EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[ycz12]

Landed it again today. The combo only works if Puff DIs away, of course, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't a true combo at around 70%-ish in that case. It comes out pretty fast. I mean, d-throw to d-air is a combo, and b-air comes out a lot faster than d-air.

If she DIs in you just jump forward and b-air, if she doesn't DI then... I don't think you can land a sweetspot b-air.

 

[GoomySmash]

So here's the swaggiest thing ever, and I think at certain percents with certain DI it can be a guaranteed kill setup on spacies
1.) Get extendurrr
2.) Do a super duper wavedash facing away from the stage (as in superwavedash and then immediately shield grab)
3.) Press L on the extender and grab someone from behind you on the stage or on a side platform
4.) You should be facing away from the stage with the opponent in your grasp
5.) Downthrow then run off -> dropzone chargeblast / run off -> neutral air
(Alternatively you can just let them break out of the grab instead of downthrowing them, which can put you in a pretty good edgeguarding position if they don't see it coming)

It's actually surprisingly easy to get, because barely anyone predicts the combination of the superwavedash and reverse extender. If someone's on the platform on the other side of the stage, and they're not paying enough attention, they can get grabbed on the platform from the homing extender.

Another fun thing is that depending on the DI of the space animal after you downthrow -> run off neutral air it'll stage spike them immediately.

 

[343]

@ ycz12 I liked your extender usage yesterday, but I think at some point when you've conditioned your opponent to jump a lot you should just start taking space while he tries to dodge extender

 

[abcool]

Guys. Yesterday I did a d-throw > dash > pivot > short hop > sweetspot b-air to kill a Puff at like 70% on Yoshi's. It was amazing.

I discovered this VS Peach the other day, its amazing everytime you guys discover an AT I happen to have already used and documented it. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxKxoSL9hEo&feature=player_detailpage#t=349

 

[JerkPhil]

That was a Dthrow --> dash attack --> turn around --> short hop --> Bair. No dash --> pivot

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

While you are the focus on your opponents attention, you should NEVER approach, if their attention is shifted away by actively approaching themselves, or a few other situational factors, then it is permissible to approach your opponent... i was just making a point to 343

that's some dbz advice right there

While I understand your sentiments, I think you would be giving up a lot of opportunities to gain better positioning if you operate under the assumption that it's not a good idea to approach.

Theoretically, it's best to bait your opponent into acting, no matter what you do. You always want the upper hand, and if you're reacting, or you let them freely choose which option they want, then you'll be reacting and you won't know if they're baiting you or not, giving them the upper hand. Does that make sense? I can try and explain if anyone wants.

Don't talk to me as if you are on another level, the game operates under the give an take of what both players understand the other will and can do, if you never approach, you cut off your options and make yourself predictable, while I understand your sentiments of explaining basic strategy, its not necessary, and your time would be better spent on other things.

yep, see, he's totally vegeta.

Again.. nothing you said was anything of substance, all you are doing is talking to hear yourself talk... . . . if your ego is so fragile.... . . . Please stop talking to me as if your input is even valued, all I have received from you are snide remarks and basic summations of exactly what I was already stating.

come on, he even picked a picture with a blue suit and blonde hair.

 

[abcool]

That was a Dthrow --> dash attack --> turn around --> short hop --> Bair. No dash --> pivot

What is a pivot then? A quick turn around is a pivot without dashing. I Dthrow > Dash attacked > pivot turn around(while peach is still in stun) to bair.

I am pretty sure if he showed his video it would be the samething.

I pretty much extended his combo, by adding the DA to keep Peach afloat, but that was a pivot bair.

 

[JerkPhil]

A pivot is done by dashing, then flicking the stick in the opposite direction. A pivot Bair is jumping in that pivot frame and Bairing.

Here's the first search results on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyYC19ciM20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyYC19ciM20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9DTEt1I5u8

 

[Litt]

that's some dbz advice right there
Theoretically, it's best to bait your opponent into acting, no matter what you do. You always want the upper hand, and if you're reacting, or you let them freely choose which option they want, then you'll be reacting and you won't know if they're baiting you or not, giving them the upper hand. Does that make sense? I can try and explain if anyone wants.
yep, see, he's totally vegeta.come on, he even picked a picture with a blue suit and blonde hair.

