Evo Entrant Numbers Finalized: Smash 4: 1926 - Melee: 1869

[Laggalot101]

Truly, I'm shocked (in the positive sense) at the results of both Smash games. I don't think I, or anyone else, could have suspected that either game would be this succesful. Truly, this is a beautiful day for the Smash community as a whole!

I don't get why players of either game always feel the need to argue with eachother. I mean, I do in a sense (it's a chain reaction of mutual frustration, as well as a few trolls here and there) but I don't agree with the behavior. Never have and I probably never will. Neither game is going to phase the other out, neither game is unfairly or undeservingly 'riding' the other (riding sounds so condescending anyway), neither game is better than the other. They both have qualities to make them unique and appealing in their own way.

Dare I say I think both games straight up benefit from eachother's presence and achievements. From Melee being the game that laid the fundaments for competitive Smash as we know it today and generally being the more technically demanding and obviously more fleshed out game (if only due to age. Not going to start a seperate discussion on that, though). Melee is a game that should be respected for what it has done for the series as a whole since its release. On the other hand, there's Smash 4 which is infinitely more approachable for a variety of reasons and being a very new game it is much more likely to reach and draw a new audience into the competitive smash scene, which is healthy for the series as a whole, and the game itself is competitively viable and competent enough to be widely appealing and to sustain itself as a competitive game. And again, Smash 4 is early in its life, so who knows what its still future holds for the series? I believe this game holds a very positive position for the series, and the prospect of what this game might still hold for the series in patches and DLC in the future is something I find both curious and exciting.

Truly, these games can only benefit from eachother's existance.

 

[Hatacatan]

Melee players shouldn't feel threatend by the slightly higher (57 people is not even significant at this scale, that's probably within random variation anyway) entrance number. Melee isn't going anywhere, and it is not surprising that many people who enter the competetive scene start of with the newest title, especially since you don't have to fight people who have a 10 year head start on you.

That being said, I believe it's wiser to put Melee on Sunday. The reason why both sames are seperated in the first place is because they take up so much time, we are talking upwards of 5 hours for both top 8s for a mix of Bo3 and Bo5. Melee Top 8s tend to be a decent amount faster, making it more likely that it will roughly fit into a 2 hour time slot.

 

[Gimmick-Hater]

I wasn't sure how to approach this because of how wrong you are, but I'll leave it at this and let you figure the rest out: Smashbros games don't get replaced by newer iterations. Sm4sh simply isn't a suitable replacement for Melee. In the year 20XX when Smash5 is at EVO, I'll stand by Sm4sh and say the same thing about it then that I'm saying now about Melee.

Saying I'm wrong doesn't really do much. It's just an opinion (Not to say what I'm saying isn't). I could just as easily say that MKX isn't a suitable replacement MK9. Does that mean they should both be here? Nope.

 

[mangojuice]

Hmm. It was reported on SRK that SF4 had like 7k.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Great! This EVO will be surely better than last year. I wonder if ZeRo will win again... And stop teasing Falcon!
I am happy for both games... A series often considered "not a real Fighting Game" gets more entrants than almost every "real fighting game" there.

 

[King9999]

1926 entrants for Smash 4. There's gotta be SOMEONE in there who can take out Zero.

 

[AaronSMASH]

1926 entrants for Smash 4. There's gotta be SOMEONE in there who can take out Zero.

I really hope so. I'm tired of people complaining about muh tears! Instead of hitting the lab and helping to develop the metagame.

It isn't a coincidence that every character he starts using is suddenly 'ERMGD BROKEN TOP TIER PLS MASHPOTATO NERF WTF'.

The fact is he's practically the only person developing the metagame because people prefer complaining to putting in the work.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You do realize melee has more usuable/applicable/useful techs that were discovered during the first year or so then sm4sh right?

I have not seen anything discovered applied and used, or even adding that much depth.

Only thing I have seen is that shield tech that works of you hold a different button.

Smashers, both of these are crazy awesome numbers. In 2012 there were zero Smash players at EVO. This year Smashers will be a third of the 10,000 players. Melee, a game that is nearly 15 years old, has grown at EVO every year it's been there and has nearly doubled its players from just a year ago. Smash Wii U, in it's own right, has the best first year appearance of any game at EVO ever and second best showing of all time.

