Enter The Darkness: Dark Samus Support Thread

[Deleted member]

Hey Golden.


Dark Samus needs a redesign.

jk she's different enough(or it?)

By Sakurai's standards, nope.

 

[Gold Dart]

...Or they could just shrink him. It's not like his size is one of his defining characteristics.

Is it just me,or would that look kind of silly?

On the topic of DS's moveset down b could be boost ball. It would add a nice recovery option,and a fast Sonic like attack.

 

[Deleted member]

Just you.

Smash is FULL of size inconsistencies.
Olimar is the size of a quarter and can fit in R.O.B.'s eye socket, yet can stand side by side with R.O.B. in Brawl (still shorter than R.O.B., but still much larger than R.O.B.'s eye).

 

[Starphoenix]

Playing through my copy of Prime Trilogy, and just started up a new game of Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. Definitely wouldn't mind Dark Samus, I've always had a moveset in mind on how Dark Samus could function in Super Smash Bros.

For starters, I always envisioned her being more agile than Samus because, you know, she levitates in the air. That alone would visually already set her apart from Samus.

-Specials-
Up Special: Phazon Crash - Dark Samus morphs into a ball of Phazon and propels forward with extreme speed. Player can control the direction of attack with the control stick.

Standard Special: Phazon Scatter - Dark Samus fires a scattered Phazon shot. Very little knockback properties.

Down Special: Phazon Barrier - Dark Samus creates a Phazon barrier to surround her. Repels any projectiles and damages opponents.

Side Special: Dark Echo - Sends an echo of herself forward to strike opponent. [think Zero's W-Shredder attack from Megaman X5]

 

[Oasis_S]

Side Special: Dark Echo - Sends an echo of herself forward to strike opponent. [think Zero's W-Shredder attack from Megaman X5]

Or maybe Noob Saibot?

 

[Starphoenix]

Or maybe Noob Saibot?

*Googles Noob Saibot*

Yeah, that would work too.

As much as I like (and want) Skytown Elysia to be the new Metroid Prime stage in Super Smash Bros, if Dark Samus is playable I think Phaaze would make more sense. Not only does it make the most sensible home-court stage for DS, Phaaze is kind of the culmination of the entire Prime trilogy. Still don't like the idea of another cave dweller stage, but it makes sense, I guess. Still rooting for Skytown.

 

[DarkSouls]

*Googles Noob Saibot*

Yeah, that would work too.

As much as I like (and want) Skytown Elysia to be the new Metroid Prime stage in Super Smash Bros, if Dark Samus is playable I think Phaaze would make more sense. Not only does it make the most sensible home-court stage for DS, Phaaze is kind of the culmination of the entire Prime trilogy. Still don't like the idea of another cave dweller stage, but it makes sense, I guess. Still rooting for Skytown.

I'm rooting for Sanctuary Fortress. You fight Dark Samus there, making it topical. It's also widely considered one of the best areas, if not the best, in the Metroid series. There's tons of potential for stage features and hazards with all the spider ball spheres and that giant dynamo.

By Sakurai's standards, nope.

That brings up the question of who wrote the trophy descriptions. I'm guessing Sakurai didn't write them all, since he has a few more important jobs for the game, and there's a LOT of them.

Besides, opinions can change.

 

[Oasis_S]

He wrote all the trophy descriptions in Melee, if that means anything.

 

[Deleted member]

While I'm not trying to bash D.S., since I actually support her/it being next in line after Ridley, I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate here.
Metroid Prime 2 had a distinctly different look for D.S. compared to Samus, yet similar abilities.
Metroid Prime 3 introduced a bunch of different abilities (taken from the other hunters), yet a look that is more comparable to a Samus recolor. (Especially when Samus gets the full corruption when you fail the game.)
If in fact, Sakurai did write Brawl's Trophy descriptions, and thought D.S. was just a recolor back in Prime 2, then I don't think Prime 3 would change that viewpoint. Sure, the abilities have changed, and she can easily be different, but it opens up a case that is typically used against someone like Dark Pit.

 

[DarkSouls]

He wrote all the trophy descriptions in Melee, if that means anything.

Wow, that's a lot of work. I underestimated his dedication.