Hover in this analogy Corigames is Raditz the one time where Vegita is on top ;p

 

[343]

HUGO BEAT LEFFEN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJLNOi3IsUc

 

[abcool]

A pivot is done by dashing, then flicking the stick in the opposite direction. A pivot Bair is jumping in that pivot frame and Bairing.

Here's the first search results on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyYC19ciM20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9DTEt1I5u8

I know what a pivot is I mastered that back in lik 2008. I pivot Fsmash with ease as Samus, but either way, this combo was new and pretty close to his ideal of downthrow > bair technology. I just showed it can be used on Peach when grabbed at around 48%. An its like he said they need to be DI'ing back for it to work.

 

[Litt]

I know what a pivot is I mastered that back in lik 2008. I pivot Fsmash with ease as Samus, but either way, this combo was new and pretty close to his ideal of downthrow > bair technology. I just showed it can be used on Peach when grabbed at around 48%. An its like he said they need to be DI'ing back for it to work.

Except we were talking about puff and not peach... because dthrow against puff the DA wont connect... and YCZ was saying he was effectively able to dthrow into pivot bair to hit puff while still in stun

 

[343]

@ abcool I think the point is that you can't possibly hit puff with a backair off dthrow DI'd away unless you pivot (or maybe wd turnaround if the puff does absolutely nothing for like 20+ frames?)

 

[abcool]

Alright, so we can move on from this topic because I don't run on. He did a downthrow > pivot bair on Jiggs. Moving on. The Marth matchup is still pretty tough. How do you deal with dtilt?

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

Can we get a show of hands for everyone that knew dash attack->fsmash was a true combo on fox

https://youtu.be/eJUAm9eLEoc?t=12m34s

Alright, so we can move on this topic because I don't run out. He did a downthrow > pivot bair on Jiggs. Moving on. The Marth matchup is still pretty tough. How do you deal with dtilt?

if marth is choosing to space dtilt outspace him better with ftilt. If ftilt doesnt flat out beat dtilts range, I'm pretty sure it moves over the dtilt hitbox.

Alternatively, stand slightly out of his potential grab range (boost?, dash? and/or jc?) and wait for him to move. If he advances punish. If he retreats, move forward to take up space.

 

[abcool]

Can we get a show of hands for everyone that knew dash attack->fsmash was a true combo on fox

https://youtu.be/eJUAm9eLEoc?t=12m34s




if marth is choosing to space dtilt outspace him better with ftilt. If ftilt doesnt flat out beat dtilts range, I'm pretty sure it moves over the dtilt hitbox.

Alternatively, stand slightly out of his potential grab range (boost?, dash? and/or jc?) and wait for him to move. If he advances punish. If he retreats, move forward to take up space.

Thanks. I barely play this matchup so a few things had me completely lost.

 

[343]

The extender does some weird things I didn't know about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V7rZTEUNN0

and the above phenomenon (+ something else??) also froze my game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug4Rh-wgDfk

 

[ycz12]

Ooh, I don't think I've seen that reverse grab before. Neat stuff.

If you're playing on 20xx, I'd wager that's part of the cause of the freeze.

 

[343]

i'm playing NTSC version 1.02 on my gamecube, so no 20xx

 

[Corigames]

and the above phenomenon (+ something else??) also froze my game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug4Rh-wgDfk

In my experience of playing Melee with the extender for the past few years, I've only experienced two crashes. Both were caused by reverse grabs on the extender when the opponent was directly behind me. My suspicion was that they grabbed at the same time as the extender and that port priority might not apply (or correctly) leading to a lock-up, though I never extensively tested it tbh.

 

[343]

well, this was vs a lvl 1 computer iirc, so there's no way he would've been grabbing me

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

So I fought a falcon the other day who only sat on the other side of the stage and dd'd around. If I approached he just nair'd me.

If I try to cc->attack, he doesn't get hit because he covers with shield.

If I try to grab the shield, he jumps oos.

If I try to cover his jump oos with aerial oos, he stays in shield (he's reacting to the grab instead of committing to jump).

Any body have ideas on approaches or counters for this situation?

 

[JerkPhil]

Run in and wavebomb his shield? If he's only expecting a grab, you better mix it up

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

Any body have ideas on approaches or counters for this situation?

uair

jk

nair him back

 

[343]

try missiling more?

also, if you expect him to dd nair you, try punishing it with wd back -> tilt / smash, or try shielding it -> upb or wd ftilt oos if he misspaces. shield in general should be pretty powerful if he's insisting on dd nairing rather than dd grabbing.

