Early Smash 5 Fan-Made Rosters (Ideal or Prediction)

[Ura]

Hmm....

You know, maybe I should make a roster. Would you guys even be interested in that?

Let the world hear it!

 

[Sharkarat]

On Ganondorf, seeing that Diddy kong and Jinzo talked about him.
The main reason people want him changed is because they are zelda fans and he fight so unlike his games. In zelda he uses sword/magic and some brute strength while in smash he uses exclusively brute strength supported by magic and no sword. He's probably has the most out of character moveset for someone with an pre-existing fighting style and moveset potential. While I find his playstyle fun I also dislike how little he's based on his games. Seriously you don't even need a full redesign, only a few changes like PIt & Bowser had in Smash 4 would help tremendously. some of my Ideas for changes are:

• Warlock Punch need to go, replace with either an electric orb projectile (his most iconic attack) or at least Warlock Blade (the sword custom).
• Uses cape on F-air and/or B-air, still similar moves but with reflective properties. This is to give him some way to deal with projectiles and is based on his OoT fight.
  
• Make side smash a two part move, being able to follow up the current elbow thrust with a sword. Based on his TP fight.
  
• Do something about his recovery, as a character that normaly can do stuff like floating and teleporting he shouldn't have this bad recovery. if it's change to his u-special, air speed or jump height i'm not sure, but he needs something.

Seriously, just these changes I think would go a long way for the zelda-Ganondorf fans, while not ruining him for smash-Ganondorf fans.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

On Ganondorf, seeing that Diddy kong and Jinzo talked about him.
The main reason people want him changed is because they are zelda fans and he fight so unlike his games. In zelda he uses sword/magic and some brute strength while in smash he uses exclusively brute strength supported by magic and no sword.

That hardly seems like much of a deviation. Seems the only thing missing is his sword. And we all know how awesome SWWWWWWOOOOOOORDS are!

He's probably has the most out of character moveset for someone with an pre-existing fighting style and moveset potential. While I find his playstyle fun I also dislike how little he's based on his games. Seriously you don't even need a full redesign, only a few changes like PIt & Bowser had in Smash 4 would help tremendously. some of my Ideas for changes are:

• Warlock Punch need to go, replace with either an electric orb projectile (his most iconic attack) or at least Warlock Blade (the sword custom).
• Uses cape on F-air and/or B-air, still similar moves but with reflective properties. This is to give him some way to deal with projectiles and is based on his OoT fight.
  
• Make side smash a two part move, being able to follow up the current elbow thrust with a sword. Based on his TP fight.
  
• Do something about his recovery, as a character that normaly can do stuff like floating and teleporting he shouldn't have this bad recovery. if it's change to his u-special, air speed or jump height i'm not sure, but he needs something.

Seriously, just these changes I think would go a long way for the zelda-Ganondorf fans, while not ruining him for smash-Ganondorf fans.

Well, I agree with the floating and teleporting especially when Ganondorf has such **** recovery to begin with. But, make the orb thing like a tilt attack. Replacing a strong as **** punch with him throwing a little orb is a little bit of a downgrade. And I mean how impressive, right? He throws a little orb?

You know, actually you might have changed my mind. As long as Ganondorf retains his original attacks, but gets new specials like being able to float and teleport, that would be cool. Maybe he could slam his fist into the ground creating like a small shockwave around him. But, I still like how he grabs on to people and electrocutes them. Maybe they could keep that, but if he doesn't grab anybody, he floats instead.

Or if he did that thing Metal Sonic does in 1:04 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxqQCkoF7dA. I wanna see that! Make it happen in Smash 4, Soccereye!

 

[Sharkarat]

That hardly seems like much of a deviation. Seems the only thing missing is his sword. And we all know how awesome SWWWWWWOOOOOOORDS are!

The big difference is In Zelda he uses magic for and in a keep away style, unlike smash where the magic feels more like an added effects for physical attacks. But adding too much in that direction would completely change how he played in smash. And it's not like I want to fill the moveset with sword, only a few moves (Neutral special if it isn't a projectile, on side smash and maybe one or two more moves).

Well, I agree with the floating and teleporting especially when Ganondorf has such **** recovery to begin with. But, make the orb thing like a tilt attack. Replacing a strong as **** punch with him throwing a little orb is a little bit of a downgrade. And I mean how impressive, right? He throws a little orb?

It wouldn't be a little orb, more of a medium sized one. with his grounded startup animation for it not being too unlike the punch, but with electric energy and him throwing it instead of using it for a punch. It wouldn't be a light projectile it would look like it got weight behind it, seriously with a startup like this, it's not gonna look weak. And still then I would rather have the sword than punch as the standard version for feeling more in character and increased range.
Of the non-special I would like the Jab having a small follow up move inspired by this part of the bridge scene from OoT, but that's more a fun minor idea.

