"Echo Characters"

[Souldin]

It seems people have are now expecting quite a few echo fighters since the term was announced. While I believe we will be getting more of them, I feel that the highlighting term was more so as a justification, rather than a statement of particular focus as well.

After all, maybe I'm being unimaginative (or the complete opposite of being too imaginative), but I struggle to consider many characters being reduced to echoes. Daisy and Lucina were fairly popular characters, so I feel other echoes would have a decent degree of popularity but not enough time (or potential in Sakurai's eyes) for a unique move-set, and it's hard to think of many that fit that bill whilst also being able to fit into another character's move-set.

I personally think we will anywhere from 1-5 more echoes; I'm confident we will see at least 1 more but no more than having 8 in the game in total... not counting potential DLC. Oddly enough, whilst I struggled to think of echoes for the Nintendo characters, it was super easy to consider them for 3rd party characters (Shadow to Sonic, Roll to Mega Man, etc.). That could perhaps be how those 3rd party series get expanded upon, with the less time consuming inclusion of Echo Fighters.

 

[RineYFD]

Metal Sonic(Sonic)
Dark Samus(Samus)
Metal/Gold Mario(Mario)
Pink Gold Peach(Peach) (To troll Nathaniel)
Octoling (Inkling)
Ninten (Ness)
Zack(Cloud)
Mis. Pac-Man(Pac-Man)
Roll(Megaman)
Medusa(Palutena)
Galactia Knight(Meta Knight)
Shadow Kirby(Kirby)
Shadow Mewtwo(Mewtwo)
Blood Falcom(Captain Falcon)
Mr. L(Luigi)
Boshi(Yoshi)

 

[HairMythe]

The only thing about Chrom being an Echo for Ike is the fact that Falchion is a much lighter sword than Ragnell. Ragnell is a two handed sword (Though Ike wields it with one hand since he's that strong.... I think, someone correct me on that if I'm wrong), and many of Ike's attacks reflect just how heavy it is. It's because Chrom has a heavier build than Marth and Lucina that having him be an Echo of Ike would be awkward. Why would someone who looks stronger physically swing a sword so much slower than the other two with the same sword?

This would be pretty evident when comparing Marth/Lucina's F Smash to Ike's. Both are swinging their swords in a similar arc down to the ground but Marth and Lucina do so almost immediately with one hand, while for Ike, it not only takes longer to bring his sword down, but he has to hold it over his head with two hands, and it makes a noticeable thud when it hits the ground, because of how heavy it is. Why would Chrom have a harder time wielding Falchion than Marth and Lucina? I suppose if they made a few of his moves faster and altered a lot of his animations, it could work, but then he'd be a clone more on the level of Dr. Mario rather than an Echo, and I'm not sure if they would consider the extra effort needed to make his attacks look right to be worth it.

This exactly. Ragnell is indeed meant to be a two-handed sword, even though every character that canonically wields Ragnell or Alondite does so with one hand. But everyone wields two-handed swords with one hand in the Tellius games, and Ragnell's depiction in Smash Bros is precisely that of a two-handed sword. And not only Fsmash, but most his moves showcase Ragnell's weight, especially Usmash and his new jab. It's not as obvious with the rest of his moveset, but most of it gives the feeling his sword is heavy.

And honestly, Chrom has enough to get in the game without being an Echo. He was worked on for SSB4 as an original character before being droped in favor of Robin who was more unique, so he's far from irrealisable, and there may be some work that can be reported to Ultimate. Making Ike's moveset work for Chrom would probably mean quite a lot of work in comparison with other Echoes, so making him a semi-clone or having him borrow animations from other fighters like Wolf did back in Brawl wouldn't be much more hard, and would be more in character.

What makes Echoes work is having similar fighting styles but distinct personalities. That lets them stand out from their original while keeping the same moveset. But that's the other way around regarding Chrom and Ike. They have distinct fighting styles but similar personalities.

