Export for Punish Guide : Snake/DK/R.O.B (Snake Complete, Need other 2)

[iRJi]

Snake is Finished. If you see something that says N/A, It means that it something not possible to test for that situation, or you have too many options so you can just chose which one. This goal of this thread is to show you some options that you MAY not have thought of, or thought it was not possible. The goal IS NOT to map out every move =].

People who are doing the other 2 characters, please have your information on saturaday and post in the Main thread you information with the Correct Format, as well as detailed information with it. My Snake export is a good example.

This export must be finished by the end of this week (Sunday evening) from there, I will be more strict about time.
__________________________________________________________________________

Character: Snake

NormalA(Jab)

(If not shielding): Shield, AS, Dtilt (This move clashes with too much stuff x_x
(If shielded): Jab, Grab, Retreat
(If perfect shielded): Jab, Grab, Retreat

Tilts

Ftilt

(If not shielding): AS, Retreat, Shield

(If shielded):

Close range: Grab or FP/Jab/Utilt
Mid range: Dash attack/ Retreat
Long range: Retreat

(If perfect shielded):

Close range: Jab/Grab or FP/Utilt
Mid range: Dash attack/ Retreat
Long range: Retreat

Utilt

(If not shielding): AS, Retreat, Shield
(If shielded): Dash attack/Grab/ Retreat
(If perfect shielded): Fair/Grab/Jab

Dtilt

(If not shielding): Dair, AS, Dash Attack

(If shielded):

Close range: Grab or FP/Jab/Utilt
Mid range: Dash attack/ Retreat
Long range: Retreat

(If perfect shielded):

Close range: Grab or FP/Jab/Utilt
Mid range: Dash attack/ Retreat

Smash Attacks

Fsmash

(If not shielding): Fsmash, Dash attack, Grab
(If shielded): Dash Grab, Dash attack, FP/Dtilt
(If perfect shielded): Jab or Dsmash, Grab, Dash Attack

Usmash

Replace section to Mortar Sliding at the bottom.

Dsmash

(If not shielding): AS, Jab, Grab
(If shielded): N/A
(If perfect shielded): N/A

Aerials

Uair

(If not shielding): Air Dodge, Shield
(If shielded): Jab, Retreat
(If perfect shielded): Fair, AS, Retreat

Bair

(If not shielding): Uair (From Underneath), AS, Dodge
(If shielded): Dair, AS, Grab
(If perfect shielded): Fair, Nair, AS

Dair

(If not shielding): AS, Retreat
(If shielded): Grab, Jab, Retreat
(If perfect shielded): N/A

Fair

(If not shielding): Fair, Uair, Dair
(If shielded): Nair, Utilt, Grab
(If perfect shielded): Nair, Utilt, Grab

Nair

(If not shielding): AS, Retreat
(If shielded): Grab, Jab, Retreat
(If perfect shielded): N/A

Specials

SideB

(If not shielding): AS, Shield, Dodge

DownB

(If not shielding): N/A
(If shielded): N/A
(If perfect shielded): N/A

UpB

(If not shielding): Bair, AS, Uair
(If shielded): N/A
(If perfect shielded): N/A

NormalB

(If not shielding): Grab, Improvise (=])
(If shielded): N/A
(If perfect shielded): N/A

Extras: Mortar Sliding

(If not shielding): AS, Jab,Dtilt
(If shielded): AS, Grab, Jab
(If perfect shielded): AS, Jab, grab


Notes This match, expect to shield a whole lot of his moves. While Snake has amazing Tilts, you can punish him with a few things after them. The main reason why Grab is listed as the best option after a number of his moves is because of a few good reasons.