While I'm not trying to bash D.S., since I actually support her/it being next in line after Ridley, I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate here.
Metroid Prime 2 had a distinctly different look for D.S. compared to Samus, yet similar abilities.
Metroid Prime 3 introduced a bunch of different abilities (taken from the other hunters), yet a look that is more comparable to a Samus recolor. (Especially when Samus gets the full corruption when you fail the game.)
If in fact, Sakurai did write Brawl's Trophy descriptions, and thought D.S. was just a recolor back in Prime 2, then I don't think Prime 3 would change that viewpoint. Sure, the abilities have changed, and she can easily be different, but it opens up a case that is typically used against someone like Dark Pit.

I have no idea about Dark Pit, since I haven't played Kid Icarus.

However, Dark Samus in Prime 2 is still very different from Samus in abilities; the only abilities she shared were the boost ball, super missiles, and what seem to be power beam shots in the cutscenes, and the Boost Ball isn't even included in Smash Bros Samus. Compare that to her phazon walls, floating orb-shaped shield, meteor attack, invisibility, shockwaves, and giant laser beam.

In Prime 3, she resembles PED Samus because of the smaller shoulder pads, but isn't anywhere near a recolor. Samus's model changes if you get full corruption. Comparing her appearance to Samus would be like comparing Wolf to Fox.

 

[Oasis_S]

Comparing her appearance to Samus would be like comparing Wolf to Fox.

Wolf missed his chance in Melee because of that. "Dark Samus looks too much like Samus" is a legitimate argument against her. Hurts the variety of the roster as a whole. Kind of like why we don't need another moustachioed plumber in overalls. Obviously some characters get a free pass, but I doubt Dark Samus is on the same level as Luigi. BUUUT Lucas, so who knows.

Nothing against her, but I think the best anyone could do is hope to be pleasantly Surprised.

 

[Deleted member]

Minor changes in detail vs. completely different appearance.
If anything, Samus to Dark Samus is Mario to Luigi rather than Fox to Wolf.

EDIT: Well, after StarFox 64, because like what Oasis said, Wolf was "too similar" to Fox to be included at the time.

As for Oasis' mustachiod man in overalls bit, that doesn't make a lick of difference unless they are practically the same body shape.
We don't need another like Mario or Luigi, for example, but Wario and Waluigi each have VERY different builds that differ from the Mario Bros., who are practically the same except that one is *slightly* taller.

 

[DarkSouls]

Minor changes in detail vs. completely different appearance.

Wolf looks like a spikier Fox. Prime 3 Dark Samus looks like a streamlined Samus (She actually looks less like Varia Suit Samus than Prime 2's).

Neither is a completely different appearance.

Wolf missed his chance in Melee because of that. "Dark Samus looks too much like Samus" is a legitimate argument against her. Hurts the variety of the roster as a whole. Kind of like why we don't need another moustachioed plumber in overalls. Obviously some characters get a free pass, but I doubt Dark Samus is on the same level as Luigi. BUUUT Lucas, so who knows.

Nothing against her, but I think the best anyone could do is hope to be pleasantly Surprised.

And he still got in Brawl even though he looks like a spikier Fox. And as you said, Lucas, so who knows?

I know she's a long-shot (Primarily because Metroid will probably get only one new character at best, and Ridley is the more likely candidate after Other M), but there is no reason to make her a clone.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

As far as the mentioned regions in Retro's games go, I'd personally rather have Phendrana Drifts than anything else, but I guess we only got the Frigate Orpheon in Brawl because Sakurai stopped playing the game after the Parasite Queen. :u

On a random note, I remember Anthony Higgs from Other M getting more votes/support than Dark Samus in some poll/site(s). Same with Melissa Bergman (or MB). Guess it would be interesting to some to see an android version of Mother Brain fight since she has telekinesis and stuff. Either one of those characters would be arguably more unique than a Phazonized Samus though, but since they're from a game that's pretty universally hated outside of maybe Japan, it's kind of out there right now.

Don't get me wrong though; I don't mind Dark Sammy being included either, aside from Ridley being more preferable.

 

[RedGamer]

Let's get back to movesets for a little while, shall we?