This stuff is crazy - and while the Smash community may be divided by many games now, we are still a single Smash community with a deep, long history. Every Smash game is made stronger when a player of any single game supports their fellow Smashers.

Well said.

are you serious? Doubles was insane! Singles eqs great too. Plup vs Mango had me standing up biting my nails

(/PhoenixWrightVoice)
After reading your post, I have concluded you missed the whole point! During the time sm4sh has been out, melee had the same amount of techs discovered roughly. However, Sm4sh techs are nearly useless! When do you see people perfect pivoting in matches? According to my calculations, the number is.. Zero!(/PhoenixWroghtVoiceEnds()
Sorry if that came out ***holeish.

The heck? No they aren't. A lot of techs are pretty dang useful in smash 4.

I am so ready for Smash 4 to take the main stage and witness the emotional breakdown of Melee fanboys.

You want sponsors, you want e-sports, you want nintendo involvement. Be careful what you wish for, because you just got it. The thing is; you dont get to choose what game Nintendo sponsors and what game the sponsors demand take the main stage.

Heres a hint; its not going to be the game that isn't sold anymore, the sponsors prefer to promote the current game, allowing them to make big $. Just like you guys always wanted.

btw I donated like $120+ to Evo 2013, I enter melee tournaments. I just love the drama of melee fans seething at the fact that smash 4 is more popular.

WHO CARES LOL.

I'm not sure why you are stiring the drama. It's better if you don't.

wonder where you got that number from? i, too, remember identifying myself by my favourite smash game when making a donation to breast cancer research.

it's almost like melee appealed to 64, brawl, and pm, but mostly brawl, because it needed it to surpass skullgirls which was right on its heels.

like i said, desperate to forget. also don't be flapping your jaw at "jumping to conclusions" when you assumed i was a smash 4 player just for being sick of the double standards from you guys. don't make me laugh.

honestly anyone who is upset about smash 4 getting more entrants, making excuses for it, and already whining about how they didn't "earn it" needs to man the **** up. just because they watched a documentary about how melee's scene was actually threatened in 2008 doesn't mean history is repeating itself. i swear to god it's like half these people just desperately want to belong to something and can't figure out how to contribute anything meaningful and instead opt to **** on everyone else. pathetic.

Also well said.

Great! This EVO will be surely better than last year. I wonder if ZeRo will win again... And stop teasing Falcon!
I am happy for both games... A series often considered "not a real Fighting Game" gets more entrants than almost every "real fighting game" there.

Well said as well.

 

[PCHU]

stuff.

I don't know why anyone brought tech into this when the main "issue" of Smash 4 isn't regarding tech, it's about a lot of characters lacking options to go on the offensive or even throw out pokes.
Most characters can only string together an aerial or two off of a throw and that's where the punish ends; many can't extend the combo through creativity because they're limited by what the game has given them to work with which is why defensive play is so favored.
That isn't even bringing in the mobility gap, but that's enough.

Bashing either game won't do any good, and while I don't think anyone should discredit Smash 4 just yet, I will say that Melee should be shown on Sunday (even though my input means nothing) simply because it's more entertaining to watch.
I've had matches where I was amazed by my own play or somebody else's in Smash 4, but after watching it again, it really wasn't all that great and didn't require much thought or input, but I've never really seen that with Melee because the great plays aren't so contextual.
I am not saying that Smash 4 is a game of no skill, but it's much more basic overall, even though that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

You already know all this, though, and Smash 4's probably going to be shown on Sunday.
I can't say I mind very much, but I do want there to be more variety overall.

 

[ThePuffDaddy]

Awesome to see so many entrants for both games!

 

[CelloLuCC]

Techs were brought up when someone basically said "Sm4sh is less complex because it's been out for a smaller period of time. Eventually it will be more complex." which totally misses the fact that 2/3 of a year is still a good period of time.

And how is what pidge said well said on the last paragraph? the first two makes sense and i respect that, but that last one is just a big contradiction (if im using that word right)

Side note: I recognize I was wrong on the tech skill in sm4sh being TOTALLY useless, however, I still find it far from a necessity.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't know why anyone brought tech into this when the main "issue" of Smash 4 isn't regarding tech, it's about a lot of characters lacking options to go on the offensive or even throw out pokes.
Most characters can only string together an aerial or two off of a throw and that's where the punish ends; many can't extend the combo through creativity because they're limited by what the game has given them to work with which is why defensive play is so favored.
That isn't even bringing in the mobility gap, but that's enough.

