EDC vs. IDC

[adumbrodeus]

What defines "an unnoticeable extension"? Not just that, but how far can they take that extension before they "cross the line"? 1 extension, 2, 4, 6, etc?

(To clarify for some of you, IDC and EDC involve multiple quick extensions of the cape, so it would take multiple extensions to get across a stage instead of just one smooth motion).

Don't draw a line, just ban any extension beyond simply starting it in the air.

If it's noticed that it's being extended, you broke the rule.

 

[Cirno]

Though I personally believe there won't be a noticeable accidental extension, (hell, onstage dc may disappear from competitive play as a whole) if there is, there should be no exception to the rule.

• Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.

 

[Zankoku]

A noticeable accidental extension won't actually prevent the game from continuing, though. If it's accidental, you fully know that Meta Knight will reappear in a short time later.

 

[Kitamerby]

MK, Zelda, Sheik, and Mewtwo can all disappear at will.
Meanwhile, Ice Climbers and Lucas can both freeze characters.

BAN THEM ALL.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

(also, EDC can only go sideways, you can't physically move your finger fast enough to stall in place)

Never say can't. People can do crazy things with practice. Remember Fox's shine combos and infinites in Melee?

However, the difficulty(like Fox, as he didn't win as much as Falco and Marth) is enough to make it not that much of an issue.

This doesn't really seem feasible to ban it, so no.

 

[DMG]

What I was asking was that can you guys detect the difference in duration between a regular DC, one that is extended once because of touching the ground from the air, and one that is extended slightly beyond that? I mean it may not seem like a "huge" difference, but if you make a rule banning any extensions past using it from the air, then I guarantee people are gonna nitpick about it in matches if they think their opponent went past that one extension (even if it's just 1-2 extra extensions). Even if his opponent does ndeed go over that mark, would you be able to detect it by looking at it, either on the TV or in a replay?

 

[Cirno]

A noticeable accidental extension won't actually prevent the game from continuing, though. If it's accidental, you fully know that Meta Knight will reappear in a short time later.

I mainly meant the part saying "You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects."

But I didn't want to take pieces of something and present it as the actual wording, since I hate when religions do that, and it seems really dishonest.

But I think it can apply illegal techniques aswell.

What I was asking was that can you guys detect the difference in duration between a regular DC, one that is extended once because of touching the ground from the air, and one that is extended slightly beyond that?

I think the key word here we should focus on is accidental.


I mean considering the inputs for the EDC, the areas where using the DC is even a viable option (as long as IDC and EDC are banned) and the distance traveled with each extension, is it really realistic that someone is going to perform a noticeable accidental extension?
At the point where it is noticeable, it can't be accidental anymore can it?

I mean it may not seem like a "huge" difference, but if you make a rule banning any extensions past using it from the air, then I guarantee people are gonna nitpick about it in matches if they think their opponent went past that one extension (even if it's just 1-2 extra extensions). Even if his opponent does ndeed go over that mark, would you be able to detect it by looking at it, either on the TV or in a replay?

Keyword here would be noticeable.

Let's say I am a nitpicker. I play DK v an MK who uses DC midmatch. It's not even an accidental extension, but I call it. TO comes over, watches the rest of the match and MK doesn't even use DC anymore out of fear. End match with MK for the win, and a review of replay shows the moment I call illegal. No one else can really tell whether he extended it or not, so the ruling goes as seen-- in favor of MK.

I never liked replay review however, as not all wii are equipped with the infinite replay for one, and it slows tournaments down when called into action. But I have seen it used effectively, at a tourney where DDD's smallstep chain was banned.


And if we're going to be attempting a ban on something like this, a ban mind you, which is always the last resort, shouldn't we expected to detect that line and when someone crosses it?

 

[feardragon64]

With repeated usage of IDC/EDC/whatever, you will notice the difference. Honestly if they're mashing up like once or twice and nobody notices, it's hardly going to have a stalling effect or become the "ultimate reset" that was the REASON it was banned. Using it repeatedly and generally someone will notice.

Basically, it's enforceable in that abuse of it is noticeable. It's like, how do you not notice that someone is c-sticking up more than two times when they dimensional cape. I mean, how often do you see metaknights worried about buffering a usmash out of their dimensional cape? Could they? Sure, but they can do so at their own risk. The point is it's easy NOT to do it. Therefore, it's easy to be responsible and NOT do it.

If you suspect it, get the match paused and call over a judge to monitor the rest of the match. Repeating the same thing again would just be stupid. And I don't think I've come across any players at tournaments who would actually say, "He extended his dimensional cape for like 10 frames so I missed attack, I should win the match now." That'd be like saying "That sonic was off stage and was going to run into my attack but his homing hit the stage which is like stalling(since repeated use of sonic's b attack under the stage is stalling), I think I should automatically win the match now."

 

[adumbrodeus]

Pretty much what's above. It's useless unless you can stay there indefinitely, so just a blanket ban works fine.

Never say can't. People can do crazy things with practice. Remember Fox's shine combos and infinites in Melee?

However, the difficulty(like Fox, as he didn't win as much as Falco and Marth) is enough to make it not that much of an issue.

This doesn't really seem feasible to ban it, so no.

The thing with the infinites was that they weren't humanly possible, not that they were just hard.