EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[Dyna]

How do you guys recover against Ganon from high above after getting stomped or something?

I feel like his u-air can just eat all of my bombs and trying to come from the side might get me KOed. Are there any other options I'm not aware of?



Don't get too comfortable, you might be good at Smash but I'm a champ at Cooking Mama 3. And I'm not about to let some girl top my culinary expertise.

Try always to make time with bombs and try to D-Air, what helps incredibly is to use U-Air, that has a weird priority over a lot of attacks, and well, I've played against Ganondorf for eight years.

 

[resTy]

Defensive Samus >>>>> Aggressive Samus.
Discuss . . .

Although, this may already be /thread XD.

 

[Dyna]

Defensive Samus >>>>> Aggressive Samus.
Discuss . . .

Although, this may already be /thread XD.

I am going to say something not many people can agree with.

Being fancy, aggressive and interesting is the only way to really have fun in this game, to be completely defensive and campy is for Brawlers, not for Smashers.

We can be aggressive and fancy because the game let us do it, and as long as the game can lead to new and interesting maneuvers, I'll keep doing it, I don't care if that's my demise against defensive players (there are a lot of strategies against defensive players, such as powershield>>dash>wavedash>powershield>>dash>>wavedash>>grab/anything).

As long as the game is fun I'll keep being aggressive, TO MY EYES, that's the best thing one can do in Melee.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

most players I know play defensively.

They camp but do it aggressively, like DD'ing right outside your range, baiting attacks with whiffed aerials out of your range, and generally being a nuisance while you try to approach.

It's camping but the pace of the game is still incredibly quick and not at all like brawl.

 

[melt87]

@ Dyna: There is difference between "campy" and "defensive". A defensive Samus can still be fancy and interesting and imho Samus is not suited to aggressive fight

 

[Dyna]

@ Dyna: There is difference between "campy" and "defensive". A defensive Samus can still be fancy and interesting and imho Samus is not suited to aggressive fight

But -most- defensive players are campy.

Samus is really suited for aggressive fight, reaaaally suited for that, she's very underlooked in that skill, in fact, that's the only true way for beating Marth and Sheik, not letting them attack ¿How? You might ask. Pressure, bombs, tilts, active edgeguarding, not just with missiles and such, well, those help, but as decoy.

It's not fun playing safe, being risky is what brings juice to the game. When I play against someone that is just from far away camping with missiles or with SHB, it's just so boring, I can deal with it in Melee, in fact, that lead me to perfect my ability to do power shield anytime.

 

[melt87]

But -most- defensive players are campy.
Pressure, bombs, tilts, active edgeguarding, not just with missiles and such, well, those help, but as decoy.

Yes, but Samus can't do all these things in an aggressive way, spamming attacks like C.Falcon. You have to be careful, Samus is slow, in midair she moves in slow motion. That's why you can't be aggressive like other characters, Samus has her own way. (i'm not telling you "i play safe, i'm better than you" XD)

It's not fun playing safe, being risky is what brings juice to the game.

To me the best thing about Smash is searching the best move to do in a precise moment. The best achievement with the minimal effort.

Also sorry for my bad english :x

 

[Dyna]

Yes, but Samus can't do all these things in an aggressive way, spamming attacks like C.Falcon. You have to be careful, Samus is slow, in midair she moves in slow motion. That's why you can't be aggressive like other characters, Samus has her own way. (i'm not telling you "i play safe, i'm better than you" XD)



To me the best thing about Smash is searching the best move to do in a precise moment. The best achievement with the minimal effort.

Also sorry for my bad english :x

Do not worry, english isn't my native language either.
Samus CAN spam attacks in a similar fashion as Captain Falcon or Fox, I am not joking, Samus' F-Air is a critical move that can lead to many things, including a grab, and you can spam that attack with SH as fast as you can.

