Now, that I've been Ninja'd: Chibo is correct. The "plans" at this point, should not be used. Of course, at this point I wouldn't trust your claim unless I had a comparison. So, I'm down with classic scum hunting. However, I do not believe you can gauge scumminess on mafia theory. This is mafia theory. (Strats, crunching numbers, etc)
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Exten Tuy Mafia: Carbon-14 | Game Over! Who won? : dGames Reject Copy
- Thread starter Xiivi
- Start date
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
You say no lynch gives no information going into day 2 but the other plans give no lynch info either, its based around lynching ppl who claim VT.
with a double no lynch your getting 2 nights of information from the cop roles.
with a double no lynch your getting 2 nights of information from the cop roles.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
I laid out all the percents here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9565004&postcount=57
The chance of both cop roles dying in the double no lynch plan is 10%
This is compared to a 30% chance of them both living and an even greater chance of only losing one PR.
BUT
the problem with all of those seemingly attractive percents is that was before CK claimed. Now that CK claimed the odds are more against us with losing PRs.
I'm just having trouble following Tom's plan of purposely off'ing townies and boiling this game down to a coin flip. I just don't feel that is how mafia should be played. We are outnumbering the scum atm, think of the cop roles as a bonus. The numbers really aren't in our favor anymore for these plans, we might as well play the game by legitimately trying to find the scum and lynching them.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9565004&postcount=57
The chance of both cop roles dying in the double no lynch plan is 10%
This is compared to a 30% chance of them both living and an even greater chance of only losing one PR.
BUT
the problem with all of those seemingly attractive percents is that was before CK claimed. Now that CK claimed the odds are more against us with losing PRs.
I'm just having trouble following Tom's plan of purposely off'ing townies and boiling this game down to a coin flip. I just don't feel that is how mafia should be played. We are outnumbering the scum atm, think of the cop roles as a bonus. The numbers really aren't in our favor anymore for these plans, we might as well play the game by legitimately trying to find the scum and lynching them.
I don't agree with Crimson King's assessment of Omni. I'd like to see CK make a decision on whether Omni is closer to scum or closer to town and not neutral, because I don't agree with a similarity between KevinM's and Omni's play.
Airgemini was obviously giving his answer to Kevin's question towards Chibo, because Air brought it up independently (it being CK's vanilla claim and why it bothered him). Crimson King's/Kevin's attitudes towards Airgemini seem hyperbolic. Yes, he was not active in the beginning. Do what Chaco is doing and push him to be active and get a read on him - do not simply just write him off as scum, that makes you look like you are trying to get an elimination out of it instead of a read out of it.
Curious to know why Chibo is still up for a Tom lynch.
Yes to Chaco that Omni's votes have bounced but no its not a bad thing.
Need more time to see Chaco, KevinM, Airgemini to feel a lynch.
Airgemini was obviously giving his answer to Kevin's question towards Chibo, because Air brought it up independently (it being CK's vanilla claim and why it bothered him). Crimson King's/Kevin's attitudes towards Airgemini seem hyperbolic. Yes, he was not active in the beginning. Do what Chaco is doing and push him to be active and get a read on him - do not simply just write him off as scum, that makes you look like you are trying to get an elimination out of it instead of a read out of it.
Curious to know why Chibo is still up for a Tom lynch.
Yes to Chaco that Omni's votes have bounced but no its not a bad thing.
Need more time to see Chaco, KevinM, Airgemini to feel a lynch.
Chaco, its nice to see you know what a null tell is. And its nice that you know the plans aren't going to be followed. So stop talking about them and tell me who you think is odd.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
Ok, Air was just online again viewing this thread for a bit and did not respond. There's plenty to comment on in this game. Especially compared to Shaq Mafia where Air had 34 posts in the one day he was alive (minus like 3 or 4 posts that were made outside of day 1) compared to a whopping 5 from this game.
Air's parroting even more than normal and is really only doing the absolute bair (c wut i did ther) minimum trying to keep out of the conversation because of well... seems like hes out of ideas.
I'm still fine with a Tom lynch, but I feel we can actually get some progress with going Air atm.
Unvote Vote Airgemini
Air's parroting even more than normal and is really only doing the absolute bair (c wut i did ther) minimum trying to keep out of the conversation because of well... seems like hes out of ideas.
I'm still fine with a Tom lynch, but I feel we can actually get some progress with going Air atm.
Unvote Vote Airgemini
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
I'm still up for a you (Tom) lynch because
1. Your plan that involves intentionally voting off townies trying to boil this game down to a coin flip that hardly involves scumhunting (aka, the town actively looking for town).
