Elo Ratings in Competitive Melee

[PEEF!]

I'm undecided about pool matches. Many players rightfully use pool matches to warm up. Many players try new characters in pools and underperform in order to test viability of secondaries (Trai's Ganon).

This is no excuse in bracket, but certainly is in pools. However it could be good info.

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

I'm undecided about pool matches. Many players rightfully use pool matches to warm up. Many players try new characters in pools and underperform in order to test viability of secondaries (Trai's Ganon).

This is no excuse in bracket, but certainly is in pools. However it could be good info.

I think if the pools are only used for seeding, this is a viable point. And since it's a per tournament basis, as a TO I would recommend pros playing to win regardless. They can still experiment a little though, since the way we calculate elo a 2-0 or a 2-1 is still calculated as a 1-0 result.

However if the pools are used for elimination, I say definitely rate the pools matches. There's no excuse to not try your hardest if it's elimination.

A good example is the first Event 52 tournament. There were doubles pools, 4 teams in each (5 in some) and top 2 made it out. One pool had Darkrain and Wife, Lambchopz and Colbol, and DarkAtma and Geno (and one other team). I think Chopz and Colbol didn't take the midwest team of Atma and Geno who are relatively unknown outside the midwest seriously. Atma and Geno took 'em out and so did Darkrain and Wife. So a team that was expected to take top 3 in the whole event didn't even make it out of pools.

But really that's their own fault and if somebody did that in singles, it should very well count against their elo, since elo takes no bias into consideration, ONLY results.

 

[DippnDots]

the only issue with pools not being ranked that I can see is national tournaments being irrelevant for lower rated players, their ratings i mean, as they go and won't make it out of pools and thus their rating won't be affected, though that won't really change the current situation where they go and don't make it out of pools and there is no rating system anyways.

perhaps pools shouldn't be rated unless a valid argument for doing so comes up, as it won't change the current reasons for us lower end players to go at all; which to my knowledge still brings good attendance.

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

The argument is to actually get some rated matches in and I'd say it's pretty valid. Each participant should have rated matches, not just the better players that make it out of pools. If the pros don't want to take pools seriously, so what. It's not going to kill them if their elo drops a bit. But for the new players it's not really fair for them to get eliminated in round 1 of pools and not establish an elo (or have their elo's change accordingly). Also it's important to remember that you can still gain points even if you don't make it out of pools. Like if you go 2-6 but you lost to 6 people a lot higher than you and you beat two people higher than you.

 

[Sim]

I support pools to be rated because every game counts in a tourney. If you want to play meaningless games go play friendlies with people elsewhere.

 

[Strong Badam]

yeah if their Elo rating decreases because they're ****ing around in pools then they should either
1. deal with it or
2. not **** around in pools

 

[Fuss]

I think it's a wonderful idea, would give less skilled players something to work at, and they could actually watch their progress via their rating. I could honestly see a system like this working & attracting new players even, you'd be surprised how drawn people are to a system like this, it makes them feel accomplished as it grows.

 

[Sangoku]

Swiss attracts many more newcomers to come to tournaments

What do you mean? Are there any swiss competitive players? (I don't know any, but I'm new to melee).

And the software given in the OP doesn't work for me =(. The list of players is empty.

 

[Strong Badam]

swiss is a style where everyone plays for X number of rounds and you play people with the same score as you. generally in HUGE tourneys it ends up with like 2 or 3 people going undefeated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss-system_tournament

 

[Sangoku]

Oh okay thanks. I'm dumb not to know that lol.

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Not dumb, you just didn't know. Most people that have played Chess know what swiss is.

And Strongbad, in a game like smash with only two possible outcomes I could see a huge tournament ending up with tied players, but only because there weren't enough rounds. It might take some experimentation, but you can definitely make sure there are no multiple undefeated players by having enough rounds. Also if you don't have time to have enough rounds, tie breaker sets can always get this done. In chess, there are three possible outcomes with the inclusion of a draw and since chess has much experience with the Swiss System, they are generally pretty darned good at avoiding multiple perfect scored players.

