EVOLUTION 2007= SSBM singles!

[KishPrime]

As it currently stands, counterpicks are not broken. I've certainly won plenty of sets on the opponent's counterstages, and lost them on mine. Stages are a huge part of Melee. You say players have to play the stage, that's right. Positioning is supremely important in the game. However, the amount of planning is still comparable to the amount of position planning in SF on a flat stage, and good players have to devote a very minor portion of their attention to the stage.

I see about a 5-10% chance that Japanese players play Smash at Evo, and that's only because there are the other fighting games.

Remember for OC2, Ken helped with flight costs, customized the stage set, and had a pot which probably exceeded what Evo is offering, and still only got 5 players to come. Japanese smashers just don't travel like players do for other games.

If there's evidence that they are willing to travel, then maybe we should consider deviating from US standards. But as of now there's really no reason to change things for the Japanese players.

 

[forward]

I'm just happy SSBM is at Evo.

The stages are fine. It's unfortunate that we can't ban a stage from random select or anything like that, but it's ok, I know that I'm good enough to not need it.

If a Fox goes green greens on you for game 3 of a match, you can always counter-pick fox yourself. *shrug*

 

[phish-it]

I don't see why people complain about counterpick stages for this tournament, I mean, it's not like they're any different from any other tournament.

 

[Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr.]

Lolz. The SSBM community needs to chill out about stage whining. Seriously. When I went over the rules to the EVO guys, they were like "wow, that's a lot of bans".

And it is. Like, every stage that has something different or odd about it, people complain. But seriously, no matter how screwed up a stage is...

IF YOU LOSE, YOU STILL HAVE COUNTER PICK!

There, that's it. End of Story. No more whining.

By this logic, I'd almost say it'd be semi fair to open up ALL stages to counter picks. Have the 6 neutrals for the 1st match, and every other stage be open for counters on the 2nd and 3rd match. If you want icicle mountain, go right ahead. But be prepared for Flat Zone on the 3rd match!

(by the way, i'm not seriously advocating this, but due to counter pick rules, there really should be NO complaining)

If you lose the 1st match, you lost "home field advantage" so to speak.

If you win the 1st match and they counter stage you, you still have the 3rd match in which to pick the stage.

lol, do you even play ****ing smash? other fighter games' stages are all the same, they just have different background gifs, lol. stages in this game actually matter. and yes counterpicks DO matter because a counterpick shouldn't equal INSTANT win. it should be in their favor or merely a favorite of the person who counterpicked it. that's why there are so many bans. otherwise, whoever wins the first match of a set would automatically win the set adn the whole "set" would be redundant.

 

[Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr.]

Every stage favors certain characters, if you think that's not true, you're ********.

but some stages favor those certain characters to a minimum, and those are called neutral stages, aka neutral 6.

 

[Plairnkk]

New accouncement: People who have joined smashboards within the last month have no rights to opinions.

That is all.
Proceed.

 

[squaminator]

people who think that competative smash is completely different from other competative fighting games, READ THIS:
when you win a match in any other fighter, YOU MUST KEEP THE SAME TEAM/CHAR, WHILE THE LOSER CAN SWITCH. that is a COUNTERPICK. boohoo some characters have an advantage in the counter-pick. get over it. everybody else has. smash is fair enough.

so, counterpicking chars in other fighters is very similar to stages in SSBM, except it goes one layer deeper with characters, though most of the time it doesn't matter because few people play a huge amount of characters. pc and azen are the ones to look out for.

 

[Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr.]

New accouncement: People who have joined smashboards within the last month have no rights to opinions.

That is all.
Proceed.

if you think ive been here for a month, then you need to get ar, lern 2 paly

 

[squaminator]

New accouncement: People who have joined smashboards within the last month have no rights to opinions.

That is all.
Proceed.

he was actually pretty right plainrrk. there are just some stages that people can't do much about. haven't you seen zelgadis v. eddie on yoshi's story? waveshine off the stage works on sooo many stages, and alot of stages have infinitable walls. all that indiana was saying was that renegade thinks that all the stages are merely quirky, but don't give favor enough to make it so that skill is not really a factor. he is wrong and there are plenty of stages like that. advantage is one thing, but an autowin is quite a different beast. please, read before you judge.

lol lengthy post.

mark as spam?