 

[Souldin]

Metal Sonic(Sonic)
Dark Samus(Samus)
Metal/Gold Mario(Mario)
Pink Gold Peach(Peach) (To troll Nathaniel)
Octoling (Inkling)
Ninten (Ness)
Zack(Cloud)
Mis. Pac-Man(Pac-Man)
Roll(Megaman)
Medusa(Palutena)
Galactia Knight(Meta Knight)
Shadow Kirby(Kirby)
Shadow Mewtwo(Mewtwo)
Blood Falcom(Captain Falcon)
Mr. L(Luigi)
Boshi(Yoshi)

Those are possible Echos, though I question the likelihood of many of them, thinking about how requested some of them are. As mentioned above, I don't see Sakurai flooding the roster with Echo Fighters, treating it more of a case as adding a couple or more popular character (such as Daisy or Lucina) quickly due to lack of time/lack of move-set (as far as Sakurai considers).

Roll is certainly one I've considered, not even being a role unfamiliar with her thanks to her original appearances in Marvel Vs. Capcom. I had forgotten about Dark Samus, but she did have quite a bit of popularity to her (more as an alternative to Ridley, for those he believed he'd never get in), so I could see her added in as an echo. A big maybe to Ninten and Medusa (I like and want Medusa playable, but she always seemed to trail behind Palutena, Hades and Viridi in KI rep suggestions)... and I don't consider the others likely. I believe Blood Falcon has already been spotted as a pallete swap for Captain Falcon, likewise with Galacta Knight being a colour swap for Meta Knight.

Interesting to see you suggest Metal Sonic as an Echo when currently so many believe Shadow will be ending up as the Sonic Echo.

Edit: Ooops, missed a couple. Ms. Pac-Man, a decent chance if they have 3rd party echoes; depends on how requested I feel. Octolings meanwhile might be a bit too soon... perhaps DLC, if they include Echo Fighters for that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I really disagree here. Just because Chrom wields Falchion doesn't mean he'd play similarly to Lucina or Marth. The ladder two are more lithe and quick making them have faster movements and giving them a more precise technique with the sword.

Chrom is more bulky than both Marth and Lucina. He obviously has more muscle and armor than the two so it's really not a reach to say he'd make a good Echo Fighter for Ike, really the differences they'd need to make is removing the fire effects from Chrom along with number changes.

The only thing I believe would put a wedge in this is that we already have Lucina as an Echo Fighter in Fire Emblem, and we also already have two reps from Awakening. Two Fire Emblem Echo Fighters and three Fire Emblem: Awakening reps is a little much.

Then again, three Links is also a little much so...

Lucina and Chrom where always kinda mend as Marth and Ike expies, cause Intelligent Systems knew they where the most popular Lords. So if they where to both be Echoes, I don't think that matters much. With Roy, there's also 3 "Marths" in the game, and with Wolf back, there's also three "Foxes" in a way. I don't think it's all too bad honestly. Ike is a better fit for a Echo for Chrom than Roy is.

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

Those are possible Echos, though I question the likelihood of many of them, thinking about how requested some of them are. As mentioned above, I don't see Sakurai flooding the roster with Echo Fighters, treating it more of a case as adding a couple or more popular character (such as Daisy or Lucina) quickly due to lack of time/lack of move-set (as far as Sakurai considers).

Roll is certainly one I've considered, not even being a role unfamiliar with her thanks to her original appearances in Marvel Vs. Capcom. I had forgotten about Dark Samus, but she did have quite a bit of popularity to her (more as an alternative to Ridley, for those he believed he'd never get in), so I could see her added in as an echo. A big maybe to Ninten and Medusa (I like and want Medusa playable, but she always seemed to trail behind Palutena, Hades and Viridi in KI rep suggestions)... and I don't consider the others likely. I believe Blood Falcon has already been spotted as a pallete swap for Captain Falcon, likewise with Galacta Knight being a colour swap for Meta Knight.

Interesting to see you suggest Metal Sonic as an Echo when currently so many believe Shadow will be ending up as the Sonic Echo.

Edit: Ooops, missed a couple. Ms. Pac-Man, a decent chance if they have 3rd party echoes; depends on how requested I feel. Octolings meanwhile might be a bit too soon... perhaps DLC, if they include Echo Fighters for that.