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

June Supplemental Elo Ratings

Ok guys I crunched the numbers and the new June listings are as follows. There are a few things to keep in mind and a few rules I'm outlining now.
1) Provisional ratings are in effect starting this listing. Provisional ratings are calculated for new players when 75% or more of the players in attendance are already rated. If less than 75% of the players in attendance are rated, new players start at a base elo calculated as exactly the average rating of the rated players in attendance. If provisional ratings are used, opponents with established ratings of the provisional players will have their ratings calculated against a non-changing numerical value equal to the provisional rating the new player established at the event. For example, for all players that played Zantetsu (a player with an established rating), their ratings are calculated on a per-matchup basis after each individual matchup. However for a provisional player such as Akuma, Akuma's rating is not calculated by each matchup, but by a single equation listed below. Each player that played Akuma had their ratings calculated off the exact same rating for Akuma no matter what the previous result was. For example, when I played Zantetsu, both our ratings had changed through the matches we played beforehand, and thus I was probably around 1210 and him around 1110 when that matchup occured and thus our ratings were calculated based off those ratings in real time. However, when I played Akuma the very next round, he had already established his privisional rating as 1123, and thus mine was calculated based off a loss as a player rated around 1220 vs 1123. His did not change at all, because the provisional rating was already established. The purpose of using a provisional ratings method is to avoid strong players entering their first rated even and starting much lower than their strength, and also negatively affecting players of higher ratings just because the new players base is lower than the players they beat. Akuma is a great example of this. He came in and played very well, defeating myself and also Zantetsu. Had he started at a base of 1,000 he would probably be rated around 1060, which isn't nearly as accurate as the 1123 he ended up at. At the same time, Zantetsu and I would both have suffered much larger elo losses unjustly by losing to a player with a lower base than they should have. It's a smart system that allows more accurate tracking of new players and existing players competing against new players.
2) The Provisional rating formula is an adaptation of the performance rating used in chess. It is calculated as:
Provisional rating = [(Total of opponents' ratings + 200 * (Wins - Losses)) / Games]
If two unrated players face off, their ratings will be entered into the equation as the average rating of the rated players in attendance. However, this was decided after I calculated for this tournament, but will be in effect for future ratings supplements. For this event, two unrated players playing eachother calculated their ratings as 1,000.
3) After four months of inactivity, a player will drop off the monthly supplemental list that is posted online. However, their rating is retained in a database for future use should they return to a rated event.

June Supplemental Elo Ratings List for Springfield, MO Melee

Rank Gamertag Elo-Apr Chg Elo-May Record
1 Zivilyn Bane 1215 -19 1196 20-5
2 Sinister 1059 +120 1179 9-2
3 Saberguy 1132 na 1132 5-0
4 Akuma 0 new 1123 4-2
5 Zantetsu 1079 +12 1091 14-8
6 LinkMO 1038 +20 1058 7-4
7 VTS 1055 na 1055 4-2
8 Kellen 1030 na 1030 3-2
9 Terrance 987 +10 997 7-8
10 BoP 1041 -55 986 6-6
11 xzerolegend 1004 -22 982 8-8
12 Yoshiman 978 na 978 1-2
13 Terral 979 -5 974 9-10
14 Tempest 932 +42 974 3-6
15 DrewBear 1011 -42 969 7-8
16 BZA 966 na 966 3-4
17 an honest man 963 na 963 0-2
18 Linkz 994 -38 956 5-8
19 JeBus 953 na 953 0-2
20 Sam 953 na 953 0-2
21 ICE 951 na 951 2-4
22 YBMP 912 na 912 0-4
23 Magic Magnum 0 new 909 1-2
24 Jaws 0 new 908 0-2
25 Ugvts 847 +10 857 1-10
26 Blue 0 new 795 0-2

Once again I'd like to look at a few interesting things to note with the new ratings. For one, three players that competed in the January event were dropped off the list due to inactivity. These players are Kodie (996), Male (975), and Kyle (950). Should these players chose to return at future events their ratings will pick up where they left off.

