Elma for Smash Ultimate: Strength comes from experience. That’s true on any planet.

[Coofle DeDoofle]

I recently realized something... If that mech gun were for Elma, wouldn't Sakurai have bought TWO of them?

 

[Wisehunter]

I think the mech gun is much more similar to the gun that Skell model Verus (Elma favourite Skell) is holding on offical artworks than the guns Elma herself uses or the one mach rider uses.

 

[ColtonS25]

So, if you guys haven't heard, this is a thing. It's very convincing evidence of the leak being true. I'm gonna have to jump ship on team fake. There's just an overwhelming amount of evidence for it to be real.

So, it's no need to be sad. Elma will make a very nice DLC character. We should start campaigning now! I'd say we've got some stiff competition with characters like Ashley, Shantae, Sora, and even Waluigi, but I believe in Elma's ballot chances if we start now. No time like the present, right?

 

[Flyboy]

So, if you guys haven't heard, this is a thing. It's very convincing evidence of the leak being true. I'm gonna have to jump ship on team fake. There's just an overwhelming amount of evidence for it to be real.

So, it's no need to be sad. Elma will make a very nice DLC character. We should start campaigning now! I'd say we've got some stiff competition with characters like Ashley, Shantae, Sora, and even Waluigi, but I believe in Elma's ballot chances if we start now. No time like the present, right?

You can count on me to be aboard the Elma ballot train! She, Phoenix, and Travis Touchdown will be my campaigns. We can do it!

 

[Izayoi]

Well, the only real killing factor at this point would be getting our hands on the game and seeing a huge bunch of XBX tracks, Elma and the crew as trophies in the gallery, and a Skell Assist Trophy.

That's all I really can imagine. At this point there's just so much in favor of the Grinch leak that I-- Unfortunately, have to give in and believe it's real.


Although to be fair, if she's not making it in as an early DLC... it's likely that Rex will cut the line and leave her in the designer's bench until who knows when.

 

[ColtonS25]

I know they aren't technically guaranteed to do another ballot, but I can see Nintendo supporting Ultimate for many years. I mean, we're less than two year into the Switch's lifespan, and it's much more successful than the Wii U would ever be. I can see another ballot with multiple characters used this time. And by then, who knows? We might have X and X2 on the Switch, and Elma will be everyone's favorite Xeno protagonist! The support thread will be glorious.

 

[Izayoi]

I like your positive thinking. I hope you keep it up for us.

I guess I'm just in a bad mood because the leak is getting irritating and I just want a direct to seal the deal.

 

[Coofle DeDoofle]

I've pretty much said it before, but I'd be fine giving up on Elma being in the base game if it means this leak is real. It's too good on its own (not to mention really believable at this point) for me to be sad about missing a few characters, who may very well be DLC later anyway.

 

[DNeon]

Honestly, I hate to be the needlessly optimistic one, and I hate to be the one who throws things out there to raise people's hopes before they're dashed, plus I'm usually on the other side of this and telling people that they're being blinded by their fanboy-ism.

BUT

There's too much hinting at Elma being a possibility, and while I've been on team Real since it came out, it might still not be everyone, or atleast not everyone currently planned. The first few DLC characters will already be decided and being worked on by now, it's possible that she's already confirmed early DLC like Mewtwo was in Sm4sh.

 

[Fierymew]

Excellent job, both you and Nonno Umby ! I will be adding this to the OP.

I also just now realized I haven't added the link to the Discord channel for Elma. Is there a permanent link, Fierymew ?

Oh, I'm so sorry I didn't see this earlier.

I haven't been real active as of late, because of irl stuff, and I've just been a bit exhausted from all this Smash talk. I just want the game now

https://discord.gg/f9ppfUR

Here, this link should be permanent.

 

[Nonno Umby]

So, if you guys haven't heard, this is a thing. It's very convincing evidence of the leak being true. I'm gonna have to jump ship on team fake. There's just an overwhelming amount of evidence for it to be real.