You know, actually you might have changed my mind. As long as Ganondorf retains his original attacks, but gets new specials like being able to float and teleport, that would be cool. Maybe he could slam his fist into the ground creating like a small shockwave around him. But, I still like how he grabs on to people and electrocutes them. Maybe they could keep that, but if he doesn't grab anybody, he floats instead.

Yeah Iike his electrocuting too, but that moves need some serious fixing from a playability standpoint. And it's almost annoying in how how close his aerial Down special is to his OoT Ground Punch in everything except animation.

Or if he did that thing Metal Sonic does in 1:04 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxqQCkoF7dA. I wanna see that! Make it happen in Smash 4, Soccereye!

yeah that's kinda in direction i Imagined the projectile, charging and throwing electric energy.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Sharkarat : My roster has Ganondorf and Samurai Goroh. In my roster, Samurai Goroh is to Captain Falcon what Wolf is to Fox. Goroh has specials that are loosely based on Captain Falcon. But, his raptor boost is instead a katana boost.

Like Wolf, the rest of Goroh's move set is unique. It is a mixture of body strength attacks, and katana attacks.

I feel this is a great way to represent Goroh in Smash. He is racer like Captain Falcon who combines his muscular strength with his ability to use a sword.

If Ganondorf was rehauled, getting his own specials, I feel this would work out quite well. We'd have a character more worthy of being Falcon's slower more powerful semi-clone, and Ganondorf would become like a new character. But, in addition, Samurai Goroh himself is also more unique than Ganondorf originally was.

Also, because Goroh's vehicle is The Stingray, it would make sense for him to have electric attacks like Ganondorf.

And maybe Goroh's sword could be redesinged to look more like a stingray tail, and have fiery/electric currents throughout it.

I have some other changes I'd like to see too.

• Mario has the galaxy spin attack. Luigi & Dr. Mario have normal spin attacks.
• Fire Mario is Mario's Final Smash. Mario's moves become fiery and more powerful and if B is charged, Mario unleashes Mario Finale. Fire Mario's color scheme is red & orange instead of red & white. This way he retains his Fire Mario palette swap.
• Wario's dash attack is the shoulder ram from Wario Land.
• Ganondorf is rehauled. Has the ability to teleport, levitate, and use powerful magic projectiles. He still retains his original non-special attacks.
• Dr. Mario has unique Final Smash
• Lucina has unique Final Smash
• Sonic's side special is Light Speed Dash
• Critical hits cause Sonic to lose rings
• Ness has unique PSI customes. PK Beam being a custom for PK Fire.
• Pac-Man's down special is ghost sheild. Ghosts rotate around Pac-Man like shells in Mario Kart. They can be released and will act as they do in game.
• Cloud has English voice actor

 

[Spurdo]

I don't see any reason to care about Ganondorf anymore. The problem here is that he's old, he was introduced two games ago, he's not a big deal anymore. I think Sakurai and the Smash team would much rather work on exciting new characters rather than completely changing some old character.

this is why we need pig ganon guys

 

[Sharkarat]

TheLastJinjo Yeah, thats also a thing about current Ganondorf. He currently potential overlaps with F-zero characters both Samurai Goroh (Sword & electricity) and Black Shadow (Darkness), making them boring adding from moveset perspective. It's something awkward about being a semi-clone of someone from a different series. So Ganondorf weirdly enough hurts the chances of getting a second F-zero character.

But like Spurdo says at we don't think they're gonna change him, and that's one of the reasons for wanting pig Ganon. He's pretty much guaranteed to get a true Ganon moveset.

Also agree on Wario

 

[TheLastJinjo]

TheLastJinjo Yeah, thats also a thing about current Ganondorf. He currently potential overlaps with F-zero characters both Samurai Goroh (Sword & electricity) and Black Shadow (Darkness), making them boring adding from moveset perspective. It's something awkward about being a semi-clone of someone from a different series. So Ganondorf weirdly enough hurts the chances of getting a second F-zero character.

But like Spurdo says at we don't think they're gonna change him, and that's one of the reasons for wanting pig Ganon. He's pretty much guaranteed to get a true Ganon moveset.

Also agree on Wario

Well, it may seem weird that Ganondorf is a clone of Falcon, but Falcon's moves are from Dragon King The Fighting Game. They are generic moves. What WOULD be weird is if Falcons moves were actually from F-Zero, but then Ganondorf had those moves too.

But like Spurdo says at we don't think they're gonna change him, and that's one of the reasons for wanting pig Ganon. He's pretty much guaranteed to get a true Ganon moveset.

Why are we all SO much more concerned with moves than actual characters? Like maybe Ganondorf is a better pick. Maybe more people wanna play as Ganondorf.