Snake has a ******** extreme close range weakness (I am not talking about mid range, I am really talking about close) Mix ups are necessary for keeping your opponent guessing of course, but if snake is in range for a grab after his moves are initiated ( and as long as you keep in mid range of his attacks, he will be) he will have a bit of trouble. What I realized from this testing is that Snake isn't just bad in the air, he is awful in it. You want him in the air, and you tech. don't want to go up and chase him either. Snake needs to come down eventually, and he has limited options to have him land safely. All his aerial moves have a decent amount of landing lag, so if he casts one with out spacing it right, it wont be pretty for him. If he air dodges to dodge an attack, he can also be punished for that. If you get him into the air, basically just bait and trap him, the rewards are too good. If you do get the grab, Either Uthrow or Dthrow (Dthrow for damage, Uthrow for followups and trapping) and from there just follow up accordingly.

As for his recovery, The reason why Bair is the best option is because of the spacing really. Snake's recovery is easy to pick on, but if you get to close he can still attack out of it, leaving you in a bad position. Bair is suggested because it knocks him off the Cipher, while keeping your distances from his attacks. If he decides to Air dodge while you Bair, it will put him under you for you to get a easy Dair followup on. AS is 2nd choice because of what you can do after it. As while having the most safety from his attack options, if he air dodges it will be hard to follow up on. Uair is 3rd because of the power it has. It won't knock him off the Cipher until you are at reasonable percent, And also puts you at risk at his attacks since you have to get closer then what you would want. Like Bair, Uair has the follow up of Dair if snake try's to Air dodge past you though.

Tips: For his C4 recovery, I would practice Foot stooling the trajectory in where he gets launched, it will force him to do it again, making him rack up damage and you are still at an advantage. If you want to take the more offensive approach, Fair him away from the C4, he gets his recovery back, but you can harass him still.

____________________________________________________________________

Character: DK

NormalA(Jab)

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

Tilts

Ftilt

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded):

Close range: Grab or FP/Jab/Utilt
Mid range: Dash attack/ Retreat
Long range: Retreat

(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

Utilt

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Dash attack/Grab/ Retreat
(If perfect shielded): Fair/Grab/Jab

Dtilt

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

Smash Attacks

Fsmash

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

Usmash

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

Dsmash

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

Aerials

Uair

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

Bair

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

Dair

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

Fair

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3


Nair

(If not shielding): AS, Retreat
(If shielded): Grab, Jab, Retreat
(If perfect shielded): N/A

Specials

SideB

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

DownB

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

UpB

(If not shielding): Bair, AS, Uair
(If shielded): N/A
(If perfect shielded): N/a

NormalB

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

Extras: (This section will be for things like Mortar Sliding, Etc.)

Notes:

____________________________________________________________________

Character: R.O.B

NormalA(Jab)

(If not shielding): Shield, AS, Dtilt
(If shielded): Retreat, Jab,Grab, Ftilt, Dtilt.
(If perfect shielded): Jab, Grab, Dtilt,

Tilts

Ftilt

(If not shielding): AS, Ftilt, Dtilt,FP,Utilt
(If shielded): Ftilt, Dash attack, AS, retreat.
(If perfect shielded): Grab, Jab, Dash attack, Retreat

Utilt

(If not shielding): Fair, Nair, AS, FPG, retreat, dash attack
(If shielded): Grab, Fair, Nair, Dair, retreat, FPG
(If perfect shielded): Grab, FPG, Dair, Retreat.

Dtilt

(If not shielding): Dair, Dashgrab,Fair, AS
(If shielded): AS, Dair, Fair,Nair,retreat.
(If perfect shielded): FPG, Grab, Jab, retreat.

Smash Attacks

Fsmash

(If not shielding): AS, Fsmash, Dash attack.
(If shielded): Dtilt, FP, AS, Grab, retreat.
(If perfect shielded): Grab, FPG, AS, Fair, Nair,

Usmash

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

Dsmash

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

Aerials

Uair

(If not shielding): SDI-> dair, any aerial off the side where there's no hitbox, AS
(If shielded): dair, FF through-> nair,
(If perfect shielded): dair, FF through-> nair, dtilt

Bair

(If not shielding): AS, (other than that, the only thing you can really do vs. this move if used with at least some skill is a really well spaced roll behind -> jab, grab, etc. if it wasn't spaced well)
(If shielded): nair,
(If perfect shielded): nair, grab,