So, it's no need to be sad. Elma will make a very nice DLC character. We should start campaigning now! I'd say we've got some stiff competition with characters like Ashley, Shantae, Sora, and even Waluigi, but I believe in Elma's ballot chances if we start now. No time like the present, right?

Yeah, evidence for those who so hardly want to belive and prove it instead of being objective and open minded (which isn't surprising since this leak basically confirms every big most wanted character on this site)

Also the internal numbering of the blog posts (remember? The 3 slipped updates that basically confirmed a character) proves that Isabelle was always meant to be the only character revealed in that Direct since that numbering was planned since before June.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

Yeah, evidence for those who so hardly want to belive and prove it instead of being objective and open minded (which isn't surprising since this leak basically confirms every big most wanted character on this site)

View attachment 173207

Also the internal numbering of the blog posts (remember? The 3 slipped updates that basically confirmed a character) proves that Isabelle was always meant tk be the only character revealed in that Direct since that numbering was planned since before June.

I'm pretty 50/50 on the odds of how real or fake Mr. Grinch is but boy did I learn the power of confirmation bias from this whole ****show, and how people will make really dumb reaches if they just want it hard enough. As much as I support Geno, Banjo, Isaac to an extent, and especially Mach Rider, I am gonna laugh so hard if come next Direct it turns out either Elma, Shantae, Incineroar or (Dun Dun Duuuuun) friggin Minecraft Steve gets in.

 

[Nonno Umby]

I'm pretty 50/50 on the odds of how real or fake Mr. Grinch is but boy did I learn the power of confirmation bias from this whole ****show, and how people will make really dumb reaches if they just want it hard enough. As much as I support Geno, Banjo, Isaac to an extent, and especially Mach Rider, I am gonna laugh so hard if come next Direct it turns out either Elma, Shantae, Incineroar or (Dun Dun Duuuuun) friggin Minecraft Steve gets in.

TBH I'm very neutral about it since I don't care for Isaac, Geno, Banjo, Shadow or Ken. The only ones that kinda interests me are the Chrous Kids and Mach Rider, but I would take this every day over the Box Theory.
But since I don't really care for it have not problem doing my own research about it and finding conterpoints to almost every single "proof" that gets brought up. While I don't care for it I don't want people to blindly belive it without at least keeping in mind that things don't add up, so that they will not be crushed after the final Direct. Because oh boy I don't want to be online if the leak is proven false and we don't have Genο, Isaac and/or Banjo...if the fanbase has some high level of toxicity now I can't imagine what it will became.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

TBH I'm very neutral about it since I don't care for Isaac, Geno, Banjo, Shadow or Ken. The only ones that kinda interests me are the Chrous Kids and Mach Rider, but I would take this every day over the Box Theory.
But since I don't really care for it have not problem doing my own research about it and finding conterpoints to almost every single "proof" that gets brought up. While I don't care for it I don't want people to blindly belive it without at least keeping in mind that things don't add up, so that they will not be crushed after the final Direct. Because oh boy I don't want to be online if the leak is proven false and we don't have Genο, Isaac and/or Banjo...if the fanbase has some high level of toxicity now I can't imagine what it will became.

Oh boy that would be something to see. So many people on the Geno/Isaac/Banjo threads are just circlejerking each other and breaking out the champagne bottles as if it's already a done deal. I'd feel sad that they're hopes were raised to such an impossibly high level after waiting for over a decade, but guiltily I must admit I'd get a nice sense of schadenfreude as well from watching so many cocky ******** eat some humble pie (and I friggin support those characters even!).

By far the most annoying thing about this leak is how everybody simply takes the new company this Eric fellow works for, ACP, as Bandai/Nintendo affiliated as a fact despite zero supporting evidence for this! The only "proof" is that the company did some work for Assassins Creed but that doesn't say anything! That's friggin Ubisoft! If I work for Disney World, that doesn't mean I have any info on what Universal Studios is doing just because they're both theme parks, but that's the exact logic these people have latched on to!