Also, her aerial game is the most important thing, you can also spam B-Air, and N-Air is good for spacing as the move lasts long similar to Link's N-Air.
One has to be careful not to leave open spots, if your pressure is good, you can make a C.Falcon roll away from you, and that's the point, Dash Attach into U-Tilt can lead into a Charged Beam.

Once, a guy nicknamed "Toti" came to Acapulco, and I played with him, I want to note that his C.Falcon was really good, but with proper pressure I managed to break his defense with Jab cancel>>D-Air>>Bomb Dash>>reversed Jab>>D-Air>>Bomb Dash.

Requires a lot of "clackclackclackclack" with your controller in order to become truly aggressive, not standard aggressive, but truly aggressive.

I also can agree with people that there are certain moments in which you cannot attack directly, for example, when you have been knocked off from an attack and your opponent is Ganon, Marth or C.Falcon, you cannot attack recklessly either, projectiles help me as a decoy, I make them destroy them, and I take that as an open spot to attack, almost always works, also, make them dodge them, it's always a chance.

What I have been implementing, is to always have the Extended Grapple Beam, you can do this very easily from the very beginning of the match, a missed grab, or a SHFF Grapple Beam, that helps you as a second option for tech chasing, for example, Samus Jab cancel is a great pressure and only some attacks from defense can break it, so, most players roll, could be backwards or forward, you just dash-grab and keep the L pressed, and press A anytime, they will be grabbed as long as their animation is over, and I have proved this to work, you can also do a SH N-Air as soon as you know they will jump out of your Jab cancel, so you don't let them move or escape, it's about having always the lead, to think fast and have a solid metagame in all circumstances.

Don't get me wrong, if any of you guys is defensive/campy, I respect your style, if that works to you, keep doing it.

Of course, all of this isn't perfect, there isn't a definitive technique with Samus against anyone, for example, 1233 found a way to break my Jab Cancel with Fox's U-Smash out of the shield, so, that forced me to stay sharp about it and to power shield that move into something else. I love Melee.

Being aggressive always works to me, and I also recall HugS having this to work once against Eddie's Ganon, forcing him to switch, he told me once about this.

I'm glad we are talking about Samus again, kind of gets me inspired.

 

[melt87]

I'm glad we are talking about Samus again, kind of gets me inspired.

I would be happier if you start again playing tournaments so i could watch some recent stuff about you :X

Seriously, it would be wonderful to see you on the competitive scene again XD

 

[Dyna]

I would be happier if you start again playing tournaments so i could watch some recent stuff about you :X

Seriously, it would be wonderful to see you on the competitive scene again XD

xD That was cute.
But I'm afraid I cannot do it as of now, I had many reasons of dropping the competitive scene, but I will try to get friendly matches as soon as possible.

 

[melt87]

What a pity =(

 

[Dyna]

Even if it's against my own principles, for years I've been thinking about making a tutorial... but I don't know...

 

[melt87]

A tutorial about Samus? What's the problem?

 

[Dyna]

A tutorial about Samus? What's the problem?

Well, I'm a selfish person, giving out so many "inside tips" is usually something I keep only for me and Samus mainers.
I always felt that keeping those "tips" for only some eyes would lead to elite players, because I know the strategies I know do work, and work very good, releasing this info "to the world" in a video feels weird, but lately I've been thinking into really doing it.

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

acapulco *****
my birthplace

this talk about defensive/offensive
idgaf
i just play

i think defensive samus is a strong standard
i think samus can be very offensive, but it requires a lot of good prediction and junk
it's early right now
i'm half awake
so i'm not gonna go into detail or w/e
have fun you guys

 

[resTy]

Aggro = More Fun.
Campy = More Win.
More discuss . . .

 

[HugS™]

AY! I have crazy fun playing the way I do. Like, you don't understand how much fun I have.

Unless I'm a bit inebriated, then I start playing like Wes.

Though Alukard made me realize I need to pick up the aggression on Ganon/Marth.
I'll probably shout him out on the podcast I'm about to do for giving me that info.

 

[Geist]

Is it just me or do a lot of Samus players pick up Ganon as a secondary?

