole.

Oh of course not. We'll judge every last one of them in spite of those few mishaps

In all seriousness though, I do kind of agree with what you're saying. I do think, however, that some changes should be made to the current system. Because as far as I'm concerned, we shouldn't have a reason to distrust any cops, ever... but we do.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Changes definitely have to be made to our current system.

The Police system as a whole is supposed to be trustworthy and helpful to society, not a group of some good people but also many corrupt individuals that are detrimental to the mission of the police, which is more or less to protect people and keep order throughout the country.

Now, we have even a good reason to distrust cops, because of things that they've done.

I know that these "mishaps" are few and far between, and that not all cops are bad, but the system needs to do a better job rooting out the bad cops in the system before they cause any "mishaps."

 

[Crimson King]

Another example of why police are evil: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/20/alabama.police.beating/index.html

Advocates for this type of behavior cite that the criminal hit a cop first. Cops do not equal civilians. Police are making sacrifices to defend and uphold the law, and they are in a position where they have to protect and SERVE the citizens regardless if they break the law or not. As soon as the man hit the ground, and I didn't see him move too much, a cop hit him and the rest jumped on him and started pounding away. This is sick, perverse, and definitely evil.

I saw this posted about the story:

The man swerved in traffic while alluding a man (cop) that he said earlier had showed him no police id, was not in uniform and was in an unmarked car and that is when he ran over that other cops foot.
That is why he was trying to get away. He said that he had no clue that man was a cop.

Later, this person said that, originally, when the beaten man sued to the cops his attorney was given a version of the tape that did not have the beating. When he asked for the original version, it was on there. They edited it out, which proves they knew what they did was wrong.

 

[Marc]

It’s hard to be in the right when you’re generalizing. Listing individual cases of power abuse is meaningless when we don’t know how much of an impact it has on the population. Emotional evidence seems compelling, but it’s a bit of a parlor trick.

Mistakes are made wherever people are involved. Distrust isn’t something governed by law (not to mention it’s impossible)... you have a “right” to distrust everyone. I’d go as far as saying you should distrust everyone to a certain extent. Even when people are meaning well, there are many factors influencing their judgement. People often aren’t even aware of biases or logical fallacies they might be employing.

Power abuse should be punished severely and I believe it’s in everyone’s best interest to do so. It’s obvious why citizens are harmed by it, but it can also compromise a case against a criminal and damage the (already questionable) reputation the police has.

My personal stance on the police is neutral. They can be petty, but I do believe we need them. We don’t have many incidents of police crossing the line over here, which of course colors my judgement.

 

[AltF4]

I get what you're saying, CK. I get really fired up when i see YouTube videos of police brutality. In fact, I think YouTube is an excellent tool for making these kinds of abuses public. More people should carry video cameras on them (especially at places where you know there will be police presence.) We should absolutely be distrustful of the police. We should be distrustful of anyone with power.

But what, exactly, can we do to help the situation? What would you propose to not eliminate (which is presumably impossible) but subdue abuses of power by police? I guess YouTube is an effective tool. Maybe stricter penalties? I don't know.

It's especially hard when the abuses are not individual police officers having a bad day, but official police policy. Like the illegal stop and search stations near the Mexican border. (Don't know if you've seen the videos associated with those)

 

[.Marik]

I agree with several people in this thread, particularly RDK and Crimson King.

Power changes a person, often for the worse. Emotions are extremely difficult to keep intact, and sometimes... corruption within the judicial system happens.

As a victim of police brutality myself, let me state that cops allow emotions and irrationality to get in their way of thinking. I'm from an extremely bad neighbourhood, and the majority of it are Sri Lankans and African-Americans. I'm white, so picture a white kid walking with several black kids, at night. Does that mean they can detain us and use the phone book technique? No, it doesn't.

Of course, I shouldn't assume all cops are bad. But guess what? Cops also shouldn't assume that people are notorious criminals just because of a first impression or skin colour.

Face it, people are flawed, and to entrust them with the power and mentality then can get away with crimes they're supposed to be preventing... you get crooked cops.

F*ck tha Police.

 

[pacmansays]

I too get quite angered when I see videos of police brutality and my reason is because these people were given power and responsibility in order to protect people and are abusing it.

As mentioned power can change a person, though i'd like to believe power doesn't always corrupt often it can and unfortuanately that's an awful thing.

I think the right thing to do is to give police enough power needed and not giving them power they don't. Here in the UK the police do not carry guns and despite there being less citizens with guns here the police are able to still dissolve situations here without resorting to them. I for one am slightly apprehensive of the introduction of tasers into the UK police force after a video online showed police here tasering a drunk man, already on the ground three times (Why three?) and then one police officer was seen to be kicking the person.

We have to be careful that we give the people protecting us enough so they can do there job and so we can feel safe around them.