He's definitely a better pick considering he is what is considered the true form even if Ganon appears more. Ganon is his beast form. And Ganondorf is definitely more suited for a Super Smash Bros. game than Ganon is.

 

[Spurdo]

And Ganondorf is definitely more suited for a Super Smash Bros. game than Ganon is.

what does this mean?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I also made an "unlockable" roster for the fun of it. I was disappointed with how unlockable characters were handled in Smash 4. Same Roster though.

Spoiler: Hidden Characters

Veterans

• Luigi
• Dr. Mario
• Jigglypuff
• Mewtwo
• Lucario
• Sheik
• Ganondorf
• Toon Link
• Zero Suit Samus
• Meta Knight
• Falco
• Wolf
• Lucas
• Roy
• Mr. Game & Watch
• R.O.B.

Newcomers

• Bowser Jr.
• Rosalina & Luma
• Paper Mario
• Waluigi
• Toon Zelda
• Decidueye
• Corrin
• Elma
• Samurai Goroh
• Louie
• Rhythm Heaven Troupe
• Raichu
• Dark Pit
• Lucina
• Duck Hunt
• Pauline
• Ryu
• Cloud
• Bayonetta
• Shadow The Hedgehog

 

[Spurdo]

• Shadow The Hedgehog

I do not understand this meme

• Pauline
• Elma
• Louie
• Pauline

and these memes are also hard to understand as well

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If you're going to reply, bother to be constructive when doing so. Nonsensical stuff that either trolls or adds nothing of use will get you Warnings and Infractions for being spam or trolling.

We do expect some quality when you post, and I'm not talking about grammar/spelling/capitalization either. That's not really necessary(but do be prepared to clarify your position and simply apologize for the misunderstanding in general. No need to fight over nothing).

As usual, do not reply to this message. Not even through PM's this time. There is nothing arguable about this at all. You can however visit Forum Support if you want to.

 

[SGA|Joshua]

I feel like everyone from Smash 4 will make it into smash 5 along with these characters.
1. Inkling
2. Geno
3. Issac
4. Shantae
5. Shovel Knight
6. Wolf
7. Paper Mario
8. Toad/Captain Toad
9. King K Rool

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I feel like everyone from Smash 4 will make it into smash 5 along with these characters.
1. Inkling
2. Geno
3. Issac
4. Shantae
5. Shovel Knight
6. Wolf
7. Paper Mario
8. Toad/Captain Toad
9. King K Rool

*pews into thread*

Heya and welcome to SmashBoards and let me just say that that's a pretty swell list you got there, though I feel Shantae and Shovel Knight were just ballot-based bandwagons instead of having legitimate chances.
Even Shovel Knight's surge of Nintendo ads have just stopped, probably after they realised he was only hyped up because of Smash.

I feel that if there's gonna be a "blatant advertisement third party", it's gonna be Japan's absolute pop culture rage Jibanyan, who I feel has just enough star power in the West to justify a Smash Bros. inclusion based on his Japanese popularity alone

Also lolgeno lolsakurai

*pews out of thread*

 

[Opossum]

*pews into thread*

Heya and welcome to SmashBoards and let me just say that that's a pretty swell list you got there, though I feel Shantae and Shovel Knight were just ballot-based bandwagons instead of having legitimate chances.
Even Shovel Knight's surge of Nintendo ads have just stopped, probably after they realised he was only hyped up because of Smash.

I feel that if there's gonna be a "blatant advertisement third party", it's gonna be Japan's absolute pop culture rage Jibanyan, who I feel has just enough star power in the West to justify a Smash Bros. inclusion based on his Japanese popularity alone

Also lolgeno lolsakurai

*pews out of thread*

I think you're seriously underestimating Shovel Knight's appeal. His popularity was far from being just Smash hype. It's just a REALLY popular game.

I do think he has legitimate chances of getting in next time, especially after his game did as well as it did in Japan. Shantae not so much, but Shovel Knight? I do think he's a legitimate third party contender (that, IMO, there's not many left of).

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think you're seriously underestimating Shovel Knight's appeal. His popularity was far from being just Smash hype. It's just a REALLY popular game.

I do think he has legitimate chances of getting in next time, especially after his game did as well as it did in Japan. Shantae not so much, but Shovel Knight? I do think he's a legitimate third party contender (that, IMO, there's not many left of).

Yeah but even then his prime-time was the ballot and the Nintendo advertising that went with that.

 

[Opossum]

Yeah but even then his prime-time was the ballot and the Nintendo advertising that went with that.

He also didn't have an international release at that point. It was by coincidence his amiibo release (the thing Nintendo pushed) coincided with the Smash Ballot.