On topic, there's been a big change in numbers between offensive Samus' vs. defensive Samus' since 06/07, at least that I've noticed.
If I had to say which playstyle was better, I wouldn't be able to give a straight answer. But with most characters, I think the situation should call for how you play. I dunno. I'm a fence sitter.

I remember old vids of you Hugs, and at a certain point you started playing much more agressively. I think you said something about a turning point too, but I can't remember what it was all about.

I think that a Samus tutorial would be pretty sweet Dyna.
There was an old one, I think it's only on google vids called something like 'the bomb the foot and the missile' or something like that, but it was pretty basic from what I remember. Taking it a step further with like an advanced tutorial would be sweet.

 

[resTy]

I secondary Fox or Doc.
I use Fox more but my Doc is better than my Fox.
So I dunno which one is my real secondary . . .

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

I actually used Fox successfully in tourney this weekend when BigR went PokeFloats on me.

 

[Alukard]

i play everyone as a secondary .. but thats because playing with the people i play with we totally learn a character within a month of playing lolol ... 1 smashfest at pc's house... or just playing a whole night of doubles with jman G$ vanz etc. its pretty easy to learn a new character LOL ...

@dyna ... no johns ***** come back to the melee competitive scene ... <33

@abrazos (hugs) ... i think the marth and ganon matchup is soooo bad ... i'd rather fight sheiks lolol ... BUT theres soooo much we aren't doing in that match up that we should all start talkin about =]

 

[resTy]

I feel as though Samus vs. Ganon is unwinnable if you and the Ganon player are on the same level.
That dude can just keep throwing well-spaced aerials at you and it feels like an unstoppable wall.

 

[Alukard]

I feel as though Samus vs. Ganon is unwinnable if you and the Ganon player are on the same level.
That dude can just keep throwing well-spaced aerials at you and it feels like an unstoppable wall.

theres sooo many ways to bait and punish with samus its not even funny ... imo thats the best part about her ... i mean he is slo so u WILL get alot of charge shots filled up ... bait and punish an aerial with it ... i mean thats just off the top of my head ... think positive peeps =\

 

[Geist]

i play everyone as a secondary .. but thats because playing with the people i play with we totally learn a character within a month of playing lolol

Yeah lol I play everyone but Roy, Ness and ICs.

Samus vs. Ganon is nasty but I find it really fun. Not like Sheik.
The only good Ganon I've ever played was Kage. He's immune to spacing he just Fairs you

 

[Alukard]

Yeah lol I play everyone but Roy, Ness and ICs.

Samus vs. Ganon is nasty but I find it really fun. Not like Sheik.
The only good Ganon I've ever played was Kage. He's immune to spacing he just Fairs you

see thats one of the problems that i think a lot of samus players have ... they think they can only play a certain way ... u CAN play differently u know ... u dont have to space ftilts and jabs on EVERY character lol ... i'm just saying he is slow u have alot of projectiles also edge guarding him is a cake walk ...(granted i usually mess up cuz i want to do soooo many cool things to edgeguard lolol)

i will however agree that its really really hard to beat him without platforms ... imo samus isn't very good without plat forms vs sheik marth ganon

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

I love the Ganon matchup. It definitely requires an aggro style though, just staying back and being patient won't really net you any openings, and trying to out-space him just sounds like it would turn into a war of attrition, which you will lose.

 

[resTy]

I forgot how to play aggressive.
Perhaps I should relearn -_-

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

i have a standard style that i change up depending on the match up/player

i don't know about secondaries
i play a ganon that's good vs peaches for some reason (they suck?)
i also play roy sometimes

btw hugo is gay
he chaingrabbed my roy with his ganon
**** you hugo!

 

[Dyna]

I feel as though Samus vs. Ganon is unwinnable if you and the Ganon player are on the same level.
That dude can just keep throwing well-spaced aerials at you and it feels like an unstoppable wall.

