Elma for Smash Ultimate: Strength comes from experience. That’s true on any planet.

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah, more people in the thread are calling the leak dead now

 

[aarchak]

Woo, the leak died in a day. Now we really can get to the Elma hype.

 

[Luviant X]

I think it says alot the Nintendo Ninjas haven't been dispatched yet like they were immediately for the ESRB leak. Instead, they've been on the sidelines relaxing.

 

[aarchak]

Dammit, the ride's not over. The leaker has been shown to work at a different company named ACP, not Marina, and they also do the same sort of thing. Guess we still have to wait and see.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...sponse_from_marina_plv_company_where/e8f6dun/

 

[ColtonS25]

You know, it's going to be annoying trying to deal with people when this leak is proven fake. If Elma gets in, the salt will be real. Right now, I'm about 50/50 on it. It does look convincing, but there are numerous issues with it. I think that the longer Nintendo goes without acknowledging it, the better odds that it's a fake.

 

[Luviant X]

We might not be able to completely prove or disprove it until Nintendo announces more characters. If the leak is fake, which I still think it is, whoever did it put in a ton of work. So unfortunately, this ride may continue longer than we'd like.

 

[KatKit]

Mach Rider really grew on me (especially if there's a selectable male/female version). I always supported Ken and Isaac. Don't care about the rest, but I am a fan of the OG Banjo games.

With that being said, in a perfect world, the leak would be cool if it was incomplete. Imagine it being debunked with a random character or two not on the list? Then the fandom explodes. Then all of the mural leak characters get revealed back-to-back too because why not? It was real and fake simultaneously?! An elaborate hoax? Then everyone thinks they know the entire roster now, but then we get a couple of surprise reveals right before the game releases. People would freak out while Nintendo laughs and swims in money, as all things should be.

Anyway, I'm still optimistic about Elma's chances. Like I said earlier in this thread, if she isn't in the base game, there's always DLC. Or 'Dee-L-C', as Waddle Dee fans would put it.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Dammit, the ride's not over. The leaker has been shown to work at a different company named ACP, not Marina, and they also do the same sort of thing. Guess we still have to wait and see.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...sponse_from_marina_plv_company_where/e8f6dun/

Not that it is surprising, if you are a graphic designer and you change company you would go to another place that gives you a work as a graphic designer.

The thing that many supporters of this leak "forget" to say is that this new company, ACP, is way smaller than the other and has been in business for barely 20 years, so it is relatively young to work on big secretive projects for some multinational gaming company. And in fact there are no proofs that this company has any tie with Nintendo, Bandai Namco or even Illumination, which when you consider that what gave credibility to the leak was the connection between Marine, Bandai Namco and Illumination for the Grinch renders, it kinda hurts the chances of this leak being real.


EDIT: ArtsyOmni did a much better analysis about the background that I could ever do, if you are interested:

 

[The_Intruder]

Still wondering why there still no content about Xenoblade, I can't imagine this game without any new content from this franchise. We still don't know what was the secret project of Sawano... I can't imagine the reaction of xenoblade fans if there is nothing new in this smash but some "fan favorite things" get in. I've the same feeling as How Smash 4 has ended with ESRB leak and it was the worst smash ever made for me (Calling it Tr4sh), but I guess this time if there is no Elma / Kos mos / Dante / Monster hunter I'm gonna just let it go and play another game instead of years of hatred lol. There still hope but the hope is fading in everyday (especially seeing the mech toy could be for Mach rider too, I didn't know about that).

But if she is not in the base roster I guess it's over with Xenoblade 2 + Torna and still no Xenoblade X port in a near future.

 

[RawkHawk2010]

Oh hey I was right.

...whoops.

The leak is too real to be fake. R.I.P. Elma but hopefully she gets a trophy or something.

 

[Coofle DeDoofle]

Not having Elma isn't a deal-breaker for me, but I'd rather have her make it in somehow. Heck, any XBX content would be fine at this point.