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

@ JerkPhil Bomb pressure is next on the list of tech skill to practice. Thanks for the tip!

@ 343 I've usually been told not to missile falcon so much since his range is so big. I think I'm going to try it next time because I started doing it later in the match and forced some reactions.

 

[343]

yes, falcon's range is big, but if he's dashdance camping the other side of the stage, forcing him to come to you (or at least breaking up his dashdance rhythm) with missiles could be good

 

[Lock]

This may be a bit simple, but would anyone happen to know how to walljump consistently off of non-sweetspot grapple? It seems to me like the walljump just randomly fails sometimes or often, whether or not we hold towards the stage, and from a variety of different angles/momentums. I and other Samuses seem to miss the walljump on grapple-under-BF all the time as well, which is usually the difference between life and stock loss there.

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

I think its common to walljump to early. You only have to be touching the wall, but I used to try and jump the moment the tether pulled me in.

The timing can be tricky--- because of the shape of battlefields wall, if you do it too late you won't be touching the wall anymore (since it slopes in) and therefore won't jump.

 

[Icyo]

Does dash dance have any use in the neutral?

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

It's like a shorter, faster, less committal wave dash--- it has a bit of value. I'm fond of getting into wd ftilt distance with dd and then doing the wd out of dash. Being able to short dash dance retreat/approach is valuable for spacing.

I've seen Hugs and Darrel pivot ftilt out of dd, which is kind of a ridiculously good spacing option.

 

[ycz12]

This may be a bit simple, but would anyone happen to know how to walljump consistently off of non-sweetspot grapple? It seems to me like the walljump just randomly fails sometimes or often, whether or not we hold towards the stage, and from a variety of different angles/momentums. I and other Samuses seem to miss the walljump on grapple-under-BF all the time as well, which is usually the difference between life and stock loss there.

Battlefield is funky because there are a couple of different spots on the bottom thingy which behave very differently with respect to grapple-walljump. If you grapple the main middle section the timing is relatively easy, and is easier the lower you go; however, go too low and you get pineappled and die, or go really low and end up walljumping back and forth underneath the stage.

On the other hand, you can also grapple too high, which hits a different wall and makes the timing really hard if not impossible. Sometimes your grapple will even break while you're falling, which is bad news. The good news, though, is that you can always make it to the ledge without walljumping. If your opponent doesn't know the timing on the edgehog, you can just drift back and up-B to the ledge.

 

[ManoxMano]

I think Barbie made a picture of battlefield in regards to this question before so search this thread if you want to find specifics.

 

[ycz12]

I think Barbie made a picture of battlefield in regards to this question before so search this thread if you want to find specifics.

This is the only one I could find, was there something else? http://smashboards.com/attachments/battlefield-png.4784/

 

[Litt]

I think Barbie made a picture of battlefield in regards to this question before so search this thread if you want to find specifics.

:o I did?! That was nice of me xD

 

[Litt]

This is the only one I could find, was there something else? http://smashboards.com/attachments/battlefield-png.4784/

Ah yeah thats just the point from which you can no longer wall jump, all points beneath it until the other crest point you can wj off of, you need to do the wj line up the DI towards the wall you want to jump off of, then at contact do perpendicular to the angle of the wall from which you want to wj has always worked for me

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

Can you di in on a crouch cancel?

 

[343]

crouch cancel is a combination of crouching when hit + ASDI down. ASDI is read on the last frame of hitlag. Trajectory DI starts being calculated on the first frame of hitstun (i.e. immediately after hitlag.) So you could hold down until the end of hitlag, then start holding in immediately afterward. If you do it frame perfectly you'll get maximum TDI in, I guess?

 

[BBOY15]

A few days ago, I was playing against my friend who was Sheik. I grabbed Sheik on the middle of battlefield, then I thought I inputted a down throw. But Sheik glitched out and my grapple threw sheik to the right side of the stage, where sheik pretty much instantly grabbed the ledge. Basically, I grabbed sheik in the middle of battlefield, and thew her right into a ledge-grab. How did this happen??? Almost sure I didn't have the extender activated.

 

[Spazzy]

Guys help me, teach me how to play defensive with Samus and different defensive options. I'm always just approaching with missles and up-b OoS for defense. What should I do?