¿Unwinnable? ¿what are you talking about? xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=lST8V1R0TCQ&feature=related

Fortunately, I have guys like him as training, it's not unwinnable, just too hard.

Aggro = More Fun.
Campy = More Win.
More discuss . . .

Campy is a half-done strategy, watch the video above, you'll understand many things.
1233 uber kills any kind of Samus, the only kind that can put a fight is Aggro-style.
Aggro is complete, in Melee, of course, enables you the option to be fun, and to deliver destruction.
If you are talking about Brawl, then your analogy is perfect.

 

[resTy]

Has 1233 ever fought HugS?
That dude plays pure defense . . .
Are there any defensive Samus players in your region?
A lot of Samus mains I've watched from Central/South America tend to be overly aggressive.
Also, have you ever competed in the states before?
It's gay as hell; people play to win and that means camping.

The reason I'm very bias about aggressive-styles is because there is only one good Samus player who plays aggressive and that's Ihavespaceballs.

 

[Dyna]

Has 1233 ever fought HugS?
That dude plays pure defense . . .
Are there any defensive Samus players in your region?
A lot of Samus mains I've watched from Central/South America tend to be overly aggressive.
Also, have you ever competed in the states before?
It's gay as hell; people play to win and that means camping.

The reason I'm very bias about aggressive-styles is because there is only one good Samus player who plays aggressive and that's Ihavespaceballs.

1233 has fought every Samus in México (I mean the entire country), and many of them are veeeery defensive, like, really, super defensive.

But thanks to me and Kukai (we are the only local Samus mainers), 1233 gained enough matchup knowledge to deliver ownage.
1233 has never ever fought HugS as of yet, I remember HugS telling me once in the Hub, that 1233 was scary, he won't let me lie, unless he doesn't remember, but that was a flattery for 1233, which motivated him to keep maining Ganondorf.

I have not competed in US.

¿Central/South America?
¿What do you mean? xD
Central America is like, Belize, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Panama, Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and I never heard about players from there, and South America is Chile, Venezuela, Colombia, Argentina, Peru, now those countries have players, not as overly aggressive like Mexicans, but they are very good.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Considering the recent events, I hope there weren't any Pikachu mains in Chile, that **** is super effective.

 

[Dyna]

Considering the recent events, I hope there weren't any Pikachu mains in Chile, that **** is super effective.

xD
I don't know of any Pikachu mainers in Chile, I think every Smasher from there survived the Earthquake and the aftershocks.

 

[Alukard]

Has 1233 ever fought HugS?
That dude plays pure defense . . .
Are there any defensive Samus players in your region?
A lot of Samus mains I've watched from Central/South America tend to be overly aggressive.
Also, have you ever competed in the states before?
It's gay as hell; people play to win and that means camping.

The reason I'm very bias about aggressive-styles is because there is only one good Samus player who plays aggressive and that's Ihavespaceballs.

gee thanks ...

 

[xbombr]

Samus needs aggression to run her defense successfully.

You can't sit back the whole game and expect to win unless you're playing overly aggressive, bad Falcos or something.

 

[resTy]

gee thanks ...

Forgot about mah boi.
Sorry, ninja.

 

[Alukard]

Forgot about mah boi.
Sorry, ninja.

<33 lol

ayo spacenutz ... which samus did u watch when u started trying to get better ?

dyna same question for u too cutie

 

[Dyna]

<33 lol

ayo spacenutz ... which samus did u watch when u started trying to get better ?

dyna same question for u too cutie

I watched Captain Jack, he served as my inspiration to get better with Samus.

 

[Alukard]

I watched Captain Jack, he served as my inspiration to get better with Samus.

thats a pretty interesting person ... usually the styles u watch are the styles u pick up... hence why i am flashy + creative ... thats all WES lolol

 

[Dyna]

thats a pretty interesting person ... usually the styles u watch are the styles u pick up... hence why i am flashy + creative ... thats all WES lolol

Well, I just used CJ as a reference, I was like: "Yeah, that's it!", and I started to create my own thing afterwards.