Grabs & Throws

Grab – Reaches forward with Grapple Beam. While shorter then Samus, it’s faster. Much, much faster.
Pummel – Burns opponent with Phazon. Does 2% damage for each Phazon burn.
Back Throw – Tosses the opponent backwards and activates her Phazon Booster. Deals 10% Dark Damage. Her best
Forward Throw – Slams opponent down and chucks them with a over-head throw Does 7% damage.
Up Throw – Fully extends the Grapple Beam and thrusts the opponent upwards. Does 8% damage.
Down Throw – Throws her opponent down and slams her heel into them. Does 8% damage.

The grapple beam grab idea being faster but shorter is awesome and the pummel is even more so.
But for the forward throw, what if you just use one mid-sized blast of phazon to send the opponent forward. It could also damage other characters within reach.

 

[Deleted member]

A "spikier Fox". Really?
That's really your argument?

If you were to put Fox and Wolf next to each other and Samus and Dark Samus next to each other, you'd have more people being able to tell a plenthora of differences between the former pair than the latter pair.
EDIT: The uninformed might even think Dark Samus is Samus by looks alone (even more so with the fact Samus has many different suits), while they'd at least be able to tell that Wolf is a different character from Fox. (Now if you put Fox and James next to each other...then they might think it was the same character...)

 

[Oasis_S]

By looks alone? Try NAME.

For one I think it would look bad for Metroid to have 3/4 of its characters be a Samus, lol.

 

[DarkSouls]

By looks alone? Try NAME.

For one I think it would look bad for Metroid to have 3/4 of its characters be a Samus, lol.

That's an interesting argument. Would it suddenly be better if she was named Metroid Prime instead? Does a name really matter that much? One is the main character, one is the main character not wearing her suit of armor because of fanservice, one is a character who just resembles the main character but functions completely differently, and the other is a giant space dragon.

I'd be more concerned with the Star Fox franchise anyway.

Let's get back to movesets for a little while, shall we?

The grapple beam grab idea being faster but shorter is awesome and the pummel is even more so.
But for the forward throw, what if you just use one mid-sized blast of phazon to send the opponent forward. It could also damage other characters within reach.

Dark Samus doesn't use the grapple beam, so nope.

A "spikier Fox". Really?
That's really your argument?

If you were to put Fox and Wolf next to each other and Samus and Dark Samus next to each other, you'd have more people being able to tell a crapton of differences between the former pair than the latter pair.

They both look fairly similar; similar builds, similar overall shapes.

Both also have differences across their bodies; Wolf has a mohawk, Dark Samus has a narrow visor. Wolf has body armor (With spikes), Dark Samus has differently shaped armor with tiny shoulder pads and a large hole in the front. Wolf is grey and blue instead of white and tan, Dark Samus is dark blue instead of orange and red.

Wolf looks similar to Fox. Dark Samus looks similar to Samus.

EDIT: The uninformed might even think Dark Samus is Samus by looks alone (even more so with the fact Samus has many different suits), while they'd at least be able to tell that Wolf is a different character from Fox. (Now if you put Fox and James next to each other...then they might think it was the same character...)

Wouldn't that be because Samus changes her armor all the time, while it's kinda difficult to change your fur color?

James looks exactly like Fox from the pictures I've seen. Not even comparable.

The argument is nonsensical anyways; Luigi already looks a LOT like Mario, yet nobody gets him confused with Mario. Visual similarity to another character in appearance shouldn't matter unless both characters look similar enough that you'll get them confused from a distance. Otherwise, it's not going to matter in creating movesets; Ganondorf looks nothing like Captain Falcon.

 

[Deleted member]

Before I read your post, I want to outfront apologise, as what I said seemed more confrontational than it should've been.

EDIT: No one confuses him with Mario because people know the following:

1. He's Mario's brother.
2. He's not only his brother, but by the Yoshi series, he's his twin brother. Twins that are not fraternal look alike.
3. Luigi is an infamous character and name. When people hear "Luigi", more likely than not, they're going to think "Mario's brother".

Dark Samus is not an infamous character, and by name alone, implies that it's either an evil version of Samus (which is the case), or Samus in a "Dark Suit" (which I'm well aware there is an unrelated Dark Suit Samus, which could add to confusion to people that don't know much about Metroid).
With Fox and Wolf, by name alone tells a difference. One's a fox, the other's a wolf.