A bold prediction, but I think Shovel Knight is the most likely third party newcomer at this point. He's got a ton of things in his favor. If anything his strong ballot support back then is a blessing; Sakurai will definitely look back at the ballot, and he'll see how popular he was before even having his Nintendo-published Japanese release.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Shovel Knight was one of the most advertised and popular Indie characters/games of all time. It wasn't just hype. Japan didn't get the game yet, which is why he wasn't as known, but he's a major contender for a later Smash game now. He's still vastly popular to this day. He really stood out from other Indies in general. Shantae has nothing on him at this point.

Also, Ice Climbers should really be put on that list up above.

 

[Geno Boost]

Am I the only one who think that Red is very likely to be the next Pokemon rep and not a gen 7 Pokemon?
I love decidueye but he isn't important as Red in Pokemon history and clearly people were hyped more about Red ruterning that the reveal of Decidueye when I saw the reaction videos.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

He also didn't have an international release at that point. It was by coincidence his amiibo release (the thing Nintendo pushed) coincided with the Smash Ballot.


A bold prediction, but I think Shovel Knight is the most likely third party newcomer at this point. He's got a ton of things in his favor. If anything his strong ballot support back then is a blessing; Sakurai will definitely look back at the ballot, and he'll see how popular he was before even having his Nintendo-published Japanese release.

On the other hand, Yokai-Watch's release in the West makes Jibanyan my top pick for a third party

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Am I the only one who think that Red is very likely to be the next Pokemon rep and not a gen 7 Pokemon?
I love decidueye but he isn't important as Red in Pokemon history and clearly people were hyped more about Red ruterning that the reveal of Decidueye when I saw the reaction videos.

I don't think he's coming back any time soon, whether he stays as a generic Trainer like in Brawl or becomes the actual proper Red. The only reason he was given a slot was for the three-character mechanic. That mechanic has been dropped entirely due to both balance reasons and the 3DS' own issues. At best we're getting another Gen VII Pokemon or possibly no Pokemon rep at all for the port(mostly because Sun and Moon are super recent, and if Pokemon Stars is real, that'd be the perfect time to promote it). Also, I think Mimikyu is the most likely one now, since it's the most pushed in Japan, as well as actually pretty popular too. He's not like the other Pika-clones, being he's not even a literal Pika-clone, but a unique Ghost Pokemon that wants to be popular, so has a disguise based upon the most popular Pokemon.

 

[Geno Boost]

I don't think he's coming back any time soon, whether he stays as a generic Trainer like in Brawl or becomes the actual proper Red. The only reason he was given a slot was for the three-character mechanic. That mechanic has been dropped entirely due to both balance reasons and the 3DS' own issues. At best we're getting another Gen VII Pokemon or possibly no Pokemon rep at all for the port(mostly because Sun and Moon are super recent, and if Pokemon Stars is real, that'd be the perfect time to promote it). Also, I think Mimikyu is the most likely one now, since it's the most pushed in Japan, as well as actually pretty popular too. He's not like the other Pika-clones, being he's not even a literal Pika-clone, but a unique Ghost Pokemon that wants to be popular, so has a disguise based upon the most popular Pokemon.

Well I am talking about actual proper red with bicycle and fishing rod and other stuff but I am sure sakurai is unpredictable person and he likes to give us something unexpected from what most smash fans thinks.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Well I am talking about actual proper red with bicycle and fishing rod and other stuff but I am sure sakurai is unpredictable person and he likes to give us something unexpected from what most smash fans thinks.

There is a difference between "doing the unexpected" and just saying "**** it" and pulling a random name out of a hat.

That is pretty much what making Red playable would be since he really doesn't have anything else going for him.

 

[Opossum]

Am I the only one who think that Red is very likely to be the next Pokemon rep and not a gen 7 Pokemon?
I love decidueye but he isn't important as Red in Pokemon history and clearly people were hyped more about Red ruterning that the reveal of Decidueye when I saw the reaction videos.

The way I look at it is this. With Pokémon, the main draw for most folks are the Pokémon themselves. They're what the gameplay centers around. The human characters can be great (Looker, N, Lillie, Oak, even Red himself) and are one of my favorite aspects of he franchise personally, but they are hardly the stars of the show, so to speak. They just don't offer as much, especially since a lot of the stuff people suggest for a playable trainer is starting to be phased out of the games (Safari Zone mechanics being gone, Ride Pager replacing most HMs and Key Items, fishing being downsized, no more bike, etc).

Another thing to think about is audience differences. Pokémon fans would, naturally, be very hyped to see Red in Sun and Moon's trailers as a battle-able trainer. Red's fight in the Johto games is one of those great Pokémon moments. But the GA and Smash audience are more than likely to be confused or angry that a seemingly normal person got in over a Pokémon, especially something like an archer owl or wrestler cat.