Dair
This move is lol

(If not shielding): uair (faster, can hit him off the side), bair, nair
(If shielded): utilt, usmash, uair, fair
(If perfect shielded): utilt, usmash, uair, fair

Fair

(If not shielding): fair (same speed, but more range to catch them, unless they retreat with it), jab/grab (only if they got land lag for the second fair), AS (at higher percents)
(If shielded): fair, nair, dash grab
(If perfect shielded): fair, nair, dash grab

Nair

(If not shielding): AS, Retreat
(If shielded): Grab, Jab, Retreat
(If perfect shielded): grab, jab,

Specials

SideB

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

DownB

(If not shielding): N/A
(If shielded): N/A
(If perfect shielded): N/A

UpB

(If not shielding):
(If shielded):
(If perfect shielded):

NormalB

(If not shielding): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3
(If perfect shielded): Punish1, Punish2, Punish3

Extras: (This section will be for things like Mortar Sliding, Etc.)

Notes:


Disclaimer: This thread is made for the sole purpose of keeping discussions clean and organized. If people wish to discuss a past event or other options, they may do so in this thread without cluttering the current discussion.

 

[The_Bear735]

With "If shielded" Jab should be there for a lot of moves.

 

[iRJi]

With "If shielded", Jab should be there for a lot of moves.

Almost didn't get what you were trying to ask because of the missing comma lol, but that's ok.

About Jab: In plan thinking it should be there, but the issue with that is the lack of range on it. Most of these options except from extremely up close you need to run to get him because of shield pushing. You can just short dash to him and then jab, but since you have to travel a distance, it can initiate a Dash Attack. If you were to Perfect shield, then walking up after some of the moves he casts and then jabbing will work, but for normal shielding it you have to take account shield pushing. That's why Just running up and grabbing will work better then trying to run up and jabbing. This is considering if you mean his tilts. His smashes I will update for everyone a bit later, and show the best option for it and of course explain why.

 

[F1ZZ]

RJ, did you do all of this by yourself?

 

[iRJi]

I am only doing snake, Phil , Disciple, and a few others are doing DK and R.O.B.

Finding out the options requires 2 people. One for the person you are testing against, that way he can test his fastest options against the things you might do, and of course yourself to test the option you need to do against them.

If you mean i did snake by myself in terms of figuring out what moves might work against him then yes, I did. If you mean did I test it by myself, then no. I had Pierce help me. I just wish I can find my notes so I can finish filling it in T_T.

 

[F1ZZ]

I am only doing snake, Phil , Disciple, and a few others are doing DK and R.O.B.

Finding out the options requires 2 people. One for the person you are testing against, that way he can test his fastest options against the things you might do, and of course yourself to test the option you need to do against them.

If you mean i did snake by myself in terms of figuring out what moves might work against him then yes, I did. If you mean did I test it by myself, then no. I had Pierce help me. I just wish I can find my notes so I can finish filling it in T_T.

Ya, I meant if you did Snake by yourself and by the way hope you find your notes.

 

[The_Bear735]

Almost didn't get what you were trying to ask because of the missing comma lol, but that's ok.

About Jab: In plan thinking it should be there, but the issue with that is the lack of range on it. Most of these options except from extremely up close you need to run to get him because of shield pushing. You can just short dash to him and then jab, but since you have to travel a distance, it can initiate a Dash Attack. If you were to Perfect shield, then walking up after some of the moves he casts and then jabbing will work, but for normal shielding it you have to take account shield pushing. That's why Just running up and grabbing will work better then trying to run up and jabbing. This is considering if you mean his tilts. His smashes I will update for everyone a bit later, and show the best option for it and of course explain why.

idk why but that grammar nazi thing made me laugh irl. And you'd be surprised how well Jab is at poking with a decent speed. And this isn't talking about running up and grabbing. By "shielding", I kind of assumed that you meant that you'd be close range, but w/e. Jab is a bad idea when you're not close enough to poke with it, but otherwise I love using it. It punishes spot dodges so well. <3 But anyway, this is just recommended if you're close to your opponent, otherwise, like you said, dash grabbing and a few other things like a SHFFNair (if you are so good with reaction times) would be better options. However, Jab usually gets a good 7-13% whenever I use it, so it's a good constant.