 

[Bobthealligator]

...whoops.

The leak is too real to be fake. R.I.P. Elma but hopefully she gets a trophy or something.

I disagree, though I will admit I gave up on Elma a while ago. 7 newcomers, over the course of a month, when we've had a drought all through October, and all the gaming events which could have had announcements but didn't. It just seems off. Plus there is the issue that the background is almost completely off, Eric Brickard works at a different company now (also 100% still has his job, he'd have already been fired if there were any truth to this), the Grinch promo is unexplained as they don't seem to be working with ACP.

 

[Calamitas]

...whoops.

The leak is too real to be fake. R.I.P. Elma but hopefully she gets a trophy or something.

Of course she's going to get a trophy. She gets the same kind of trophy that every fighter gets, the one for beating Classic Mode.

 

[IronWarrior94]

Again, I shouldn't complain because I got Ridley, but this really sucks. Honestly, if Xenoblade Chronicles X wasn't treated as the butt monkey of the Xenoblade franchise, I wouldn't have minded if Elma won't be in the game. I mainly want her in because I want vindication against the fans who hate on X too hard.

 

[Luviant X]

...whoops.

The leak is too real to be fake. R.I.P. Elma but hopefully she gets a trophy or something.

1. Elma doesn't need a new stage to be a newcomer.

2. As mentioned before, there still could be 108 stages. Corocoro could have jumped the gun and changed it back to 103 until Nintendo themselves announce it. And heck, if the Grinch leak is real, it'd make more sense to have 108 if 7 more newcomers are really coming.

3. "The leak is too real to be fake"? I beg to differ. Especially with many insiders and people like Artsy Omni, Spawnwave, Gamexplain, and more being on Team Fake. The leak could be real, but there's enough questionable things about it to have reasonable doubt.

 

[SebasSancy]

If the leak is true, there's always hope for DLC! Elma needs to be in the game

 

[Deleted member]

An Elma/Rex dual reveal for dlc is my dream come true tbh

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Maybe if we’re lucky Elma and Rex could be the first DLC announced

 

[Bobthealligator]

1. Elma doesn't need a new stage to be a newcomer.

2. As mentioned before, there still could be 108 stages. Corocoro could have jumped the gun and changed it back to 103 until Nintendo themselves announce it. And heck, if the Grinch leak is real, it'd make more sense to have 108 if 7 more newcomers are really coming.

3. "The leak is too real to be fake"? I beg to differ. Especially with many insiders and people like Artsy Omni, Spawnwave, Gamexplain, and more being on Team Fake. The leak could be real, but there's enough questionable things about it to have reasonable doubt.

Also bare in mind, Omni was on team real until he looked into it further, so that adds to the idea it's probably fake.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Also this may just be straw grasping on my part but what if the “Mach Rider” is actually Elma and we can’t tell cause of how blurry it is? Doubt it tho

 

[Condenir]

I think either way, the leak being real or fake, Elma won’t be making it into the base roster. I just really don’t think there would be a reason to hold her back for so long, as sad as it makes me;(
Also, regarding DLC...I remember during the speculation for sm4sh DLC, everyone was saying “dixie, Ridley, k.rool, BWD”...but it was all just cut veterans and 3rd parties. If this leak IS true, hopefully the DLC doesn’t follow the same pattern because 4/7 newcomers will be third party(which honestly kind of annoys me but whatever)...I think it would be an injustice to Nintendo to not include larger NINTENDO reps like Elma, dixie, BWD, Rex, springman and a Pokemon. But I guess we can’t get greedy and I’ll just pretend that Zelda is a newcomer with her hopeful huge increase in viability and redesign

 

[Deleted member]

i will only accept elma in smash if everytime she jumps dont worry starts playing for 0.5 seconds until she lands again

 

[Calamitas]

You know, funny thing, though. Before this entire Grinch thing, I was really hoping that Vergeben was proven false, because people would not shut up about him. Now however, I'm far more in favour of him being right, because for one thing, people talk about the Grinch thing even more, and for another, because with him there were at least empty spots.

