EVO 2015: Melee or Smash 4?

[Macdaddy53156a]

EVO is a business. Businesses want money

And if smash 4 does not have a stronger community than melee, turnout will not be as much as evo 2014. Smash 4's community earning its way into a bigger tournament's spotlight will help it as a whole, because most tournament for now will probably be TO'd largely by melee TOs. You guys have to learn to be sustainable by yourself too. We are all the smash community, but being self sustainable is important.

 

[G-Rabbit]

Strong vote for Melee from me.

 

[C-SAF]

While I do think melee is the best smash game and it has the most depth necessary for high level play, the way the melee community treated other smash games is disgusting and after what they did to brawl, I currently have no desire to support their game. I even stopped watching melee streams because of how horrible their twitch chats are to non-melee players. I will do whatever I can to support smash 4 getting into EVO, even if it's underdeveloped.

Its cause brawl sucked compared to melee

 

[BlueXenon]

Its cause brawl sucked compared to melee

I don't care how bad brawl was. People played the game, and they loved it. The melee community kept trying to ruin it for them.

 

[motive]

Reposting what I said on reddit re: Smash 4 being at EVO, but tl;dr it should be Melee without a doubt.

If it is competitively viable, we're in agreement on a ruleset and there's enough of a metagame developed then I don't see why it shouldn't be there.

However, I think a harder question to answer is whether Melee shouldn't be there. Will Smash 4 be "better" than Melee: as a game, as a competitive title, as an EVO event? I'm not so sure the answer is "yes" to those questions. Melee's already proven itself to be well worth a spot on the main stage, and with its growth in the past two years it's clearly not waning in popularity. I'd be very unhappy if it was dropped in favor of Smash 4.

At the same time, Melee has the chips stacked against it in a lot of ways. It's old, there's new games to be played, Nintendo is actually showing support for competitive Smash, Smash 4 doesn't require its own unique ****ing setups with giant ass CRT's, etc. There's a lot of factors outside of whether a game is "good" that could determine whether it gets to EVO. I'm actually really afraid that Nintendo will be even more aggressive in shutting down a Melee event in 2015 to make Smash 4 the only option.

 

[EPsilon933]

And if smash 4 does not have a stronger community than melee, turnout will not be as much as evo 2014. Smash 4's community earning its way into a bigger tournament's spotlight will help it as a whole, because most tournament for now will probably be TO'd largely by melee TOs. You guys have to learn to be sustainable by yourself too. We are all the smash community, but being self sustainable is important.

Street Fighter 3 3rd Strike at EVO = 200-300 entrants
Street FIghter 4 = 1500-2000 entrants

Why won't Smash 4 repeat the same thing? Why won't Smash 4 be self-sustainable?

Melee entered its platinum era solely because of being Streamed at EVO. It didn't make itself this big on its own. Before EVO 2013, the biggest Melee tournament was Pound 4 with 347 entrants. That happened in February 2010

 

[C-SAF]

I don't care how bad brawl was. People played the game, and they loved it. The melee community kept trying to ruin it for them.

So now u will ruin melee? lol Things are only ruined if u let get ruined.

 

[Macdaddy53156a]

Street Fighter 3 3rd Strike at EVO = 200-300 entrants
Street FIghter 4 = 1500-2000 entrants

Why won't Smash 4 repeat the same thing? Why won't Smash 4 be self-sustainable?

Melee entered its platinum era solely because of being Streamed at EVO. It didn't make itself this big on its own. Before EVO 2013, the biggest Melee tournament was Pound 4 with 347 entrants. That happened in February 2010

Your point being? The melee community made itself big by getting itself into EVO. It was not given that spot and had to fight for it. You asking to give the spot over for a 2nd time to a game that has not even proved itself yet. And SF has less changes between iteration (or so I have heard) than smash, so making the transition is easier for that series. Let smash 4 earn its way in.