Until I see some hard evidence that that ACP is very definitely working on Smash in some capacity I'm not going to be convinced of this leak. If I'm wrong and ACP is actually Nintendo affiliated then I'll take the L. But so far the logic just isn't adding up quite enough for me to declare this a slamdunk.

The Grinch is better than Box Theory though at least, I'll give it that much. I think seven characters is way too high of number to hold onto this long, but two definitely felt way too limited.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Oh boy that would be something to see. So many people on the Geno/Isaac/Banjo threads are just circlejerking each other and breaking out the champagne bottles as if it's already a done deal. I'd feel sad that they're hopes were raised to such an impossibly high level after waiting for over a decade, but guiltily I must admit I'd get a nice sense of schadenfreude as well from watching so many cocky ******** eat some humble pie (and I friggin support those characters even!).

By far the most annoying thing about this leak is how everybody simply takes the new company this Eric fellow works for, ACP, as Bandai/Nintendo affiliated as a fact despite zero supporting evidence for this! The only "proof" is that the company did some work for Assassins Creed but that doesn't say anything! That's friggin Ubisoft! If I work for Disney World, that doesn't mean I have any info on what Universal Studios is doing just because they're both theme parks, but that's the exact logic these people have latched on to!

Until I see some hard evidence that that ACP is very definitely working on Smash in some capacity I'm not going to be convinced of this leak. If I'm wrong and ACP is actually Nintendo affiliated then I'll take the L. But so far the logic just isn't adding up quite enough for me to declare this a slamdunk.

The Grinch is better than Box Theory though at least, I'll give it that much. I think seven characters is way too high of number to hold onto this long, but two definitely felt way too limited.

Exactly! Also this Eric is apparently a 50+ year old man, so he is in a demography I can't really say would risk loosing his job (at an age near retirement, which means it would be very hard to find a new one) by posting leaks on Snapchat with giants LOL, smiles and "f**k Nintendo mrmrmr".

This leak is surely one of the most interesting we have ever seen. I just hopes it doesn't backfire to much (even tho some people should really eat some humble pie as you said). Meanwhile I'm just here waiting for Elma to show up and bring me out of this planet to Mira Smash Ultimate.

 

[DNeon]

I just want to say that sure, there's a whole lot of confirmation bias on the Real side, but I'm not going to pretend that I don't see some for the Fake side either, when fans want it to be deconfirmed so their characters are still on the table.

 

[Nonno Umby]

I just want to say that sure, there's a whole lot of confirmation bias on the Real side, but I'm not going to pretend that I don't see some for the Fake side either, when fans want it to be deconfirmed so their characters are still on the table.

The thing is a leak is either real or fake. There isn't a third option. And after seeing a good counterpoint to almost every single "point" towards it being real, but not some for the points against it being fake (like nobody gave a reason to why there are changes to the background that can't be explained just with poor camera quality and compression conveniently where characters used to be) make me lean to Team Fake, especially since most people who are confirmed to have internal knowledge like Vergeben, GamexPlain and so on are also Team Fake. And as I said I try to at least make people realize that this leak is far from being bullet proof in order to avoid a sh*tshow like when the ESRB was confirmed real, except that this time it would really tear apart some members of this fanbase who became even more toxic than back then.
As for myself even if Elma was in this leak I would still keep looking for evidence about this leak being fake, because I wouldn't belive a leak that I want to happen unless I am 100% sure of it. Because that is what being objective means.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

The thing is a leak is either real or fake. There isn't a third option.

The third option (that I'm personally betting on) is that we have another Palutena leak situation, where some of the characters are legitimately in the game but the leak itself is just a very well crafted fake.