I could be speaking out of my rear though. It's always highly possible.

 

[iRJi]

Ya, I meant if you did Snake by yourself and by the way hope you find your notes.

I hope so too XD. If anything though, I can just retest what I am missing. Shouldn't take me long at all.

 

[ckm]

Almost didn't get what you were trying to ask because of the missing comma lol, but that's ok.

About Jab: In plan thinking it should be there, but the issue with that is the lack of range on it. Most of these options except from extremely up close you need to run to get him because of shield pushing. You can just short dash to him and then jab, but since you have to travel a distance, it can initiate a Dash Attack. If you were to Perfect shield, then walking up after some of the moves he casts and then jabbing will work, but for normal shielding it you have to take account shield pushing. That's why Just running up and grabbing will work better then trying to run up and jabbing. This is considering if you mean his tilts. His smashes I will update for everyone a bit later, and show the best option for it and of course explain why.

I'm not arguing that it would be better than dash attack or grab, but couldnt you conceivably dash towards them, shield to stop your movement, and then jab? Or would it take too long?

I suppose if it is JUST out of jab range, it might still be close to initiate a run and cancel it in time to time it right due to the dash animation...

Anyway, just a thought on how to get around the "not being able to punish with jab" thing.

 

[Timbers]

I'm just stopping in here to say that if dash attack can be used to punish, it should. Is one of Luc's best setups at mid/high percents.

 

[ckm]

I'm just stopping in here to say that if dash attack can be used to punish, it should. Is one of Luc's best setups at mid/high percents.

Yeah, I need to work that into my game more.

 

[Aurasmash14]

erm... RJ.. there is no way on earth ill be able to play against Phil.. I kinda dont live in the U.S

 

[iRJi]

erm... RJ.. there is no way on earth ill be able to play against Phil.. I kinda dont live in the U.S

You don't have too lol... All you have to do is compare notes. you can test against anyone you want, and then compare what you two came up with.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

i think for snakes Up B, you should also add Fsmash because it brings him out of the UP B. Also another one is if he is right next to the ledge, then grab and hold it until it releases and then go after him and edge guard with Fairs and such. and don't let him use the remote bomb so he could blow him self up and use another UP B to comeback.

If someone posted this then I'm sorry I took it.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

I'm just stopping in here to say that if dash attack can be used to punish, it should. Is one of Luc's best setups at mid/high percents.

true when you play against heavy characters lets say for instance Fox. you could string it into a combo. you know how you hit a character with your dash attack they go backwards. Well I was in training and I tried to figure what moves could string well with dash attack. So I did this jab>grab>upthrow>dash attack>Fair>Nair. when use up throw and wait at the right moment your dash attack will knock him forward instead of the usual backwards, so then thats when Fair and Nair come in to string in. Oh yea another thing the combo I told you about only works in low percentages.

I will explain later on with a Video attached to this.

 

[The_Bear735]

SSK, make sure to note at what percentage it can be DI'd, or if it's entirely escapable with DI, if you can. This would be very useful to string if it isn't DI able until mid percents (doubtful but w/e).

 

[Timbers]

true when you play against heavy characters lets say for instance Fox. you could string it into a combo. you know how you hit a character with your dash attack they go backwards. Well I was in training and I tried to figure what moves could string well with dash attack. So I did this jab>grab>upthrow>dash attack>Fair>Nair. when use up throw and wait at the right moment your dash attack will knock him forward instead of the usual backwards, so then thats when Fair and Nair come in to string in. Oh yea another thing the combo I told you about only works in low percentages.

I will explain later on with a Video attached to this.

dash attack into nair, utilt, dsmash all work surprisingly well. At higher percents you need late hit dash attack for a very potent dsmash setup.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

SSK, make sure to note at what percentage it can be DI'd, or if it's entirely escapable with DI, if you can. This would be very useful to string if it isn't DI able until mid percents (doubtful but w/e).

alright I'll get to that now. I'm a show you guys a video. It'll be done tommorow.