 

[All4G0dsGl0ry]

i dont think the argument for "newer game = give it a chance" works that well compared to the other FGs. games like street fighter, marvel, KI, all that stuff are meant to be played at a competitive level. i'll bet that's who the creators try to cater too. smash isn't that way. melee was a mistake, but that mistake gave it the competitive edge it has. but that doesn't change that sakurai wants this game to be casual. and him trying to go both ways is balogna, it's heavy casual with a dash thrown to the competitive scene.

 

[King~]

Not for EVO. All of the stream view money goes towards their charity. They make up their costs with their venue fees and such.

Besides, Melee has broken the world record for most people tuning into a fighting game stream twice in a row (and both times immediately broken again by UMvC3). Melee has no problems bringing in massive stream viewer counts, but 9 months from now after JWitts and Shofu and everyone else streaming Smash 4 "causally" dies down, Smash 4 might not bring the same numbers you're seeing now anymore.

you do know the smash 4 invitational had more than a quarter million viewers right? making smash 4 the record holder for fighting games

 

[C-SAF]

Why won't Smash 4 repeat the same thing? Why won't Smash 4 be self-sustainable?

Cause it looks non-competitive?

 

[ph00tbag]

I love Melee. I think that it, despite its flaws, is one of the most well-designed fighting games out there, even if some of the reasons the design is so good weren't exactly intentional, and some of the flaws were. Every tournament I watch, I see something new from this game, and it makes me more excited to watch more of it.

In addition, I've thus far been fairly underwhelmed by Smash 4. Not to say I think it's an entirely poorly designed game, but some of the decisions made are baffling to me, and, well... Duck Hunt Dog is a travesty.

That said, I think Smash 4 should be given a chance on the stage. Most of my reservations about this game are founded more on theory than on observation, and truth be told I'm interested to see how it develops, at least for the first year or so. By and large, at the beginning of Brawl's lifespan, the entire Smash community was initially happy to see Brawl get a spot in Evo. Remember, the controversy wasn't over Brawl vs. Melee, it was over items, and Mr. Wizard is a pretty smart; he won't make that mistake again. I think hope that the Smash community has matured enough over the past seven years that we're able to come together again for this game, at least long enough to see if it can be as interesting at Evo.

At least we won't have to watch a master of all but one aspect of the game lose to a mere journeyman of that one aspect.

 

[EPsilon933]

Your point being? The melee community made itself big by getting itself into EVO. It was not given that spot and had to fight for it. You asking to give the spot over for a 2nd time to a game that has not even proved itself yet. And SF has less changes between iteration (or so I have heard) than smash, so making the transition is easier for that series. Let smash 4 earn its way in.

Melee needed the help of EVO to get big. Without EVO, Melee wouldn't be what it is today. Melee is what it needs to be now. Smash 4 being at EVO would benefit Smash as a competitive series the most

If you need proof, wait just until a few months (at most 3) after Smash 4 Wii U's American launch. you'll see a really big tournament scene for that game. Even with Brawl being so bad, it vastly outnumbered Melee's tournament numbers during its 1st 6 months and continued to do so for about 4 years

SF3 3S is a very good game. it's as good as Melee. SF4 isn't that good and it can still pull in good numbers. Competitive games don't have to be perfect. They just have to be good enough. The same pattern is still happening

Let's not hider a new game's boost in tournament life for simply being new

 

[DarkDragoon]

you do know the smash 4 invitational had more than a quarter million viewers right? making smash 4 the record holder for fighting games

While this is "true", that wasn't an open-to-the-public tournament like EVO is. I asked if that tournament "counted" but I was told it wasn't. But that might be because the person who is doing the record keeping has an EVO bias. Who knows?

Either way, that tournament was less of a tournament and more of a marketing stunt. Those players had never touched that game before and it wasn't a display of skill as much as it was a display of the product.

Also that was an official Nintendo E3 event stream, bringing in fans of Nintendo, not so much fans of fighting games.