Bashing either game won't do any good, and while I don't think anyone should discredit Smash 4 just yet, I will say that Melee should be shown on Sunday (even though my input means nothing) simply because it's more entertaining to watch.
I've had matches where I was amazed by my own play or somebody else's in Smash 4, but after watching it again, it really wasn't all that great and didn't require much thought or input, but I've never really seen that with Melee because the great plays aren't so contextual.
I am not saying that Smash 4 is a game of no skill, but it's much more basic overall, even though that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

You already know all this, though, and Smash 4's probably going to be shown on Sunday.
I can't say I mind very much, but I do want there to be more variety overall.

I'm not going to debate anything here because it is opinion, at best. Nor did I ever try to start it.

I was taking issue with the fact someone said tech skill is worthless in smash 4, because as splayed of both games that is far from the truth.

People think it is due to a low skill floor.

 

[COB]

Interesting that Smash 4 has more entrants, most likely due approachability

And that is still riding the new game hype lol. Notice games like Injustice are at EVO the first year they are released

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

And that is still riding the new game hype lol. Notice games like Injustice are at EVO the first year they are released

This isn't injustice.

 

[ssbMars]

A new game with fresh mechanics that everyone has to relearn will always be way more approachable in the first few years. The same applies to Sm4sh. That doesn't speak for its complexity or anything of the sort, and it's not to discredit its amazing success this year. All I'm saying is despite being a Melee/PM player first and foremost, I would totally sign up for Sm4sh pools at EVO if I had the means of attending. It's just good fun and I don't have to worry about getting trumped by some AT that my opponent mastered. Once you learn your character fundamentals and a few mu's you're good to go.

 

[Iceweasel]

Techs were brought up when someone basically said "Sm4sh is less complex because it's been out for a smaller period of time. Eventually it will be more complex." which totally misses the fact that 2/3 of a year is still a good period of time.

And how is what pidge said well said on the last paragraph? the first two makes sense and i respect that, but that last one is just a big contradiction (if im using that word right)

Side note: I recognize I was wrong on the tech skill in sm4sh being TOTALLY useless, however, I still find it far from a necessity.

What difference does it make if tech skill was totally useless? Tech skill is just a fancy way of saying, "You can hit buttons well". You could train a chimp to have perfect tech skill. It doesn't mean it can play well in any other respect, it just means that one of the lower primates can master the thing that's supposedly so great about Melee and Project Melee.

 

[Dandy_here]

Melee is riding off the SM4SH hype that's why it has been getting more entries recently. During the Brawl age this had a negative effect because people thought it was gonna be melee 2.0, so melee died down a little due to the new game and mlg dropping them from the pro circuit, but after pm started getting popular melee kick back up then started at a steady pace again, the same will happen with SM4SH after that melee will too. So stop asking why SM4SH has so many, instead ask the question about melee. I fail to see why people don't get this.Why can't we just be happy for both games, this is SMASHboards after all.

No actually. Melee is the reason sm4sh has a spot at evo.It's the other way around

The only reason melee is there is because 75% of the smash community would be pissed off if SM4SH was there instead of melee no smash game would be there if nintendo didn't sponsor the event most likely.

Melee got there 2 years ago and once in 2007.

 

[AaronSMASH]

A new game with fresh mechanics that everyone has to relearn will always be way more approachable in the first few years. The same applies to Sm4sh. That doesn't speak for its complexity or anything of the sort, and it's not to discredit its amazing success this year. All I'm saying is despite being a Melee/PM player first and foremost, I would totally sign up for Sm4sh pools at EVO if I had the means of attending. It's just good fun and I don't have to worry about getting trumped by some AT that my opponent mastered. Once you learn your character fundamentals and a few mu's you're good to go.

Are you really implying that you can go learn the fundamentals of a character in smash wii u and you automatically have a shot at placing high in the tournament? Or even in the top half? Or even the top 90%?

That is absurd.

Confirmed for never having made a single attempt at competing in even the weakest of smash 4 competitive scenes. Or just a pathetic troll.