Blue's rating ended up much much lower than it would have had he started with a base of 1,000. However this is largely due to the fact that he went 0-2 at his first tournament and lost to players rated 979 and 1011. So when you average those two, and take away 200, you get 795. Blue if you read this I don't want you to be discouraged by this. You are definitely better than your rating shows, and with more rated events under your belt it will undoubtedly improve. I didn't even notice it beforehand but this was your first melee singles tournament of the year (not including low-tier).

-Tempest- was ranked 22nd out of 25 before this event but he stepped up and beat two players higher than him and lost to two players higher than him. He was able to jump his rating 42 points and was very close to climbing into the Springfield top 10.

Sinister came in and dominated, jumping up a whopping 120 points! This is the most we've seen all year so kudos to him.

Magic Magnum and Jaws is an interesting case. MM started 1-2 with a win over Jaws, yet only ended up one point higher than Jaws in the end. This is due largely to the fact that Jaws lost to me when I was over 1200. MM's provisional rating formula was brought down by a loss to Ugvts who was rated only 847. All in all it's a pretty accurate measurement as Jaws and MM appeared to be very close in skill, with Jaws being a new Melee player and MM being a Brawl player.

So that's that for the June supplement. Many interesting things going on and I believe we continue to see the elo ratings reflect more and more accurately. The provisional ratings system will no doubt help maintain accuracy in the future as new players continue to compete in Springfield, MO. Any and all questions are welcomed, as well as other interesting observations!

The June supplemental ratings was based off the following bracket:
http://allisbrawl.com/brackets/bracket10535.gif
EloCalc was used to calculate ratings.

 

[Nintendude]

Can anyone help in finding a committed developer for this project?

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

I wouldn't mind being in charge of keeping the database and running the numbers. However I'm no programmer so I'd require better/faster software for input and also seeing as how I'm not the most famous smasher out there, I'd also need help getting the community to commit to this sort of thing.

I do however feel that I have significant enough knowledge, experience, and commitment to be an authoritative figure. I could potentially be nominated the "person in charge" of the elo ratings, and would gladly accept. Heck, I'd even be ok just running the numbers with the current software until something better is developed. I've already ran the numbers on 5 Springfield MO tournaments and feel pretty confident in the accuracy of the ratings to want to make more of a commitment to this.

Is that what you're looking for?

 

[PEEF!]

How has nobody told me my rank yet

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Submit some tournament results with your name in them.

 

[DippnDots]

peefs rank = 1336, close but no cigar bud ;p

 

[Tirno]

Can anyone help in finding a committed developer for this project?

I'd be willing to lend a hand, though my experience in programming something with a GUI is somewhat limited. You can hit me up on AIM to talk about it.

 

[Todd Bonney]

I want this. think it would be cool and would likely serve the purpose of promoting attendance and competition.

Shoutout to mah doo Cobalt for the software.

Now to completely sidetrack the conversation for a while. Could this be used to rate characters, and get us yet another tier list or matchup chart? Say a low-rated Character X main beats high rated Character Y main, stuff like that ... with lots of data, something useful may come up.

 

[Acryte]

More so it would provide data and history on a players character matchup strengths and weaknesses, that is, if we incorporated the characters selected and stage selected into the match info. Then we can say well ****, his fox is real good against lots of really good falcos, but its weaker against character X. I'm pretty good with character X, lemme try that out... or you could use it as a legitimate counter-picking tool for characters and stages.

If the database was up and running and we included character info for the matches then I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to make some kinda scouting tool or bot for an irc channel etc. Then you could even use it to scout your next matchup in tourney from your phone if they were ranked in ELO. You could see for example "Who are the lowest ELO players to beat them, with what character, and on what stage." You could note from the data that it didn't really matter what stage, but they lost against decently lower ELO falcons more significantly than any other character.