If Nintendo is going to be promoting EVO's stream when Smash 4 comes on, then yeah I can totally understand picking Smash 4 over Melee. But if Nintendo isn't dropping money in EVO's pocket to main-stage Smash 4, the smarter choice is definitely to go with Melee.

 

[Macdaddy53156a]

Cause it looks non-competitive?

I'm not even arguing against smash 4. I like how it looks. It will be different than melee, but in a good way. The offstage game looks like it will need to be fleshed out, which is a good thing. That is depth. My problem is people saying smash 4 should get over melee before even doing anything. Thats just downright silly. And its even more so that people supporting smash 4 haven't even stated if they'd go to evo or not.

 

[2Fox]

you do know the smash 4 invitational had more than a quarter million viewers right? making smash 4 the record holder for fighting games

There's a huge bias of people being interested because it's new, not because it's worthwhile.

 

[d z]

Melee. After the disaster that was Brawl at Evo, smash games don't have the luxury of using Evo as a proving ground. Let smash 4 prove itself just like Melee had to (and lets not forget Melee not only had to prove itself competitvely, but also donate 100k and essentially run itself). That begin said I think its odd and unfair of Evo to pit the two games against each other (and then Mr Wizard wonders why there is animocity between the two communities?) especially when the games have largely distinct communities and different target audiences.

 

[Macdaddy53156a]

Melee needed the help of EVO to get big. Without EVO, Melee wouldn't be what it is today. Melee is what it needs to be now. Smash 4 being at EVO would benefit Smash as a competitive series the most

If you need proof, wait just until a few months (at most 3) after Smash 4 Wii U's American launch. you'll see a really big tournament scene for that game. Even with Brawl being so bad, it vastly outnumbered Melee's tournament numbers during its 1st 6 months and continued to do so for about 4 years

SF3 3S is a very good game. it's as good as Melee. SF4 isn't that good and it can still pull in good numbers. Competitive games don't have to be perfect. They just have to be good enough. The same pattern is still happening

Let's not hider a new game's boost in tournament life for simply being new

Melee doesn't need EVO, that is the point. They made themselves self sustaining through one of the strongest communities I've ever seen for a game. Smash 4 will be fine solely because nintendo will support it. Did you even factor in the inevitable nintendo hosted tournaments? There will be a ton. Smash 4 is guaranteed a large scene for at the very least a year or 2. Melee on the other hand is going to have to fight for relevance after smash 4's release. Relevance not meaning the community could go under, just in the game remaining relevant.

I'll reiterate this so you do not attempt the same argument. EVO helped smash most definitely, but that does not mean Melee would have gone under. Project M, the Documentary, and various other factors also heavily facilitated Smash's competitive popularity. Do not discredit the work the community did.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

While I do think melee is the best smash game and it has the most depth necessary for high level play, the way the melee community treated other smash games is disgusting and after what they did to brawl, I currently have no desire to support their game. I even stopped watching melee streams because of how horrible their twitch chats are to non-melee players. I will do whatever I can to support smash 4 getting into EVO, even if it's underdeveloped.

People think this because it is the fastest paced game and it has been developed for longer.

I am honestly not anti-brawl or anti-64 or anti-PJ:M or anti-smash 4. I personally prefer 64 the most of all of 'em. I'm not being an elitist. I played brawl for the first 2/2.5 years of the game. I'm being truthful. I enjoyed brawl but I didn't enjoy watching it outside of some very specific sets. The sets took far too long compared to every other game at Evo. Evo is as much as a spectator sport as a player sport. Sure you can say that the game has an amazing amount of depth but even I realize with my favorite game (I.E. 64) that it would be terrible on EVO spotlight because the game is hella slow at top levels.

 

[King~]

There's a huge bias of people being interested because it's new, not because it's worthwhile.

wasnt discussing whether it was worthwhile or not, just correcting what he said previously.


why do people keep bring up brawl at evo as if they where legitimate or main stage tournaments?