 

[PCHU]

Are you really implying that you can go learn the fundamentals of a character in smash wii u and you automatically have a shot at placing high in the tournament? Or even in the top half? Or even the top 90%?

They're right and not so right.
Yes, fundamentals will get you farther in Smash 4 than Melee, but they will not guarantee anything.
Likewise, yes, ATs are important, but no single AT should ever consistently best you if you have solid fundamentals.
Both of these aspects work together to support and enhance your playstyle and potential; neither on their own will carry you.
This speaks for every Smash.

 

[Flambo237]

No actually. Melee is the reason sm4sh has a spot at evo.It's the other way around

Melee got there 2 years ago and once in 2007.

you do know i'm not stupid. also just like SF2 With SF3 and SF3 With SF4 even if the newer game is worse evo goes with the newest one.

 

[Flambo237]

Did you ever stop to think that it's because we haven't found someone with a bias for Sm4sh that is mature enough to be trusted with modship?
The real reason tho, Sm4sh simply hasn't been getting the radical hate that you see against Melee in this thread. Review the thread like I have and you'll see a bit of speculation and some rebuttals to Melee riding Sm4sh, but nobody is saying that Sm4sh should die or that it shouldn't be at EVO. The hate has been exclusively anti-Melee and consequently the warned posts will be Melee hate. Fact check, dawg.
Not exactly sure what this about but I'll reply since you quoted me. Sm4sh has a lot of entrants because people enjoy playing it. Yes it gained popularity in the beginning simply because of its name, but it proved to be a fun game despite not being what some people hoped for.

my ****ing computer, sorry not directed at you

 

[Dandy_here]

you do know i'm not stupid. also just like SF2 With SF3 and SF3 With SF4 even if the newer game is worse evo goes with the newest one.

I don't know if you're stupid actually. Never knew you existed. Melee isn't gonna be cast aside with numbers like that. And smash is different frojm street fighter because Melee is still our main game in nearly every aspect

 

[moofpi]

I kind of wish big TOs would stop telling us numbers of entries for things, I don't know if we can handle it -_-

 

[ssbMars]

Are you really implying that you can go learn the fundamentals of a character in smash wii u and you automatically have a shot at placing high in the tournament? snip

They're right and not so right. snip

^taking this quote into account because it's a good point and part of what would have been my reply.
I'm saying that there's less stuff in sm4sh (say, as compared to Melee) that you have to grind out to git gud. Once you know how to effectively utilize your favorite main and you know how to deal with other characters, your own creativity can fill in for the rest. It makes for a fun and exciting match. You can't tell me in a videogame community that this isn't about fun and excitement.

That is absurd.
Confirmed for never having made a single attempt at competing in even the weakest of smash 4 competitive scenes. Or just a pathetic troll.

I've dabbled plenty in my local Sm4sh scene. I've been playing since Smash 64 and I've been in every scene onward; no discrediting 4 u. I've competed in Sm4sh against both good and bad players in tournament. Some players relied too much on a single strategy and quickly got eliminated; they didn't have character fundamentals. Other players weren't as good as me but it was obvious they understood their character and it was a lot of fun playing them; we both enjoyed the matches. Whether or not they entered thinking they could take first place is up in the air, but they definitely had fun in the tournament. If that's not a good enough reason to compete, then I don't agree with your reasons. Not everyone can take first place, but anyone can enjoy their matches. My point is that in Sm4sh it's easier to do that.

my ****ing computer, sorry not directed at you

Thanks for specifying; no problem dude.

 

[MagneticMirror]

smash 4 in da house! congrats on almost 2000 players!

 

[ThePuffDaddy]

I don't know if you're stupid actually. Never knew you existed. Melee isn't gonna be cast aside with numbers like that. And smash is different frojm street fighter because Melee is still our main game in nearly every aspect

Melee still got the third most entrants and will have better viewer ship than Sm4sh , so melee ain't going anywhere.

 

[Anthonio WIlliams]

I was shocked at Smash 4 passing Melee up in entrants (can't believe that game's already big). GOOD **** to both games for breaking the record of amount of entries. I cant wait to see Saturday/Sunday

 

[Clint Jaguar]

I feel like a lot of the Smash 4 entrants are going to be casual players who live nearby and figured it would be fun to enter a big tournament like this, even if they don't win. Melee's entrants are all players who have stuck with the game all these years and are also able to go to Vegas.