 

[Oasis_S]

Visual similarity to another character in appearance shouldn't matter unless both characters look similar enough that you'll get them confused from a distance. Otherwise, it's not going to matter in creating movesets; Ganondorf looks nothing like Captain Falcon.

There's more to it than that. Variety in all manners is important. Like it might have looked bad to add both Ridley and Charizard in Brawl, so Charizard won out. It's not a very satisfactory criteria, but it's there.

 

[DarkSouls]

Before I read your post, I want to outfront apologise, as what I said seemed more confrontational than it should've been.

I didn't notice it. You seemed pretty nice. I'm sorry if I sounded too confrontational too.

EDIT: No one confuses him with Mario because people know the following:

1. He's Mario's brother.
2. He's not only his brother, but by the Yoshi series, he's his twin brother. Twins that are not fraternal look alike.
3. Luigi is an infamous character and name. When people hear "Luigi", more likely than not, they're going to think "Mario's brother".

Dark Samus is not an infamous character, and by name alone, implies that it's either an evil version of Samus (which is the case), or Samus in a "Dark Suit" (which I'm well aware there is an unrelated Dark Suit Samus).
With Fox and Wolf, by name alone tells a difference. One's a fox, the other's a wolf.

When I was talking about confusion, I was mainly meaning in the middle of a match. For example, if Ryu and Ken were both in the game, it would be very difficult to tell them apart in the middle of a match because they both have similar attacks and look very similar, even though they're probably the two most famous Street Fighter characters. Same thing with Luigi; if you have a Luigi fighting a Mario in Smash 64, for example, it's actually pretty tough to tell which is which because their attacks are so similar. Same with Link and Young Link in Melee.

Wolf is really a shining example of how to take a character who looks like another character and make him visually distinct; I've never had trouble telling which is which because Wolf's attacks have so much unique character to them.

If Dark Samus sounds too much like Samus, there's an easy way to fix that; make her moveset completely different and make her character obviously different. Booming evil laughs, an animalistic way of moving, and floating around are all ways to make an average Smash player think "This is definitely NOT Samus."

There's more to it than that. Variety in all manners is important. Like it might have looked bad to add both Ridley and Charizard in Brawl, so Charizard won out. It's not a very satisfactory criteria, but it's there.

Well, hopefully that changes; otherwise, we might have another Ridley-less, Dark Samus-less game.

 

[Deleted member]

It really isn't that difficult, to be quite honest.
When it gets to the threshold where two similar characters are in the game, it gets very easy to pick out who's who by various distincts they have otherwise, be it mannerisms, voice, or certain key distinctions (like in the case of Ryu and Ken, you have a guy wearing a headband with short hair, and one with long hair and no headband). When colors come into play, that is solely on the person being able to tell who has what color. For example, again with Ryu and Ken, if both were in, Ryu would not have a red color similar to Ken. He'd likely have a pink color instead. Playing on this for alternate colors, Ken would likely get the darker hues while Ryu gets the lighter hues (compare the blue on Blue Team Mario and the blue on Blue Team Luigi to get what I mean).
This is where Oasis' point on Ridley and Charizard falls apart. Despite both being dragonoid creatures, it is VERY easy to distinct the two.

However, before that threshold, characters that have minor differences have the biggest challenge; would they be worth it?
There is no arguement that they CAN be different, but the question lies in WILL they be different enough to be worthy of inclusion.

 

[DarkSouls]

It really isn't that difficult, to be quite honest.
When it gets to the threshold where two similar characters are in the game, it gets very easy to pick out who's who by various distincts they have otherwise, be it mannerisms, voice, or certain key distinctions (like in the case of Ryu and Ken, you have a guy wearing a headband with short hair, and one with long hair and no headband). When colors come into play, that is solely on the person being able to tell who has what color. For example, again with Ryu and Ken, if both were in, Ryu would not have a red color similar to Ken. He'd likely have a pink color instead. Playing on this for alternate colors, Ken would likely get the darker hues while Ryu gets the lighter hues (compare the blue on Blue Team Mario and the blue on Blue Team Luigi to get what I mean).
This is where Oasis' point on Ridley and Charizard falls apart. Despite both being dragonoid creatures, it is VERY easy to distinct the two.

