"Echo Characters"

[MoonlitIllusion]

You think Fox's father is more obscure than Panther?

At least panther is a main character in a couple games, James only shows up for a short scene or 2 in most of the games

 

[aarchak]

Honestly, I want Celica as an echo fighter of Robin. Echoes was one of my favorite FE games and I really want her in Smash, even if there are a lot of FE characters in already.

Also I want some echo fighter of a different series than the original, but I haven't seen any really creative ideas for this.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Honestly, I want Celica as an echo fighter of Robin. Echoes was one of my favorite FE games and I really want her in Smash, even if there are a lot of FE characters in already.

Also I want some echo fighter of a different series than the original, but I haven't seen any really creative ideas for this.

Either that or an alt, while Alm goes the same way

 

[Alexray35]

Here are my predictions/ideas/wishlist. The first two rows are the confirmed ones and Olimar/Alph.

Notes: Dr. Luigi could also work as a Luigi EF, and most Pokémon could also be EF of other characters.
The first Meta Knight EF was supposed to be Dark Meta Knight, my bad.

 

[DarthEnderX]

At least panther is a main character in a couple games, James only shows up for a short scene or 2 in most of the games

Yeah, but the games he shows up in are all the ones people like. Whereas most of the games Panther is in are the spinoff games nobody likes.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Yeah, but the games he shows up in are all the ones people like. Whereas most of the games Panther is in are the spinoff games nobody likes.

Assault isn't a spinoff and people generally liked that though

 

[grizby2]

haven't seen shadow, and it seems knuckles is an assist trophy now! :O

Spoiler: reasons for shadow

I think his chances are pretty damn high, especially seeing dark Samus ascending to playable status. maybe Sakurai is looking at all the "probably-would-have-been-a-clone" assist trophies and is now making them playable instead. it would also be very simple to make him an echo fighter of sonic. There's ALOT that they can use to do this.
1. they already have his character model
2. both sonic and shadow have similar model shapes.
3. shadows final smash would simply be super shadow. easy peazy.
4. the aesthetic and mechanical differences between the two are already established (sonic is faster, shadow would be slower. he might also fall slower due to jet boots!)
5. I'm pretty sure they can use shadow's voice actor, Kirk Thornton (voiced him in smash 4) or Jason Griffith (voiced both shadow and sonic in brawl). not sure about the other languages though.. (sonic is currently voiced by Roger Craig Smith in smash ultimate I believe)this ones just speculation honestly

I'm not exactly a super big Shadow fan or anything ( I honestly like metal sonic more~), but I can think of a few reasons of why he be a good addition the roster.

1. he's an edge-lor- er.. anti hero! gives more personality to the roster.
2. he'd be a very easy fan pleaser (A.K.A. Nintendo could probably milk that **** dry)
3. this could be a way to use sonic's old custom specials from smash 4. I say this because after seeing the changes to Palutena's moveset regarding her specials, it looks like they're hinting that custom moves are no longer a thing (with the miis being the one exception, seeing how the custom moves were part of their appeal starting from their conception)

I know that just because we haven't SEEN Shadow as an assist trophy doesn't mean that he's going to be playable, But after what they did to Dark Samus, Id say that Shadow being a playable character now is completely plausible.

id also hope for Ninten as an echo for ness. hes only appeared as a lousy sticker :[

 

[DarthEnderX]

Assault isn't a spinoff

...c'mon guy.

and people generally liked that though

Nobody who loved Star Fox 64 has liked any Star Fox game since then.

Star Fox is Nintendo's version of the Sonic franchise. Where everyone on the planet knows exactly what people like about that franchise, but the developers absolutely refuse to just do more of that and instead fill every subsequent game with a ton of crap nobody wants.

 

[GoodGrief741]

...c'mon guy.

Nobody who loved Star Fox 64 has liked any Star Fox game since then.