 

[malva00]

pc and azen are the ones to look out for.

I heard they are good

 

[squaminator]

I heard they are good

yeah, but i heard that this other guy isai plays alot of characters too. if only he had skill at SSB64. then maybe a combo video would be made for him.

 

[malva00]

you heard wrong

 

[Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr.]

you heard wrong

isai too good!

 

[Fox Hater]

This EVO thing is good news not only it is a Big tournament where everyone will se who really is the best . So definitly my friends from Puerto Rico are going to this tournament to prove that the competition here is really got and who knows if it's better but that will only be proven in the tournament.

 

[Plairnkk]

I do read before i judge, but he's trudging in here, calling people idiots, while basically implying that the only stages that should be played are the neutral 6.

If you practice on stages, you will get better at them. If you think your character sucks on a certain stage, use a different character.

If both of these fail, don't lose on the neutral stage.

That's the bottom line. I can't think of a stage in the game that can really be labelled as "auto-loss" for any character. That **** can be overcame. If you're losing to a newbie peach because he picked mute city, then you just suck.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Renegade: Could you please make a thread for EVO South that has the rules, location, and prize break down. Make the title something like: EVO South, location, date.

As policy each EVO tournament will be stickied, this thread has served its purpose, the rules are already set, green greens is on, lets deal with it and stop this pointless bickering.

 

[ChaosKnight]

no, just shut up. fox is ridiculous on green greens. it has probably the shortest deathbox in the game, allowing for insanely low percent usmash and uair kills. it also is way too easy to shinespike on. mute city is not HALF as bad.

Yo who is this guy seriously ! ROFL

plz get in tuned where we play and how long people have played this game you cant say that he has SO many advantages maybe i can show you a little of the gannon punches or maybe a Falco Shine Kill upwards

plzzz oh plzz dont tell me you know so much about fox there .. other characters have advantges there tooo and some are cheaper ..

i prolly know more stuff about fox than you do .. hes NOT that cheap there .

 

[squaminator]

Yo who is this guy seriously ! ROFL

plz get in tuned where we play and how long people have played this game you cant say that he has SO many advantages maybe i can show you a little of the gannon punches or maybe a Falco Shine Kill upwards

plzzz oh plzz dont tell me you know so much about fox there .. other characters have advantges there tooo and some are cheaper ..

i prolly know more stuff about fox than you do .. hes NOT that cheap there .

just be greatful onett is banned.
and ever stop to think that maybe fox doesn't have an advantage there, he just has a disadvantage on all the other stages?

btw i was talking to indiana, not you. the quote function doesn't do QIQ (quote in quote)

 

[Mr. 3000]

I do read before i judge, but he's trudging in here, calling people idiots, while basically implying that the only stages that should be played are the neutral 6.

If you practice on stages, you will get better at them. If you think your character sucks on a certain stage, use a different character.

If both of these fail, don't lose on the neutral stage.

That's the bottom line. I can't think of a stage in the game that can really be labelled as "auto-loss" for any character. That **** can be overcame. If you're losing to a newbie peach because he picked mute city, then you just suck.

You make a valid point, but if your opponent is a high ranking fox player and you get oh, lets say FD, you're about over 90% screwed in that match. You conterpick, ok, lets say you beat the fox, then they choose Corneria or P-Stadium, you're in a bad situation all over again. People tend to forget, not all the characters in Melee were made for 1v1 competition. Each character was given strengths and weaknesses that help them in the multiplayer enviroment.

Melee even means: 1. a confused hand-to-hand fight or struggle among several people.
2. A violent free-for-all.
3. A confused tumultuous mingling, as of a crowd
4. A fight in which the combatants are mingled in one
confused mass; a hand to hand conflict; an affray.