 

[Coofle DeDoofle]

You know, funny thing, though. Before this entire Grinch thing, I was really hoping that Vergeben was proven false, because people would not shut up about him. Now however, I'm far more in favour of him being right, because for one thing, people talk about the Grinch thing even more, and for another, because with him there were at least empty spots.

Eh, with all that we're getting with it and the possibility of DLC, I support the Grinch leak more than Verge. That guy honestly needs to be taken down a peg.

 

[Bobthealligator]

While I'm still not a believer per say, there is a lot of strange unexplained stuff which does line up.

 

[Wisehunter]

So how are we standing now?

I read some people saying the background on the leak matches the background on the bus being used by Nintendo, something like that. Was this been debunked?

Was Nintendo been contacted or tried to take down anything related to this leak? Would they do it?

Is this supposed to be the complete roster or could it be art for just part of it?

Has Vergeben spoke anything about this leak?


Geez, I just want to see Elma already.

 

[RidleyKraid187]

Even if Elma's not in the base roster, I AT LEAST hope we still get a Xenoblade x stage anyways- if Corocoro is still to be believed, we have 5 stages left, and if Grinch is to be believed, a Banjo, Golden Sun, and maybe a Rhythm Heaven Stage are likely in, leaving possibly two more potential stages left (Mach Rider might not get one since classic games don't always get Stages right away, like Duck Hunt. Geno might not get one since he's a Mario character, and Shadow and Ken wouldn't get stages since they're probably echoes.)

Even if we just wind up getting music on Gaur Plain.... Don't overlook Xenoblade X, SmUsh!

 

[Nonno Umby]

So how are we standing now?

"I read some people saying the background on the leak matches the background on the bus being used by Nintendo, something like that. Was this been debunked?"

-As far as I can tell it has been debunked since the argument was about MegaMan's position, but the bus is using the version without Isabelle so it isn't updated.

"Was Nintendo been contacted or tried to take down anything related to this leak? Would they do it?"

-No, and it doesn't matter since they wouldn't comment on this even if it was fake.

"Is this supposed to be the complete roster or could it be art for just part of it?"

-It should be the final roster considering how it is printed for promoting a game which is almost just a month to release.

"Has Vergeben spoke anything about this leak?"

-Yes, and he basically said that the leak is fake since it lacks Incineroar, but he also stated that since he doesn't know the whole roster he can't deny that any of those character is actually in. While the leak itself is still fake, it doesn't deconfirm those characters (obviously, just think of that fake Palutena 3DS leak).

"Geez, I just want to see Elma already."

-Yep, I couldn't agree more. Especially since once she is in the game I literally have all my most wanted in so that I can leave Smash speculation for good. This hype cycle really showed how toxic and childish some people might be in this fanbase, whenever they try to defend or take down a theory or leak not with logic and fairness but with personal attacks, acting as the smug genius kid and insulting each other. And honestly I'm just too tired of this for sticking any longer once everyone I want is in.

 

[Calamitas]

Honestly, if Elma doesn't make it in, then the various teases in XBC2 are gonna be just weird in retrospective.
I mean, she specifically got a reveal trailer when no other DLC Blade did (not even Shulk and Fiora), had a unique boss fight with Uncontrollable playing, the entire "everyone is here"-Xenoblade moment, the Nopon archsage specifically saying that it's everyone's dream to see Shulk and Elma together in one place (specifically excluding Rex and Fiora), her entire affinity chart chats that familiarizes players more with her, even if they haven't played X. . . and all this for what? I mean, an X port has apparently gotten less likely, and the new Monolith Soft project probably won't come out for, I dunno, three years or so?
If she doesn't make it into Smash, did Monolith Soft really just do all this for the hell of it? I mean, even if she was only an Assist Trophy, that'd still be a lot of stuff for just that, especially when you consider that for Rodin they had just one small tease in the Switch version of Bayonetta 2.

