Evo Character Breakdown

[TaFoKiNtS]

Evo Character Counts based on Results Thread (No secondary)

Discuss

My Notes
- I don't include the calculation of secondaries in this and assumed mains.
Fox has 23/92 or 25% of the total character pool in brackets.
Marth 8 --> 1 top 32 (ouch!, must investigate who these marth's lost to)
Sheik has a consistent representation of progress (doesn't have glaring bad matchup)

 

[MattDotZeb]

16 out of 25 aint bad tho

 

[ycz12]

So Taj played Mewtwo in bracket?

 

[MountainGoat]

Is the reason there are so few high level jigglies because they are so often chastised for playing an "annoying" character?

EDIT: maybe not the best place to discuss this but it's the first thing that came to mind. Also, only 1 marth in top 32??????

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

I went based on primary characters. Taj went mewtwo against darrell and also in some games against SFAT. I'm not sure about Taj's other matches though

 

[The___cheese]

Do note that one of the Foxes should be a Falcon actually. So +1 Falcon -1 Fox.

 

[Massive]

Is the reason there are so few high level jigglies because they are so often chastised for playing an "annoying" character?

EDIT: maybe not the best place to discuss this but it's the first thing that came to mind. Also, only 1 marth in top 32??????

In addition to the "annoying" stigma and random hate you get from people, Jigglypuff is a glass cannon character who dies at low % and is very vulnerable after rest (most top tier characters have the ability to trade stock off rest pretty reliably, resetting the match).

Jigglypuff is also a character you can't practice by yourself very well. Despite there being some reasonably technical puff options, most of puff's game is prediction, very precise spacing, and movement control. The combination of these things is a large enough entry barrier that I'd wager most people end up not playing puff seriously.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Is the reason there are so few high level jigglies because they are so often chastised for playing an "annoying" character?

EDIT: maybe not the best place to discuss this but it's the first thing that came to mind. Also, only 1 marth in top 32??????

Nah, I think it's because Puff has been overrated for years and is just clearly not a top tier character. Also many people do not find Puff as fun to play generally.

 

[Bones0]

I was bored. EDIT: I'll fix top 16 later.
Okay, fixed.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

 

[Bones0]

Unknown went to Evo and didn't make top 32?

 

[oukd]

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5673/gcp9.png

your chart for top 16 is clearly wrong lol <_<

you repeated top 32 for top 16

 

[Blea Gelo]

this is pretty good. ty.

 

[ThePrime]

Neat info. Who were the samus mains that made it out of bracket .. ?

 

[Jagoffian]

Neat info. Who were the samus mains that made it out of bracket .. ?

Darrell, Hugs, and Pi.

 

[danieljosebatista]

Interesting that no Marth made top 16...

 

[Son of Slobodan]

That's almost a nice tier list imo. There's no reason for puff to be as high as she is right now. I think she's on the same level as IC's, especially after wobbles' performance this tourney.

 

[Silent Wolf]

In addition to the "annoying" stigma and random hate you get from people, Jigglypuff is a glass cannon character who dies at low % and is very vulnerable after rest (most top tier characters have the ability to trade stock off rest pretty reliably, resetting the match).

Jigglypuff is also a character you can't practice by yourself very well. Despite there being some reasonably technical puff options, most of puff's game is prediction, very precise spacing, and movement control. The combination of these things is a large enough entry barrier that I'd wager most people end up not playing puff seriously.

I would hardly call puff a glass cannon. Maybe vs fox. Everyone just sucks ass with puff and very few main her in general, that's all it is. Jiggs is no more of a glass cannon than marth.

 

[KishPrime]

There have never been too many Puff players. Seems like I can't ever remember there being more than one or two prominent players of her at a time.

My personal suspicion is that most tournament players find Fox/Falco/Falcon to be the most personally satisfying, as the link between technical skill and achievement is no more clear than with those characters. Most players who challenge themselves with competition enjoy seeing that curve in more tangible form. While she is certainly an effective character as a whole, Jigglypuff has a limited number of effective tactics that doesn't especially branch much with skill growth, which causes some players (Mango, for one obvious example) to get bored. I think there's truth to what Massive said as well - the technical game is just not as important as the mental game and that is hard to practice on your own.

It's an interesting question, though. I'd ask the same of Ice Climbers - it seems like they'd be good candidates for my theory above, but that hasn't borne itself out, possibly because figuring out their tricks on your own is nigh-impossible and by the time players come here they may already have characters they prefer. There's also the "showing-off" theory - that most spectators don't have a clue what the IC player is actually doing with the controller, making it harder to impress people with your skills (which, conversely, is yet another argument as to why Jigglypuff players are rarer). Tournament players definitely like to impress people with their skills.