 

[Sharkarat]

I think people often overstate how unpredictable sakurai is, and the prediction misses are just as much about who doesn't got in rather than who got.
For example, smash 4 newcomers and some common prediction on smashboards mixed with some personal opinions. Please correct me if i'm remembering stuff wrong here.

Spoiler

• Little Mac, Shulk, Villager and Mega man was all very predictable.
  
• Bowser Jr. was probably one of most predictable mario addition. Rosalina was on the other hand one of the bigger prediction misses with, with a lot uncertainty if her then rising importance in mario series was enough at the time. Also people didn't think we would get two Mario characters. And many pushed her and Jr. to the side because they want Toad and/or Waluigi
• Palutena was overall seen as a safe predictions.
• Dark Pit: Got in the only way I personally thought he could get in. Low effort Clone. But in general based what we know about smash development clones don't seems to be part of the original planned roster and end up having different criterias for inclusion than other characters. In Smash 4 it was characters planned as costumes in melee it was sharing body types. So while guessin what characters could be clones isn't hard, guessing the specific ones getting in on the other hand.
• Greninja: People were uncertain if he was too recent. Sakurai actually decided on him before the XY release pretty much predicting his popularity, so we wasn't even that far off.
  
• Charizard: Mostly kept in predictions even when the rest of pokemon trainer was cut.
  
• Robin: Wasn't unexpected. What was all over the place is where Lucina and Chrom were.
  
• Mii was somewhat expected even if many dislike them. What wasn't often predicted was their moveset(s), cause the more common idea was them getting a Sport, Wii fit, Pilotwings Moveset.
• Wii Fit Trainer Was by far the most unexpected character for multiple reasons
  1. People thinking wii fit would be part Mii's Moveset
  2. People on smashboards haven't played Wii fit, therefore thinking Mii is the only potential canditate from it. Seriously no one ever mentioned her so we didn't know she was a character.
  3. Similarly to Mii, just disliking the idea of Wii Fit getting a character. But it's mostly the second reason.
  
• Duck Hunt wasn't completely unexpected, a retro character was kinda expected but people was unsure if Little mac counted as one. I think Duck Hunt was one of the more common retro picks and any retro other than him or Takamaru would been a real surprise.
  
• Pretty Much all 3rd party are Super Popular and/or Video Game Icons. Bayonetta might not be as big as the other ones, but got in by the ballot so she have pretty high popularity.
  
• K. Rool & Dixie are example of popular characters not added. People aren't particulary optimistic on DK getting a newcomers in Smash 5 because of this, Sakurai just doesn't seems to care that much for the series.

My opinion is that people really play up the idea that Sakurai does the unexpected when it come to his choices. Even stuff like Wii fit trainer was really obvious in hindsight. Rhytm heaven character is the kind of "unexpected" choice he would makes, not Red with Bicycle. He's not gonna add Red making a weird moveset, when he can add Ghost-Plant Bird Archer whose moveset writes itself.

 

[A Distant Demon]

EDIT misread the post

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Holy Kanoli. There sure is a lot of disussion when I'm not around.

I don't think he's coming back any time soon, whether he stays as a generic Trainer like in Brawl or becomes the actual proper Red. The only reason he was given a slot was for the three-character mechanic. That mechanic has been dropped entirely due to both balance reasons and the 3DS' own issues. At best we're getting another Gen VII Pokemon or possibly no Pokemon rep at all for the port(mostly because Sun and Moon are super recent, and if Pokemon Stars is real, that'd be the perfect time to promote it). Also, I think Mimikyu is the most likely one now, since it's the most pushed in Japan, as well as actually pretty popular too. He's not like the other Pika-clones, being he's not even a literal Pika-clone, but a unique Ghost Pokemon that wants to be popular, so has a disguise based upon the most popular Pokemon.

Eeh. I do not see how Mimikyu would even be considered for Smash. Especially over Decidueye.

I mean Decidueye has become increasingly popular since his reveal, and the fact that he's as starter makes him a much safer bet when it comes to Pokemon that most fans and non-fans would recognize. It kind of makes him like a main character almost. He's also a Grass Type Pokemon which fits in well considering we have a Fire & Water starter.

Overall, Decidueye's design, popularity, notoriety, and potential overshadows that of Mimikyu who is not even fit for the fighting style of Super Smash Bros.

Mimikyu is not even a possibility even if everyone wanted him.

I think people often overstate how unpredictable sakurai is, and the prediction misses are just as much about who doesn't got in rather than who got.
For example, smash 4 newcomers and some common prediction on smashboards mixed with some personal opinions. Please correct me if i'm remembering stuff wrong here.

Spoiler

• Little Mac, Shulk, Villager and Mega man was all very predictable.
  