I don't believe Captain Falcon's colors have been shown yet, as he wasn't in the E3 build on the show floor. Samus' Dark Samus skin is missing, which is in favor of them being an echo in future. But as for Blood Falcon, the jury is still out on that one until we actually see if his red alt was changed. What's always annoyed me about the Red/Blood Falcon skin for CF is that it's the one from F Zero X. I'm hoping that one day they use GX as the inspiration.

 

[RineYFD]

Those are possible Echos, though I question the likelihood of many of them, thinking about how requested some of them are. As mentioned above, I don't see Sakurai flooding the roster with Echo Fighters, treating it more of a case as adding a couple or more popular character (such as Daisy or Lucina) quickly due to lack of time/lack of move-set (as far as Sakurai considers).

Roll is certainly one I've considered, not even being a role unfamiliar with her thanks to her original appearances in Marvel Vs. Capcom. I had forgotten about Dark Samus, but she did have quite a bit of popularity to her (more as an alternative to Ridley, for those he believed he'd never get in), so I could see her added in as an echo. A big maybe to Ninten and Medusa (I like and want Medusa playable, but she always seemed to trail behind Palutena, Hades and Viridi in KI rep suggestions)... and I don't consider the others likely. I believe Blood Falcon has already been spotted as a pallete swap for Captain Falcon, likewise with Galacta Knight being a colour swap for Meta Knight.

Interesting to see you suggest Metal Sonic as an Echo when currently so many believe Shadow will be ending up as the Sonic Echo.

Edit: Ooops, missed a couple. Ms. Pac-Man, a decent chance if they have 3rd party echoes; depends on how requested I feel. Octolings meanwhile might be a bit too soon... perhaps DLC, if they include Echo Fighters for that.

I personally think Metal Sonic as an Echo for Sonic is more suitable. He is a robotic version of Sonic and has a lot more similarities to Sonic. Galacta Knight as an Echo Fighter for Meta Knight made more sense to me than just a simple palette swap. Same with Blood Falcon for Captain FalconThe game is still in development so anything can change.
Yeah I had the same reasons why I choose Roll for Megaman. Whilst I would prefer Roll's Megaman 8 look, It would most likely be 11's. Not that 11's design is bad. It's certainly less generic than her classic design.
Choose Pink Gold Peach for Peach because Nintendo loves putting her in a lot of Spinoff games (DESPITE THE FACT THERE IS LITERARY NOTHING ORIGINAL ABOUT HER. AT LEAST METAL MARIO APPEARED AS A POWER-UP FIRST AND ALSO MADE AN APPEARANCE AS A BOSS IN SMASH 64)
Medusa for Palutena's Echo Fighter was just because they had similar designs.
I feel like it'd be wrong if Ninten was included in Smash in some way because Mother 1 did start off the series. Though making him his own invidual slot would be pushing due to the similarities between him and Ness.
No comments about Zack Fair for Cloud?

 

[Souldin]

I don't believe Captain Falcon's colors have been shown yet, as he wasn't in the E3 build on the show floor. Samus' Dark Samus skin is missing, which is in favor of them being an echo in future. But as for Blood Falcon, the jury is still out on that one until we actually see if his red alt was changed. What's always annoyed me about the Red/Blood Falcon skin for CF is that it's the one from F Zero X. I'm hoping that one day they use GX as the inspiration.

Ah, my apologies, I thought I heard someone mention they saw Captain Falcon with his Blood Falcon skin when people were mentioning potential echoes before. They must have just been assuming it based on his previous palette swaps in games.

Dark Samus does have decent popularity for her, so I could see her making it in as an Echo and as one of the more likely ones.

 

[Souldin]

I personally think Metal Sonic as an Echo for Sonic is more suitable. He is a robotic version of Sonic and has a lot more similarities to Sonic. Galacta Knight as an Echo Fighter for Meta Knight made more sense to me than just a simple palette swap. Same with Blood Falcon for Captain FalconThe game is still in development so anything can change.
Yeah I had the same reasons why I choose Roll for Megaman. Whilst I would prefer Roll's Megaman 8 look, It would most likely be 11's. Not that 11's design is bad. It's certainly less generic than her classic design.
Choose Pink Gold Peach for Peach because Nintendo loves putting her in a lot of Spinoff games (DESPITE THE FACT THERE IS LITERARY NOTHING ORIGINAL ABOUT HER. AT LEAST METAL MARIO APPEARED AS A POWER-UP FIRST AND ALSO MADE AN APPEARANCE AS A BOSS IN SMASH 64)
Medusa for Palutena's Echo Fighter was just because they had similar designs.
I feel like it'd be wrong if Ninten was included in Smash in some way because Mother 1 did start off the series. Though making him his own invidual slot would be pushing due to the similarities between him and Ness.
No comments about Zack Fair for Cloud?