Yep, I couldn't agree more. Especially since once she is in the game I literally have all my most wanted in so that I can leave Smash speculation for good. This hype cycle really showed how toxic and childish some people might be in this fanbase, whenever they try to defend or take down a theory or leak not with logic and fairness but with personal attacks, acting as the smug genius kid and insulting each other. And honestly I'm just too tired of this for sticking any longer once everyone I want is in.

Oh, that's a mood. Though to be honest, I already thought that I couldn't be happier back when Shulk made it into Smash 4. . . but then XBC2 happened, left a bitter taste in my mouth, and me wanting for X to get some vindication. So here I am again, clamoring for a Xenoblade character to make it into Smash, while everyone says it won't happen. At least Shulk had the Gematsu leak to back him up. . .

 

[Luviant X]

So how are we standing now?

I read some people saying the background on the leak matches the background on the bus being used by Nintendo, something like that. Was this been debunked?

Was Nintendo been contacted or tried to take down anything related to this leak? Would they do it?

Is this supposed to be the complete roster or could it be art for just part of it?

Has Vergeben spoke anything about this leak?


Geez, I just want to see Elma already.

Not enough information has been given to debunk or confirm it.

No word from Nintendo, which I believe is a strike against the leak. Nintendo wasted no time in damage control when the ESRB leak hit the internet for Smash 4. But for the Grinch Leak? We've heard nothing but crickets from Nintendo thus far.

The banner is conveniently blurry, which is one of the biggest reasons why we can't confirm or debunk it. It's because we can't see it. Which I'd say is another strike against the leak. Why is it blurry? The leaker showed his name and company, but blurred the actual banner?

Verge has only said the leak is missing Incineroar, who he is confident is in.

What makes the leak possible is that whoever made this would have had to put in an insane amount of work. Then there's the image of the Grinch's back, and a few other reasons that make it convincing.

And really, alot of people are believing it because we ALL want this to be real. This would be like Christmas. Longtime fan faves such as Isaac, Chorus Kids, Geno, Banjo, etc. would all be in and everyone would be happy! Even us Elma fans, most of us being content with this roster and have turned our hopes to dlc. You hear alot of people saying, "I'd be okay with this roster even though Elma, Skull Kid, etc. aren't in. Maybe they'll be in for dlc!" That's how good this leak's roster is. Everyone is content with it. Makes it fishy, even though this IS Ultimate. It'd be surprising there are 7-8 more characters left after what Sakurai has said.

So after these past several days, we don't know if it's real or not. Most insiders are saying it's fake. Though, we likely won't find out for sure until the Smash direct.

*breathes* I think that's the gist of everything lol

Tldr: We have no idea.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Some insider on twitter said that Incineroar was missing AND there will be a unique newcomer trailer with two characters. It’s a given both HAVE to be from the same series. I doubt it’ll be any of the characters on the banner (esp since Chorus Kids and Banjo-Kazooie count as one character each)

What if...Rex/Pyra are SOMEHOW on base and we get Elma in that trailer too???

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Some insider on twitter said that Incineroar was missing AND there will be a unique newcomer trailer with two characters. It’s a given both HAVE to be from the same series. I doubt it’ll be any of the characters on the banner (esp since Chorus Kids and Banjo-Kazooie count as one character each)

What if...Rex/Pyra are SOMEHOW on base and we get Elma in that trailer too???

I have been gone all day. Can you please provide a link to said tweet?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I have been gone all day. Can you please provide a link to said tweet?

Here it is:

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Here it is:

Hmm... Interesting. I've never heard of this person before--I'm not going to blindly believe what they said, but I'll keep this rumor in mind.

What are they known for?

 

[Deleted member]

Some insider on twitter said that Incineroar was missing AND there will be a unique newcomer trailer with two characters. It’s a given both HAVE to be from the same series. I doubt it’ll be any of the characters on the banner (esp since Chorus Kids and Banjo-Kazooie count as one character each)

What if...Rex/Pyra are SOMEHOW on base and we get Elma in that trailer too???