It could also provide some cool statistical info charts and the like for showing things like which players are best in certain matchups based off of, for example, who appears from the data to be the hardest player to play against with a certain character. Like AXE's pikachu is hands down probably the hardest pikachu to face as a high level fox. Then you look at which fox players perform the best against him and can even choose to parse out regionally similar players (most experience to learn the player) or note the regional similarity. Each player in the table could also list the tournament name. Then you could go watch the matches if you wanted to analyze them.

 

[DippnDots]

what exactly do you need programmers for now? I'd be able to help in two senses, I could take a look at how the program runs and offer advice on how to make it run more efficiently, or if there are still functions to be programmed I could set that up, i'd just need to be briefed more thoroughly on how the system works (elo system not the program)

 

[Nintendude]

Just so everyone knows, we have two programmers who just started working on putting this together. I'll post any news regarding this project here!

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Springfield July Supplemental Ratings List

Ok guys! I finished doing the ratings finally! Had to do them twice this month. The reason being because I did 'em last night, then found out today that the wrong result was recorded between the match of Kellen vs Blitz in pools. Just to give an idea of how important accurate results are, that ONE match changed the end result elo of nearly every player in the event!

Ok so this month is a very interesting one for several reasons. For one, we had not only a very large turnout this month, but also a large showing of talented players like Spaceballs and Atma. Because of that it really put the elo system to the test to accurately track new players that are obviously strong.

We DID include pools, and for several reasons. For one, rating pools allows the system to have a much more accurate end result, and it shows. For already rated players, pools had to be rated using a different system than brackets. The reason is simple. In brackets, matches are rated individually in chronological order. Basically all winners bracket matches are recorded first, then losers, then grand finals. This keeps accuracy up and randomness down. However in pools, there's no way to tell which match takes place when. So because of that, I used the USCF Ratings Calculator Tool to rate pools. So each player in a pools match is rated against their opponents rating from the beginning of the tournament. It's a very awesome way to do it because it allows them to be accurately rated without having to know which match took place when. Also, I discussed with Strong Bad a little bit and he had an idea. Well as we all know, there's not much way to tell the result of a bracket match, whether it was 2-1, 2-0, 3-1, 3-2, ect. However in pools, each match is recorded accordingly. So because of that, we were able to achieve even more accuracy by giving players a .33 win for a 1-2 result. Players that won 2-1 were not suffered a penalty and thus were still granted a full point win. The system really works! For this event I posted ratings before pools, after pools, and after brackets so you can really see how well it tracks the players. For unrated players, I used a new rule that states the following: If 50% or more of a pool is rated, the average rating of the players in the pool will supplement matches played against unrated players, and unrated players will start with a rating calculated by the USCF provisional rating formula. If 50% or less of a pool is already rated, all unrated players will be represented by the base rating of 1,000; and unrated players will start with a rating calculated by the USCF provisional rating formula. So for example.
In pool 1 the previously rated players were Zivilyn Bane (1196), SaberGuy (1132), Terry (997). The unrated players were Atma, G. Vice, and Sam (F). So the way we calculated new players was with this formula:
Provisional rating = [(Total of opponents' ratings + 200 * (Wins - Losses)) / Games]
So, to take the total, first we average the rated players. We get 1108. Then we do the math.
1308 = [(1108 + 200 * (5 - 0)) / 5]
And that's how we calculate ratings for new players in pools.

For existing players, we go to the USCF Ratings Calculator Tool and fill it out. For each unrated player an established player plays, we enter the average of the rated players in the pool. It works really well and just look at the results, incredibly accurate!

And of course, it's always important to remember that even though they are accurate, they are not perfect. Spaceballs is most likely the 2nd best player on that list. But always remember that Elo shows no bias, and Spaceballs lost to Sinister in pools and also to G. Vice once and Atma once. It's all about who you beat and who you lost to. So check it out and please share your thoughts.