2008 was an item tournaments because thats what the EVO staff wanted and 2009 was a side tournament hosted by AiB. plus EVO 2009 was a week after genesis. which if we wanna play that game brawl had more entrants than melee at because players decided that was better than a side tourney at EVO, which it was. just saying, idk about this either way but the ridiculous inaccuracies being spouted in this thread is just getting to much.

 

[2Fox]

Melee needed the help of EVO to get big. Without EVO, Melee wouldn't be what it is today. Melee is what it needs to be now. Smash 4 being at EVO would benefit Smash as a competitive series the most

If you need proof, wait just until a few months (at most 3) after Smash 4 Wii U's American launch. you'll see a really big tournament scene for that game. Even with Brawl being so bad, it vastly outnumbered Melee's tournament numbers during its 1st 6 months and continued to do so for about 4 years

SF3 3S is a very good game. it's as good as Melee. SF4 isn't that good and it can still pull in good numbers. Competitive games don't have to be perfect. They just have to be good enough. The same pattern is still happening

Let's not hider a new game's boost in tournament life for simply being new

Absolutely disagree. Smash 4 could potentially harm the Smash community the most. Do you seriously know nothing about Brawl? It doesn't matter if it's items or just that it sucks for whatever reason. Melee fought hard to get into Evo, and you know why Evo helped? Because people saw how awesome melee was. If Sm4sh is boring to watch, even if it's slightly less boring than Brawl, that is very bad. And it will piss the hell off everyone who voted Melee in the first place.

And **** obviously the tournament scene will be big upon release. That's when it's the most fun and the easiest to win if you're getting decent. Give it 14 years and see if it can beat out every other game in a poll to appear at Evo like Melee did. See if it can get Melee's stream numbers after even five years. It will probably be less interesting than Melee in a year or two.

 

[Accelerator]

Strong vote for Melee from me. Tired of seeing these Brawl turned Smash4 players trying to cannibalize the popularity competitive Melee has brought to the smash franchise as a whole and use it to promote Smash4.

A game doesn't deserve anything just because it's new.

Edit: I also feel I should add that Melee fought hard to get into these high PR events. At no time was it given to them. It got in at 2013 because it won the charity drive, and it got in at 2014 because Melee brought the entrants, numbers, and viewers.

Smash4 has done none of these things, so it doesn't deserve a spot in EVO. Just because it's new, that doesn't mean it gets to ride off the efforts of Melee straight into the EVO main stage.

 

[Josshu]

Melee. After the disaster that was Brawl at Evo, smash games don't have the luxury of using Evo as a proving ground. Let smash 4 prove itself just like Melee had to (and lets not forget Melee not only had to prove itself competitvely, but also donate 100k and essentially run itself). That begin said I think its odd and unfair of Evo to pit the two games against each other (and then Mr Wizard wonders why there is animocity between the two communities?) especially when the games have largely distinct communities and different target audiences.

It does seem likes it's sparking a bit of controversy but what's to be done? Evo almost always runs the newer games if they have a scene that's sufficiently large enough. Blazblue, P4A, Killer Instinct, SfxT, Injustice, etc. Instead of imposing that on the smash playerbase and forcing them to play a game that people may not be excited for, the only logical thing to do is to ask the opinions of the community. If he just runs Sm4sh 4 and says "deal with it" how do you think people would respond? If he sticks with Melee and goes against Evo's established trend without even seeing if the community supports such a decision, he could get backlash for not acclimating the newer game that people may or may not be eager to play on higher and higher levels. The thing that makes the most sense is to just ask the community what it wants instead of forcing everyone to do something most people may not want to do.

 

[EPsilon933]

Melee doesn't need EVO, that is the point. They made themselves self sustaining through one of the strongest communities I've ever seen for a game. Smash 4 will be fine solely because nintendo will support it. Did you even factor in the inevitable nintendo hosted tournaments? There will be a ton. Smash 4 is guaranteed a large scene for at the very least a year or 2. Melee on the other hand is going to have to fight for relevance after smash 4's release. Relevance not meaning the community could go under, just in the game remaining relevant.

