Edge guarding

[DunSkies]

this is my first post so hey smash world

Can some one tell me the best way to edge guard with falcon.

Hears my problems
Ill often pull of some slick falcon sexiness to a knee. Thell be coming back so ill try to back air them or something. Ether ill hit them and all is good or ill miss and get gimped . Its goes about 40/60. so I started to try to go for up tilts cuz it feels safer, But no mater what if I hit them or not I get hit my self. If I miss it, with out fail they will combo me off it.

For exp (fox upB into uair)(falcos upB into bair)

Is there a better way?

tell me ur own personal syle.

 

[Daedatheus]

When edgeguarding it's important to do 2 main things.

1.) Pressure them into certain disadvantageous recovery positions, and

2.) Wait for their reaction and recovery path to become clear, then intercept

A good player will mindgame you in their recovery so sometimes the recovery doesn't become clear to you, and getting reverse edgeguarded is never fun, so you need to make sure you know what options the foe off the stage has to hit you back, and you need to know your spacing of Falcon's moves vs. people's recoveries. Stuff like not trying to bair someone from underneath if they have a spiking/meteoring dair.

Anyway good ways to edgeguard with Falcon are with bairs and the back of his uair. You can pressure once with a bair off the edge and then wherever they go to try and avoid that, follow and knock them back with a uair while simultaneously moving back towards the edge, then up+b. If you don't move back towards the stage while doing that uair in your 2nd jump, you likely won't be able to make it back.

A single uair out of a hop off the edge hitting them away also ***** a lot of people's recoveries. Then simply jump back.
This will also eat projectiles your enemy might shoot while you are hitting them.

Remember also that depending on how far away your enemy is, and which character they are, sometimes simple edgeguarding is much more effective. Ledgehogging, uptilt, dair for example.

 

[metashinryu]

this is my first post so hey smash world

Can some one tell me the best way to edge guard with falcon.

Hears my problems
Ill often pull of some slick falcon sexiness to a knee. Thell be coming back so ill try to back air them or something. Ether ill hit them and all is good or ill miss and get gimped . Its goes about 40/60. so I started to try to go for up tilts cuz it feels safer, But no mater what if I hit them or not I get hit my self. If I miss it, with out fail they will combo me off it.

For exp (fox upB into uair)(falcos upB into bair)

Is there a better way?

tell me ur own personal syle.

well against fox/falco,if they are illusioning towards you while recovering you just nair them and they are low in the edge so its harder to sweetspot it,you utilt so your feet slams them as they are closing,try to get them with his talon so you dont get burnt/hit,also you can nair them out of their up+b, is kinda fun XD

or you can dtilt them to your heart contents in an edge,if they go slightly up,KNEE them if not just dtilt their up+b till they get tired and suicide x) try to hit with the dtilt coming out and with the tip of his feet so you dont get burnt

and for the love of god dont try to stomp them unless you are **** sure you will hit them cuz they always do some ridiculous thing that turns into their favor and you end on the recovering side.

 

[Keblerelf]

If fox/falco starts to do their up-b and they're close to you, you could jump out and knee them or jump out under them, jump and uair while di-ing towards the stage.

 

[ArcNatural]

The 4 most common ways to edgegaurd with Falcon imo:

1. Jumping off bair, not really common against spacies unless you predict a firefox and jump out. Most of the time you want to start the bair above them and fastfall into them for the best chance of success.

2. Weak knee -> w/e (usually upair). This is semi-decent against spacies pretty common combo against floaties. Your basic strategy against spacies is to shff a knee where you think there double jump trajectory off the stage will be. So if you think they are going to double jump backwards to phantasm you aim your knee to cover about half of that double jump range.

3. Dash off upair. This is pretty decent if you know how to apply it. Just dash off, fastfall below them and double jump upair into them. Works well against predicted phantasms/firefoxes. Also works really well if you predict Marth's overB stall.

4. Uptilt. It's ok but it's one of those moves that relies heavily on prediction/timing as for most character recoveries you have to put it out before you can see how they will recover.

These are I think the basic edgegaurds nowadays. Invincibility frame edgehoggin to bair/etc. isn't too common with Falcon for some reason, I think it's generally underused. Falcon's edgegaurd game is pretty decent, it's just that if you miss or get to predictable trying to edgegaurd off the stage Falcon gets wrecked. You just really need to mix it up and expect them to mix up double jump away or towards the stage.

 

[young wus]

Lol........ fox, and falco can be combo'd so easy, just get better combos in, and when u knee them they should be dead.


But For sum egde guard thing i do is:

1- I run off the map, jumb(use ur double jumb) and up air! most of the time it is very affective. then up-B back on to the ledge.