That's why I think there's no problem for Dark Samus. Not only would her colors likely look completely different from Samus's (I'm imagining one solid color across her entire body, with her visor and chest changing to a lighter version of that color). She also moves very differently than Samus; her basic movement in her fights, for example, is floating around, and even when walking she is rather hunched.

However, before that threshold, characters that have minor differences have the biggest challenge; would they be worth it?
There is no arguement that they CAN be different, but the question lies in WILL they be different enough to be worthy of inclusion.

The thing I like about Dark Samus is that she has so much potential for a unique moveset because she's a very gimmicky opponent. She's much less straightforward than somebody like Ridley.

She's also the main villain of the Metroid Prime sub-series, appearing as the final boss in each game and the main antagonist in two (I'd say the Ing and Dark Aether are the real main antagonist of Metroid Prime 2). Ridley is a recurring boss, but he's never been main villain status; he's more of a nemesis, a super-persistent threat. The only character comparable to Dark Samus in role is Mother Brain, the main villain of Metroid and Super Metroid, and while I love Mother Brain, she's probably not getting in (Although if Sakurai found a way, Mother Brain+Ridley would be awesome).

On a sidenote, I heavily object to Anthony or MB getting in. Both are "flavor of the month" characters who are just in the most recent game, and both also come from the most hated Metroid game. Adam Malkovich at least has more importance to the franchise because of his appearance in Fusion, but people really didn't like him in Other M, and he doesn't exactly have exciting moveset potential.

 

[Oasis_S]

This is where Oasis' point on Ridley and Charizard falls apart. Despite both being dragonoid creatures, it is VERY easy to distinct the two.

I wasn't really arguing about visual distinction during a match. It's more that Sakurai would strive for as varied a cast as possible, or maybe only varied ADDITIONS to the cast. AGAIN TO BRING UP RIDLEY AS EXAMPLE, Sakurai might have thought "I've already added one dragon character, perhaps instead of adding another I should add a robot instead."

JUST AN EXAMPLE. I AM A BIG BELIEVER IN VARIETY. Instead of adding another Samus, no matter how different she may play, he could add someone else that may bring something wholly new.

 

[Deleted member]

@DarkSouls: Again, I have no problem with that, as I find Dark Samus to be next in line after Ridley, however the point still stands on what Sakurai apparently thinks of her.

As for Anthony, he's pretty much one of the main things that people cared for in Other M or so I have heard.
Anyways, I wouldn't count Anthony out just yet, as he's given us something we had yet to see in a Metroid title; a sidekick of sorts. Anthony is someone that provides a connection to Samus that no one else has (except for maybe Adam, but the relationship was more of that of a father figure), in that the two are close friends and partners (in a way).
While Anthony is still too minor of a character, it isn't farfetched to believe that he will appear in future titles (which will take place either before or after Fusion).

@Oasis: I REALLY doubt Sakurai didn't include Ridley just because of Charizard. I'm pretty sure it's because he didn't quite get how Ridley would work (until he was confronted about Ridley in Nintendo Power).

 

[Oasis_S]

JUST AN EXAMPLE.

I don't think Ridley was ever considered as a playable character.

 

[DarkSouls]

@DarkSouls: As for Anthony, he's pretty much one of the main things that people cared for in Other M or so I have heard.
Anyways, I wouldn't count Anthony out just yet, as he's given us something we had yet to see in a Metroid title; a sidekick of sorts. Anthony is someone that provides a connection to Samus that no one else has (except for maybe Adam, but the relationship was more of that of a father figure), in that the two are close friends and partners (in a way).
While Anthony is still too minor of a character, it isn't farfetched to believe that he will appear in future titles (which will take place either before or after Fusion).

He's still flavor of the month, having appeared in only the most recent Metroid game (And a rather divisive game at that). He didn't die at the end, so a further appearance is possible, but that's like advocating for U-Mos because he also didn't die at the end and might show up in a future game.

