Elements and Attributes Mafia - Game Over!

[Aggressive Mediation]

More likely scum JTB and Nabe?

Seriously? Gheb stonewalled both scum lynches in a row! With no good reason. He deflected from PJB to Sword/JTB and from FF to Sword/JTB. Whenever there was a question of "best inactive lynch", he made sure it wasn't FF. He tried to get you to switch from FF to JTB for no reason except that he was convinced JTB had some sort of PJB connection that he never pointed out. He gave thread control to only one slot which was the same slot that was trying to stop a PJB lynch and went on to die that Night. Everything about Gheb radiated the grossest of scummy fumes and the FF scumflip made it even worse. Gheb was by and large the scummiest player going into both Nights that made me say "**** shooting an inactive." Yes, Gheb was that scummy to me.

That's an exaggeration. He did that long before it became apparent that Swiss wanted anything but a PJB lynch.

 

[Kantrip]

Gheb was the optimal target for me because he was a strong scum read. Strong scum read > pool of nulls

Unprovable is also not true. 50% provable. Save the wild theories for one Night while we lynch between JTB and Nabe and see if it still holds up.

 

[Kantrip]

That's an exaggeration. He did that long before it became apparent that Swiss wanted anything but a PJB lynch.

Okay, fair enough. The fact that he gave thread control to the slot that died still holds up. His stance-swap was so disingenuous and all signs point to his scumminess. I can't see anything but a game where we lynch Nabe, JTB, and Gheb and win.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

And every time there are neighbours in DGames, one is town and one is scum. It's like a rule. MODs never just make Neghbours both town.

Pizza mafia. AM and Nabe.

 

[Kantrip]

Pizza mafia. AM and Nabe.

Really? Props to the mod, in that case.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Gheb was the optimal target for me because he was a strong scum read. Strong scum read > pool of nulls

Unprovable is also not true. 50% provable. Save the wild theories for one Night while we lynch between JTB and Nabe and see if it still holds up.

Unprovable as of this moment and never provable that it's not 100%.

Unvote I just had an influx of new information. Let me catch up for the moment.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Okay, fair enough. The fact that he gave thread control to the slot that died still holds up. His stance-swap was so disingenuous and all signs point to his scumminess. I can't see anything but a game where we lynch Nabe, JTB, and Gheb and win.

See, that attitude is what scares me so ****ing badly. You're totally wrong on the number one rule of DGames mafia.

The rule is that there is always an indy. Again, I highly doubt the third mafia is Gheb, but I could agree that the third mafia is in Nabe/JTB. Explain to me, then, the motivation for independent lovers Gheb and Foxy to leave the game tonight as opposed to saving it for a later situation where Foxy was actually at risk of a night kill?

 

[Kantrip]

If it's 100% why would I lie about it?

Because I'm SK instead of Abductor? Auto-jan SK, at that? Well if my kill goes through and you see the flip actually occur, you'll know that's not the case, as well. So yes, my role is still provable.

 

[Kantrip]

See, that attitude is what scares me so ****ing badly. You're totally wrong on the number one rule of DGames mafia.

The rule is that there is always an indy. Again, I highly doubt the third mafia is Gheb, but I could agree that the third mafia is in Nabe/JTB. Explain to me, then, the motivation for independent lovers Gheb and Foxy to leave the game tonight as opposed to saving it for a later situation where Foxy was actually at risk of a night kill?

But I do think there's an indy. It's between Nabe and JTB! Nabe and JTB are super unlikely mafia, as I've been saying. I don't think Gheb and Foxy are indy lovers because Foxy is town.

 

[Gova]

1. Nabe ()
2. BadWolf28738 ()
3. Aggressive Mediation ()
4. Dark Horse ()
6. JTB ()
8. Potassium (),
9. Sworddancer. ()
10. Red Ruy ()

Not voting: Nabe, BW, DH, JTB, K, Sword, RR, AM

With 8 playing it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Monday, June 24th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6).

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

What do you want me to address in this current discusion? I've talked about why me as an abductor doesn't clear things up and a solution as a compromise (which is basically wait a phase and see if your theory still holds up).