Rank Gamertag Elo-Jun Pools Elo Bracket Elo-Jul Record
1 DarkAtma 0 na 1308 +75 1383 10-0
2 dmac 0 na 1248 +0 1248 9-2
3 Sinister 1179 +93 1272 -30 1242 16-4
4 G. Vice 0 na 1228 +13 1241 8-3
5 Spaceballs 0 na 1131 +99 1230 9-3
6 Jace 0 na 1182 +1 1183 9-2
7 Akuma 1123 +63 1186 -32 1154 9-6
8 Saberguy 1132 +28 1160 -11 1149 11-4
9 VTS 1055 +12 1067 +80 1147 11-7
10 Zivilyn Bane 1196 -27 1169 -41 1128 23-10
11 Blitz 0 na 1115 +11 1126 7-4
12 Geno 0 na 1102 -29 1073 5-3
13 Zantetsu 1091 -4 1087 -17 1070 19-12
14 Strong Bad 0 na 1022 +35 1057 6-4
15 BoP 986 na 986 na 986 6-6
16 xzerolegend 982 na 982 na 982 8-8
17 Tempest 974 na 974 na 974 3-6
18 DrewBear 969 na 969 na 969 7-8
19 Kellen 1030 -7 1023 -55 968 6-7
20 Bert 1058 -59 999 -32 967 8-11
21 BZA 966 na 966 na 966 3-4
22 Terry 997 -25 972 -8 964 9-14
23 an honest man 963 na 963 na 963 0-2
24 Yoshiman 978 -11 967 -5 962 4-7
25 Linkz 956 na 956 na 956 5-8
26 Sam 953 na 953 na 953 0-2
27 ICE 951 na 951 na 951 2-4
28 Terral 974 -28 946 -4 942 11-17
29 Seif 0 na 942 -12 930 3-5
30 Sam (F) 0 na 908 +20 928 2-7
31 Magic Magnum 909 na 909 na 909 1-2
32 Jaws 908 na 908 na 908 0-2
33 Arby 0 na 862 +18 880 2-6
34 Quote 0 na 891 -29 862 1-6
35 Ugvts 857 na 857 na 857 1-10
36 YBMP 912 -86 826 -25 801 0-11
37 Red 795 -34 761 -22 739 0-9

Pathways June Pools
Pathways June Brackets
Pathways June Results


Players this month removed due to inactivity: JeBus (953)
Name changes this month: Blue = Red; Terrence = Terry; LinkMO = Bert

 

[Vts]

Ok guys! I finished doing the ratings finally! Had to do them twice this month. The reason being because I did 'em last night, then found out today that the wrong result was recorded between the match of Kellen vs Blitz in pools. Just to give an idea of how important accurate results are, that ONE match changed the end result elo of nearly every player in the event!

Ok so this month is a very interesting one for several reasons. For one, we had not only a very large turnout this month, but also a large showing of talented players like Spaceballs and Atma. Because of that it really put the elo system to the test to accurately track new players that are obviously strong.

We DID include pools, and for several reasons. For one, rating pools allows the system to have a much more accurate end result, and it shows. For already rated players, pools had to be rated using a different system than brackets. The reason is simple. In brackets, matches are rated individually in chronological order. Basically all winners bracket matches are recorded first, then losers, then grand finals. This keeps accuracy up and randomness down. However in pools, there's no way to tell which match takes place when. So because of that, I used the USCF Ratings Calculator Tool to rate pools. So each player in a pools match is rated against their opponents rating from the beginning of the tournament. It's a very awesome way to do it because it allows them to be accurately rated without having to know which match took place when. Also, I discussed with Strong Bad a little bit and he had an idea. Well as we all know, there's not much way to tell the result of a bracket match, whether it was 2-1, 2-0, 3-1, 3-2, ect. However in pools, each match is recorded accordingly. So because of that, we were able to achieve even more accuracy by giving players a .33 win for a 1-2 result. Players that won 2-1 were not suffered a penalty and thus were still granted a full point win. The system really works! For this event I posted ratings before pools, after pools, and after brackets so you can really see how well it tracks the players. For unrated players, I used a new rule that states the following: If 50% or more of a pool is rated, the average rating of the players in the pool will supplement matches played against unrated players, and unrated players will start with a rating calculated by the USCF provisional rating formula. If 50% or less of a pool is already rated, all unrated players will be represented by the base rating of 1,000; and unrated players will start with a rating calculated by the USCF provisional rating formula. So for example.
In pool 1 the previously rated players were Zivilyn Bane (1196), SaberGuy (1132), Terry (997). The unrated players were Atma, G. Vice, and Sam (F). So the way we calculated new players was with this formula:
Provisional rating = [(Total of opponents' ratings + 200 * (Wins - Losses)) / Games]
So, to take the total, first we average the rated players. We get 1108. Then we do the math.
1308 = [(1108 + 200 * (5 - 0)) / 5]
And that's how we calculate ratings for new players in pools.

