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It's all good.
This opened my eyes, but I'm not sure to what. How is this is an eye opener?
I think that's what he meant "by not currently in the game". He does show up in gameplay in a Final Smash, so technically could fit under what he meant.> TFW Chrom can't even make the reject roster.
Some just kind of feel random compared to others. Are they supposed to be rejects for the series as a whole or just Smash 4? Shantae was never an actual rumor(Tails was a rumor as an Assist Trophy, but that was it), where the rest were at least talked about by Sakurai at some point or part of rumors.
But yeah, I don't get the philosophy behind these choices. Some I know were actually rejected(whether rumor or fact) for Smash, but beyond that, they just feel completely random. That said, where's Inklings? Or Plusle & Minun(from the Brawl files, this is the only character we could figure might be what was meant in the Pra_Mai part, as Random didn't seem realistic, and nothing else fit. It's the only one among those files not all that clear. The rest were pretty blatant what character was meant, even if it's made up for Smash, akin to how Giga Bowser is).
>Snake in the rejects
Nah, it's just when you said the word Rejects, it wasn't that clear.. Reject has a pretty clear meaning, that's all.
Just did a edit.
- DAir is the ground pound, while the Tornado is now his NAir. He also has a new FS, in which he summons one of the Odyssey bosses and possesses them with Cappy. - I'd keep him the same as before but w/ more power. - Just change that god awful FS already. I don't care what to, just change it. Daisy also appears as an alt. - Dry Bowser alt. - Egg throw remapped to Neutral (W/ the abillity to aim), Egg lay as Side and Up B is now Egg Jump (Use your imagination on this one.)) - Pls nerf. And I'd make her less confusing because I still can't figure out how to use her properly.) - Unchanged. - Shoulder Bash as Forward Smash again. - , SS, and BoTW alts. - Same as above basically - More Sword use in his animations (i.e. Warlock Punch is now Warlock Blade), and he has Dark Fists and Wizard's dropkick as default moves (Custom moves are cut), also new FS. and Toon Ganondorf appear as alts.) - He needs more Wind Waker references in his moveset. IDK much about the game but I'd at least change his Up B to the Deku Leaf and give him a new FS.) - New Final Smash. SS Impa alt - UTilt is now the Melee Counter. She's more similar to her PM incarnations, which was actually fun to use.) - Justin Bailey appears as an alt. - Unchanged. - I'd make him less annoying to fight against. - FS is now Hypernova (From Triple Deluxe) - 1. Reduce his falling speed. His current one makes no sense in the context of his character. 2. Masked Dedede >>>>>>>>>>>> Big gay dance >>>> His current FS which is just boring. Also Shadow Dedede appears as one of his palette swaps (Akin to Dark Link)) - FS is now Halberd (Maybe), and he has a Dark Meta Knight palette swap, as well as a fully fledged Galacta Knight alt. - FS is now PSI Rockin (An offensive PSI that Ness actually uses). Ninten appears as an alt.) - Unchanged. - Final Smash is now Gigavolt Havoc (Because you can't just have chicken-chan appear out of nowhere and throw him like in Pika's exclusive Z move)) - Unchanged. - I'd remove his ****ty counter for Bone Rush. Like seriously, it's one of the worst counters in the game. - I'd make him less... Ugh. - Ash Greninja is now his Final Smash.) - Maybe change Rollout into Disarming Voice. And bring back Melee Puff for sure. - I'd reduce his falling speed. He falls like a ****ing rock.) - He prefers the air so Arwing FS or bust. - Yuri Lowenthal. That is all.) - I heard he has a projectile attack in his game so I'd make that his FS, and change Counter to something else. Eliwood appears as an alt.) - Unchanged. - FS is now Ignis. - Counter is massively nerfed, or better yet, replaced. I just can't think of what to change it to. - Unchanged. - I'd change her moveset so that she's actually usable. I just can't play as her, and I know I'm not the only one.) - Unchanged.) - Unchanged. - Blood Falcon appears as an alt. - Unchanged. - His Up special is now his Jetpack from PM. is no longer an alt. - Unchanged.) - Unchanged. - Unchanged.) - Unchanged.) - Red Pills have fire effect, Yellow Pills stun, and Blue pills freeze, Side B is now much more powerful, and his has some new A moves. His Final Smash is also changed to something that involves