2. You're brash attitude towards most of us.
And... (even further thanks to your latest posts)
3. You seem to have a bit of a connection with Air, who I've also been suspicious of. Saying CK/Kevin's attitudes on Air is hyperbolic? Everything that's been said so far about Air is true. Previously saying like "@air - if its hard to talk, just talk about whatever you feel is necessary. if there is something you didnt like, bring it up." While its cool to help people out, I feel it's odd for you to take this kind of tie to Air compared to Kevin who was inactive (albeit without a computer) and you wanting him to either post by today or be replaced.
1. Your plan that involves intentionally voting off townies trying to boil this game down to a coin flip that hardly involves scumhunting (aka, the town actively looking for town).
2. You're brash attitude towards most of us.
And... (even further thanks to your latest posts)
3. You seem to have a bit of a connection with Air, who I've also been suspicious of. Saying CK/Kevin's attitudes on Air is hyperbolic? Everything that's been said so far about Air is true. Previously saying like "@air - if its hard to talk, just talk about whatever you feel is necessary. if there is something you didnt like, bring it up." While its cool to help people out, I feel it's odd for you to take this kind of tie to Air compared to Kevin who was inactive (albeit without a computer) and you wanting him to either post by today or be replaced.
making sure I didnt just ninja you: Curious to know why Chibo is still up for a Tom lynch.
**** you just ninja'd me.
**** you just ninja'd me.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
lol ninja on ninja
forgot to add
4. Massive WIFOM
forgot to add
4. Massive WIFOM
The faults in 1 are the same faults as in your plan.
For 2, I haven't been brash to anyone but you.
For 3, I'd like you to find where I treated Air any differently in any other game.
For 4, WIFOM is scummy or good looking on a case by case basis. If you think this time it was scummy, I'd like to ask you why it doesn't outweigh the truth behind the statement I made (why would I kickstart the game if I were scum - Omni seems to have the right idea about it calling it a null to slight town tell. You are just textbooking it.)
For 2, I haven't been brash to anyone but you.
For 3, I'd like you to find where I treated Air any differently in any other game.
For 4, WIFOM is scummy or good looking on a case by case basis. If you think this time it was scummy, I'd like to ask you why it doesn't outweigh the truth behind the statement I made (why would I kickstart the game if I were scum - Omni seems to have the right idea about it calling it a null to slight town tell. You are just textbooking it.)
@Chibo: What connection does Air possess with Tom?
I'm not seeing it, or how you can even deduce that with how little air has posted. Tom has barely even mentioned him as well. Be sure to prove your point, and do not skirt the issue. As you did with Kevin.
I'm not seeing it, or how you can even deduce that with how little air has posted. Tom has barely even mentioned him as well. Be sure to prove your point, and do not skirt the issue. As you did with Kevin.
Airgemini
Chansey
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I've been slightly busy these last couple of days so I've just been checking in every now and then. /:
Can we just lynch normally and forget all these plans? >.>
Air, man, that's been said and pretty much agreed on. Now, if you would, please read the thread once thoroughly and give me a concise post on who, or what, you find scummy.
I had already planned on it.
Airgemini
Chansey
- Joined
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Well damn.
I've already stated what I think what I think is scummy.
CKs claim and Kevin's lack of reason on his vote on Chibo and why he wants Omni lynched.
But I'm not completely sure about either to place a vote.
I've already stated what I think what I think is scummy.
CKs claim and Kevin's lack of reason on his vote on Chibo and why he wants Omni lynched.
But I'm not completely sure about either to place a vote.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
Everyone has been somewhat discontent with Air's inactivity and parroting, except for Tom that is. Tom said that he thought CK and Kevin's thoughts on Air were hyperbolic and also earlier said "@air - if its hard to talk, just talk about whatever you feel is necessary. if there is something you didnt like, bring it up."
I wouldn't expect such hand holding from Tom especially in a game comprised of all pre-ins of players with a handful of games under their belts. Hell, I don't expect that level of hand holding from Tom with complete newbies lol.
Chibo, that is my attitude towards Air. Go look at any of the other LoD games.
Besides, how would that make me a scum team with him...? I could just give him calming advice outside of the thread and not create that "connection." That should be a null-tell for you.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
I'm just saying that's a little convinient considering the 2 ppl i feel are the scummiest at the town, regardless of the connection or not
- Joined
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Pretty much. I find you leading attacks in a similar style as well as jumping lynches pretty fast. I have yet to be able to read Kevin at all, and I am at a similar loss with you.