How can you think JTB or Nabe are the last mafia? Look at how they responded to the wagons of their mates. Just look at it and stop this bull****. Your conspiracy theories are going overboard. Nabe/JTB are not mafia with how they hopped on their mates wagons, at all. If there's a discrepancy within them, one of them is indy. I'm sorry if that means I'm deflecting or sidetracking, but that's what I care about right now. I don't care about bickering about you with your conspiracy theories.

Bicker with me anyway. Not bickering with me leads to you getting lynched. Ask Swiss or KevinM about that ****.

I want you to address my statements and show where you disagree with my logic on where Gheb is not mafia because he would not make the decision to leave the game or agree that he is probably not mafia. Then I want you to find the mafia night kill assuming it isn't Gheb (regardless of if you agree that it isn't, tell me if you can find an alternative).




I do not remember how Nabe treated the two wagons, but I am in the process of reading with Alex. I'll find it. JTB, I only remember Day 1 where he jumped on a pressure wagon late in the wagon and was inactive the rest of the day. I do not believe he removed his vote at any point.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

If it's 100% why would I lie about it?

Because I'm SK instead of Abductor? Auto-jan SK, at that? Well if my kill goes through and you see the flip actually occur, you'll know that's not the case, as well. So yes, my role is still provable.

I've actually seen this claim before from a killer. I think it was Zen. I think that even farther back, I used it. It doesn't force you into claiming limited shots, but leaves you the ability to claim Vig as an independent (letting you freely be traced to sketchy targets). You can even used failed shots to point to how your claim is legit and you've probably already got one from N1.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Okay, let's stop for a second. I need to see if it's all rendered moot.

 

[Kantrip]

I think your statement on Gheb is flawed because you say he had to get a kill off to mess up the mass claim. However, he knew you were getting protected, and with you alive there was no getting thread control to mess with the mass-claim in any way. The only way he survives the Day (in his eyes, I'm sure he felt threatened by your thread control and us leading 2 scum lynches in a row that he stonewalled) is by not being up for lynch. I think his priority is surviving over messing with the mass claim. I don't know the specifics of the ability, but I just doubt it was an abduction and think it was initiated by Gheb/Foxy.

Pretend you're wrong about there being an abductor, and Gheb and Foxy come back to the game at one point. What does this do to your theory? What does this do to your read on them? Pretend the indy (I guess we're assuming there is one) didn't have anything to do with the disappearance. Same questions.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

My influx of information was confirmation on my role from Gova. It is not mentioned in my role PM that I lose the shots I don't use. However, I had thought so previously. I assume I got that information from Gova at some point after Night 1. I asked him to verify now and I do indeed lose the shots I don't use and I can indeed gain back abilities that I had previously gained.

Now, in addition to that, I found out that I misunderstood the ability I gained from the Wind Element. I thought it boosted one player to the top of NAR. It only boosts a player ONE POSITION IN NAR.

I also verified that no mod errors have been made, so I definitely received no new abilities.

There may still be something between Sworddancer's claim and my result.

So, I'm examining things.

Can someone fetch me a list of claimed N2 actions.

 

[Kantrip]

[COLLAPSE=Claims]1. Nabe replaces Handorin - Magnetism, Target can only target people of their own alignment
2. BadWolf28738 - Earth Element, target is immune to all Night actions
3. Aggressive Mediation (Ryker/WashedLaundry) - Support Attribute, gains a weaker one-shot version of any ability used on them
4. Dark Horse - Wind Element, Makes actions go first in NAR
5. Gheb_01 - ????, Neighbour with Foxy
6. JTB - Thunder, Target can only target themselves
8. Potassium - Plant Attribute, 50% vig
9. Sworddancer. - Water Element, Slows down projectiles used on his target for one Night
10. Red Ruy - Darkness Element, Tracker/Reporter
12. Foxy the Silver Fox (Anomandaris_Rake/Ranmaru) - ????, Neighbour with Gheb

Nabe
Night 1: Tried to target Gheb but was paralyzed
Night 2: Targeted Dark Horse

Badwolf
Night 1: Targeted AM
Night 2: Targeted no one

AM
Night 1: Recieved a Rock, Water, and Wind ability.
Night 2: Received nothing, used Wind ability on Sword (

Dark Horse
Night 1: Targeted AM
Night 2: Targeted Sword

Gheb
Disappeared at the start of Night 2

JTB
Night 1: Targeted Nabe
Night 2: Targeted Badwolf

Potassium
Night 1: Targeted Gheb
Night 2: Targeted Gheb

Sword
Night 1: Targeted AM
Night 2: Targeted AM

Red Ruy
Night 1: Targeted Foxy, Tracked them going nowhere
Night 2: Targeted Gheb, did not get any result back

Foxy
Disappeared at the start of Night 2[/COLLAPSE]
Here you are, N2 is in here.