For existing players, we go to the USCF Ratings Calculator Tool and fill it out. For each unrated player an established player plays, we enter the average of the rated players in the pool. It works really well and just look at the results, incredibly accurate!

And of course, it's always important to remember that even though they are accurate, they are not perfect. Spaceballs is most likely the 2nd best player on that list. But always remember that Elo shows no bias, and Spaceballs lost to Sinister in pools and also to G. Vice once and Atma once. It's all about who you beat and who you lost to. So check it out and please share your thoughts.

Rank Gamertag Elo-Jun Pools Elo Bracket Elo-Jul Record
1 DarkAtma 0 na 1308 +75 1383 10-0
2 dmac 0 na 1248 +0 1248 9-2
3 Sinister 1179 +93 1272 -30 1242 16-4
4 G. Vice 0 na 1228 +13 1241 8-3
5 Spaceballs 0 na 1131 +99 1230 9-3
6 Jace 0 na 1182 +1 1183 9-2
7 Akuma 1123 +63 1186 -32 1154 9-6
8 Saberguy 1132 +28 1160 -11 1149 11-4
9 VTS 1055 +12 1067 +80 1147 11-7
10 Zivilyn Bane 1196 -27 1169 -41 1128 23-10
11 Blitz 0 na 1115 +11 1126 7-4
12 Geno 0 na 1102 -29 1073 5-3
13 Zantetsu 1091 -4 1087 -17 1070 19-12
14 Strong Bad 0 na 1022 +35 1057 6-4
15 BoP 986 na 986 na 986 6-6
16 xzerolegend 982 na 982 na 982 8-8
17 Tempest 974 na 974 na 974 3-6
18 DrewBear 969 na 969 na 969 7-8
19 Kellen 1030 -7 1023 -55 968 6-7
20 Bert 1058 -59 999 -32 967 8-11
21 BZA 966 na 966 na 966 3-4
22 Terry 997 -25 972 -8 964 9-14
23 an honest man 963 na 963 na 963 0-2
24 Yoshiman 978 -11 967 -5 962 4-7
25 Linkz 956 na 956 na 956 5-8
26 Sam 953 na 953 na 953 0-2
27 ICE 951 na 951 na 951 2-4
28 Terral 974 -28 946 -4 942 11-17
29 Seif 0 na 942 -12 930 3-5
30 Sam (F) 0 na 908 +20 928 2-7
31 Magic Magnum 909 na 909 na 909 1-2
32 Jaws 908 na 908 na 908 0-2
33 Arby 0 na 862 +18 880 2-6
34 Quote 0 na 891 -29 862 1-6
35 Ugvts 857 na 857 na 857 1-10
36 YBMP 912 -86 826 -25 801 0-11
37 Red 795 -34 761 -22 739 0-9

Pathways June Pools
Pathways June Brackets
Pathways June Results


Players this month removed due to inactivity: JeBus (953)
Name changes this month: Blue = Red; Terrence = Terry; LinkMO = Bert

going to hate on this since jaces only loses were against me and i'm lower lol, jk <3

also just to give some insight to people about the ratings they might be off since it's just 1 tournament and some people gave up matches to get the tournament going (pretty sure i was the only one cus i didn't care about my rating but now seeing how much it made me lose i'm one sad panda lol)

but so far the system is working great , wish we had more places doing this

 

[Strong Badam]

why did you quote that entire post XD

 

[PEEF!]