I'll reiterate this so you do not attempt the same argument. EVO helped smash most definitely, but that does not mean Melee would have gone under. Project M, the Documentary, and various other factors also heavily facilitated Smash's competitive popularity. Do not discredit the work the community did.

Would you like Melee's popularity to be limited to what it was before EVO 2013?

Brawl also had a strong community, despite the game sucking so hard

As if Nintendo tournaments would be as good as a single EVO tournament

The Melee community should fight for its survival. Go ahead. Sadly it might be at the cost of Smash 4's competitive scene. Oh wait, you said that Melee doesn't need EVO. Put Smash 4 in EVO and Melee will be fine

Melee doesn't have to be the most popular of these 2 games to survive. It can do well on its own

I did not suggest Melee would have gone under. My message intended to state that Melee would never grow much without the help of EVO

The documentary didn't do at all as much as EVO did. Melee's EVO 2013 stream exposed the game to its biggest (once) haters, the FGC. Now the FGC loves Smash Bros

 

[2Fox]

I need to say this to everyone.

If you think that Smash 4 deserves a spot because it is new, then shut up and vote for Smash 4 because you're adding nothing to this conversation.

Melee is appealing to stream, better meta, more hype players and rivalries, near 1000 entrants, stuck around for 14 years, clawed its way into Evo and revitalized Smash. If you care about anything besides "it's new", now is the time to defend Smash 4. Let's hear something convincing for Smash 4 or simply pick Melee.

 

[EPsilon933]

I need to say this to everyone.

If you think that Smash 4 deserves a spot because it is new, then shut up and vote for Smash 4 because you're adding nothing to this conversation.

Melee is appealing to stream, better meta, more hype players and rivalries, near 1000 entrants, stuck around for 14 years, clawed its way into Evo and revitalized Smash. If you care about anything besides "it's new", now is the time to defend Smash 4. Let's hear something convincing for Smash 4 or simply pick Melee.

It's as if no one's allow to speak a different opinion from yours

Who is Melee appealing to? Melee players? Smash 4 appeals to floods of gamers because floods of gamers having been hyping this game all y[ear, not just competitive players

It's as if being new means nothing. Being new would hugely expand the competitive Smash scene as a whole. Before CSGO, CS was dead. Look at how huge it is now. Lots of people said/say CS1.6 > CSS > CSGO. CSGO seems to be doing really well

 

[Accelerator]

It's as if no one's allow to speak a different opinion from yours

That's funny you say that. You seem to chime in on every thread in the Melee discussion berating the game and using every chance you get to promote Smash4.

It's almost as if you won't tolerate an opinion that has Melee over Smash4.

 

[Macdaddy53156a]

Would you like Melee's popularity to be limited to what it was before EVO 2013?

Brawl also had a strong community, despite the game sucking so hard

As if Nintendo tournaments would be as good as a single EVO tournament

The Melee community should fight for its survival. Go ahead. Sadly it might be at the cost of Smash 4's competitive scene. Oh wait, you said that Melee doesn't need EVO. Put Smash 4 in EVO and Melee will be fine

Melee doesn't have to be the most popular of these 2 games to survive. It can do well on its own

I did not suggest Melee would have gone under. My message intended to state that Melee would never grow much without the help of EVO

The documentary didn't do at all as much as EVO did. Melee's EVO 2013 stream exposed the game to its biggest (once) haters, the FGC. Now the FGC loves Smash Bros

Why in the world should a game that has been fighting for survival for 13 years have to keep doing it at its most vulnerable time? And you keep saying smash 4 could be in trouble. I can guarantee you that won't be the case. Casuals are coming for smash 4, pm people are coming for smash 4, and some melee people will probably go. Smash 4 is a new game with the whole world watching it, so it is not in danger of being deemed irrelevant in the span of a year. Stop treating it like that. And no one wants smash 4 to die. I definitely don't. As I said before, it looks interesting. I was one of the people watching Gimr's weekend stream of Japanese smash 4 all weekend. Smash 4 has a lot of people supporting it while melee has so much stacked against it. So stop with the smash 4 being some indie game trying to break into the relevancy.