And after seeing a good counterpoint to almost every single "point" towards it being real, but not some for the points against it being fake (like nobody gave a reason to why there are changes to the background that can't be explained just with poor camera quality and compression conveniently where characters used to be) make me lean to Team Fake, especially since most people who are confirmed to have internal knowledge like Vergeben, GamexPlain and so on are also Team Fake. And as I said I try to at least make people realize that this leak is far from being bullet proof in order to avoid a sh*tshow like when the ESRB was confirmed real, except that this time it would really tear apart some members of this fanbase who became even more toxic than back then.

Seriously, I hate how everyone decided to simply dismiss all of Artsy Omni's analysis with bogus crap like "The background has been changed a bunch!" (it hasn't) and "Companies make arbitrary changes all the time!" (if there's reason to do so, otherwise they'll take the lazy and cheap way and not do it), or "Snapchat is why it's so poor quality! (Snapchat doesn't remove major macro details in such a way, especially in such overly convenient areas as you said)

It's something I've noticed a lot with this leak. A lot of people claiming that it stood up and blew away all the arguments against it, but from my perspective it seems like if it's an argument that can't be dismissed out of hand, everyone simply ignores it and pretend it's merely minor nitpicking.

As for myself even if Elma was in this leak I would still keep looking for evidence about this leak being fake, because I wouldn't believe a leak that I want to happen unless I am 100% sure of it. Because that is what being objective means.

Me too. I want Mach Rider. I really want Mach Rider. The saddest thing for me if this leak gets debunked isn't the loss of any of the popular guys, it's the loss of my most wanted Retro rep period. He/She is the biggest reason I'm so 50/50 on the Grinch just because of how much I would love to have him/her in the game. Doesn't mean I'm gonna just ignore the weird crap surrounding this leak.

I just want to say that sure, there's a whole lot of confirmation bias on the Real side, but I'm not going to pretend that I don't see some for the Fake side either, when fans want it to be deconfirmed so their characters are still on the table.

Oh yeah for sure. I'm certainly not free of bias and I'm the first one to admit that, I'm just skeptical of Nintendo deciding to do nothing for October if they actually have seven characters in the wings.

 

[Calamitas]

I myself would still very much prefer it if the leak is fake. Out of the new characters on there, the only one I actually care about is Isaac, and maybe, maybe Shadow. The other ones I'm either indifferent about, or could see becoming scape goats for my anger when this is really all that's left. Yeah, that's petty, sure, but. . . well, I'm not gonna go around claiming that I'm a 100% rational person. As for actually believing the leak, there's still a few too many points sticking out to me to really believe it. Considering how blurry the entire thing is, and how small the object that the banner was printed on, you wouldn't have even had to be an art genius to make the new artworks the slightest bit believable, and so on, and so forth. Bandai Namco apparently also has a habit of sending out leak bait (literally having just done so for Soul Calibur VI), so that's also an option.
Plus, a big part of this leak seems to be banking on every one of these newcomers getting a stage as well to fill up the 108 stages number. But, really, after K. Rool and Isabelle didn't get any new stages to go with them, does Geno, Chorus Kids and Mach Rider getting a stage really seem that likely?
In regards to Elma. . . well, everyone in this thread should be familiar with all the things pointing towards her, so I'm not gonna regurgitate them. I'm just gonna say, would it really make sense for them to hold anything new for Xenoblade back for just an Assist Trophy? Especially when the only other new Assist Trophy that had any actual potential to be a playable fighter was Krystal, and all other new ones wouldn't really have worked as fighters?

 

[Luviant X]

With all the reaching, toxicity, and desperation in the past five days over the Grinch Leak, I've lost faith in humanity.

But I haven't lost faith in Elma.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Honestly my gut is telling me the leak is fake, there's a lot of evidence for it and a lot against it too so it's really just a waiting game at this point. But not adding Elma now after how Xenoblade 2 went down and not representing Xenoblade X at all would be extremely weird.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

A lot of insiders I’ve found are saying only bits and pieces of the banner leak are real, not all of it. The majority seem to believe that Banjo and Mach Rider are for the most part not in. They all seem to be the most sure of Isaac and Ken being in at least, though.