 

[Kantrip]

Now, in addition to that, I found out that I misunderstood the ability I gained from the Wind Element. I thought it boosted one player to the top of NAR. It only boosts a player ONE POSITION IN NAR.

I asked you this EXACT question for a reason, buddy! I know what you're on to and am very curious what you come up with.

 

[Kantrip]

(Dark Horse and Sword can't be the same alignment, can they?)

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Pretend you're wrong about there being an abductor, and Gheb and Foxy come back to the game at one point. What does this do to your theory? What does this do to your read on them? Pretend the indy (I guess we're assuming there is one) didn't have anything to do with the disappearance. Same questions.

Murders my theory. Means the remaining mafia is likely Dark Horse or Nabe with the outside shot at that Gheb seeing as no night kill took place or that mafia shot at Foxy. Means the indy is likely Gheb/Foxy as lovers. I think the Foxy shot becomes my leading idea of where the night kill went despite me thinking whole-heartedly that it loses the game for a mafiat that is within the lynchable pool going into N2 (Nabe, JTB, DH, Badwolf, Gheb).

Same answers to the second question.




The reason to wait a phase is to see if they come back. The reason not to wait is to make sure that no more go missing and to ensure that I'm here to find this abductor. Which course of action to take is determined by the likelihood that Gheb would voluntarily remove himself from the game as any alignment. A decision I still find highly unlikely in the extreme.

As soon as I'm able to stay caught up, I'm going to dissect the Sworddancer ability situation.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

(Dark Horse and Sword can't be the same alignment, can they?)

I'm not sure. It depends on NAR and the magnetism/paralysis that I was intentionally avoiding until I had read the game seeing as I thought I had figured out the issue with Sworddancer. Looking now seeing as I'm finally caught up.

 

[Kantrip]

This post will probably help with that.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Do we have a verdict on whether JTB's paralysis redirects or causes an ability to fizzle?

Do we have confirmation that Magnetism takes effect the night of (causing abilities targeting other alignments to fizzle) or the night after (leaving abilities alone for the first night)?

Did we receive an announcement that a player was magnetized at the start of day three?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

In fact, link me to the start of Days 2 and 3.

 

[Kantrip]

Do we have a verdict on whether JTB's paralysis redirects or causes an ability to fizzle?

Do we have confirmation that Magnetism takes effect the night of (causing abilities targeting other alignments to fizzle) or the night after (leaving abilities alone for the first night)?

Did we receive an announcement that a player was magnetized at the start of day three?

N1 "someone was magnetized." Inclined to believe it redirects to the user.

Nabe implied it takes effect the Night of, and causes actions that target other alignments to fizzle.

No we did not, that is when we got our "Badwolf's alignment has been revealed! He is town!" announcement.

 

[Kantrip]

Oh, the things I do for people.

Day 2 Start
Day 3 Start

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Okay, I ****ed up and lost it, but I'm recreating it. I have confirmation from Gova that this game uses NAR (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Natural_Action_Resolution). I'm currently creating a mock night action resolution based on the roles present. Double check me when I finish.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I am going to disappear for a bit while I solve this.

 

[Kantrip]

Sure thing.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

NAR means that every night action goes off unless it is blocked by something that happened previously in the night phase (or outside or whatever. I assume I don't have to explain roleblocks to you guys). Just because Ruy is late in NAR doesn't mean that he can't see something that occurred earlier.

NOTE: THIS RECREATION ASSUMES THAT BOTH NABE AND JTB AFFECT THE NIGHT THEY ARE USED!