 

[C-SAF]

That's funny you say that. You seem to chime in on every thread in the Melee discussion berating the game and using every chance you get to promote Smash4.

It's almost as if you won't tolerate an opinion that has Melee over Smash4.

Read his signature, it will make u lol with irony

 

[Hulka]

Melee, easy. Maybe next year for Smash 4, but Melee deffinetly deserves it this year

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I'm just saying that the last time EVO decided to pick up the new game, it was brawl with items back in 08. The next year, Brawl had 128 players and smash was then cancelled.

Picking a new game, especially if the game hasn't been proven to be super viable is an excellent well thought out decision. What if the controls don't work properly for the WiiU version or if there is delay or some other stupid glitch is found soon after release? Are you going to say, oh well, let's bring in this game anyway. I mean, look at all the weird glitches discovered already for smash 4 such as with Greninja and others.

Trying to bring in a game that hasn't developed yet is either the worst or the best decision a community can make and I'd prefer not to make that type of decision a year after melee had 960 competitors.

 

[EPsilon933]

Why in the world should a game that has been fighting for survival for 13 years have to keep doing it at its most vulnerable time? And you keep saying smash 4 could be in trouble. I can guarantee you that won't be the case. Casuals are coming for smash 4, pm people are coming for smash 4, and some melee people will probably go. Smash 4 is a new game with the whole world watching it, so it is not in danger of being deemed irrelevant in the span of a year. Stop treating it like that. And no one wants smash 4 to die. I definitely don't. As I said before, it looks interesting. I was one of the people watching Gimr's weekend stream of Japanese smash 4 all weekend. Smash 4 has a lot of people supporting it while melee has so much stacked against it. So stop with the smash 4 being some indie game trying to break into the relevancy.

I thought there'd be enough Melee loyalists to keep Melee alive when Smash 4 Wii U happens?

Did my message imply that Smash 4 is in trouble? I'm suggesting that it could have a very significant boost in its tournament scene

 

[JipC]

Realistically, Smash 4 is gonna be in
My personal preference and what I think is more interesting, more hype, deeper, etc. - Melee
Though if Reggie and HBox have streamed matches for Smash 4 at EVO I think that'd be enough to justify it

 

[Accelerator]

I thought there'd be enough Melee loyalists to keep Melee alive when Smash 4 Wii U happens?

Did my message imply that Smash 4 is in trouble? I'm suggesting that it could have a very significant boost in its tournament scene

Smash4 hasn't earned the spot. It shouldn't be allowed to skate into EVO on Melee's popularity just because it's new. What is with this entitled mentality?

 

[Macdaddy53156a]

I thought there'd be enough Melee loyalists to keep Melee alive when Smash 4 Wii U happens?

Did my message imply that Smash 4 is in trouble? I'm suggesting that it could have a very significant boost in its tournament scene

No there are not enough melee loyalists to keep melee alive. Do you know any other game surviving 13 years? Smash 4 does not need a jet pack to increase its already insane vertical jump. But melee does need the platform a majority of the time to have exposure to people outside of smash.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

No there are not enough melee loyalists to keep melee alive. Do you know any other game surviving 13 years? Smash 4 does not need a jet pack to increase its already insane vertical jump. But melee does need the platform a majority of the time to have exposure to people outside of smash.

If you honestly think that melee needs evo, you are really mistaken. Melee is having a 570 person event this weekend. There have been more big melee tournaments in the past 3 years than in the first 11. EVO combined with the MLG series as well as the documentary made the scene bigger than in 06-08.

it's quite the opposite. The only reason why I'd support smash 4 is since it would help it's competitive scene.