Viruses because his current one is lazy as ****.) - *Deep Breath* Aether Side B (She charges forward and restores some health when she hits her target, and if timed correctly she can perform a follow-up attack that deals more damage and knockback), Aegis Down B (Energy projectiles deal half the damage and no knockback, and give her a temporary Power boost), new A moves, can switch to Lances using one of her taunts, Final Smash is now Pair up (with Chrom as her ally), and she has a Chrom alt (They switch roles in the Final Smash).) - Specials are the same but he uses the DP staff in his A moves. His FS is changed so that it's actually original.) - Now his own character! Has slightly tweaked specials (His up B is the same as Olimar's Sm4sh up B), he has some different A moves, and most importantly, he uses the OP Rock Pikmin (Deal lots of shield damage, have strong meteor effects, and deal high Knockback and damage overall) over Purple and White Pikmin. He's also faster and lighter. - - Ken alt. - Unchanged. - His up B now summons Tails who lifts him up like in the classic games. - Unchanged. - Her bullet arts are replaced with Nerf guns / - Removed due to being deemed a waste of resources by the director (me), because with the large number of characters there are in the game, the team will need all the development time they can get. Also, DLC Mii costumes result in the DLC being absurdly overpriced. However, you can put your Mii's head on the actual character (i.e. Mii that's dressed like Mario and has the same body type and also plays like Mario. Kinda like a reverse Mii costume)/ - He's basically in the game in the form of Toon Link./ - Lol/\/ - We have enough of Gen 1 Pokemon. They were part of a gimmick that no longer exists, but unlike Sheik and ZSS, they don't make sense on their own and would just stand out too much.) - Back because the hole he left on the roster is huge. Mostly the same as Brawl but he has uses an Explosive for his Down B, and he has the Wolfen as his Final Smash. - They've been in 2 Smash games before, and technical issues shouldn't be an issue anymore. - He added so much diversity to Brawl's roster and was very fun to play as.I'll help you out since you helped me out. I say Crash and Banjo & Kazooie are the best third parties. I measure third parties by impact (how recognizable, selling, and liked a character is) and history with Nintendo (so that the game stays a Nintendo All Stars). Crash was part of a three way rivalry involving Sonic and Mario, and Banjo practically is a Nintendo character. As for impact the Banjo Kazooie games are EXTREMELY critically acclaimed, and Nuts and Bolts is memorable in the same way the Star Wars prequels are memorable (they are horribly disappointing). Crash is a mascot who sells lots of games and had a revival with the N-Sane trilogy. Plus, Crash sells better than Bomberman and is also bigger to Nintendo.I decided to revise my roster yet again. It's still incomplete but I feel that this is a good starting point. Mostly going into details with vet changes.
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Hire me, Nintendo~
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REMOVE FIRE HYDRANTI'd just give him a Ms. Pac-Man alt already.
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Sm4sh veterans total = 56 (3 cuts)Note: Not all of them return.
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Returning cut veterans total = 3Captain Toad - Captain Toadette alt.
Waluigi
King K. Rool - Massive fan demand and unique moveset potential. Alts of his personas.
(Ridley) - Mostly to end the war, but also because he's super important to Metroid.
Bandana Dee
Decidueye - Best Alola starter.
Inkling - Shoo-in
Spring Man - See above
Chorus Kid
(Andy) - Advance Wars needs a playable character.
(Isaac) - Highly popular
The rest is still up in the air. I know I'm gonna add a Zelda newcomer, a Retro, and a third party, but everything else is still unclear.
11 newcomers so far
I'd play the **** outta that roster, it's got more characters I like than the actual roster.
To be honest, I'd put Medusa right up there with Hades, with Magnus and Viridi overall less important but popular KI characters overall.
I can get behind that. I had him on my 1st roster that I posted here, but I removed him because I removed him because I find him to be extremely unlikely and I don't have a connection to him.
They're owned by Microsoft, and people seriously overrate their importance to gaming.