 

[Quarium]

I feel like a lot of the Smash 4 entrants are going to be casual players who live nearby and figured it would be fun to enter a big tournament like this, even if they don't win. Melee's entrants are all players who have stuck with the game all these years and are also able to go to Vegas.

Generalizations are such a pre 2000's thing.

 

[J. Wiggs]

Everyone is all like "smash 4, more like ass 4" or "death to the elitist Melee fans" . I'm just like "I wanna watch EVO but I'm also totally pumped for Low Tier City 3"....
Honestly, I play them both. I play Melee to work on tech skill and get crispy and I play Sm4sh because it's all neutral game, not that that's a bad thing. Just different.

"Sometimes I want Airheads and sometimes I want a BlowPop"
-nephew 2015

 

[Flambo237]

And smash is different frojm street fighter because Melee is still our main game in nearly every aspect

Yep and that's why SM4SH has more entries.

 

[CelloLuCC]

Yep and that's why SM4SH has more entries.

56 entries more = death of melee and rise of sm4sh lololol

 

[Dandy_here]

Yep and that's why SM4SH has more entries.

Evo is not every other tournament this year. Also 50 more isn't much to brag about. Melee is almost 15 years old and still gets over 1,000 entries. Sm4sh earned they're spot, but how long they'll have it is the important question

 

[COB]

This isn't injustice.

I understand. But are you trying to say the fact that Smash 4 is still new isn't helping it?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I understand. But are you trying to say the fact that Smash 4 is still new isn't helping it?

The new factor helps, but that's detracting from what the overall situations are.

We really should just be happy both games got the numbers and will be on the main stage, but instead everyone wants to take pot shots at each other.

That is disheartening.

 

[AaronSMASH]

They're right and not so right.
Yes, fundamentals will get you farther in Smash 4 than Melee, but they will not guarantee anything.
Likewise, yes, ATs are important, but no single AT should ever consistently best you if you have solid fundamentals.
Both of these aspects work together to support and enhance your playstyle and potential; neither on their own will carry you.
This speaks for every Smash.

He's implying that the skill cap for the game is so low that it just takes fundamentals to compete at a high level.

See, here's where that tired, played out argument falls apart. ZeRo is untouchable. He's on a separate plane of existence from even the next best player in the world in regards to skill level in this game. No, not because he uses 'OP' characters. It isn't a coincidence that both of his mains are widely considered the best characters in the game and even his secondary is constantly whined about (falcon). He didn't just go out and choose the best characters. Do you see any other sheiks or Diddys dominating tournament after tournament like that?

If smash 4s skill cap is so low, then we would have parity at the highest levels of play because a number of players would have mastered the game and would be essentially interchangeable.

A perfect example are the '5 gods' of melee. I think most of us can agree that mew2king/hungrybox/armada and so on and so forth have demonstrated a mastery of the game. And being that they have reached that ceiling, they are almost interchangeable. If they played through a bracket among themselves over and over, you really couldn't make a safe bet on who would win any given playoff. And there are still others contending to break into the '5'.

That isn't to say they CAN'T get better, but after 15 years that ceiling is pretty solid.

I personally think that the game is to young for anyone to have even come close to mastering. Not ZeRo, not anyone. And I think the result of a young metagame is the defensive footsies neutral game heavy matches you see right now.

The better people get the quicker and more aggressive the matches will become.

 

[AaronSMASH]

"Sometimes I want Airheads and sometimes I want a BlowPop"
-nephew 2015

Wow. Nephew 2015 is a disgusting casual. Air heads are vastly, undeniably and objectively superior. Hes probably 6 years old with an unrefined palate. GIT GUD KID

 

[Flambo237]

Evo is not every other tournament this year. Also 50 more isn't much to brag about. Melee is almost 15 years old and still gets over 1,000 entries. Sm4sh earned they're spot, but how long they'll have it is the important question

Not bragging I like melee more, SM4SH is not brawl it'll stick around.

 

[Flambo237]

56 entries more = death of melee and rise of sm4sh lololol

No, but it proves the point that Smash is our main game

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll reiterate,

We really should just be happy both games got the numbers and will be on the main stage, but instead everyone wants to take pot shots at each other.

That is disheartening.