LOL @ Sinister's placement

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Strong Bad: Why not quote the entire post? Look at my previous updates, I always share a little insight on how I calculate the results.

VTS: Quit johning about forfeiting a match lol. Look at the people above you. Most of them are either better than you, had a better performance, or beat you. Jace is higher because like you said, he only lost two matches the entire tournament. Overall you gained 92 points and that's pretty legit. But you have to understand the way elo works. Just because you beat somebody doesn't instantly make you better or higher rated. It's one of the many qualities of elo and how it can track matchups. Because Jace and you are likely equal level of skill, but you obviously know the matchup better.

Peef: What's wrong with Sinisters placement? He's 3rd. At the tourney, he lost to dmac and VTS. Sheik vs ICs is hard, you should know that. However he could have won the set without a 24% sd on battlefield. He repeatedly ***** Spaceballs not only in pools 2-0, but in several friendlies back to back. He was able to dispatch G. Vice in crews. So there is absolutely nothing wrong with him and he could very well be the 3rd best on the list as his elo indicates. In all actuality he's probably around the 5th best on there, but he has three rated tournaments while Jace only has 1.

 

[PEEF!]

Strong Bad: Why not quote the entire post? Look at my previous updates, I always share a little insight on how I calculate the results.

VTS: Quit johning about forfeiting a match lol. Look at the people above you. Most of them are either better than you, had a better performance, or beat you. Jace is higher because like you said, he only lost two matches the entire tournament. Overall you gained 92 points and that's pretty legit. But you have to understand the way elo works. Just because you beat somebody doesn't instantly make you better or higher rated. It's one of the many qualities of elo and how it can track matchups. Because Jace and you are likely equal level of skill, but you obviously know the matchup better.

Peef: What's wrong with Sinisters placement? He's 3rd. At the tourney, he lost to dmac and VTS. Sheik vs ICs is hard, you should know that. However he could have won the set without a 24% sd on battlefield. He repeatedly ***** Spaceballs not only in pools 2-0, but in several friendlies back to back. He was able to dispatch G. Vice in crews. So there is absolutely nothing wrong with him and he could very well be the 3rd best on the list as his elo indicates. In all actuality he's probably around the 5th best on there, but he has three rated tournaments while Jace only has 1.

I beat Sinister at SMYM can I get ranked plz

Crew results count?

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

I beat Sinister at SMYM can I get ranked plz

Crew results count?

That's hilariously odd considering he's never been to a SMYM. Also, no crews are not considered. Only singles.

But seriously, feel free to link me to some brackets. I'll be happy to run the numbers and incorporate you guys into our lists.

That goes for anybody else as well.

 

[-Sinister-]

LOL @ Sinister's placement

hey come to MIST and $50 mm.

edit: and what is this about you beating me at smym? didn't go. to ANY of them.

 

[eet]

hey I'm a software developer(deal with C#, SQL/XSLT implementation, and javascript mostly) and I am long-time Louisiana smasher. Do you guys still need any assistance; is there a git-hub or something?

 

[Strong Badam]

Strong Bad: Why not quote the entire post? Look at my previous updates, I always share a little insight on how I calculate the results.

it makes the page really long. It'd be like me posting a reply to the Fox guide by quoting the entire damn post.

 

[Vts]

hey come to MIST and $50 mm.

edit: and what is this about you beating me at smym? didn't go. to ANY of them.

can i side bet?

like i put $20 on sinister , love your sheik to much bro, i got lucky your really too good .

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

it makes the page really long. It'd be like me posting a reply to the Fox guide by quoting the entire damn post.

Makes a lot more sense now. I thought your first comment was in reference to me, for adding all the extra thoughts and stuff about the list. But it now appears as though you were posting that in reply to VTS.