Star Fox is Nintendo's version of the Sonic franchise. Where everyone on the planet knows exactly what people like about that franchise, but the developers absolutely refuse to just do more of that and instead fill every subsequent game with a ton of crap nobody wants.

I loved 64 and Assault... Then again, I also liked Adventures and parts of Command, so maybe my taste is just bad.

 

[Oblivion129]

Chrom (Ike) Aether would be more diagonal, Eruption could be changed.
Alm (Roy) With no sweetspot/sourspot
And basically all of this

Well I guess I got the Roy echo part at least lol

With the inclusion of Richter I'd like to name some third party echoes I think could make it in.
Zack (Cloud)
Shadow (Sonic)
Mrs. Pac-Man (Pac-Man)
Ken (Ryu)

 

[spoilerowl]

I think Shadow is a lock at this point. If Simon, a character who was just added, is getting a relatively obscure Echo in Richter, then surely Sonic, a character who has been in all Smash games since Brawl, will get an Echo. An Echo who is an extremely popular character, no less, and who's been absent as an AT from both Directs. I think Ken is also pretty likely, but Shadow is the only one I'm pretty certain on.

As far as first-party Echoes go...

Isabelle is also very likely. Verg has mentioned her, plus there was that new AC Assist Trophy. And she's apparently super popular in Japan, even in a non-Smash context.
Dixie I could see as well. Metroid got a Ridley trailer, and then later Dark Samus, I could see DK getting the same treatment. Especially with Chrom being a mixed Echo, Dixie could be mostly Diddy but with certain changes, which fits.

Other options I'll throw out include Impa, Funky Kong, Ninten, Black Shadow, Ms. Pac-Man, and Octoling. But in my opinion, none of those are as likely as the ones above.

 

[JohannFKNFaust]

Is it just me or does Chroom look more like an Ike EF rather than a Roy EF? I'm mainly refering to that

 

[The Legendary Beast]

I'm probably over thinking this but, has anyone suggested that Shiek's final smash was changed to a more Shiekah one because Impa is an echo of Shiek and a light arrow wouldn't make sense for Impa?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is it just me or does Chroom look more like an Ike EF rather than a Roy EF? I'm mainly refering to that

He does have Ike's up special. But if all the rest are Roy's, then he's more of a Roy echo.

I'm not sure how he can have a move from a completely different character and still be considered and echo while Dr. Mario and Pichu are still considered separate characters...

 

[ZTurtle]

At this point, I'm thinking that the defining aspects of an Echo are identical skeletons, and nearly identical weight and speed. With Chrom having that different Up B, the only thing about Doc that I could imagine is keeping him from being an Echo is his significantly slower speed, smaller jump, and maybe his DAir that is completely different (As in, not taken from anyone).

Well, I say that, but most likely the main, if not the only reason Doc isn't considered an Echo is the fact that he was in Melee, and thus warrants his own number. I guess we'll see depending on how different the other Echoes will be, and whether or not Doc has any other new moves.

 

[Gengar84]

Does anybody think we might get echoes from a different series than its original character its echoing such as Blaziken over Captain Falcon, The Black Knight over Ganondorf? I don't think the chances are too likely but I think there is a lot of potential for interesting echoes if so.

 

[NintenZ]

If we get Elma then a Fiora Echo would go along with her quite nicely.

 

[Yuya-Noboru]

"Echo" characters?

Dark Samus confirmed.

You made my day, hahaha!

 

[QrowinSP]

I personally would like to see the lack of Zelda characters somewhat remedied with echoes. Impa for shiek, demise for ganondorf, and twili midna for Zelda.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Well, I say that, but most likely the main, if not the only reason Doc isn't considered an Echo is the fact that he was in Melee, and thus warrants his own number.

I was also beginning to wonder if that might not be the reason.

It's a nonsense reason if that's the case, but I certainly wouldn't put it past them for that to be it.

Does anybody think we might get echoes from a different series than its original character its echoing such as Blaziken over Captain Falcon, The Black Knight over Ganondorf? I don't think the chances are too likely but I think there is a lot of potential for interesting echoes if so.

