Early Smash 5 Fan-Made Rosters (Ideal or Prediction)

[NonSpecificGuy]

Look at Wolf, the most hated character during Brawl,

Uhh, do what now? If anyone in Brawl was 'hated' it was Snake. He was the most divisive character on the roster. He would be a better example in this situation. Now everyone might not have been to keen on two Fox clones but saying people hated Wolf during Brawl would be a stretch. Let alone MOST hated.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm going with the logic that what really matters and what is most convenient is to have is deserving (by importance)

Cut Lucina

You're already condradicting yourself. Lucina is basically the face of Fire Emblem nowadays, as well as the 2nd most popular female in FE.

deserving (by importance), relevant, and recognizable

Isaac (Golden Sun)

We all wish that were true, but it isn't.

Now to fix representation

Representation comes in more ways than characters, i.e. stages, trophies, music tracks. Just saying.

The weird veterans (Jigglypuff, Roy, and Sheik) that are minimally important to their series but clearly deserve to be in are now Smash reps. This is because they are deserving and recognizable strictly through Smash.

How are they "deserving" if they're "weird"? Like, I'm not saying you should cut them, but you could use some reasonings. Is it because they're veterans? Because if you're going by that logic, you shouldn't cut Dr. Mario.
Also what's the point of making them Smash "reps"? I know that personally, it would hurt my OCD so much that I might not even buy the game, were it to happen.

eplace Ganondorf with Pig Ganon. Pig Ganon appears in far more games than Dorf (Ganondorf appears in 6, including remakes) and was revived in Breath of the Wild and Link Between Worlds.

Why not just have both? How is replacing one with the other "fixing representation"?

Captain Falcon, Game and Watch, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, and Little Mac are next to each other as Retro characters on the roster but have different logos.

Again, what's the point?

Also, why aren't you bringing back Wolf, ICs and Snake? I know it's up to you but I'd like to know.

 

[StrangeTamer]

Moveset potential also doesn't matter because it is the little differences that make you choose one character over another.

Not sure I understand what you mean by this. Are you saying movesets don't matter when it comes to deciding newcomers? Because if so, I disagree. A common reason to add a newcomer is because they can offer something new or interesting to the game through their gameplay. While popular or relevant characters also contribute to a character getting in Smash, it doesn't mean much if they won't work as an interesting character. Look at Dixie Kong, a popular and recognizable character that still isn't in Smash. It's highly possible this is only because her moveset wouldn't have interesting or stand out from others.

 

[LunchmanJ]

You're already condradicting yourself. Lucina is basically the face of Fire Emblem nowadays, as well as the 2nd most popular female in FE.


We all wish that were true, but it isn't.


Representation comes in more ways than characters, i.e. stages, trophies, music tracks. Just saying.


How are they "deserving" if they're "weird"? Like, I'm not saying you should cut them, but you could use some reasonings. Is it because they're veterans? Because if you're going by that logic, you shouldn't cut Dr. Mario.
Also what's the point of making them Smash "reps"? I know that personally, it will hurt my OCD so much that I might not even buy the game, were it to happen.

Why not just have both? How is replacing one with the other "fixing representation"?

Again, what's the point?

Also, why aren't you bringing back Wolf, ICs and Snake? I know it's up to you but I'd like to know.

I forgot about that. Will fix.

Isaac still has a chance to get a new game, even if 7 years of absence is too much, which I don't think it is given the acclaim and thus memorability Golden Sun has. Why do you think K. Rool is popular? The argument that Camelot won't do it is bull****. I'm sure Nintendo will ask Camelot to make another Golden Sun because of the money Golden Sun makes. Also, Golden Sun the first game sold around as much as Pikmin, so it is a big memorable franchise.

This is strange and insulting nitpicking. This is a roster thread, so I'm posting character stuff.

Jigglypuff has appeared in every Smash game as playable and people would choke a puppy if she was cut. Sheik has appeared in every Smash game except 64 and people would also riot if cut. Roy technically originated in Smash and is heavily requested. It's also disrespectful to cut a DLC character. Them being Smash reps justifies their importance and inclusion as they are deserving through Smash and definetly not their original game. I could also have Sheik be a part of Zelda, but she would lose her amazing down special, so...