2- Grab on to the Ledge! u can either Use the R or L button to get back on.(This works really well if the are only in range of grabbing the ledge)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnE8NJIg-yg&feature=related { example, 0:53)

3- You can wait for them To up-B on to the stage, then u jumb onto the map with a Knee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vziStKcg6g {Example, 1:27, 2:17)

4- u can grap them when they recover, and combo off that! ( if fox, falco is in the range of 90-120%, u should up-throw into Foward smash!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vziStKcg6g {Example, 2:47, 3:57-4:30)

5- also u can try spiking(off or on map) u can jumb out there spike and *** back, or u can wait at the ledge and spike from there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-1Wo5c_0DQ {Example, 1:30-1:40) LOL!

6- You could use the Up- tilt, but in my opinion is a ***** move!

7- or u can jumb out the map and knee, but if u tip the knee, jumb and up-air right after.


If ur still having trouble try choosing another character. it helps ur game with falcon, i no it sounds weird but it helps.

 

[_kSo_]

The 4 most common ways to edgegaurd with Falcon imo:

1. Jumping off bair, not really common against spacies unless you predict a firefox and jump out. Most of the time you want to start the bair above them and fastfall into them for the best chance of success.

2. Weak knee -> w/e (usually upair). This is semi-decent against spacies pretty common combo against floaties. Your basic strategy against spacies is to shff a knee where you think there double jump trajectory off the stage will be. So if you think they are going to double jump backwards to phantasm you aim your knee to cover about half of that double jump range.

3. Dash off upair. This is pretty decent if you know how to apply it. Just dash off, fastfall below them and double jump upair into them. Works well against predicted phantasms/firefoxes. Also works really well if you predict Marth's overB stall.

4. Uptilt. It's ok but it's one of those moves that relies heavily on prediction/timing as for most character recoveries you have to put it out before you can see how they will recover.

I don't think you should jump out at a falco who is foward b'ing because all they need to do is do it a little earlier and gimp you. You should only jump out there to upair or whatever if you are 100% sure they are going to do forward b when you think they will. If you know where they are going to phantasm, low angled ftilts work wonders and it forces the opponent to go below the stage, therefore requiring to do an up b, which is much easier to intercept than a forward b. At this point you can just sit on them with an aerial of your choice

 

[young wus]

I don't think you should jump out at a falco who is foward b'ing because all they need to do is do it a little earlier and gimp you. You should only jump out there to upair or whatever if you are 100% sure they are going to do forward b when you think they will. If you know where they are going to phantasm, low angled ftilts work wonders and it forces the opponent to go below the stage, therefore requiring to do an up b, which is much easier to intercept than a forward b. At this point you can just sit on them with an aerial of your choice

I agree with every thing. dam i forgot 2 tell bout the foward tilt.

 

[DunSkies]

thanks you guys. the tips have taken my falcon to the next lvl. only 15 more lvl till im good at this game...

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

I guess I can do my thing too.

It depends who you're playing against. People are neglecting to mention what to do against marth.

There are a couple things you can do. One is jumping out and bairing, but this is VERY risky. This is ONLY good if you grab the ledge and fall a bair, since you can use the invincibility. The reason bair is good if it hits is that marths horizontal is so bad that even the weak bair will kill him.

The most common edge guard against marth is jumping off to grab the edge right before he up Bs, and then reverse kneeing him when he lands on the stage. Again, though this is a bit risky because if try to edgehog slightly too late you can fail to edge guard or even potentially get stage spiked.

There's a risk free variation of the above, and that's the light shield edge hog. For somereason, the only characters that do this to marth that I see are fox and falco, but it actually works with every character, and is very good with falcon because it means you can't miss the timing, and will always be able to do the reverse knee. I think this is falcons best edge guard against a marth recovering below the edge, and I'd like to see more people doing it. The only downside is that marth can potentially get the perfect up B and make it back. There's no risk to you though, and not many marths can do that, maybe m2k can do it consistently, but that's about it. The only other way marth can get around it is an air dodge to ledge grab, but you can just jump out of shield and bair when he does this.

About runoff knee against spacies.

This can be very good, but as some pointed out, you can get gimped by falco's side b. Which is why I say, waiting is the key.

Against Fox or falco, once you get them off the stage, don't go immediately for the edge guard. Wait and see what they're doing. If they're recovering below the stage, it's increbilty easy obivously to edge guard. You also have to remember that spacies players, especially falco players, love to illusion to the edge. The most common pattern of recovery is double jump away and then side B back. Learn to estimate when they'll be able to double jump and at what height they'll be when they do jump, and throw out the knee around the level of the peak of their jump. The side B will always lose if the knee is even with or slightly above the side B.