On Tom/Air: I don't think Tom would be foolish enough to openly help someone that is secretly his scum partner. It's not something Tom does.
How does everyone feel on Air in general? Is he scummy enough to lynch? I am going to read through his posts, but the ones I reread were just a guy who has no idea what's going on.
Actually, Tom, it's WIFOM. But either, way, you do have a point. There would be no point on scum-coaching in thread.
Anyways, shot a quick re-read:
After going back through the game, which essentially has been mafia theory, a few tings have definitely stuck me. One of the greater ones being, Omni. After re-reading, and looking over it. Omni seems to be rather apprehensive about things. I can't call it more than that at the moment, but I knew there was a reason the behavior caught me at first. Nextly, I would like to direct a comment towards KevinM: Please gives reasons to your votes from now on. Continuing on, don't like Omni's comment after I mentioned a way to get Air contributing. It essentially keeps Air in his old ways. Sometimes getting started is the hardest part, so instead of labeling him as "useless'. Push him to do it. Lastly, I'm going to FoS: Chibo for essentially making up a point to a case. Tom is trying to get Air to contribute, and I do not see that as holding his hand at all. He's pushing him, as should be done. I just don't see where your case comes from really. All the points are utter rubbish, and it just shows you feel victimized for Tom calling you an asshole.
That is all for now, as far as main points go.
Anyways, shot a quick re-read:
After going back through the game, which essentially has been mafia theory, a few tings have definitely stuck me. One of the greater ones being, Omni. After re-reading, and looking over it. Omni seems to be rather apprehensive about things. I can't call it more than that at the moment, but I knew there was a reason the behavior caught me at first. Nextly, I would like to direct a comment towards KevinM: Please gives reasons to your votes from now on. Continuing on, don't like Omni's comment after I mentioned a way to get Air contributing. It essentially keeps Air in his old ways. Sometimes getting started is the hardest part, so instead of labeling him as "useless'. Push him to do it. Lastly, I'm going to FoS: Chibo for essentially making up a point to a case. Tom is trying to get Air to contribute, and I do not see that as holding his hand at all. He's pushing him, as should be done. I just don't see where your case comes from really. All the points are utter rubbish, and it just shows you feel victimized for Tom calling you an asshole.
That is all for now, as far as main points go.
The question is though Chibo: Convenient for who?
It seems to me like you've tried to use it. But I won't say anything more on it, because there is no connection.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
convinient towards the town? sort of like enforcing what I previously thought.
perhaps a better word would be coincidence
perhaps a better word would be coincidence
@CK: I again disagree with the "no idea whats going on" for Air. He knew enough of what was going on to know that you had claimed when it wasn't necessary. Like I said earlier today, I need a few days more to decide where I want to lynch.
@Chaco: If I have a point, then Chibo's point is dumb, and there is no need to call it WIFOM. You make it seem like any thinking about thinking is WIFOM. If I were trying to out think you, I would not do it in a way that would directly involve myself and my scum mate. No matter what kind of connection you draw from that, you are drawing a connection that directly involves me and him -- if there is any benefit in doing that as scum, it is heavily outweighed by the harm of directly involving the two of us in anything.
@Chaco: If I have a point, then Chibo's point is dumb, and there is no need to call it WIFOM. You make it seem like any thinking about thinking is WIFOM. If I were trying to out think you, I would not do it in a way that would directly involve myself and my scum mate. No matter what kind of connection you draw from that, you are drawing a connection that directly involves me and him -- if there is any benefit in doing that as scum, it is heavily outweighed by the harm of directly involving the two of us in anything.
do you literally think if something is WIFOM it has no merit?
Do you honestly think I do? You're meta-tunneling right now. Anyways, in this case, it hold 0 merit. Despite the fact that, I do not think you'd be stupid enough to do something of that sort.
And--I can't put it into words well, but out thinking isn't limited to always doing the smarter thing. It's the shadow of doubt that can mess with you.
wtf are you even saying.
you just answered a yes/no question with another question. i obviously asked the question because you are taking something that should hold merit and saying it doesnt because it is WIFOM.
you say in this case it holds 0 merit? ChiboSempai said that he thinks my in-thread assistance of Airgemini makes him more confident in a Tom-Air scumpair. I said that it would be completely unnecessary for me to help him in the thread when i could help him outside of the thread. there would be no reason to help him in the thread - even when WIFOMed, it doesnt mean im NOT his scum partner by helping him, it doesnt mean i CANT help him outside the thread by helping him in the thread, it means absolutely nothing except that im helping him in the thread. so it shouldnt be a tell for anything. and then you say my point has no merit, when his point has none?