1/2.) Nabe - Magnetism, Target can only target people of their own alignment
1/2.) JTB - Thunder, Target can only target themselves
3.) BadWolf28738 - Earth Element, target is immune to all night kills. Toggles on/off.
3/4.) Sworddancer. - Water Element, Slows down kills used on his target for one Night
4.) Dark Horse - Wind Element, Makes actions go first in NAR
4.) AM - Supported Wind Element, Makes actions go one speed faster in NAR.
5.) Mafia Night Kill
5.5.) Potassium - Plant Attribute, 50% vig *
6.) Red Ruy - Darkness Element, Tracker/Reporter
7.) Aggressive Mediation (Ryker/WashedLaundry) - Support Attribute, gains a weaker one-shot version of any ability that targets them and resolves successfully (blocked by doc or roleblocker or whatever means a failure to resolve).

* Speed 5.5 means that for the purpose of night action resolution, the two night kills occur at the same time. However, assuming Kantrip is town, it is worth noting that the mafia night kill generally wins in a 1v1 situation. Kill trades and shoot-outs are the territory of the moderator and, possessing neither ability, I can't get clarification on how shoot-outs work from Gova.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Double check me and point out to me anywhere that I may have ****ed up a role's description or its NAR.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Now I have to actually apply it. Give me another moment.

 

[Kantrip]

It just occurred to me that Gheb and Foxy leaving may be a defensive passive that makes them leave the game for a phase when one of them would die or something. Could be that my kill on Gheb went through and he booked it out of there.

I'm not seeing anything wrong with that NAR.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

NAR:

1/2.) Nabe - Magnetism, Target can only target people of their own alignment
1/2.) JTB - Thunder, Target can only target themselves
3.) BadWolf28738 - Earth Element, target is immune to all night kills. Toggles on/off.
3/4.) Sworddancer. - Water Element, Slows down kills used on his target for one Night
4.) Dark Horse - Wind Element, Makes actions go first in NAR
4.) AM - Supported Wind Element, Makes actions go one speed faster in NAR.
5.) Mafia Night Kill
5.5.) Potassium - Plant Attribute, 50% vig *
6.) Red Ruy - Darkness Element, Tracker/Reporter
7.) Aggressive Mediation (Ryker/WashedLaundry) - Support Attribute, gains a weaker one-shot version of any ability that targets them and resolves successfully (blocked by doc or roleblocker or whatever means a failure to resolve).

Night One Resolution As We Can Assume:

1.) Aggressive Mediation (Ryker/WashedLaundry) - Gains Rock, Wind, and Water support abilities.
2/3.) JTB - Paralyzes Nabe
2/3.) Nabe - EITHER magnetizes self OR magnetizes Gheb *
4.) Badwolf28738 - Toggles protect on AM.
4/5.) Sworddancer - Slows kills on AM.
5.) Dark Horse - Causes AM to go first in NAR.
6.) Mafia - Kills S&C
6.5) Potassium - Targets Gheb and fails to kill.
7.) Red Ruy - Confirms Foxy went nowhere.
* - I believe that JTB going first in NAR makes more sense with what we know, so he is listed first on the chart. This bullet lists both possibilities because we do not know for sure and there is a sizable chance we could be wrong.

Outside of these nine actions, Gheb and Foxy created their neighborhood, Swiss did something, and FF did something.

Night Two Resolution As We Can Assume:

In the Case of Nabe Town and Dark Horse Scum:

1/2.) JTB - Paralyzes Badwolf.
1/2.) Nabe - Magnetizes Dark Horse.
2/3.) Sworddancer - Delays kills targeting AM. *
3.) Badwolf28738 - EITHER toggles off protection of AM OR fails to toggle off protection due to paralysis. **
4.) Dark Horse - Fails to target town Sworddancer because of Magnetism.
4.) Aggressive Mediation - Boosts Sworddancer's speed in NAR by one.
5.) Mafia - Night kill is missing in action. ***
5.5) Potassium - Targets Gheb and fails to kill. ****
6.) Red Ruy - Targets Gheb and fails to get an investigation result.
7.) Aggressive Mediation - Does not receive any support elements.
* - This is the first time that our speed ties may matter. If Sworddancer's ability is classified as a protect, then it is boosted to even footing with any potential roleblockers. If it is classified as a miscellaneous ability such as I assume our NAR boosters are, then it would not be that fast and would instead be on even footing with Badwolf's protect.

** - I need confirmation from Badwolf. He needs to ask Gova if his toggling off is a targeted ability.
*** - Mafia night kill may not have occurred. I felt it important to leave showing its position in NAR so we know what could reasonably have caused a night kill to be interrupted.
**** - This is assuming that his kill did not actually resolve and result in the twin disappearances.