 

[Izayoi]

Ugh. You guys made me think twice, lol.
Darn this leak. A direct is long overdue...

 

[SebasSancy]

Honestly my gut is telling me the leak is fake, there's a lot of evidence for it and a lot against it too so it's really just a waiting game at this point. But not adding Elma now after how Xenoblade 2 went down and not representing Xenoblade X at all would be extremely weird.

I also find it weird that Xenoblade has no representation on the base roster. The IP is huge, and every new game is super well recieve by the critics and fans! Maybe they are holding Elma and Rex/Pyra for a DLC pack, but I find it really weird

 

[Calamitas]

You know, I'm beginning to feel that it's appropriate to bring up this image.

Spoiler: X Endgame Spoiler, you probably know which one

Or, the cropped version with only the relevant line.

. . .I really should've taken a pic of this sooner.

 

[aarchak]

What is even going on? Someone needs to pile a list of all the evidence for or against the Grinch leak, I can't keep up with this anymore.

You know, I'm beginning to feel that it's appropriate to bring up this image.

Spoiler: X Endgame Spoiler, you probably know which one

View attachment 173244

Or, the cropped version with only the relevant line.

View attachment 173245

. . .I really should've taken a pic of this sooner.

Dang, I thought Lin was Lao with that armor.

 

[ColtonS25]

Hey, at least the "convincing evidence" I brought up is apparently fake now. There's so much back and forth, it's ridiculous.

Could you actually imagine if Incineroar of all characters was the one who disproved the leak? Before this, he was hated plenty. But if Incineroar and Ken were the only ones left, Smashboards would become a Salt Mine.

 

[Calamitas]

Here's another image that's worth having around now, I feel.

Spoiler: From the X ending

Dang, I thought Lin was Lao with that armor.

The true plot twist of X: Lin is trans and grows up to look just like Lao.

 

[Pacack]

All I'm saying is that I'm on team "we can't know whether it's real or not" since I lived through Gematsu. ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

All I'm saying is that I'm on team "we can't know whether it's real or not" since I lived through Gematsu. ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯

I'm on team "neutral on all leaks until proven real because the Rayman 'leak' gave me trust issues"

 

[The_Intruder]

I myself would still very much prefer it if the leak is fake. Out of the new characters on there, the only one I actually care about is Isaac, and maybe, maybe Shadow. The other ones I'm either indifferent about, or could see becoming scape goats for my anger when this is really all that's left. Yeah, that's petty, sure, but. . . well, I'm not gonna go around claiming that I'm a 100% rational person. As for actually believing the leak, there's still a few too many points sticking out to me to really believe it. Considering how blurry the entire thing is, and how small the object that the banner was printed on, you wouldn't have even had to be an art genius to make the new artworks the slightest bit believable, and so on, and so forth. Bandai Namco apparently also has a habit of sending out leak bait (literally having just done so for Soul Calibur VI), so that's also an option.
Plus, a big part of this leak seems to be banking on every one of these newcomers getting a stage as well to fill up the 108 stages number. But, really, after K. Rool and Isabelle didn't get any new stages to go with them, does Geno, Chorus Kids and Mach Rider getting a stage really seem that likely?
In regards to Elma. . . well, everyone in this thread should be familiar with all the things pointing towards her, so I'm not gonna regurgitate them. I'm just gonna say, would it really make sense for them to hold anything new for Xenoblade back for just an Assist Trophy? Especially when the only other new Assist Trophy that had any actual potential to be a playable fighter was Krystal, and all other new ones wouldn't really have worked as fighters?

