Edge-Guarding Tier List?

[A2ZOMG]

^That list needs moar Ganon.

 

[Nygma]

M2K-I don't understand how Sheik can be better than Marth. The fact that Marth can pretty much be extremely creative with whatever he wants to do and instill so much fear into their opponent with how to react to it is what makes him so good at edge guarding. Sheik has fair, bair, needles, and f tilt and dash attack if they make back onto the stage itself.

Marth can use any of the following respectively:

Down B
Side B
Reverse Up B
Jab
D Tilt
F Tilt
F Smash
D Smash
bair
fair
dair

Pretty much his entire move set.

Obviously you know this information.....duh. But I just personally think people hate Marths disjointed hitboxes more than sheiks easy mode combos when recovering. I'm a Marth main as well and I personally would take Sheik over Marth edge guarding me any day of the week. All of Marth's hitboxes extend below the stage on like everything and I think that is extremely annoying.

 

[gm jack]

Only if you can't sweetspot. Sheik can use ledge invincibility to do an invincible ledgehop bair which you can't do much about.

Marth can be creative, which make him excellent. Sheik doesn't even need to be creative.

 

[Geist]

Sheik is a bit like marth with needles and multiple sex kicks.

 

[Nygma]

I think marth has the best spacing in SMASH....not just Melee.

Not to bring up Brawl but if mk wasn't so dumb and snakes hitboxes weren't ******** he'd be the best character imo.

Anyway in theory, in BOTH smash games marth has the best spacing and no one can get in on his fair if spaced perfectly.

Imo marth is the defensive character in smash. Period. I also think that his build is one of the biggest reasons as to why I still think he's top three.

I've always thought fox was the best because he just does great on every stage, even or wins every mu, and is a big reason as to why most stages are banned. Lol.

Marth falco sheik and jigs are all up for grabs but I think

Fox
Marth or falco
Falco or marth
Jigs or sheik
Sheik or jigs

Sounds about right

 

[bossa nova ♪]

spacies definitely aren't the best edguarders lol...


sheik
marth/jiggz



jiggz edguarding: just go out there and hit them and then come back safer than ****

 

[KirbyKaze]

M2K-I don't understand how Sheik can be better than Marth. The fact that Marth can pretty much be extremely creative with whatever he wants to do and instill so much fear into their opponent with how to react to it is what makes him so good at edge guarding. Sheik has fair, bair, needles, and f tilt and dash attack if they make back onto the stage itself.

Marth can use any of the following respectively:

Down B
Side B
Reverse Up B
Jab
D Tilt
F Tilt
F Smash
D Smash
bair
fair
dair

Pretty much his entire move set.

Obviously you know this information.....duh. But I just personally think people hate Marths disjointed hitboxes more than sheiks easy mode combos when recovering. I'm a Marth main as well and I personally would take Sheik over Marth edge guarding me any day of the week. All of Marth's hitboxes extend below the stage on like everything and I think that is extremely annoying.

This is a horrible post.

You oversimplify Sheik, don't point out any of the flexibility she has with all those options, don't point out how those options can cover pretty much everything that Marth's edgeguard options can cover and then some because of a few important traits (she can automatically regrab the edge after Bairing, for instance), ignore some very important traits about her edgeguarding (like how she can go out further for edgeguards because of her Up+B, how her projectile can't be teched, etc.), ignore a crapton of important edgeguard abilities she has and Marth doesn't (like her punishment game vs herself and a few other characters that Marth misses out on), and then toss in garbage like D-smash for Marth's edgeguarding repertoire as if it's a useful option.

Even if Marth can be creative with his edgeguarding, that means very little if Sheik can recycle the same four or so strategies vs recoveries and kill the opponent consistently.

 

[Geist]

Problem with jiggs is like m2k mentioned, she doesnt cover multiple options as easily as other characters due to poor vertical maneuvering.
But the whole reaching everywhere thing is cool.