A fair point, though I feel Metal Sonic would have a greater weight difference and while popular, probably isn't as overall popular as Shadow. Until Shadow gets revealed as an Assist Trophy, he is still the more likely Echo, but a Metal Sonic is a fair enough alternative.

Frankly, if anyone from the 'current pallet swap' gets upgraded into an Echo before release, it should be Alph. If I recall correctly, he was originally planned to be a separate character alongside Lucina and Dark Pit but they ran out of time. It's a shame that they didn't take the chance to do that; there are plenty of ways you could separate Pikmin characters, both in small and big ways.

Roll's Mega Man 8 look is my favourite as well; though her 11 look is indeed still better than her original design. Roll was part of my main team in Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom, so provided she's added in as a non-time consuming echo fighter (don't want time taken away from creating original 1st and 2nd party Nintendo additions), I would quite like to see her pop up in playable form.

Ah, I didn't comment on Zack for Cloud. That could work, though I feel the priority for Echo 3rd Party inclusions would probably go Sonic and Mega Man first... I'm unsure if they'd include any more 3rd Party Echo Fighters after that (though I do feel there will be 1-5 Echo Fighters, so maybe).

 

[pupNapoleon]

Not too many differences. Toon Link has a different FSmash, DSmash is 2 hits (if it's the same as Smash 4). Young Link has fire arrows.
That's all I could think off. There are probably some more tiny differences.

Young Link never had a final Smash

I think I figured out why people took after Echo characters when they hated Clones before. It's all in the psychology. By acknoledging them as seperate from "real" fighters by giving them a label, it changes the internal narrative from "these are lazily done characters" to "these are characters that wouldn't be in otherwise". So instead of people dreading their bigger character ends up as clone, they're ecstatic that their lesser characters could be in the game.

Marketing is important.

 

[PsySmasher]

Young Link never had a final Smash.

I meant forward smash not final smash.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Okay so I’ll admit Waddle Dee sounded better in my head than on paper...sorry guys

But to give another example of what I mean by using old customs to create new echoes, imagine Dry Bowser having the same properties as Bowser but taking his Fire Shot, Dash Slash, Flying Fortress and Turbulent Bomb customs from Smash 4. Or any other combination you can think of. You then have a similar situation to Dark Pit that has the potential to open up some different options.

 

[ZTurtle]

I personally think Metal Sonic as an Echo for Sonic is more suitable. He is a robotic version of Sonic and has a lot more similarities to Sonic.

Metal Sonic would work as a Sonic Echo yes, but I still feel like Shadow would work better. For one thing, Metal Sonic doesn't use the Spin Dash nearly as much as Shadow, and considering how two of Sonic's specials are the Spin Dash, that would be sort of weird. Compare that to Shadow, who Spin Dashes in just about every game that you can Spin Dash in (And the ones he's playable in). Metal Sonic only spin dashes in Rivals 2, and SADX and that's just because everyone does in Rivals 2, and because he's just a skin in SADX. He can't even Spin Dash in Sonic Adventure 2 Multiplayer. Plus all of Sonic's moves where he curls up looks kind of organic and bouncy.

Considering Metal Sonic having a stiffer body on account of being made of metal and all, I feel that it would make any move where he curls up to look a little awkward, assuming he would become a similar "ball model" like Sonic. Again, Metal Sonic could work, since the Spin Dash reasoning I had potentially doesn't matter since he has been shown to Spin Dash in a few games anyway, but I feel Shadow would be more fitting overall, being organic like Sonic and consistently shown to be able to do everything that he does. The only thing I feel Metal Sonic has going for him over Shadow is the fact that his unique running animation would be much easier to animate (Since it would just be him flying rather than the skating Shadow would have to have).