Anything is possibly, but personally, I HOPE they don't do that.

Ganondorf still being Falcon's semi clone is one of the most infuriating things they haven't fixed about this game still.

 

[QrowinSP]

I was also beginning to wonder if that might not be the reason.

It's a nonsense reason if that's the case, but I certainly wouldn't put it past them for that to be it.

There’s also the fact that echoes tend to not vary from their originals in terms of damage output, floatiness, speed, etc., while characters like doc and pichu do.

 

[Yuya-Noboru]

I personally would like to see the lack of Zelda characters somewhat remedied with echoes. Impa for shiek, demise for ganondorf, and twili midna for Zelda.

I'm not a fan of that universe but having 3 Link and Zelda/Sheik as separate characters is kind of... terrible. Half of the Zelda's roster in Smash are redundant. Hopefully, there will be new characters announcement so we might get a nice Zelda character.

By the way: Doc Mario could be qualified as an Echo fighter back in the day but now he has different MoveSet & Attributes.

 

[QrowinSP]

I'm not a fan of that universe but having 3 Link and Zelda/Sheik as separate characters is kind of... terrible. Half of the Zelda's roster in Smash are redundant. Hopefully, there will be new characters announcement so we might get a nice Zelda character.

By the way: Doc Mario could be qualified as an Echo fighter back in the day but now he has different MoveSet & Attributes.

I’m hoping on skull kid. And I want the echoes so we at least get more of the universe in smash.

 

[Koopaul]

A lot of people seem to think Sakurai will be making any old character into an echo character because it might work.

After the Direct and seeing Chrom, Dark Samus, and Richter, I am convinced that you still need to be relatively popular for it to happen. So far all the echos I believe might have made a bit of a splash on the Ballot. Certainly not in the top 10, but definitely in the top 50 or 60.

So I think I saw someone suggest Boshi as a Yoshi echo? I'm sorry but that is definitely not happening.

 

[Yuya-Noboru]

I agree with you, they'll only add highly requested characters. Boshi will never receive the Smash invitational letter.

 

[PeridotGX]

Does anybody think we might get echoes from a different series than its original character its echoing such as Blaziken over Captain Falcon, The Black Knight over Ganondorf? I don't think the chances are too likely but I think there is a lot of potential for interesting echoes if so.

I think we may, but there are very few that make any sence. The only ones I can think of are the aforementioned Blaziken for Falcon and maybe Susie (Kirby) for Bowser. Jr

 

[TheZoologist]

Gotta say, I feel much better about Echo Fighters after it was revealed you can choose to have them as their own slots on the CSS or put them as an option alongside their original counterparts. Being able to choose one or the other is a great idea and makes me feel less apprehensive about a lot of them being in. They can be their own characters or be treated as more like an alternate skin with their own unique idle animations and what not.

 

[Inawordyes]

Now that we see that echoes can have very wildly different idles/walks/runs and even take moves from multiple characters, I would really like to see a [King] Boo Echo of Jigglypuff with maybe some Kirby thrown in there too like Chrom. Jigglypuff's moveset for the most part works quite well for Boo anyways, just let them float in the idles/walks/runs like Dark Samus

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I wouldn't say it was highly requested characters only, though they'll definitely be prioritised.

I don't think Hilda had too much Ballot play but I'm still sure she'll be a Zelda Echo.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Since echo characters can be stacked into the character they are echoed from, I don't think we're getting any from a different franchise than the original

 

[lightdasher]

I hope for a Medusa echo.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I hope for a Medusa echo.

I'd love to have medusa in but I honestly don't think she has enough in common with palutena to make it naturally work, first off she doesn't have a shield, and the wings on her down and side smash would look out of place, the kicks might look weird since her dress covers her feet. If they could make it work though I'd be all for it though

 

[Nothgard]

the only possible echos for the next smash direct's are shadow, akuma or ken, isabelle, earthbound and f-zero character

Other characters? I do not think so

 

[fogbadge]

I wouldn't say it was highly requested characters only, though they'll definitely be prioritised.