Because Ganondorf doesn't deserve a spot if Pig Ganon gets in. It would be an unnecessary repeat of the same character, one in a lesser form. At least Toon Link represents a younger version of Link that appears in more games than the adult one.

I think it organizes better.

Wolf and Ice Climbers are on my Smash 6 roster which I edited into my earlier post before reading your post. Snake has no big history with Nintendo.

Not sure I understand what you mean by this. Are you saying movesets don't matter when it comes to deciding newcomers? Because if so, I disagree. A common reason to add a newcomer is because they can offer something new or interesting to the game through their gameplay. While popular or relevant characters also contribute to a character getting in Smash, it doesn't mean much if they won't work as an interesting character. Look at Dixie Kong, a popular and recognizable character that still isn't in Smash. It's highly possible this is only because her moveset wouldn't have interesting or stand out from others.

Sakurai thinks moveset potential matters, but I don't. Little uniquenesses can make a big difference in how a character is played. Look at Falco and Fox from Melee! They are clones, but are completely different.

 

[Deleted member]

Isaac still has a chance to get a new game, even if 7 years of absence is too much, which I don't think it is given the acclaim and thus memorability Golden Sun has.

You're missing the point.
I'm not saying GS doesn't have a chance to come back. I'm saying that he currently isn't relevant (no game since 2010 = irrelevant) or recognizable (I personally didn't even know him before I got into Smash speculation) and he isn't as important as you make him out to be (You'd think they'd at least have a trophy of him in Sm4sh if he was, but nope. The only GS content we got was 2 music tracks).

Why do you think K. Rool is popular?

Relevance =/= Popularity

The argument that Camelot won't do it is bull****. I'm sure Nintendo will ask Camelot to make another Golden Sun because of the money Golden Sun makes.

How can you be sure? Do you work at Nintendo? Don't bank on that.
And besides, this isn't the case at the time of this conversation. Therefore, Isaac is irrelevant.

This is strange and insulting nitpicking. This is a roster thread, so I'm posting character stuff.

I admit I was a bit harsh. Sorry about that.

Jigglypuff has appeared in every Smash game as playable and people would choke a puppy if she was cut. Sheik has appeared in every Smash game except 64 and people would also riot if cut.

You said that requests don't matter though... Just because they're veterans doesn't make them "deserving".

Roy technically originated in Smash and is heavily requested. It's also disrespectful to cut a DLC character.

Again, you said requests don't matter. Also, how is it "disrespectful" to cut DLC characters? I dislike almost every cut but what makes DLC characters special?

Them being Smash reps justifies their importance and inclusion as they are deserving through Smash and definetly not their original game.

How so? What's the point of seperating them from their home series? You're not making any sense here.

Because Ganondorf doesn't deserve a spot if Pig Ganon gets in. It would be an unnecessary repeat of the same character, one in a lesser form. At least Toon Link represents a younger version of Link that appears in more games than the adult one.

Arguemnt invalid.

 

[LunchmanJ]

You're missing the point.
I'm not saying GS doesn't have a chance to come back. I'm saying that he currently isn't relevant (no game since 2010 = irrelevant) or recognizable (I personally didn't even know him before I got into Smash speculation) and he isn't as important as you make him out to be (You'd think they'd at least have a trophy of him in Sm4sh if he was, but nope. The only GS content we got was 2 music tracks).

Relevance =/= Popularity

How can you be sure? Do you work at Nintendo? Don't bank on that.
And besides, this isn't the case at the time of this conversation. Therefore, Isaac is irrelevant.

I admit I was a bit harsh. Sorry about that.

You said that requests don't matter though... Just because they're veterans doesn't make them "deserving".

Again, you said requests don't matter. Also, how is it "disrespectful" to cut DLC characters? I dislike almost every cut but what makes DLC characters special?

How so? What's the point of seperating them from their home series? You're not making any sense here.

Arguemnt invalid.

I underexplained here. Golden Sun isn't too irrelevant because of how memorable the series is. Memorable means it stays with you for a long time. And it's memorable because it's a good series.

Same argument of memorability I just said for Isaac. Memorability overrides relevance.

I'm not sure, but Isaac being included in Smash while he's still relevant could cause the return to be more likely.

Thank you.