Is Smash even advertised as "Nintendo All Stars" anymore? Because it was never true, even Smash 64 had curveballs like Ness and Captain Falcon that would otherwise fall into obscurity.
You removed him twice?
But yeah, I get ya. For an ideal roster, if you don't feel the character works, you shouldn't automatically add them. There's good reasons to if people have an argument for it you like. To be fair, being owned by Microsoft probably isn't that big of a deal. But the other part is far more, at least for a likely roster. I feel our most likely Microsoft options are a Battletoad, Master Chief, Steve, or a Killer Instinct character. They're all extremely relevant, popular, and made are important to gaming in their own right.
F-Zero was actually an active series at the time and not obscure. Earthbound wasn't all that obscure, but it was definitely not a big game. Part of it was due to advertising "This game stinks!" which was mistaken for something other than the fact that it had all kinds of odd creatures, and even a smell-related gimmicky thing available among the physical copies.
Ironically, you're doing both. All of them are pretty important now. Shovel Knight actually really made a splash(and eventually into Japan) and made Indie games way more notable. It was also a highly promoted game with an amiibo, multiple crossovers, and multiple unique campaigns. It's getting even more amiibo. It's an extremely hot Indie series at this time.
To be fair, I did add some characters I don't have any connection to (Inkling, Spring Man, Isaac and Andy, though I plan on playing their games eventually), but I mostly added them because of popularity (AW character demand isn't as vocal but I still feel that it needs to happen) and moveset potebtial. Crash is popular but his fanbase is not too vocal.You removed him twice?
I didn't mention this but I don't have much of a connection to BK either, due to getting into gaming about 10 years after they were bought by Microsoft. I also try to make it as logical as possible, and I doubt Microsoft characters are likely at all.
You do have a point there. But since EarthBound flopped horribly in the US, almost no one knew who Ness is, so I still think he's somewhat of a curveball.
Is that so?
I only liked Episode III personally. Ep I was Jar Jar/10 and Ep II was too focused on bad romance that involves an edgy teen to my liking. The Clone Wars movie was kinda meh but the show was incredible.
Who knows. Crash's resurgence could help. And right. I was more saying that for an ideal roster, bias is fine, as long as one acknowledges other viewpoints. I mean, how many of the world percentage knows or wants Brian from Quest 64 in? XD
I thought you implied your lack of a connection to BK. It's hard to say for the Microsoft characters. They're absolutely iconic, so that's not an issue in itself for Sakurai to look at. Moveset potential and licensing problems definitely are an actual issue though. Despite the Microsoft spokesperson saying "he'd be fine with BK in Smash", it isn't that simple. Nintendo is taken into account, and promoting any 3rd party can mean promoting another system. The difference of course is what company. Microsoft is a direct competitor. Whereas Square-Enix and Sega aren't(which both have an interesting history with Nintendo. Squeenix used to be in the their corner with Sega as their competitor, and they it reversed for a while, once Sega went 3rd party. Squeenix is now more than happy to team up with Nintendo, but for a while, they went right to Sony). So yeah, I can agree that there's a fair chance it may not happen just due to the Microsoft factor alone. I don't think it would matter strictly to Sakurai what company they're from, but this isn't entirely his ballgame either. He can only do so much. I mean, Nintendo is still his boss, you know?
Albeit, it's a cult classic and quite popular series now. But that is true. I think it was more around Brawl when the popularity spiked up hard. Especially when people thought Ness was getting cut. Ness almost did cut in Melee... for Lucas, oddly enough. Kind of makes the Brawl default(no secret characters) roster funny, doesn't it?
Fair enough. But hey, at least you are being honest about it. Who is your personal Indie choice(including Steve on the list, if only because he originated as an Indie).
Okay. I like all 7 main movies, Jar Jar Binks is my favorite non-droid, and Droidekka is my favorite droid. BTW, do you use discord? If so, PM me please.
Like I said, I do want to keep my roster logical. Otherwise, Chandelure would be a shoo-in.
I think that's the biggest issue. I think Nintendo wouldn't want to collaborate with a competitor.
Fair enough. But my main point is that Smash stopped being Nintendo All-Stars long ago, and it applies for other characters.