 

[Fane]

Shadow as an Echo would be a HUGE missed opportunity.

If you played his game on the Gamecube you'd know there's a LOT of potential for a unique moveset and playstyle.

If he is an Echo I wouldn't be upset, he's one of the few third parties I actually WANT, but I'd also want him to be brought in to his full potential rather than as a copy paste of Sonic.

 

[Souldin]

Shadow as an Echo would be a HUGE missed opportunity.

If you played his game on the Gamecube you'd know there's a LOT of potential for a unique moveset and playstyle.

If he is an Echo I wouldn't be upset, he's one of the few third parties I actually WANT, but I'd also want him to be brought in to his full potential rather than as a copy paste of Sonic.

I personally think there's a lot of potential for any Echo Fighter. Heck, I remember my younger brother complaining a ton about all the ways Dark Pit could have been unique. I don't think anyone likes the idea of clones, or in this case, Echoes; we simply expect them given how they've been highlighted.

My expectation for 3rd party Echoes is in how it allows the 3rd party rosters to expand without taking much time (or a slot as it were), keeping the development time for original newcomers from the Nintendo series in the game. I would be disappointed with a Shadow not throwing out Chaos Spears (though Echoes can have minor changes, Dark Pit does have a different Final Smash), but as someone who isn't ecstatic about the amount of 3rd party additions as it is, I'd be fine if further additions to already present 3rd party series are just through Echoes.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Friend of mine had an idea.

We were talking Gardevoir as an echo and how replacing the Phantom would make things odd, and he suggested that one solution was Gardevoir as an Echo of Rosalina instead, without the Luma and attack power adjusted to compensate. Rosalina's floating does match up more with Gardevoir's natural movement in my mind.

Only problem I can see is how flippin' tall Rosalina is.

 

[Souldin]

Friend of mine had an idea.

We were talking Gardevoir as an echo and how replacing the Phantom would make things odd, and he suggested that one solution was Gardevoir as an Echo of Rosalina instead, without the Luma and attack power adjusted to compensate. Rosalina's floating does match up more with Gardevoir's natural movement in my mind.

Only problem I can see is how flippin' tall Rosalina is.

Gardevoir's height is apparently... 1.6m So a tad shorter than Rosalina.

I'm unsure if Sakurai would go for cross series Echo fighters. After all, the last time he made a cross series clone, it received a lot of complaints... and has continued to receive complaints because he has still yet to overhaul that decision. Your idea would be pretty cool though, and Gardevoir is a pretty popular Pokémon that I don't see getting in other circumstances.

Speaking of Echo Fighters, I was wondering... if a character was made as a stand-in for solo Charizard, so same as Ultimate's Charizard but with Rock Smash for the Down Special and a different final smash; would that count as an Echo Fighter or would the differences of a whole down special/lack of trainer mechanic regard said stand-in as a clone/semi-clone?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Shadow as an Echo would be a HUGE missed opportunity.

If you played his game on the Gamecube you'd know there's a LOT of potential for a unique moveset and playstyle.

If he is an Echo I wouldn't be upset, he's one of the few third parties I actually WANT, but I'd also want him to be brought in to his full potential rather than as a copy paste of Sonic.

Here's the sad realization, even if they do have some differences despite having the same core kit, Shadow's only chance to get into Smash is as an Echo I feel, I don't think he'd get priority in any situation besides being an Echo with statistical differences.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Gardevoir's height is apparently... 1.6m So a tad shorter than Rosalina.

I'm unsure if Sakurai would go for cross series Echo fighters. After all, the last time he made a cross series clone, it received a lot of complaints... and has continued to receive complaints because he has still yet to overhaul that decision. Your idea would be pretty cool though, and Gardevoir is a pretty popular Pokémon that I don't see getting in other circumstances.

Speaking of Echo Fighters, I was wondering... if a character was made as a stand-in for solo Charizard, so same as Ultimate's Charizard but with Rock Smash for the Down Special and a different final smash; would that count as an Echo Fighter or would the differences of a whole down special/lack of trainer mechanic regard said stand-in as a clone/semi-clone?