• Bowser Jr. was probably one of most predictable mario addition. Rosalina was on the other hand one of the bigger prediction misses with, with a lot uncertainty if her then rising importance in mario series was enough at the time. Also people didn't think we would get two Mario characters. And many pushed her and Jr. to the side because they want Toad and/or Waluigi
• Palutena was overall seen as a safe predictions.
• Dark Pit: Got in the only way I personally thought he could get in. Low effort Clone. But in general based what we know about smash development clones don't seems to be part of the original planned roster and end up having different criterias for inclusion than other characters. In Smash 4 it was characters planned as costumes in melee it was sharing body types. So while guessin what characters could be clones isn't hard, guessing the specific ones getting in on the other hand.
• Greninja: People were uncertain if he was too recent. Sakurai actually decided on him before the XY release pretty much predicting his popularity, so we wasn't even that far off.
  
• Charizard: Mostly kept in predictions even when the rest of pokemon trainer was cut.
  
• Robin: Wasn't unexpected. What was all over the place is where Lucina and Chrom were.
  
• Mii was somewhat expected even if many dislike them. What wasn't often predicted was their moveset(s), cause the more common idea was them getting a Sport, Wii fit, Pilotwings Moveset.
• Wii Fit Trainer Was by far the most unexpected character for multiple reasons
  1. People thinking wii fit would be part Mii's Moveset
  2. People on smashboards haven't played Wii fit, therefore thinking Mii is the only potential canditate from it. Seriously no one ever mentioned her so we didn't know she was a character.
  3. Similarly to Mii, just disliking the idea of Wii Fit getting a character. But it's mostly the second reason.
  
• Duck Hunt wasn't completely unexpected, a retro character was kinda expected but people was unsure if Little mac counted as one. I think Duck Hunt was one of the more common retro picks and any retro other than him or Takamaru would been a real surprise.
  
• Pretty Much all 3rd party are Super Popular and/or Video Game Icons. Bayonetta might not be as big as the other ones, but got in by the ballot so she have pretty high popularity.
  
• K. Rool & Dixie are example of popular characters not added. People aren't particulary optimistic on DK getting a newcomers in Smash 5 because of this, Sakurai just doesn't seems to care that much for the series.

My opinion is that people really play up the idea that Sakurai does the unexpected when it come to his choices. Even stuff like Wii fit trainer was really obvious in hindsight. Rhytm heaven character is the kind of "unexpected" choice he would makes, not Red with Bicycle. He's not gonna add Red making a weird moveset, when he can add Ghost-Plant Bird Archer whose moveset writes itself.

To correct you, many people were expecting Robin to make the cut. I was one of them.

Well I am talking about actual proper red with bicycle and fishing rod and other stuff but I am sure sakurai is unpredictable person and he likes to give us something unexpected from what most smash fans thinks.

Being unpredictable isn't the same as, like Zebei said, pulling a name out of hat and going

"Oh, Red! Ah! It's fine don't' worry about it! Give him a bike and a fishing rod!"

There's 600+ Pokemon waiting to get in to Smash with support from the fans. Sakurai's not going to add a TRAINER.

 

[Geno Boost]

There is a difference between "doing the unexpected" and just saying "**** it" and pulling a random name out of a hat.

That is pretty much what making Red playable would be since he really doesn't have anything else going for him.

There is a lot of things he can do just be creative like villagers moveset there is more than 100 items that be used for his moveset and red isn't a random choice.

They just don't offer as much, especially since a lot of the stuff people suggest for a playable trainer is starting to be phased out of the games (Safari Zone mechanics being gone, Ride Pager replacing most HMs and Key Items, fishing being downsized, no more bike, etc).

Another thing to think about is audience differences. Pokémon fans would, naturally, be very hyped to see Red in Sun and Moon's trailers as a battle-able trainer. Red's fight in the Johto games is one of those great Pokémon moments. But the GA and Smash audience are more than likely to be confused or angry that a seemingly normal person got in over a Pokémon, especially something like an archer owl or wrestler cat.

Ok you say that a lot of things are gone but that wouldn't be a problem in a non canon game and even if they are gone there is more than 100 items that can be used for a moveset.

I can't see people really being dissapointed if he got in smash he has a huge fanbase around and something new and creative for another Pokemon rep plus there is already 6 pokemons playable in smash just like your party in Pokemon games so it would make sense for a trainer to come in next.

Being unpredictable isn't the same as, like Zebei said, pulling a name out of hat and going

"Oh, Red! Ah! It's fine don't' worry about it! Give him a bike and a fishing rod!"

There's 600+ Pokemon waiting to get in to Smash with support from the fans. Sakurai's not going to add a TRAINER.

Bicycle and fishing rod was just an example and not everything that can be used for a moveset.

Pokemon monsters aren't really the only thing that people are supporting for smash I saw supporters of trainers as well, You can't confirm that sakurai is never gonna add it, a lot of smash fanbase say "it will never ever happen" to a lot of characters but they ended up being wrong in the future.