 

[Pi]

samus is pretty cewl edgeuarder
ehr uptilts n doesn't afraid of tradings

 

[KevinM]

Bowser's edgeguarding game is actually fairly solid, figured I should throw that out there.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Bowser's edgeguarding game actually is fairly solid.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

mfw bowser gets praised for edgeguarding

samus not even mentioned in any list.

 

[Nygma]

Kirby-

If an opponent knows sheik is going to do 1 of four things its easy to react to it or plan for it. I didn't say dsmash/f tilt etc because they are the best options....I said them because in theory...they all can work well. Marth has the ability to mess with an opponents di when edge guarding and is incredible at taking away options. You also need to take into consideration at how many sheiks are good at edge guarding........not many.

Marths on the other hand need lower execution need the ledge and all marths have a fairly solid/basic consensus of how to gimp/kill off stage.

 

[gm jack]

Most sheik's being bad at it does not take it away from her. Similar to how Fox's don't win many nationals. He's still the best. Sheik doesn't have many options, but they are all excellent and she covers pretty much all options.

 

[Comrade]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a perfect tipman stop... well, everything?

Ganon for #1

 

[-ACE-]

Haha, for real.

Ganon isn't top tier material, but I'd say he's close to high tier.

My top 5 for the hell of it.
1. Marth
2. Sheik
3. Jiggz
4. Falco
5. Fox

 

[KirbyKaze]

Kirby-

If an opponent knows sheik is going to do 1 of four things its easy to react to it or plan for it. I didn't say dsmash/f tilt etc because they are the best options....I said them because in theory...they all can work well. Marth has the ability to mess with an opponents di when edge guarding and is incredible at taking away options. You also need to take into consideration at how many sheiks are good at edge guarding........not many.

Marths on the other hand need lower execution need the ledge and all marths have a fairly solid/basic consensus of how to gimp/kill off stage.

1) Sheik's players being bad is not a fault of Sheik. Sheik's edgeguarding game is good. If Sheik players are bad, that's reflective of their own shortcomings. Most Jigglypuff players are abysmal at edgeguarding and she's being put in top 5 in most lists. Is that also incorrect because outside of like 3 Puff players everyone sucks with her?

2) It doesn't matter if you can plan for it if she can systematically cover everything.

3) If you're going to include garbage like that for Marth you should note that Sheik indisputably edgeguards a bunch of characters MUCH BETTER than Marth does. Herself, for one. She edgeguards herself better because of her superior onstage punishment game (which includes and is not limited to an inescapable CG, Dair, and a solid consistent throw --> aerial/u-smash combo). You should also note some of her own less used but viable options. Sheik's D-smash, Nair, and Dair are also great edgeguard tools when used appropriately and certainly have a lot more common applications than Marth's D-smash.

4) Messing with DI is not something unique to Marth even if he has a bunch of extra options. Sheik has a good repertoire between her weak and strong aerials, and various launchers (F-tilt, Dair, Uair, U-tilt). She also has her Fair, which has the awesome angle that sends fairly horizontal, even with DI.

 

[Zodiac]

Doc and marth and def the easiest to edge gaurd with. Link's edge game is really good, nair them and they die.

 

[Deleted member]

sheik
marth
puff
doc
fox

irrelevant afterwards.

edit: if you guys haven't figured out sheik yet:

- needle camp
- WD back > shield > react
- SH back FF autocancel fair
- shield/crouch grab
- grab > obvious followups, usually CG
- edgeguard with bair/needles/occasional dsmash
- ftilt tip hit as an anti-air, hold down during move to buffer crouch
- nair/WD back OOS if shieldgrab doesn't work
- accept free wins vs low tiers forever.

 

[KirbyKaze]

@ Zodiac

Doc can't cover as many things as quickly as many other characters (largely because of range and his relatively small, linear attacks) and he can't go out as far as them either. His jumps are also not very high (which can be a problem vs certain high recoveries) and beyond his Bair (which is sometimes not feasible to hit because it's a Bair) he doesn't have an aerial that really hits away (his Nair is too weak and doesn't have a good angle like the Bair). Cape is good, but not so good it makes up for everything.