The stages in smash are the same way as the characters, marth and charcters alike who have good vertical and forward attacks have a pretty good advantage on platform stages, which is what the 6 neutrals almost all are, however in the multiplayer enviroment, they lose their edge by quite a significant margin. It makes me wonder how 1v1's became so popular when the game was made to be played by more than one person at a time. Let's use King of Fighters for an example, its main basis is 3v3, there is a 1v1 option in the game, but the problem with playing that is all the characters within the game are made to play on a team, it helps keep strategy and the situation from getting to broken, cheap, unfair, w/e. Let's use pikachu vs. Marth for example, ok, Marth has a huge advantage in this fight on every stage, so it doesn't matter how well you have practiced on the stage or with pikachu. Yes you can practice with other characters for counterpick, but let's be honest, the only one's you are going to choose from are other 1v1 specialists like Fox, Falco, etc. In free for alls and in 2v2's fox and falco aren't exactly that good of choices because they are specifically made to fight 1 person at a time, making their weakness in fighting multiple people at a time become a little more apparent. All I'm saying is sometimes you will be put in no win situations and the reasons why so much stuff gets banned is because maybe, just maybe the game isn't getting played right from the beginning.

 

[DrewB008]

chaosknight, fox beats everybody on green greens. laser camping, uthrow uair kills people really early, drillshines against blocks, etc. ganon can kill him early with punches, true, but ganons weakness against fox is how well fox can camp him, which green greens is an exceptional level for. falco shine kill upwards is near impossible with good DI. indiana jones knows what he's talking about, dont judge him on his post count.

 

[HipHopSpam]

You make a valid point, but if your opponent is a high ranking fox player and you get oh, lets say FD, you're about over 90% screwed in that match. You conterpick, ok, lets say you beat the fox, then they choose Corneria or P-Stadium, you're in a bad situation all over again. People tend to forget, not all the characters in Melee were made for 1v1 competition. Each character was given strengths and weaknesses that help them in the multiplayer enviroment.

Melee even means: 1. a confused hand-to-hand fight or struggle among several people.
2. A violent free-for-all.
3. A confused tumultuous mingling, as of a crowd
4. A fight in which the combatants are mingled in one
confused mass; a hand to hand conflict; an affray.

The stages in smash are the same way as the characters, marth and charcters alike who have good vertical and forward attacks have a pretty good advantage on platform stages, which is what the 6 neutrals almost all are, however in the multiplayer enviroment, they lose their edge by quite a significant margin. It makes me wonder how 1v1's became so popular when the game was made to be played by more than one person at a time. Let's use King of Fighters for an example, its main basis is 3v3, there is a 1v1 option in the game, but the problem with playing that is all the characters within the game are made to play on a team, it helps keep strategy and the situation from getting to broken, cheap, unfair, w/e. Let's use pikachu vs. Marth for example, ok, Marth has a huge advantage in this fight on every stage, so it doesn't matter how well you have practiced on the stage or with pikachu. Yes you can practice with other characters for counterpick, but let's be honest, the only one's you are going to choose from are other 1v1 specialists like Fox, Falco, etc. In free for alls and in 2v2's fox and falco aren't exactly that good of choices because they are specifically made to fight 1 person at a time, making their weakness in fighting multiple people at a time become a little more apparent. All I'm saying is sometimes you will be put in no win situations and the reasons why so much stuff gets banned is because maybe, just maybe the game isn't getting played right from the beginning.

Though you make a good point with the marth v pikachu statement, I have to go ahead and disagree with your general stance on the arguement. Smash does have characters that are unbalanced when compared to others, HOWEVER, the game was purposely designed so that things like mind games and technical skill overwhelm pure brute strength. I've seen pikachus beat marths, vice versa. My point is, the real strength lies in the player and not the individual character. As far as doubles goes, that's more about team work. For example, Ice Climbers are TERRIBLE in teams, in theory (they can get separated, knocked around, etc). Yet, I've seen people play the IC's in teams and were very successful. That's all I have to say for now.