 

[Opossum]

There is a lot of things he can do just be creative like villagers moveset there is more than 100 items that be used for his moveset and red isn't a random choice.

Ok you say that a lot of things are gone but that wouldn't be a problem in a non canon game and even if they are gone there is more than 100 items that can be used for a moveset.

I can't see people really being dissapointed if he got in smash he has a huge fanbase around and something new and creative for another Pokemon rep plus there is already 6 pokemons playable in smash just like your party in Pokemon games so it would make sense for a trainer to come in next.

Bicycle and fishing rod was just an example and not everything that can be used for a moveset.

Pokemon monsters aren't really the only thing that people are supporting for smash I saw supporters of trainers as well, You can't confirm that sakurai is never gonna add it, a lot of smash fanbase say "it will never ever happen" to a lot of characters but they ended up being wrong in the future.

It doesn't matter that "Smash is non-canon." That doesn't mean it's an anything goes free for all.

The Pokémon Company and GameFreak have a huge say in what Pokémon get into Smash. The fact that they're moving away from those sorts of things in the series makes it less likely they'd want a character capitalizing on those things in Smash. Not to mention it could lead to brand misrepresentation issues since it'd mean humans from the Pokémon world would be fighting the creatures they are supposed to be partners with in combat. Odds are GameFreak/TPCI would NEVER allow that.

The trainers have, honestly, nothing going for them. The entire draw is the Pokémon themselves. Yeah, I even mentioned characters like Red are popular. But not every popular character works and are warranted in Smash.

 

[N3ON]

I think the only trainer that could get away with being playable is Red, and if that were to somehow happen, I'd imagine his moveset would revolve completely around summing his Pokemon for specific moves and whatnot. Sort of but not really like Olimar. It'd be an interesting moveset. Though it'd be super redundant given his two most iconic Pokemon have roster slots of their own.

But I don't imagine GF, the fans, or Sakurai being particularly invested in that.

Though if we ever got a Nintendo vs. Capcom deal I think that'd be an interesting way of compacting some of the most well-known Pokemon into a single character.

 

[Baskerville]

Though if we ever got a Nintendo vs. Capcom deal I think that'd be an interesting way of compacting some of the most well-known Pokemon into a single character.

So a Captain Commando like character where Pokemon come in as an assist via a special move? I can see that working.

 

[Geno Boost]

It doesn't matter that "Smash is non-canon." That doesn't mean it's an anything goes free for all.

The Pokémon Company and GameFreak have a huge say in what Pokémon get into Smash. The fact that they're moving away from those sorts of things in the series makes it less likely they'd want a character capitalizing on those things in Smash. Not to mention it could lead to brand misrepresentation issues since it'd mean humans from the Pokémon world would be fighting the creatures they are supposed to be partners with in combat. Odds are GameFreak/TPCI would NEVER allow that.

The trainers have, honestly, nothing going for them. The entire draw is the Pokémon themselves. Yeah, I even mentioned characters like Red are popular. But not every popular character works and are warranted in Smash.

How do you know that game freak are the one who decide and not Sakurai? Also if nintendo is ok with peach fighting Mario and link fighting zelda then I see no problem and even in Pokemon series team rocket did kill cubone mother so that's not the first time they are doing something like this, Pokemon series has dark sides too and people do play smash for fun and not because "this guy shouldn't beat the other guy because they friends or whatever".

 

[Opossum]

How do you know that game freak are the one who decide and not Sakurai? Also if nintendo is ok with peach fighting Mario and link fighting zelda then I see no problem and even in Pokemon series team rocket did kill cubone mother so that's not the first time they are doing something like this, Pokemon series has dark sides too and people do play smash for fun and not because "this guy shouldn't beat the other guy because they friends or whatever".

GameFreak (rather, likely TPCI in this case) has a ton of say in how Pokémon is represented as a franchise in Smash. Sakurai has mentioned that several times.

TPCI is notoriously protective of the Pokémon IP. Just look at how little it got in Super Mario Maker and how little function the Pokémon amiibo have if you need more proof. If you need proof of this in Smash, look at Pikachu's color swap options. Like Bandai-Namco with Pac-Man and Sega with Sonic, none of Pikachu's alternate colors stray too far from its yellow color scheme. This is blatant trademark/copyright protection, showing just how protective they are of the IP. Sakurai obviously didn't get permission to alter Pikachu too much, so he resorted to hats to differentiate them.

Team Rocket and evil Pokémon teams in general are just that...bad guys. Most aren't even subtle. The game makes it very clear that humans abusing Pokémon is wrong and the interspecies partnership is one of the core aspects of the franchise. As such, there's no way in hell they'd allow Sakurai to take Red, one of the characters you play as, and allow the player to use Red to beat up Pikachu in a fighting game. It goes against everything the brand stands for and dilutes it, which is incredibly dangerous in the eyes of those who are overly protective of trademarks and copyright (like TPCI).