I don't think Hilda had too much Ballot play but I'm still sure she'll be a Zelda Echo.

thats true daisy certainly didnt seem to have much support

 

[lightdasher]

I'd love to have medusa in but I honestly don't think she has enough in common with palutena to make it naturally work, first off she doesn't have a shield, and the wings on her down and side smash would look out of place, the kicks might look weird since her dress covers her feet. If they could make it work though I'd be all for it though

Easy fixes.

Replace the wings with either dark versions of wings, or dark energy.
Shield doesn't need to be there, can always be an elbow smack ;P
Kicks wouldn't be a problem if you either moved the dress up a little, or just changed the animation of the move slightly

 

[EricTheGamerman]

With the recent announcements of Echo fighters, I think they're primarily going to be for the requested first party characters that otherwise wouldn't be in the game. Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus all fit that description (Not that they couldn't be unique on their own, but lower priority as unique fighters). Richter is the only exception, and he's just a massive fan service rep for a new series that I've also heard is much more popular in Japan due to his appearance in Rondo of Blood (The best Castlevania originally released only in Japan). Even more interestingly though, is that Chrom shows Echo fighters can be Frankensteined from existing move sets of multiple characters (Though we don't know how far that extends either).

A big thing I see is that Sakurai is going to include an Echo of every third party now that one is confirmed. That's just a bit too many in my mind. The more Echo fighters you have, the more development they will inevitably take, and I don't see some of the choices as actually important ones anyway.

The Echo fighters I can see being in the game still are:



Dixie Kong - If she can get an Up-B Hair Twirl from another character. I don't see her in the game without that happening.

Isabelle - She's just extremely popular. Could be unique, but I still lean towards Echo, especially with how Chrom doesn't quite fit the model of Roy exactly.

Medusa - I know she's had a small sort of presence since Smash 4 as a choice. She isn't a huge character, but she does get a serious benefit from belonging to Sakurai's other big project. I think that might be enough to get her in as I don't know if she'd get the priority as a unique fighter otherwise.

Shadow - He's had a halfway decent request support, Sonic is main legacy third party at this point, and he's just popular in his own right.

Ken - I'm stretching to include Ken, but his role is traditionally as the clone of Ryu, and having him and Ryu in the game is an iconic moment to help represent Street Fighter.



The Echo fighters I don't see:



Jeanne - Bayonetta's alt for her is still in the game, which I take as a pretty damning moment for her. Out of all the third party characters she is also arguably least deserving of an Echo. Not to mention I don't think she's super popular anywhere either.

Zak - The gap between Cloud's popularity and Zak's popularity has to be massive. He wouldn't have any ballot support given Cloud was the surprise moment of Smash 4's DLC anyway. I'm not even sure Square cares enough to push him, or that Sakurai would care enough to include him.

Any Snake Echo - Big Boss doesn't really need to be an Echo as much as just a costume, Old Snake and Punished Snake I don't see. There is Raiden I suppose, but his base pre-Cyborg form is generally an unpopular character from what I've seen. I'd absolutely take him if we got Revengance music out of the deal though.

Sonic Echo fighters other than Shadow - If we get an Echo of Sonic, I think it has to be Shadow. Metal Sonic would work I suppose, but he doesn't have the popularity or precedence over Shadow. I think Tails is way too different from Sonic for Sakurai to decide he makes sense as an Echo fighter, I could see him as original... but that's a stretch.

Akuma - I know this could work, but I really think that Ken is just the much more likely choice.

Mrs Pac-Man - Mrs Pac Man would be excellent, but from what I hear her rights are stuck with Midway and I doubt that Sakurai would negotiate from an entirely new company for an Echo as iconic as she is. Might not sit well with Bandai-Namco anyways, or they might have their own issues in even trying to negotiate.