Anthony is also a fairly minor character in Other M compared to MB and Adam. He's a lot like Rundas; yeah, they're both cool (Heh), but neither of them are major players, and people are just requesting them because they like them.

 

[Deleted member]

Adam isn't much of a major player himself.
I mean, SURE he is also Samus' computer in Fusion, but he's still relatively minor of a character otherwise.

There are only 4 major players in the series; Samus, Ridley, Mother Brain, and Metroid Prime/Dark Samus. And if you want to narrow it down, Dark Samus is only major in the Prime series, and Mother Brain is only major in a couple of games (Other M included, as it's because of Mother Brain's influence that things went horribly wrong.)

While Ridley hasn't been the main villain ever, he is still notable for being in near every title in some way, shape, or form, as well as the main reason why Samus even does what she does in the first place.
So when it comes down to it, Samus and Ridley are the major two to use and you can end it there with no problems.

 

[DarkSouls]

Adam isn't much of a major player himself.
I mean, SURE he is also Samus' computer in Fusion, but he's still relatively minor of a character otherwise.

I guess. I'm not exactly going to argue for Adam Malkovich; not after Other M.

There are only 4 major players in the series; Samus, Ridley, Mother Brain, and Dark Samus. And if you want to narrow it down, Dark Samus is only major in the Prime series, and Mother Brain is only major in a couple of games (Other M included, as it's because of Mother Brain's influence that things went horribly wrong.)

I doubt it. MB just got angry when they tried to shut her down; she's evil because she's angry, while Mother Brain is just evil. She's based off of Mother Brain in the story, but she looks and acts like a completely different character.

While Ridley hasn't been the main villain ever, he is still notable for being in near every title in some way, shape, or form, as well as the main reason why Samus even does what she does in the first place.
So when it comes down to it, Samus and Ridley are the major two to use and you can end it there with no problems.

If we're talking about major roles in the series, we can really just end F-Zero at Captain Falcon, Star Fox at Fox, and Legend of Zelda at Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf/Ganon (Maybe Tingle). Pokemon could really just be Pokemon Trainer and Pikachu, since Jigglypuff, Lucario, and Mewtwo aren't exactly important to the whole series. And let's not even talk about the minute chances of characters like Waluigi. Zero-Suit Samus isn't exactly important to the series beyond being Samus, much like how Shiek isn't really that important to LoZ beyond being Zelda.

I don't think a series representation has to just be limited to those important to the entire series.

Of course, I doubt Metroid will reach four characters, but if Star Fox can reach three, anything is possible.

 

[Deleted member]

I doubt it. MB just got angry when they tried to shut her down; she's evil because she's angry, while Mother Brain is just evil. She's based off of Mother Brain in the story, but she looks and acts like a completely different character.

You are incorrect on multiple accounts.
1. MB was created with Mother Brain's AI, and she went rogue when Mother's data started to take control. Madeleine even mentions that she eventually adapted Mother Brain's personality.
2. She was clearly evil before they tried to shut her down. That's why they were GOING TO shut her down. Again, Madeleine mentions that she started to become rampant and went rogue after manifesting Mother's emotions.

If we're talking about major roles in the series, we can really just end F-Zero at Captain Falcon, Star Fox at Fox, and Legend of Zelda at Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf/Ganon (Maybe Tingle). Pokemon could really just be Pokemon Trainer and Pikachu, since Jigglypuff, Lucario, and Mewtwo aren't exactly important to the whole series. And let's not even talk about the minute chances of characters like Waluigi. Zero-Suit Samus isn't exactly important to the series beyond being Samus, much like how Shiek isn't really that important to LoZ beyond being Zelda.

I don't think a series representation has to just be limited to those important to the entire series.

Not exactly. Goroh is a prominent character and has been since the beginning, being Captain Falcon's "rival" (only he considers himself this though, as Falcon pays him no mind).
Wolf has been a major contributor in every game in the series except Adventures and the original StarFox (which was rebooted into 64, where Wolf IS in). In 64, he was like Ridley; a high ranking "minion" to the main villain (in this case, Andross) with a vendetta against the protagonist. In Assault, he started off antagonistic, then became a surprise helper to Fox during the Aparoid invasion. Command? A lot there, but the game is non-canon and sucked anyway that I don't want to get into it.
And also, each of the original 3 of Fox's teammates are important in their own right.
I'll explain the rest later.