With that in mind it's pretty clear Sakurai would never get the clearance to have a Pokémon Trainer be playable without them using Pokémon to fight,

 

[Ura]

Funny that you guys bring up trainers as a potential Smash character because i've come across tons of Smash rosters that have Green/Blue, Misty, Sabrina, Giovanni, among other human trainers playable.

Though there is credence to the fact that people would be annoyed with non-PKMN being represented in the game. Personally i'd love to see Red, Green, or whoever but I doubt that would actually happen.

 

[Geno Boost]

GameFreak (rather, likely TPCI in this case) has a ton of say in how Pokémon is represented as a franchise in Smash. Sakurai has mentioned that several times.

TPCI is notoriously protective of the Pokémon IP. Just look at how little it got in Super Mario Maker and how little function the Pokémon amiibo have if you need more proof. If you need proof of this in Smash, look at Pikachu's color swap options. Like Bandai-Namco with Pac-Man and Sega with Sonic, none of Pikachu's alternate colors stray too far from its yellow color scheme. This is blatant trademark/copyright protection, showing just how protective they are of the IP. Sakurai obviously didn't get permission to alter Pikachu too much, so he resorted to hats to differentiate them.

Team Rocket and evil Pokémon teams in general are just that...bad guys. Most aren't even subtle. The game makes it very clear that humans abusing Pokémon is wrong and the interspecies partnership is one of the core aspects of the franchise. As such, there's no way in hell they'd allow Sakurai to take Red, one of the characters you play as, and allow the player to use Red to beat up Pikachu in a fighting game. It goes against everything the brand stands for and dilutes it, which is incredibly dangerous in the eyes of those who are overly protective of trademarks and copyright (like TPCI).

With that in mind it's pretty clear Sakurai would never get the clearance to have a Pokémon Trainer be playable without them using Pokémon to fight,

oh i see now but however its still possible to happen as long as we didnt hear anything bad from Sakurai about a pokemon trainer in article yet so nothing has confirmed yet to say its impossible to happen.
i am sure getting him in would be easier than getting Cloud in smash

 

[wedl!!]

So a Captain Commando like character where Pokemon come in as an assist via a special move? I can see that working.

I think it'd be like Ryu in old Vs. games. In them, Ryu can transform into different shotos with a super. Ergo, they could reuse that sort of concept for Pokemon swapping.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

How do you know that game freak are the one who decide and not Sakurai?

as long as we didnt hear anything bad from Sakurai about a pokemon trainer in article yet so nothing has confirmed yet to say its impossible to happen.

What's with all these unfalsifiable arguments? They do nothing to suggest that your proposition holds any water. All you're saying is "Well it could happen! Mario beats up Peach and I didn't hear Sakurai come out against my proposition so anything I say could happen."

Also just because Mario beats up his friends doesn't mean there's not a line in the sand. Like I'm pretty sure if Baby Mario or Nintendog were suggested as playable characters there would be SERIOUS controversy surrounding the fact that you beat the ever loving crap out of a baby and a real-life, non cartoon, dog.

You can't just say "Well this weird thing happens, so there's no rules."

 

[Deleted member]

I think the only trainer that could get away with being playable is Red, and if that were to somehow happen, I'd imagine his moveset would revolve completely around summing his Pokemon for specific moves and whatnot. Sort of but not really like Olimar. It'd be an interesting moveset. Though it'd be super redundant given his two most iconic Pokemon have roster slots of their own.

But I don't imagine GF, the fans, or Sakurai being particularly invested in that.

Though if we ever got a Nintendo vs. Capcom deal I think that'd be an interesting way of compacting some of the most well-known Pokemon into a single character.

Cynthia would be kind of interesting for something like that in place of Red.
Granted, she's not a player character, but Cynthia is very popular and makes a lot of appearances in the series.
And only one of her seven main team members (as in, none of the one-timers like Gastrodon, Braviary, and Elektross) has its own roster slot. She could use a full team of six without Lucario.

 

[Opossum]

Cynthia would be kind of interesting for something like that in place of Red.
Granted, she's not a player character, but Cynthia is very popular and makes a lot of appearances in the series.
And only one of her seven main team members (as in, none of the one-timers like Gastrodon, Braviary, and Elektross) has its own roster slot. She could use a full team of six without Lucario.

I totally wouldn't mind Garchomp in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

I totally wouldn't mind Garchomp in Smash.

Well, in the case of what I said, it would be Cynthia who could summon Garchomp (among her other Pokémon) for moves.
Not Garchomp itself.