Ok I need some help here. I'm going to be working on running the numbers for a few recent large tournaments, to get more players established ratings that aren't in our community. However these are some tournies with some huge names. I hardly think it would be accurate to start M2K, HBox, and others with the same base rating of 1,000 that the Springfield crew started with. Is there any balanced, fair, and mathematical ideas that anybody has to increase base rating either for certain people, region, event size, ect? Like maybe "EC starts with base of 1400" or "This list of players gets a 500 point bonus." Something that wouldn't be the cause of argument and would increase the accuracy of the system altogether.

 

[-Sinister-]

can i side bet?

like i put $20 on sinister , love your sheik to much bro, i got lucky your really too good .

i 'ppreciate that although you didn't get lucky. won fair and squares.

 

[Nintendude]

Ok I need some help here. I'm going to be working on running the numbers for a few recent large tournaments, to get more players established ratings that aren't in our community. However these are some tournies with some huge names. I hardly think it would be accurate to start M2K, HBox, and others with the same base rating of 1,000 that the Springfield crew started with. Is there any balanced, fair, and mathematical ideas that anybody has to increase base rating either for certain people, region, event size, ect? Like maybe "EC starts with base of 1400" or "This list of players gets a 500 point bonus." Something that wouldn't be the cause of argument and would increase the accuracy of the system altogether.

I think it kind of depends on what you are going for. If you plan assimilating your midwest ratings into the international ratings system when that's ready, you need to start them at 1000 like everyone else. If you plan on keeping it localized and starting from scratch when it goes international, then you can do whatever you want really. I don't think there's any good mathematical justification.

 

[PEEF!]

hey come to MIST and $50 mm.

edit: and what is this about you beating me at smym? didn't go. to ANY of them.

Okay then where did I play you.... Oh it was HDR.

You know I beat you, I was just mistaken on where it was no need to try to hide it. You played well and you are not a bad player, you even beat my buddy TheNumberJay but neither you nor I deserve to be at the top of those ratings. You shouldnt get salty and act like I was mistaken about winning when I'm merely pointing out the...may I say misleading results this system has produced thus far.

PS: Your red falcon at E-52(2) was my first tournament win back in the day when you went by Unknown.

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

LOL @ Peef being such a noob he things a tournament result from two years ago means anything at all.

Listen dude, the lists I put out are based off of results from the Springfield tournaments, where Sinister consistently performs and does well. Why is that concept so hard for you to grasp? Let me explain one last time:

THE LISTS I PUT OUT ARE FROM THE SPRINGFIELD TOURNAMENTS ONLY AT THIS POINT IN TIME. YOU CAN ONLY BE RATED BY PLAYING IN A RATED EVENT. IF YOU WOULD LIKE YOUR EVENT TO BE RATED, PLEASE SUBMIT THE POOLS/BRACKETS TO ME AND I'LL GLADLY RUN THEM FOR YOU AND INCLUDE THEM IN MY MONTHLY LISTS.

 

[-Sinister-]

Okay then where did I play you.... Oh it was HDR.

You know I beat you, I was just mistaken on where it was no need to try to hide it. You played well and you are not a bad player, you even beat my buddy TheNumberJay but neither you nor I deserve to be at the top of those ratings. You shouldnt get salty and act like I was mistaken about winning when I'm merely pointing out the...may I say misleading results this system has produced thus far.

PS: Your red falcon at E-52(2) was my first tournament win back in the day when you went by Unknown.

yes you did beat me at a tournament long ago. and on a separate note i'm surprised you remember all that. next time just don't say something that's implying someone is a bad player when you don't even know cuz you haven't played me in a long *** time.

ps: no i don't think i'm the best player in the world

 

[PEEF!]

yes you did beat me at a tournament long ago. and on a separate note i'm surprised you remember all that. next time just don't say something that's implying someone is a bad player when you don't even know cuz you haven't played me in a long *** time.

ps: no i don't think i'm the best player in the world

I also beat you at a St. Louis tournament in pools, I think it was HD Remix and it was not long ago whatsoever.