Ninten - He'd work just fine as Echo. I just don't think he has the popularity to make it, and before the concept of Echo fighters was revealed, he had absolutely no presence I ever really saw. He'd be an Echo fighter existing for the sake of an Echo fighter, and I'm not sure Sakurai would have taken much note of him. He'd be neat, but I just really don't see it happening.

Octolings - Yeah... this one is going to get some flak. Honestly, I've yet to see a single reason as to why they should be an Echo fighter and not a costume... Prior to the confirmation of the game, Inklings would have had literally ALL the support for Smash Ultimate. Octolings wouldn't even be a mention (Except MAYBE as a costume). People were exclusively focused on getting them into the game, and their presence wasn't all that huge until Splatoon 2, and really until the Octo expansion was announced earlier this year. Even THEN they didn't get any attention until Sakurai revealed Echo fighters at E3 and people just went, "oh... yeah that'd work." Splatoon is a big new IP, I'll give you that, but I pretty much entirely doubt Sakurai considered them at all when he was focused on adding Inklings. Richter was a long established and popular character prior to the reveal, the Octolings weren't even in the same ball park. Not to mention, you don't have a Direct on 8/8/18 and just miss the chance to do that little moment if they're in the game.


Sakurai is already leaning more heavily on Echo fighters than I thought he would. I don't he's going to go that insane with a ton more at this point...

Edit: This isn't super comprehensive, but just my thoughts on a few on the most commonly suggested ones and primarily my take on third party Echo fighters.

I did forget to mention I see Impa as a possible Echo fighter for Shiek as she does have some support, Zelda could use more characters, but she could also be a unique newcomer as well.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Me and a friend had an unusual Echo idea!

Tetra as an echo of... Toon Link.

Hear me out, she'd lack his shield but she'd have Ice Arrows to compensate. Goes without saying that she'd use Zelda's old Light Arrow Final Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

At this point, I'm thinking that the defining aspects of an Echo are identical skeletons, and nearly identical weight and speed. With Chrom having that different Up B, the only thing about Doc that I could imagine is keeping him from being an Echo is his significantly slower speed, smaller jump, and maybe his DAir that is completely different (As in, not taken from anyone).

Well, I say that, but most likely the main, if not the only reason Doc isn't considered an Echo is the fact that he was in Melee, and thus warrants his own number. I guess we'll see depending on how different the other Echoes will be, and whether or not Doc has any other new moves.

Yes, I think it's basically what you said. An echo needs to be similar enough that they could almost be an alternate costume, which includes being from the same series. This is supported by Sakurai grouping them together with the same number and being able to combine them on the CSS.

So it's important that their physical attributes like weight, speed and size are nearly the same, but some examples show they can differ a little. Besides unique animations and effects, we've also seen that they can have at least a couple unique moves, including their Final Smash.

Dr. Mario seems the closest to being an echo, but maybe he's not because he kinda sorta represents his own series, or his attributes are just different enough from Mario to warrant being unique, or he's from the Melee era where none of the other clones are being considered echoes, or perhaps a combination of all of that.

 

[Troykv]

Sakurai is going wild with echo fighters! The possibilities are bigger now! There are still some unknown rule to be proven or not; but damn! I hope I can get another of my favorite characters <3

Richter was a very cool choice :D

 

[DarthEnderX]

the only possible echos for the next smash direct's are shadow, akuma or ken, isabelle, earthbound and f-zero character

Other characters? I do not think so

I agree these are the likely ones for launch. But for DLC, I think anything is possible.

Even more interestingly though, is that Chrom shows Echo fighters can be Frankensteined from existing move sets of multiple characters

Mega Man + Link's shield mechanics = Proto Man.

I will say though that I wish these Echo fighters were being used to bring back some of the custom moves from Smash 4 for these characters that got cut.

So for a character like Proto Man, instead of having:
Metal Blade, Crash Bomber, Rush Coil and Leaf Shield
He could have:
Shadow Blade, Danger Wrap, Beat and Skull Shield