Outside of these actions Gheb and Foxy have disappeared for some unknown reason.

In the Case of Magnetize Not Stopping Dark Horse:

0.) Sworddancer - Delays kills targeting AM. *
2/3.) JTB - Paralyzes Badwolf.
2/3.) Nabe - Magnetizes Dark Horse.
4.) Badwolf28738 - EITHER toggles off protection of AM OR fails to toggle off protection due to paralysis. **
5.) Dark Horse - Causes Sworddancer to go first in NAR.
5.) Aggressive Mediation - Boosts Sworddancer's speed in NAR by one.
6.) Mafia - Night kill is missing in action. ***
6.5) Potassium - Targets Gheb and fails to kill. ****
7.) Red Ruy - Targets Gheb and fails to get an investigation result.
8.) Aggressive Mediation - Does not receive any support elements.
* - The speed here is noted as "0" instead of "1" which would typically denote the first action in NAR because it was boosted to the top of NAR and then boosted further, giving it some super priority. This is also why there is no "1" position listed. There is an entire speed rating in between Sworddancer and the rest of the NAR we know of.

** - I still need confirmation from Badwolf. Same note as last time.
*** - Again, we don't know what happened and the position should remain marked.
**** - This is assuming that his kill did not actually resolve and result in the twin disappearances.


Outside of these actions Gheb and Foxy have disappeared for some unknown reason.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

It just occurred to me that Gheb and Foxy leaving may be a defensive passive that makes them leave the game for a phase when one of them would die or something. Could be that my kill on Gheb went through and he booked it out of there.

I'm not seeing anything wrong with that NAR.

I actually noted that as a possibility in the NAR analysis I just posted. It could be that or it could be a reaction to the MIA mafia night kill. However, I find it a stretch.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

HOMEWORK TIME:

This is all information that I need back in a timely manner. I do not want to run to deadline trying to analyze based on assumptions when I could have hard facts on these claims with a guaranteed paper trail. I am legit serious. You don't get back to me, I will come banging on your door with a lynch mob, except I'll do it IRL.

BADWOLF: First, double check for me. Did you receive a confirmation that you had been paralyzed on night 2? Second, and most importantly, ask the mod if your ability targets when you first use it. After that, ask him if it targets when you want to toggle it off. Give me a CLEAR answer. You are horrendous about making mistakes with your interpretation of things. Ask him plainly and don't make a mistake in bringing the information back to us. If you are at all confused, ask for clarification about this request from me or about your answer from the mod. I need this information to be crystalline.

JTB: Tell me if your ability takes place the same night you used it or if it takes effect the next night. If it takes effect the night you use it, then tell me if it redirects the target to themselves or roleblocks them. If you don't know, ask the mod.

Nabe: Tell me if your ability takes place the same night you used it or the following night. Verify for me when you were paralyzed and when you received the notification that you were. Now, I know you have a head for set-ups. Double check my NAR and tell me if I have ****ed up. Next time a game opens that we both want to play in, we should hydra because I love you.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

So it's not missed:

BADWOLF, JTB, AND NABE

Read my previous post and comply or face termination. The choice is your's.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Kantrip, if you're still here, can you find FrozenFlame's claim for me and link it. After you do that can you find out what JTB has already said about when his role takes effect and what Nabe has said about his alert. I want it from their mouths so that it's perfectly clear, but I would like to move ahead as far as I can.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

And then I wasn't sleeping this night. Good thing I have work tomorrow and not today.

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah I'll grab that stuff for you.

 

[Kantrip]

Frozenflame never posted in thread between when we told him to claim and when he was lynched. We never got a claim from him.

I should've said I wanted to claim after Nabe, but its too late for that

I'm thunder, I target someone at night and they will be paralyzed and can only target themselves the rest of the game

I hit hando n1 and badwolf n2

I'm magnetism. Ability makes the player I target only be able to target someone of their own alignment. There's some indication that the ability might work the other way around instead of what's written, but I don't think Gova's that tricky.

N1 Gheb but was informed of paralysis, N2 DH. So Swords and DH should be the same alignment.

I misread my role, I thought the paralysis lasted the whole game but when Nabe claimed he targeted DH last Night, I asked Gova and he said its only one night.