 

[Divinokage]

Damn no Canada and Ganon in Top 32.. Ill fix that next time.

 

[Massive]

I would hardly call puff a glass cannon. Maybe vs fox. Everyone just sucks *** with puff and very few main her in general, that's all it is. Jiggs is no more of a glass cannon than marth.

I agree that Jigglypuff's amazing recovery offsets some of her lightness but there is still no getting around the fact that almost every character can kill her at 60-80%. Until someone develops good DI habits which, again, is very hard to do by yourself, they will die at low %s incredibly easily. This, in addition to all the missed rests prospective puff mains are inevitably going to accrue means that Jigglypuff will feel terrifically fragile for quite a while, even compared to real glass cannons like Falco.

 

[danieljosebatista]

I want someone to explain why more Marths did not do well. There were twice as many Marths in bracket as there were Jigglypuffs.

 

[WizKick]

I know Cosmo made it into quarters with Zelda, wish he could have gone further. He's the man.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I want someone to explain why more Marths did not do well. There were twice as many Marths in bracket as there were Jigglypuffs.

We tried. Then we lost. Mostly cause we suck or had other miscellaneous johns.

Thats really all that needs to be said.

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

All the Marths knocked each other out/got beat by dumb fox.

 

[ycz12]

Darrell, Hugs, and Pi.

For the record, Pi entered under the tag "Smash 4 is gonna suck."

 

[zhouster]

And two of the best Marths in the world (M2k, Ice) are counted as Sheik mains.
I suspect Taj was counted as a Mewtwo main rather than Marth as well, taking three out.

 

[Jnrd]

Well seeing as Ice went Sheik the entire tournament and M2K played sheik for like 90% of evo, I would say that placing them as sheik would be accurate. As far Taj, I'm not really sure what his spread of M2 to Marth is but I would imagine he played more Marth than M2 but I am just guessing. I know he played at least 1 game vs. SFAT as M2

 

[BTmoney]

inb4 "marth and puff are bad, worse than falcon"

 

[Blistering Speed]

Fox can't be the best character, he has no results.

 

[JPOBS]

marth is a fraud.
#changethetierlist
#freefalcon
#freeics

 

[Bones0]

I agree that Jigglypuff's amazing recovery offsets some of her lightness but there is still no getting around the fact that almost every character can kill her at 60-80%. Until someone develops good DI habits which, again, is very hard to do by yourself, they will die at low %s incredibly easily. This, in addition to all the missed rests prospective puff mains are inevitably going to accrue means that Jigglypuff will feel terrifically fragile for quite a while, even compared to real glass cannons like Falco.

She dies really early, but I think that's mostly made up for by the fact that she doesn't get comboed or gimped. That's why I wouldn't consider her a glass cannon. Spacies constantly lose stocks over a single small error, but 99% of the time Puff makes an error at sub-KO percents, she's perfectly fine, just with a bit more damage.

Updated that chart with the correct top 16 percentages in my last post, btw. Here it is again for those too lazy to scroll:

 

[BTmoney]

does m2k's marth not count or am I missing something in all seriousness

 

[danieljosebatista]

does m2k's marth not count or am I missing something in all seriousness

I think it makes sense not to count it since he went marth only one game. It would be wrong and misleading. Also this only accounts for mains, not secondaries or counterpicks.

 

[KishPrime]

It really should be about who you won your sets with anyway. A player who chooses a secondary character for a round or set loss should have no impact on this type of data - it had no impact on how far he was able to get since one would assume the player's main would not have won the match either.

 

[patrickthekid]

Is Mario really that much worse than the Doc and Luigi? His brethren gets represented while no Marios get out of pools (excluding the return of the Scorpion Master). Is there any reason for that?

 

[ycz12]

Mario is too similar to Doc while being worse in many ways. If you play Mario, you might as well play Doc.

Luigi, however, has a completely different playstyle.

 

[tarheeljks]

It really should be about who you won your sets with anyway. A player who chooses a secondary character for a round or set loss should have no impact on this type of data - it had no impact on how far he was able to get since one would assume the player's main would not have won the match either.

i mostly agree, but it kind of does matter b/c secondaries affect bans/counterpicks

 

[Lovage]

3 east coast in top 32. that's what i like to see.

 

[lordvaati]

Interesting that no Marth made top 16...

Because Ken wasn't trying hard enough.

I blame Survivor.