Were there ever any Smash reveal trailers that weren't the first trailer that had two characters from differing franchises?

 

[jimbozo]

Some insider on twitter said that Incineroar was missing AND there will be a unique newcomer trailer with two characters. It’s a given both HAVE to be from the same series. I doubt it’ll be any of the characters on the banner (esp since Chorus Kids and Banjo-Kazooie count as one character each)

What if...Rex/Pyra are SOMEHOW on base and we get Elma in that trailer too???

Were there ever any Smash reveal trailers that weren't the first trailer that had two characters from differing franchises?

Nope, never. All double-reveal trailers were strictly same-series characters (Robin & Lucina, Paultena & Dark Pit, Charizard & Greninja, Simon & Richter), which heavily supports the idea that it can't be one of the characters in the banner (unless they have another fighter/echo that isn't in the banner/we can't see)
The questions are, could there have been enough time to develop Rex, and is this person even a reliable source?

 

[PsySmasher]

Some insider on twitter said that Incineroar was missing AND there will be a unique newcomer trailer with two characters. It’s a given both HAVE to be from the same series. I doubt it’ll be any of the characters on the banner (esp since Chorus Kids and Banjo-Kazooie count as one character each)

What if...Rex/Pyra are SOMEHOW on base and we get Elma in that trailer too???

I honestly don't think Rex/Pyra would make the base roster. It's still a case of "they're too new", since the timing of Ultimate's finalized project plan was still pretty early in XC2's development.

I could see Elma potentially being paired with KOS-MOS, since they're both technically part of the overall Xeno franchise. But that might be a stretch since KOS-MOS is technically a 3rd party character, so I'm wondering if a 3rd party reveal would have to share the spotlight with a 1st party character.

That's the only way I could see Elma being in a double reveal that makes sense. Unless we pair her up with someone from another franchise, like Isaac.

 

[Phoebe3315]

Okay... I think I've come to accept Elma won't be in the base game. Not that I 100% believe the leak, but it seems too many people who supposedly have insider information have come out now saying they've heard these characters are in...and to my knowledge, never has a credible leaker or insider mentioned Elma. One of the biggest reasons I thought Elma could be in was that rifle/mech Sakurai bought, but if Mach Rider is being added, that's most likely what it was used for. It sucks, but there probably won't be a Xenoblade X stage either if we're already potentially getting newcomers from 5 unrepresented franchises.

That being said, I would find it baffling if we didn't AT LEAST get some Xenoblade X music, and even that alone would give X much more publicity. Elma being the final blade in XC2 also boosted her popularity. Many people seem to be assuming DLC will start basically right after the game releases, but what if they wait a while and DLC is happening when the next Xenoblade game (which might be an X sequel starring Elma) is announced? An X port (if that happens, which hopefully it will) would increase her chances too. Maybe Sakurai played X and thought Elma could be a good character, but would want her true form to be an alt costume. In order to not spoil the game, he could've decided to wait until more people have gotten a chance to play it or a sequel is shown. (That last thought is unlikely but the point is Elma could be DLC, even if Rex & Pyra are added first. If the X series gets a sequel and only the regular XC series gets characters in Smash, it would seem very strange.)

 

[ColtonS25]

Let's be real though, Mach Rider was barely talked about until this leak. Sure it was always a possibility, but definitely not a large one.

And on the point about no leaks talking about Elma, that's true. However, Richter was never leaked. I know some people have lost hope, but I'm gonna stay optimistic as long as I can, dang it.

 

[Calamitas]

You know, I'm starting to consider making one of these fancy compilation images. You know, the ones that people have already made for other characters to list all the things that point towards their inclusion, like the one with Shantae I've seen recently. That'd make it easier to spread these things around, and who knows, maybe one of these YouTubers who make Smash speculation/leak videos picks it up for a video so that it can reach more people.