I'm fairly sure Falco and Fox have better edgeguarding than Doc.

 

[Deleted member]

@ Zodiac

Doc can't cover as many things as quickly as many other characters (largely because of range and his relatively small, linear attacks) and he can't go out as far as them either. His jumps are also not very high (which can be a problem vs certain high recoveries) and beyond his Bair (which is sometimes not feasible to hit because it's a Bair) he doesn't have an aerial that really hits away (his Nair is too weak and doesn't have a good angle like the Bair). Cape is good, but not so good it makes up for everything.

I'm fairly sure Falco and Fox have better edgeguarding than Doc.

high end play you should assume any possible recovery options, mainly teching so killing any chance at teching is incredibly useful. doc's ability to cape/ tip bair below the edge or ledge hop invincible bairs really really ****ing good at teching, whereas falco idk any true method to prevent techs or to punish them afterwards, so IMO doc > falco for edgeguarding. not that it matters realistically cause falco can just kill them, but raw edge guarding i think doc is better.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

sheik's bair detroys recoveries F*** there's no way marth is going to edge gaurd pichu/pikachu that amazingly by the way I tech your f-smash marth's bair is to slow and doesn't last that long to cover going up, down and straight forward. Really as on the edge or edge gaurding sheik is hands down the best bair is massive as H*** and detroys everything that isn't a broken recovery. I mean if puff tryed to fight sheik's bair in mid air with fairs puff would lose.

they come from below? nair beats it or needles can be thrown from the edge(land back on stage).

they land on the stage with lag somehow? chain thrown b**** of b-throw to ****. sheik's edge gaurd is amazing nothing less. due to that massive long lasting bair it makes near impossible to trick sheik unless they aren't really watching what you're doing.

think sheik on edge with bair covers all the areas marth's f-smash could plus more and you're holding the edge forcing them not to sweetspot.

 

[KirbyKaze]

In order for people to be able to tech they have to touch the wall at some point, and I think Falco is very good at preventing people from doing that from the get-go because of how low and far he can go with his aerials offstage.

I've also seen a lot of matches where Falco uses Shine --> whatever to edgeguard, and upon teching the Shine the tech invincibility runs out before the next move hits them. I'm aware this hasn't really become a mainstream strategy but I don't think preventing techs from ruining the edgeguard is difficult with either space animal. Shine --> grab edge --> stuff, or Shine --> stuff w/ invinicibility is ridiculous.

This, in conjunction with his blatantly superior ability to cover high recoveries, makes him a better edgeguarder than Doc. In my eyes, at least.

 

[john!]

actually i find that doc is very mobile due to his quick jumps and nice wd. his bair sends them out at almost a sheik-fair angle with minimal lag, and has the added bonus of being able to be used from a ledgehop (unless you can reliably reverse fair with sheik, which isn't always feasible). it's one of the best edgeguarding moves in the game, and it can cover almost all options when recovering from above. if they try to sweetspot, you've got cape and dsmash. finally, pill spam and his quick up-b, along with ledge-invincible bair, make it nearly impossible to recover low vs. doc.

the only reason i didn't put him top tier is because he lacks disjointedness, so sometimes he'll clash with opponents' aerials and allow them to claim the ledge.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think his Bair has issues covering high, floating characters like Peach's parasol, or Fox/Falco if they're FireFoxing too high for him to reach with FJ + DJ. It seems there are more situations where he has to guess compared to some characters.

Either way, you bring up a valid point in that his low range often creates trades that wouldn't happen with a Sheik/Marth or whatever.

 

[Pi]

are we limiting edgeguarding to not letting them grab the ledge,
or not letting them back onto the stage safely?

 

[Rubyiris]

anyone who puts doc over link/young link is bad at smash.