 

[nookrulz]

Except that Indiana Jones also said that all stages were the same for other fighting games. l2p yourself, good sir.

 

[K.C. Cloud]

Though you make a good point with the marth v pikachu statement, I have to go ahead and disagree with your general stance on the arguement. Smash does have characters that are unbalanced when compared to others, HOWEVER, the game was purposely designed so that things like mind games and technical skill overwhelm pure brute strength. I've seen pikachus beat marths, vice versa. My point is, the real strength lies in the player and not the individual character. As far as doubles goes, that's more about team work. For example, Ice Climbers are TERRIBLE in teams, in theory (they can get separated, knocked around, etc). Yet, I've seen people play the IC's in teams and were very successful. That's all I have to say for now.

The game was not made so that Technical skill and Mindgames overwhelm brute strength.

People need to stop looking at this game like that, The game was designed for fun purposes and multiplayer purposes.

What we have turned the game into as players over the time span in which the game has expanded and certain aspects exploited is what allows Technical skill and Mindgames to outplay the other person.

Though considering two people are equal in skill, the match is in the Marths favor, no disputing that.

 

[Aesir]

me thinks mr.3000 has a hard time playing this game in singles. >_> reasoning being he thinks you're 90% screwed if you face fox on FD.


which has never happened to me unless I'm playing someone whos much better then me. other then that I either **** or go even with fox. >_>

 

[K.C. Cloud]

me thinks mr.3000 has a hard time playing this game in singles. >_> reasoning being he thinks you're 90% screwed if you face fox on FD.


which has never happened to me unless I'm playing someone whos much better then me. other then that I either **** or go even with fox. >_>

Which is also not true, cause there are quite a few characters that can exploit weaknesses of fox on FD, such as his Fast Falling "habits' lmao.

 

[shminkledorf]

He means even against fox.

 

[Aesir]

thats basically what I was saying >_> unless you were agreeing with me.

 

[Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr.]

Except that Indiana Jones also said that all stages were the same for other fighting games. l2p yourself, good sir.

like?

only ones i can think of is maybe tekken (i have no ****ing clue) and mortal kombat (whihc is a joke)

 

[Tope]

Soul Calibur, Naruto ect...


Edit:

If you wanted to simplify things make it 6 neutrals + stage bans making a total of 3 out of possible 4 stages to be played on.


However what you have now is pretty standard, and generally accepted by most of the community. Those few people that complain to that extreme represent a small percent of the population, and most don't represent a good sampling of skill either.

 

[Omnigamer]

Rules are fine as is. A lot of people don't understand what it really takes to "ban" something, and end up just getting rid of whatever makes them uncomfortable. That's one thing that this (young) fighting community needs to pick up on from other fighters.

 

[ICEE]

Ha~aH
I can finally show off my skills.
Hope I do well

 

[Velox]

me thinks mr.3000 has a hard time playing this game in singles. >_> reasoning being he thinks you're 90% screwed if you face fox on FD.


which has never happened to me unless I'm playing someone whos much better then me. other then that I either **** or go even with fox. >_>

Mr. 3000 is a good Link player from Houston Texas. Hence why he is screwed against Fox on FD I assume (I don't play Link, I wouldn't know), but as a Fox player, I would have to agree, he's screwed. That and he said "high ranking" Fox.

Don't assume he's bad in singles because he supports doubles (I think your other reason has no base, because, I doubt you know how good he actually is... basing it off of one statement is ridiculous...) Him and his teams partner, T-Rex, have a solid doubles team, that's for sure. I've seen them play.

I think his thought provoking stance on teams is actually quite interesting as a matter of fact.

 

[Hank McCoy]

If you wanted to simplify things make it 6 neutrals + stage bans making a total of 3 out of possible 4 stages to be played on.

the tournament im hosting is 6 neutrals, 3 of which are on random, and no stage bans so that sets of 5 can be played.

and omni, no.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I'm unstickying this and putting up a thread for EVO South. I wanted Renegade to make it but he hasn't responded and I'm tired of this thread's nonsense. The rules are how they are, lets just deal.