 

[EPsilon933]

No there are not enough melee loyalists to keep melee alive. Do you know any other game surviving 13 years? Smash 4 does not need a jet pack to increase its already insane vertical jump. But melee does need the platform a majority of the time to have exposure to people outside of smash.

Melee loyalists have made their own tournaments for a long time. Didn't you say that most Melee TOs wouldn't convert to hosting Smash 4 tournaments?

Melee is the only game to survive that long because Brawl sucked that hard. Keeping Melee alive was the only good way to keep Smash alive. Also, there were no other games for Smashers to easily transition to

Smash 4's insane vertical jump could be optimized. The boost benefits Smash as a whole better than the boost of Melee at EVO 2015

Doesn't Melee also have the problem of being 13 years old? Who cares about video games that are that old? Relatively to Smash 4, no one cares about Melee very much

 

[Macdaddy53156a]

If you honestly think that melee needs evo, you are really mistaken. Melee is having a 570 person event this weekend. There have been more big melee tournaments in the past 3 years than in the first 11. EVO combined with the MLG series as well as the documentary made the scene bigger than in 06-08.

it's quite the opposite. The only reason why I'd support smash 4 is since it would help it's competitive scene.

Yes I know melee community will be fine. I mostly said it to this guy so he'd get it that melee needs the stage to continue to promote growth. Smash 4 has nintendo's help and overall hype. It will be fine.

 

[Macdaddy53156a]

Melee loyalists have made their own tournaments for a long time. Didn't you say that most Melee TOs wouldn't convert to hosting Smash 4 tournaments?

Melee is the only game to survive that long because Brawl sucked that hard. Keeping Melee alive was the only good way to keep Smash alive. Also, there were no other games for Smashers to easily transition to

Smash 4's insane vertical jump could be optimized. The boost benefits Smash as a whole better than the boost of Melee at EVO 2015

Doesn't Melee also have the problem of being 13 years old? Who cares about video games that are that old? Relatively to Smash 4, no one cares about Melee very much

Smash 4 is fine, and will be crazy popular and supported for at least 1 to 2 years. They have much less to lose than melee does. And that sentiment of melee's age is ridiculous. I just got into melee this years, and I'm enjoying it like crazy. Melee is a special game that can stand the tests of time, which is more than we can say for smash 4 AT THE MOMENT. Stop endowing everything to smash 4 and let it go through its growing pains peacefully through 2015.

 

[greenluigiman2]

There are a lot of superficial reasons I want to see Smash 4 at EVO like better graphics, more characters, more stages and a lot of meaningful reasons like more character variety, new techniques and new/under appreciated players getting the spotlight, but what it really boils down to is that I enjoy watching Smash 4 matches more than I enjoy watching matches from any other Smash game... and the 3DS version is the only one out at the moment. I enjoy watching the meta unfold before my eyes, I enjoy watching people deal with the new mechanics, I enjoy seeing the fresh playstyles of the new characters, and the refreshed playstyles of veteran characters. It's not simply because the game is new, it's because of what being a new game entails. I want to see Smash 4 at EVO WHILE it's new, because eventually that will wear off, and even though the game could/will be great to watch when EVO 2016 rolls around, newness is a once in a generation thing.

Melee is a more safe, proven choice, but IMO it's also a game that's proven to the point of being too familiar. To me choosing it over Smash 4 is like getting an offer to go see David Fincher's new film in theaters for free and deciding to stay home and watch Fight Club with your buddies instead. You can't go wrong either way, but one opportunity means much more than the other does. It doesn't matter how good Fight Club is, I'm not passing up the chance to see a new Fincher movie in theaters for free, even if it hasn't "proven" itself yet.

With all that said, both games being there is my preferred choice by a wide margin, but if only one gets to be there Smash 4 is a pretty easy choice.

Ultra Street Fighter 4 hasn't earned the spot. It shouldn't be allowed to skate into EVO on Super Street Fighter AE's popularity just because it's new. What is with this entitled mentality?

Yes it should. There ain't nothing wrong with USF4 getting into EVO.