 

[iRJi]

alright I'll get to that now. I'm a show you guys a video. Its be done tommorow.

Just make sure you post you information into the brainstorm thread. Not this one.

 

[Aurasmash14]

when is the deadline for ROB? I havent played my Wii yet

 

[iRJi]

Last 2 deadlines are on Saturday - Sunday. When you do map out you information, please post it in the main thread in the correct format that I have shown you. It will only make things easier for everyone, and we can quickly move on to the next 3 characters.

Also people going to Genesis, Good Luck.

Edit: Snake is completed. Need other 2 characters now.

 

[phi1ny3]

Sorry about my lack of stuff, work's got me bogged down a bit (and other things).
Data for ROB aerial stuff:
Note: uair and such I assumed shielding by when you're on a platform.
Aerials

Uair

(If not shielding): SDI-> dair, any aerial off the side where there's no hitbox, AS
(If shielded): dair, FF through-> nair,
(If perfect shielded): dair, FF through-> nair, dtilt

Bair

(If not shielding): AS, (other than that, the only thing you can really do vs. this move if used with at least some skill is a really well spaced roll behind -> jab, grab, etc. if it wasn't spaced well)
(If shielded): nair,
(If perfect shielded): nair, grab,

Dair
This move is lol

(If not shielding): uair (faster, can hit him off the side), bair, nair
(If shielded): utilt, usmash, uair, fair
(If perfect shielded): utilt, usmash, uair, fair

Fair

(If not shielding): fair (same speed, but more range to catch them, unless they retreat with it), jab/grab (only if they got land lag for the second fair), AS (at higher percents)
(If shielded): fair, nair, dash grab
(If perfect shielded): fair, nair, dash grab

Nair

(If not shielding): AS, Retreat
(If shielded): Grab, Jab, Retreat
(If perfect shielded): grab, jab,

 

[phi1ny3]

More of ROB courtesy of Aurasmash:

Jab
(if not shielding) Shield, AS, Dtilt
(if shielded) retreat, Jab,Grab, Ftilt, Dtilt.
(if perfect shielded) Jab, Grab, Dtilt,

F-tilt
(if not shielding) AS, Ftilt, Dtilt,FP,Utilt
(if shielding) Grab, Jab, ) Ftilt, Dash attack, AS, retreat.
(if perfect shielded) Grab, Jab ) Dash attack, Retreat.(

D-tilt
(if not shielding) Dair, Dashgrab,Fair>FFnair,AS
(if shielding) AS, Dair, Fair,Nair,retreat.
(if perfect shielded) FPG, Grab, Jab, retreat.

U-tilt
(if not shielding) Fair, Nair, AS, FPG, retreat, dash attack
(if shielded) Grab, Fair, Nair, Dair, retreat, FPG
(If perfect shielded) Grab, FPG, Dair, Retreat.

F-smash
(if not shielding) AS, Fsmash, Dash attack.
(if shielded) Dtilt, FP, AS, Grab, retreat.
(if perfect shielded) Grab, FPG, AS, Fair, Nair,

Gyro
(if not shielded.) shield, AS, Dodge.
(if shielded) pick up Gyro, AS, (if shortranged Shot, Fair>nair,) Retreat
(if perfect Shielded) AS, Retreat, Attack.

 

[iRJi]

I will update later today.

 

[iRJi]

Double Post. Updated on R.O.B. Of course, you need to finish with the smashes and the rest of the moves. Also you need to write up your description on tips/tricks/things to keep in mind. Please get that information in ASAP. I am still waiting on the DK information, so also please submit that ASAP for who ever is working on it.

 

[hough123]

Double Post. Updated on R.O.B. Of course, you need to finish with the smashes and the rest of the moves. Also you need to write up your description on tips/tricks/things to keep in mind. Please get that information in ASAP. I am still waiting on the DK information, so also please submit that ASAP for who ever is working on it.

I'm back, so I'll start working again Monday.