Oh, it's still Shovel Knight. I just don't want to humiliate myself, I just made that bet because I find him to be unlikely.
I thought you were talking about just the prequels. I do like the other movies.
My rule of thumb is "it depends the context". Adding a random 3rd party? Eh. Adding another to a larger franchise? Gotta be more careful. Chandelure is cool, er, hot, though.
To be fair, Minecraft didn't appear on a Nintendo system till after Microsoft owned it. Also, Halo had a cancelled DS version. I'm not so sure it holds much water for a Guest character at this point. I can see Microsoft caring about putting their exclusive series on a Nintendo system as a game, but a guest character in a game is very different. It could go either way. I think the bigger issue may be compromising which character to get, not so much the competition factor. And yes, I did forget about the Minecraft and Halo DS stuff earlier. Would've noted that earlier I remembered.
I don't think it works that way for vets, though. I think it's more of a case for later additions? Brawl did start this, yeah. I wouldn't call Lucas an All-Star, as he's not anywhere near as relevant or known as Ness is, even if some of it is due to Smash. Although it makes me wonder if the only reason they dropped it was cause of 3rd parties. It'd be misleading.
No, I like all 7 main moves. Period. But not everybody does, for whatever reason it may be.
Chandelure is best mon
I didn't know about these. Either way, I find a Microsoft character to be super unlikely, and I don't have a connection to any of their series anyway (the only consoles I own are Nintendo consoles, because their games interest me the most and I have limited money).
Roy comes to mind as he literally debuted in Melee and only became notable because of that. If it wasn't for Smash, he would've been forgotten completely.
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I meant I thought you were talking specifically about the prequels on your first reply. I was correcting myself (I said I only like Episode III, but I do actually like 4-7) It's cool if you like all of them though, if I sounded like I was attacking you, my bad.
I guess I'll sign up later.
Heh.
Well, the actual history of the companies proves that it's not "super unlikely", but I don't think it's likely either(you're just giving the competitor bit a little more credit than it deserves. It of course plays a role, but it's clear it's not everything to Nintendo. Also, I think it may depends if it's DLC or base roster. DLC actually might be a bigger issue because it is more promoted by design to others. A base roster 3rd party doesn't require extra promotion. Although to be fair, at least Steve already has a game, so they don't have to worry about that kind of issue. Master Chief is unlikely more due to its game contents and how to make his moveset work while still being something he would do, unique, and still toned down so it's not all bloody. The other 3 characters I mentioned probably could work better. If Nintendo was interested in saying, Killer Instinct VC, it wouldn't be hard to justify Fulgore/Jago(I say these two because either could be gone for. They're the most notable two of the series. Although Fulgore is closer to the face of it officially. Jago got a small notability point in the reboot/KI3 by being the only character at first. The final version of the cover has way more there, including Fulgore.)
I'm not sure that's very fair on his part. He debuted in Smash so of course people would know him more due to his debut series. That was intentional, to promote him via Smash. He's still known in Fire Emblem too. He was also cut in Brawl, and had tons of promotional content since then. Smash isn't the entirety of it. Don't forget Marth outside of Japan actually was only notable due to Smash introducing him to more than one region. The problem with Smash debut characters(even if they hail from another series overall) is that you can't really expect them to suddenly be notable for other reasons. Of course Smash would make them notable. That's how people got introduced to them. Heck, many regions don't have the first FE game outside of the remake. That's saying something. How many know Marth's original non-feminine design? Few.
Meant to reply to that. Just forgot what I meant to say. Probably something like "better to be wrong and enjoy the character option at this point. Take responsibility for what you said. That said, you shouldn't humiliate yourself for anyone. Just admitting you find it demeaning and compromise to find something reasonable to record yourself doing. Like playing Cruel Smash. That works."
Never had the impression you were attacking me. I was just too vague. No worries~
Okay. Perhaps I can invite you to a quick server. Due to some of the servers I'm in, maybe we can bring it to PM's.
Fair enough.
That's a good point. I don't think anyone will remember that bet even existed anyway by the time Shovel Knight gets revealed (if he gets revealed), and I'll just be happy about it if it happens.