 

[DrewB008]

going off the stage to edgeguard is risky, and too many people try to do like a half committed one cause they think its safer. this isnt true. if youre going to try to go off the stage to edgeguard them, go for it like you mean it.

if not, do things like ledgehop bair or knee, or just trick them into recovering onto the stage and just hit them (bair is probably most reliable) afterwards

 

[metashinryu]

also,there are some(dumb)fox/falcos who try to hit you with illusion stuff when recovering,if you predict this you can knee them and will almost always kill them no matter what

 

[P.C. Jona]

edgegaurding off the stage with falcon isnt smart period.

your messing with the character with arguably the worst recovery in the game.

i say unless theyre recovering from high and away, dont go for it.

unless your in the middle of a combo, and theyre in stun so you can go off and knee or w/e

also if theyre far but at the same height as the stage, thats safe too.

but going down to edgegaurd, not good

isai would fastfall a back air against ken alot, low and close to the stage, but thats risky

mindgames

 

[Kurtzmann22]

depends on the matchup. but against fox/falco i'd recommend uairing their up/forward bs. btw it's pretty hard in general to edgeguard with CF, but stealing the ledge could work. remember the matchup and map as well.

WHAT WORKS: pretty much all of falcon's areials, falcon punch isn't recommended but it can work esp. against samus, up-tilt.

The strats below are basic tips for what can work, and which chars are easier to edgeguard.

EASY TO EDGEGUARD IMO:

Samus: Knee/Falcon Punch/up-tilt, all aerials

Ganondorf: uair, knee, bair

Roy: uair, bair, knee

HARD IMO:

Falco: uair, bair, knee, works, be ready to meteor cancel his forward-b,

Fox: pretty much the same, but a lot harder to guard because of up-b range, watch out for his shine.

Pikachu: good luck with this one, either uair, bair, or knee the beginning or finishing animation of the up-b, if you miss you'll most likely get f-smashed or up-smashed if you get back on the map. watch out for pikachu's tail.

Marth: same strats, but it's very risky.

DK: watch for DK's bairs., time his up-b then uair, bair, or knee then steal the ledge.

Shiek: avoid fair, knee works.

MOST RISKY AERIALS TO EDGEGUARD WITH FOR CF IMO:
Nair, very risky
Knee, if you miss there's a good chance you'll fall
Dair

LESS RISKY AERIALS:
Uair
Bair

Help that helps a bit.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

uhh, depends on the character you're guarding. If it's falco, I'd recommend just hanging on the ledge. He can't recover well so he'll probably end up killing himself. For fox, I'll let you in on my little tech. you can ledgehop, uair, and then grab the ledge again. Pretty useful as a ledgeguard against other falcons or gdorfs, but works good against fox. For marth, you have 2 options. You can be kinda sexy and do the isaiguard, being hang on the ledge, then get a reverse knee when they get on the stage, or you can be SUPARSEXY and do a emarican punch, being when they land on the stage, go for a ledgehop reverse falcon punch.
as seen in :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hky9afNCG54

 

[Afro_Chris]

When edgeguarding it's important to do 2 main things.

1.) Pressure them into certain disadvantageous recovery positions, and

2.) Wait for their reaction and recovery path to become clear, then intercept

A good player will mindgame you in their recovery so sometimes the recovery doesn't become clear to you, and getting reverse edgeguarded is never fun, so you need to make sure you know what options the foe off the stage has to hit you back, and you need to know your spacing of Falcon's moves vs. people's recoveries. Stuff like not trying to bair someone from underneath if they have a spiking/meteoring dair.

Anyway good ways to edgeguard with Falcon are with bairs and the back of his uair. You can pressure once with a bair off the edge and then wherever they go to try and avoid that, follow and knock them back with a uair while simultaneously moving back towards the edge, then up+b. If you don't move back towards the stage while doing that uair in your 2nd jump, you likely won't be able to make it back.

A single uair out of a hop off the edge hitting them away also ***** a lot of people's recoveries. Then simply jump back.
This will also eat projectiles your enemy might shoot while you are hitting them.

Remember also that depending on how far away your enemy is, and which character they are, sometimes simple edgeguarding is much more effective. Ledgehogging, uptilt, dair for example.

hey Daedatheus, ur location says toronto ontario how come i've never seen u before

 

[abit_rusty]

CF dittos : angled down ftilt -> ftilt -> ...as many times as needed... -> falcon punch

 

[metashinryu]

CF dittos : angled down ftilt -> ftilt -> ...as many times as needed... -> falcon punch

i saw that on tapion combo vid first time,no one else plays capn here so i dont get chance to do it -_-

 

[abit_rusty]

i saw that on tapion combo vid first time,no one else plays capn here so i dont get chance to do it -_-

hah yup exactly where I got it from.

Also I am appauled that no one has mentioned moonwalk -> bair.

 

[Hax]

against fastfallers, weak knee is the greatest edgeguard.. ever. utilt is whack, i like ledgehop backair and ledgehop uair (GANONDORFFFFFFF)