Agreed the more I think the more it doesn't make sens especially for one thing : Fiora in the Final smash.
If there is nothing more aside that it's honestly a real d*** move because it's a huge spoiler so what is the choice behind that aside to disappoint people that haven't or just started the game seeing this spoiler.
Another thing it's no more a reference of Xenoblade in the final smash because now there is 4 characters , so with all of that if there is nothing new in content it looks like just messing with the franchise and nothing more.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Agreed the more I think the more it doesn't make sens especially for one thing : Fiora in the Final smash.
If there is nothing more aside that it's honestly a real d*** move because it's a huge spoiler so what is the choice behind that aside to disappoint people that haven't or just started the game seeing this spoiler.
Another thing it's no more a reference of Xenoblade in the final smash because now there is 4 characters , so with all of that if there is nothing new in content it looks like just messing with the franchise and nothing more.

In hindsight, it’s more of a reference to X which has 4 party members

 

[Teeb147]

A lot of insiders I’ve found are saying only bits and pieces of the banner leak are real, not all of it. The majority seem to believe that Banjo and Mach Rider are for the most part not in. They all seem to be the most sure of Isaac and Ken being in at least, though.

I think that's a good consideration. And really we dont know, so it's best to stay open.

I think it'd be great for a character like Elma to be in too, so I'm really hoping there's more surprises waiting
November should tell a lot.

 

[ColtonS25]

In hindsight, it’s more of a reference to X which has 4 party members

Or it's just like how Paula and Poo are in Ness's Final Smash using PK Starstorm. Only Poo can actually learn it in Earthbound, so Sakurai doesn't really care too much about accuracy for what it's worth.

 

[Nightguything]

It’d be a crime to not include black tar in Ultimates ost. Seriously, I still see Elma getting in, even with Rex as a contender

 

[Nonno Umby]

A lot of insiders I’ve found are saying only bits and pieces of the banner leak are real, not all of it. The majority seem to believe that Banjo and Mach Rider are for the most part not in. They all seem to be the most sure of Isaac and Ken being in at least, though.

Which doesn't really mean anything. Even if the Grinch leak is fake it doesn't stop any of those characters from actually being in Smash. Heck KKR, Dark Samus, Chrom and Simon were in a gazilion fake leaks before being confirmed, and let's not forget about the fake Palutena 3DS leak. This whole leak might be fake even if all of those characters are actually in if the positions and artworks don't match up lol.

 

[aarchak]

https://twitter.com/MrNantendo/status/1055206265964716042

Hello, I found this in the Grinch leak thread, and it really sums up well the points against the leak.

 

[Teeb147]

Yeah, evidence for those who so hardly want to belive and prove it instead of being objective and open minded (which isn't surprising since this leak basically confirms every big most wanted character on this site)

View attachment 173207

Also the internal numbering of the blog posts (remember? The 3 slipped updates that basically confirmed a character) proves that Isabelle was always meant to be the only character revealed in that Direct since that numbering was planned since before June.

Did anyone post that in the isaac thread? just wondering.

 

[The_Intruder]

Remember guys this is not the first time a game tease something for smash bros

For bayonetta switch that was released in february

(Rodin was announced as an assist during e3)
So what the nopon has said in the DLC for Xenoblade 2 could be really a tease for the announce of elma as a new comer in Ultimate.

 

[Calamitas]

Remember guys this is not the first time a game tease something for smash bros

For bayonetta switch that was released in february

(Rodin was announced as an assist during e3)
So what the nopon has said in the DLC for Xenoblade 2 could be really a tease for the announce of elma as a new comer in Ultimate.

To play the Devil's Advocate for a moment, Rodin did only end up becoming an Assist Trophy. That's something that I've seen other people bring up in regards to this argument in the past.
However, Bayonetta is a third-party franchise, and this part about Rodin is only one minor line, whereas Elma in XBC2 was quite in-your-face, down to her getting a reveal trailer.

. . .Speaking of Bayonetta, though, I could see Elma being a quite prominent part of her Classic Mode. I mean, her colour scheme is a perfect match for Jeanne, making her the perfect stand-in for one of these themed matches.