"the shadow of doubt that can mess with you" so you dismiss my entire point because it is WIFOM? revert to my earlier question: do you literally think if something is WIFOM it has no merit? if yes, youre dumb. if no, then why do you think in this case it holds no merit?
edit: im meta-tunneling right now? what do you mean by that? *calling you out on your jargon*
you just answered a yes/no question with another question. i obviously asked the question because you are taking something that should hold merit and saying it doesnt because it is WIFOM.
you say in this case it holds 0 merit? ChiboSempai said that he thinks my in-thread assistance of Airgemini makes him more confident in a Tom-Air scumpair. I said that it would be completely unnecessary for me to help him in the thread when i could help him outside of the thread. there would be no reason to help him in the thread - even when WIFOMed, it doesnt mean im NOT his scum partner by helping him, it doesnt mean i CANT help him outside the thread by helping him in the thread, it means absolutely nothing except that im helping him in the thread. so it shouldnt be a tell for anything. and then you say my point has no merit, when his point has none?
"the shadow of doubt that can mess with you" so you dismiss my entire point because it is WIFOM? revert to my earlier question: do you literally think if something is WIFOM it has no merit? if yes, youre dumb. if no, then why do you think in this case it holds no merit?
edit: im meta-tunneling right now? what do you mean by that? *calling you out on your jargon*
I think you're meta-tunneling because previously I had a bad habit of dismissing things as WIFOM. you yourself said it, and mentioned it multiple times. That is why, I believe you are meta-tunneling.
No, WIFOM can have Merit, but it's recursive reasoning and that is what I was talking about with the shadow of doubt. Honestly, you textbooked a "Why would scum do that?". That is why I am dismissing it.
No, WIFOM can have Merit, but it's recursive reasoning and that is what I was talking about with the shadow of doubt. Honestly, you textbooked a "Why would scum do that?". That is why I am dismissing it.
ok... i guess ill take that as an answer. i had no idea what you meant by meta-tunneling (because you didnt even explain whom i was tunneling on (you or chibo) and what meta you meant) but i see what you mean now. i still think you have a problem with WIFOM. as well as throwing jargon out instead of just saying what it means. and also, to tie in with that second one, you speak in vague terms a lot when you could just be specific.
i didnt understand that you were just dropping it all. i thought that you were agreeing with chibosempai that a tom-air connection was actually legitimate because of my attitude towards air; i thought you were dismissing my reasoning for why my actions are normal, but instead you were just dismissing my actions.
okay.
i'd like to hear from kevinm again.
i didnt understand that you were just dropping it all. i thought that you were agreeing with chibosempai that a tom-air connection was actually legitimate because of my attitude towards air; i thought you were dismissing my reasoning for why my actions are normal, but instead you were just dismissing my actions.
okay.
i'd like to hear from kevinm again.
chibo, you say it is coincidental or convenient, but have you looked at my ->Air meta like i recommended?
glad you two have kissed and made up.
don't see anything off with tom really. chaco doesn't seem odd either.
need more from kevin.
@CK: i've reread Air's post as well. it's hard to tell because he seems to play exactly like this in every game he's in regardless of faction. i can't make an accurate assumption about his alignment it seems in any game he's in. only conclusion i can draw is that in terms of insight and contribution, he is always severely lacking and parrots worse than Iago
really really really want more from kevmo.
Vote: Kevin
commence the wagon!
don't see anything off with tom really. chaco doesn't seem odd either.
need more from kevin.
@CK: i've reread Air's post as well. it's hard to tell because he seems to play exactly like this in every game he's in regardless of faction. i can't make an accurate assumption about his alignment it seems in any game he's in. only conclusion i can draw is that in terms of insight and contribution, he is always severely lacking and parrots worse than Iago
really really really want more from kevmo.
Vote: Kevin
commence the wagon!
Chaco vs Tom seems TvT.
Would rather kill Air still.
Regardless of Tom saying I just want to eliminate Air for being Air, he's still playing non-helpful and is NOT someone I want around in a game already so close to lylo.
If he's scum awesome, if he's town whatever.
Would rather kill Air still.
Regardless of Tom saying I just want to eliminate Air for being Air, he's still playing non-helpful and is NOT someone I want around in a game already so close to lylo.
If he's scum awesome, if he's town whatever.
Ninja'd with a vote, *** outta hear I was skatin.