 

[Starphoenix]

Wolf missed his chance in Melee because of that. "Dark Samus looks too much like Samus" is a legitimate argument against her. Hurts the variety of the roster as a whole. Kind of like why we don't need another moustachioed plumber in overalls. Obviously some characters get a free pass, but I doubt Dark Samus is on the same level as Luigi. BUUUT Lucas, so who knows.

Nothing against her, but I think the best anyone could do is hope to be pleasantly Surprised.

Coming from the man who only included Ganondorf because he was similar in body shape to Capt. Falcon... Just saying.

 

[MelMoe]

Dark Samus is one of my top wanted characters. Put me on the supporter list.

Hey Venus, here's ur OP Dark Samus image with a transparent background.

Spoiler

I really wish they kept her design from Echoes, she looked more inhuman.

Spoiler

Once my laptop gets fixed prepare for a moveset & color swaps.

 

[DarkSouls]

I like both; she looks a bit crazy and inhuman in Echoes because she's unstable and looking for Phazon; in Prime 3, she is much more stable and careful, reflected in her streamlined appearance.

You are incorrect on multiple accounts.
1. MB was created with Mother Brain's AI, and she went rogue when Mother's data started to take control. Madeleine even mentions that she eventually adapted Mother Brain's personality.
2. She was clearly evil before they tried to shut her down. That's why they were GOING TO shut her down. Again, Madeleine mentions that she started to become rampant and went rogue after manifesting Mother's emotions.

I checked the scene again, and while the dialogue is horrible (She adopted Mother Brain's consciousness after you based her off of Mother Brain? Really?), you're right.

So thanks for ruining Mother Brain, Sakamoto.

Not exactly. Goroh is a prominent character and has been since the beginning, being Captain Falcon's "rival" (only he considers himself this though, as Falcon pays him no mind).

But Goroh isn't particularly prominent. He was one of the original racers, but there were four original racers.

And he's not particularly prominent in the stories of the games; certainly not as prominent as Black Shadow. He was prominent in the anime, but again, there were other characters from the game who had more of a role.

I'm not saying F-Zero doesn't deserve a second character (It's the only one of the original franchises not to receive one, and F-Zero is an awesome series), but the only racer who is significant to nearly every game's setting and storyline is Falcon, and that's because he's the main character. If Goroh does become the second F-Zero character, it will be due to his popularity, not due to any special role of the character.

Wolf has been a major contributor in every game in the series except Adventures and the original StarFox (which was rebooted into 64, where Wolf IS in). In 64, he was like Ridley; a high ranking "minion" to the main villain (in this case, Andross) with a vendetta against the protagonist. In Assault, he started off antagonistic, then became a surprise helper to Fox during the Aparoid invasion. Command? A lot there, but the game is non-canon and sucked anyway that I don't want to get into it.

However, is Wolf really one of the main elements of Star Fox? That's your criteria. It's hard to imagine a Zelda game without Link, Zelda, and Ganon/Ganondorf. It's hard to imagine a Metroid game without Samus and Ridley (And Metroids). It's hard to imagine a Mario game without Mario, Bowser, Peach, Toad, and Luigi. But it's rather easy to make a Star Fox game without Wolf. As you say later, the original crew are really the core of Star Fox.

And also, each of the original 3 of Fox's teammates are important in their own right.
I'll explain the rest later.

I was thinking of them as being more important than Wolf, actually. However, people like Wolf better than Slippy or Peppy, and popularity plays a factor.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

She's also the main villain of the Metroid Prime sub-series, appearing as the final boss in each game and the main antagonist in two (I'd say the Ing and Dark Aether are the real main antagonist of Metroid Prime 2). Ridley is a recurring boss, but he's never been main villain status; he's more of a nemesis, a super-persistent threat. The only character comparable to Dark Samus in role is Mother Brain, the main villain of Metroid and Super Metroid, and while I love Mother Brain, she's probably not getting in (Although if Sakurai found a way, Mother Brain+Ridley would be awesome).