The game and Nintendo would call them an Echo, Smashboards would debate about it until the end of time. Like Wolf's status and at what point is Luigi unique enough to be considered his own character.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Metal Sonic won't get into the game Shadow will be Sonics Echo if he even gets one as much as I want Metal Sonic to be its own character because he can be heavier a bit slower and could shoot missiles and can fly kind of but they won't because it to closely resembles Sonic not to be an echo and they're trying to advertise echoes so they want to have any character that has a great simularity to another one to be an echo unfortunately I'm fairly sure that metal Sonic will never be a character even though that's the character I've wanted most in a smash game

 

[Teeb147]

The thing is 'echo fighter' is a new concept, and there's no precedent to say whether they want to have cross series ones. The 3 we have are from the same series. It really depends on nintendo's sensibilities now, how far are they willing to go? Daisy's easy, Dark Samus would be too. Then it really depends.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Judging by removed colors, Chrom or Dark Samus could be Echos but both of them can also be back in their old roles as Final Smash/Assist Trophy. Plus Chrom color's absence can be explained by the need for young and old Ike to have their own color slots.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I really wish SE wasn't so tight with their properties because if they weren't I could be excited at the prospect of a Zack Fair Echo of Cloud.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Shadow as an Echo would be a HUGE missed opportunity.

If you played his game on the Gamecube you'd know there's a LOT of potential for a unique moveset and playstyle.

If he is an Echo I wouldn't be upset, he's one of the few third parties I actually WANT, but I'd also want him to be brought in to his full potential rather than as a copy paste of Sonic.

While he could be unique it feels like one of those cases where it's echo or bust, I don't see much reason to add shadow over tails, Shadow's only shot is an echo fighter tbh. And he's similar enough to Sonic where it still makes sense and doesn't really go against his character at all

 

[perfectchaos83]

In my opinion, these are the most likely Echos (Not delving into 3rd parties, that's a whole can of worms I don't want to delve into at the moment)

Medusa (Palutena)
Dark Samus (Samus)
Isabelle (Villager)
Chrom (Ike)
Dixie (Diddy [It would honestly be really ****ing stupid, but they did change Diddy's jab...])
Black Shadow (Captain Falcon)

 

[Aetheri]

Shadow as an Echo would be a HUGE missed opportunity.

If you played his game on the Gamecube you'd know there's a LOT of potential for a unique moveset and playstyle.

If he is an Echo I wouldn't be upset, he's one of the few third parties I actually WANT, but I'd also want him to be brought in to his full potential rather than as a copy paste of Sonic.

I mean, that's pretty much my exact stance on Dark Samus. She is capable of far more than just being Black Samus with phazon. One of the reasons she's my second most wanted newcomer is because of her potential with her phazon abilities.

But at this point, its pretty much be added as an echo/clone or not at all. Especially in Dark Samus's case where she's less likely to appear in future titles.


I'm also a little surprised not a lot of people here are talking about Alph, since he was considered to be upgraded into a full clone in Sm4sh and he is confirmed to be in the game with Olimar (we just don't know if he's just an alt again or if he's been made into an echo fighter)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Thinking about 3rd party echos, I think we may get one per company rather than series (If Sonic get shadow, no echo for Bayonetta). Though given that Ryu's technically owned by Capcom USA I'm not sure what that would mean between it and Mega Man.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Thinking about 3rd party echos, I think we may get one per company rather than series (If Sonic get shadow, no echo for Bayonetta). Though given that Ryu's technically owned by Capcom USA I'm not sure what that would mean between it and Mega Man.

I'd be down for Ken, I'm not sure if they'll do a Megaman Echo but I'd be down for any of the other Megamen, although their proportions might be a little too different unless they say shrunk X, but if they wanna do rivals we could totally have Bass even if he's in Megas final smash now.

Then we can imitate Megaman 7 and 8 scenes.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'd be down for Ken, I'm not sure if they'll do a Megaman Echo but I'd be down for any of the other Megamen, although their proportions might be a little too different unless they say shrunk X, but if they wanna do rivals we could totally have Bass even if he's in Megas final smash now.