Just the third parties if possible, please.
are cut. return. is Luigified. Didn't want to cut him because he's our only puzzle representative and he's been in two Smash games. uses his sword in his animations but is mostly the same as before. Ganon uses his trident and magic and has a Yuga alt (after he fuses with Ganon in ALBW). is heavily modified to the point she barely resembles , simillarly to how is to and is to ., Dixie Kong, and Impa are low priority. If there's not enough time to make them into full characters without making them 100% clones (They'd be semi-clones if there's enough time), they'd be scrapped, with Pittoo potentially being a DLC character.
Sweet.Updated roster (I'm going to be updating my roster alot. I change my mind very frequently about things)
What do you think?View attachment 133512
Notes:
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- Yes, Mario has 9 characters. I know it's a lot but 1. Mario is Nintendo's biggest series, and arguably the most iconic gaming series and 2. Captain Toad and Waluigi are too good to leave out of this game.
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- I believe Cranky is much more of an "All-Star" then Dixie, thanks to being the original DK. He's also more unique, which is my main criteria.
- I believe Ridley can work. If this game was actually in development and Ridley would be too difficult to implement then I'd replace him with Sylux and either make Ridley an Adventure Mode boss or consider him as a DLC choice (He'd sell believe me).
- Decidueye is not interchangeable with anyone.
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- I added Isabelle because while I'm not an AC fan, I've seen some "accidental fighter" movesets for her and I believe she'd be a fun addition, and she's also likely considering how big AC is.
- Shovel Knight is awesome. #SteelThyShovel
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My legacy.
Cranky has the uniquness factor though. It's the closest we'd ever get to having Scrooge McDuck in Smash.
Needs more interesting Zelda newcomer e.g Vaati, Midna, BotW Champion etc. Its just still Link Ganondorf and Zelda basically........boring.Balloon Fighter is not animu material though.
Real talk though, if they do make that reboot a thing, I hope it's nothing like the original in terms of gameplay. I really hated that game.
Also, considering said reboot doesn't exist, I don't have much material to work with.
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Also, decided to expand on my roster:
Feedback will be greatly appriciated.View attachment 133394
Added back
Anyway, the following characters have been added:
Chandelurebecause it's the best Pokemon and if you disagree you have a **** tastefor shock value, and it has a wide variety of moves in its disposal. More of a personal bias pick though (those of you who know me would know that).
Chibi Robo was added because his SSF2 moveset was pretty neat. Series is dead but whatever. Kinda filler.
Advance Wars kinda deserves to have a playable character, so I added Andy. Mostly filler.
Sukapon is the "retro" character (though again, it doesn't matter to me much). I know he's Japan-exclusive, but I figured "**** it, he'll be fun, and he's from Nintendo's first fighting game so it's justified". Filler again.
Dixie was scrapped from my original roster in favor of Cranky because she was too simillar to Diddy, but I figured, if I'd intentionally add her as a Semi-clone, it would be okay.I originally had Pichu there for the sake of bringing it back but then I realized that Dixie would be a much better clone choice and nobody likes Pichu so yeah
Finally, Crash has been swapped for Rayman, since Rayman is more likely than Crash (and Legends was ported to the Switch recently) and I actually played some of his games so I actually know what he would do.
Cuts:
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I actually changed my roster (See above) but I'll reply anyway.Needs more interesting Zelda newcomer e.g Vaati, Midna, BotW Champion etc. Its just still Link Ganondorf and Zelda basically........boring.
Maybe instead of Andy or someone. Keep Ganon he's fine cos more Zelda
Chandelure would be amazing. Still and probbably forever the best Ghost pokemon and really want a ghost and/or dark pokemon in Smash.
You tell him! Good stuff.
Yeah, that's my mentality to. I feel having the current set of Zelda characters is fine enough as they encompass the entire series though personally I would change up some movesets especially Ganondorf's. I would also add Young Link back with an MM inspired moveset.
I didn't say that but I agree. Zelda has 3 main characters, and all of them are in Smash. Anyone else is a one-off, and thosr who appeared in multiple games are either hated (Tingle) or just aren't unique (Impa).
Not true.
If Dr. Mario is both Mario and a Mario game, doesn't that mean Mario is a puzzle rep?