On a sidenote, I heavily object to Anthony or MB getting in. Both are "flavor of the month" characters who are just in the most recent game, and both also come from the most hated Metroid game. Adam Malkovich at least has more importance to the franchise because of his appearance in Fusion, but people really didn't like him in Other M, and he doesn't exactly have exciting moveset potential.

As far as Ridley having main villain status in a game goes, I'd say that holds true for at least Zero Mission, since the final boss wasn't Mother Brain like in the original, but a robot built out of his likeness and image, with most of the remainder of the game taking place in his ship no less. Just saying. Ironic too that Zero Mission was the most represented Metroid game in Brawl (more-so than any of Retro's work), even if it was mostly because of ZSS.

Way I see it though, MB's probably the closest thing people could get to a playable Mother Brain. Anthony feels like he would be fun to play as in theory (at least more-so than Adam) with that bigass plasma gun, and he seems like the type to be a recurring character in the future, despite how hated the game in which he had his first appearance in was. Wouldn't mind seeing him as an assist trophy too though, and no argument here on the Adam part.

Dark Samus is one of my top wanted characters. Put me on the supporter list.

Hey Venus, here's ur OP Dark Samus image with a transparent background.

Spoiler

I really wish they kept her design from Echoes, she looked more inhuman.

Spoiler

Once my laptop gets fixed prepare for a moveset & color swaps.

As far as appearance goes, I like Dark Samus's transparent form that you face at the end of Echoes the best, which also happens to be the most inhuman looking and resembles Metroid Prime the most.

It's hard to imagine a Zelda game without Link, Zelda, and Ganon/Ganondorf. It's hard to imagine a Metroid game without Samus and Ridley (And Metroids). It's hard to imagine a Mario game without Mario, Bowser, Peach, Toad, and Luigi. But it's rather easy to make a Star Fox game without Wolf.

Not to me. Hell, the games without Wolf weren't nearly as critically or financially successful as the games that had him. Coincidence? I think not.

I was thinking of them as being more important than Wolf, actually. However, people like Wolf better than Slippy or Peppy, and popularity plays a factor.

Whose more important there is subjective. Either way, Wolf made those other two look useless in comparison when he helped Fox with the Aparoids.

 

[Ginamudkipz]

Dark samus should be a unlockable samus costume, so he's not a pure clone.... not that i hate him, but i think it would be like adding dark link...he's in now, but as a costume, it's not that i hate him but that would be like adding dark ...etc

 

[DarkSouls]

The transparent form at the end of Echoes would also look amazing with the Wii U's graphics.

Dark samus should be a unlockable samus costume, so he's not a pure clone.... not that i hate him, but i think it would be like adding dark link...he's in now, but as a costume, it's not that i hate him but that would be like adding dark ...etc

Dark Samus is a female/genderless creature.

Also, you should play Metroid Prime 2 and 3 (Because they're awesome games), or at least watch a video of the Dark Samus boss battles from both games. She isn't like Dark Link.

A costume is better than nothing at all, but I'd prefer a Samus costume to be one of her many suits... A fusion suit costume would be difficult, but it'd be awesome. A dark suit, light suit, or PED suit option is easier, but the Prime series gets no love in Smash (Outside of Orpheon and... Yeah, just Orpheon really).

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Agreed with basically everything you said there, though on the topic of Samus' costumes, if they're gonna have the Fusion Suit as one, they better do the real one as opposed to just having the Fusion Suit's colors on the Varia Suit like in Brawl which turned out real ugly and served as a perfect example of how not to do palette swapping. The Dark Suit was already an alt in Brawl too from what I recall. The black & red Phazon Suit that you get for beating Omega Pirate in the 1st Prime (one of my favorites) could serve as either one of Samus' or Dark Samus' alt colors.

 

[Enlong]

Considering that Dark Samus is almost literally the Metroid Prime inside hue Phazon Suit? Yeah, I would dig that.

 

[Deleted member]

I personally prefer an unique Dark Samus to Ridley. If that happens, count me in.

 

[RedGamer]

no offense, but why are you guys arguing about the likeliness of this character showing up rather than what you would like to see if the character actually DID show up.

just saiyan.

as for the last three posts, that's what we should be talking about. thank you to the three that finally changed the subject.