Then we can imitate Megaman 7 and 8 scenes.

Well we could always have Roll. She was basically Mega MAn's echo in the roignal Marvel vs Capcom and she's not tied up in his Final Smash.

Proper Smash Proto Man and Bass would be amazing though

 

[DMurr]

I don't think we'll end up getting echoes of third party characters. They'd still be guest characters, and I think Sakurai feels like those deserve special treatment.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I don't think we'll end up getting echoes of third party characters. They'd still be guest characters, and I think Sakurai feels like those deserve special treatment.

While I do see this logic I kinda see Ken and Shadow as very easy hype builders for people in both fan bases even if they were Echoes. Yes I know both of them have unique aspects to them but I feel it'd be a cool inclusion in both cases, maybe give them some extra touches compared to Dark Pit and Lucina

Ken was also the original "player 2" of fighting games too.

 

[WertQuadNine]

I don't think we'll end up getting echoes of third party characters. They'd still be guest characters, and I think Sakurai feels like those deserve special treatment.

Yeah, when it comes to it, echo fighters are still 3rd party non-nintendo characters. That means going to the publishers and negotiating to use their character. People assume that since Capcom's agreed for Ryu means Capcom agrees to anything Street Fighter (just an example). I'm pretty sure Sakurai can't just go ahead and add characters like Ken without contacting Capcom and negotiating to include him. That likely means money is involved, and why would they want to go through that just for a clone character.

 

[DarthEnderX]

where? the umbrella? that's not float..

Oh. My bad.

Random idea: how would you react if Smash Ultimate had a Season pass of a set number of characters and stages and the bonus for buying in/ getting all the DLC was an Echo character, say Octolings?

An entire character, even if it's just an Echo, seems like too important a bonus for something like that.

Gardevoir's height is apparently... 1.6m So a tad shorter than Rosalina.

Between Olimar, and now Ridley, they clearly don't care about heights anymore.

Proper Smash Proto Man and Bass would be amazing though

If they do a 2nd completely separate Mega Man character, I'd want it to be someone from a separate subseries. Like Zero from MMX.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I put together a roster of who I think could (emphasis on could, lest someone try to hang, draw and quarter me for putting Dixie on the list) be Echo Fighters.

To explain the list, the characters in Green are the Echos and the ones in blue are the ones they echo (sometimes multiple choice like in Ninten's case).
First lot is general Nintendo, the second lot is Pokemon, as I had to get a bit creative with them, and the bottom row is 3rd parties.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I wonder if Medusa could get in as an echo of Palutena

Edit: Apparently other people have thought of that as well. Including the person that posted before me

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

I don’t know the Mother series very well; what slight tweaks could they make to Ninten to differentiate him from Ness/Lucas? Maybe make him a mix and match combo of the two like how Ness had Lucas’ specials as customs pre-DLC?

Also ever since that Smashified I’ve wanted a Travis shout-out but I know that’s never gonna happen.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don’t know the Mother series very well; what slight tweaks could they make to Ninten to differentiate him from Ness/Lucas? Maybe make him a mix and match combo of the two like how Ness had Lucas’ specials as customs pre-DLC?

Also ever since that Smashified I’ve wanted a Travis shout-out but I know that’s never gonna happen.

Ninten knows little to no offensive PSI, so making his attacks more physical could do the trick (I’ve actually noticed that most of Ness’ and Lucas’ normal moves now have PSI effects, so I’m wondering if that might be to differentiate from Ninten. Probably wishful thinking.)

Other than that, Ninten would need a different Final Smash (Starstorm didn’t exist), and iirc Flash would have to be changed too.

 

[TimonBoyd]

Crash for Smash!!!

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I wonder if Medusa could get in as an echo of Palutena

Edit: Apparently other people have thought of that as well. Including the person that posted before me

I don't really see it tbh, first off, shield, and I also feel like medusa could be a super cool unique character so it'd be kind of a waste

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't really see it tbh, first off, shield, and I also feel like medusa could be a super cool unique character so it'd be kind of a waste

I think people should be a realistic of what they can do or what they would do rather than what they should do or what's possible.