Think of Jigglypuff the same way you would think of other characters. She's a Smash rep that appears in EVERY SINGLE SMASH GAME.

Sakurai tried to put the most appealing characters he could think of as DLC, and now you want to cut them? This is not strictly importance like a machine, this is the creator trying to help us out.

This is hard to explain, honestly. I know it has something to do with the meaning of representation.

Sheik is a part of Zelda's moveset and a Smash rep, and ZSS represents the reveal of Samus outside her suit.

 

[StrangeTamer]

I'm going with the logic that what really matters and what is most convenient is to have is deserving (by importance), relevant, and recognizable characters. Why not requests? Because any character, if well designed and chosen, can become a highly wanted character. Look at Wolf, the most hated character during Brawl, now an extremely wanted character due to his moveset and deserving nature as Star Fox's villain/rival. Besides, all the requested characters are recognizable and important enough to be in this Smash even if they are a little obscure since we are getting closer to only having obscure one offs as choices.

Moveset potential also doesn't matter because it is the little differences that make you choose one character over another.

With this in mind, here is my Smash 5 roster!

Newcomers:

- Toad (Mario) - There are main Toads (like Blue Toad and Captain Toad), so all you need to do is choose one.
- Pig Ganon (Zelda)*
- Dixie Kong (DK) - Playable character in most DK games since her appearance. Although she does not have the track record of Cranky Kong, her being playable so much really adds to her screen time.
- King K. Rool (DK) - It is important to have some characters that are popular, and given K. Rool's extreme importance as the last main villain available and iconic nature, it's only a matter if time before he returns.
- Inkling (Splatoon)
- Spring Man (ARMS)
- Ridley (Metroid)
- Tom Nook (Animal Crossing) - Animal Crossing should've had this guy in Smash 4. It sells amazing.
- Waddle Dee (Kirby) - The one with the Bandanna.
- Isaac (Golden Sun)

Now to fix representation

- The weird veterans (Jigglypuff, Roy, and Sheik) that are minimally important to their series but clearly deserve to be in are now Smash reps. This is because they are deserving and recognizable strictly through Smash.
- Cut Dr. Mario and Dark Pit
- Replace Ganondorf with Pig Ganon. Pig Ganon appears in far more games than Dorf (Ganondorf appears in 6, including remakes) and was revived in Breath of the Wild and Link Between Worlds.
- Captain Falcon, Game and Watch, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, and Little Mac are next to each other as Retro characters on the roster but have different logos.
- Yoshi is a Mario rep.

I had a Smash 6 roster here, but I genuinely edited it out by accident.

Wanted to throw out some positive feedback. I don't dislike any of your choices for newcomers and while a few of them aren't characters I have on my list I respect their fans and their reasons for having them. I'd like to hear your thoughts on other popular character choices or if you think 10 newcomers will be it.
My only gripe really is your ways of fixing representation. In general I'm just a guy who hates cuts even if its for clones, and I don't think any character should replace anyone (like when people thought a newer Pokemon would replace Lucario because Mewtwo wasn't in Brawl). Also I don't see the point in Yoshi being a Mario rep, he has enough games in his own spin-off series to deserve his own series. Plus it would throw a monkey wrench into everything since the number of Mario characters is often thought to have a limit, which Yoshi would theoretical contribute to.

 

[LunchmanJ]

Wanted to throw out some positive feedback. I don't dislike any of your choices for newcomers and while a few of them aren't characters I have on my list I respect their fans and their reasons for having them. I'd like to hear your thoughts on other popular character choices or if you think 10 newcomers will be it.
My only gripe really is your ways of fixing representation. In general I'm just a guy who hates cuts even if its for clones, and I don't think any character should replace anyone (like when people thought a newer Pokemon would replace Lucario because Mewtwo wasn't in Brawl). Also I don't see the point in Yoshi being a Mario rep, he has enough games in his own spin-off series to deserve his own series. Plus it would throw a monkey wrench into everything since the number of Mario characters is often thought to have a limit, which Yoshi would theoretical contribute to.

Yoshi's first solo game was Super MARIO World 2, and his games feature Mario characters, and he appears in the main Mario games. This game's only limit of characters is the hardware and the people.

Krystal, Wolf, and Ice Climbers are lower priority for me in terms of importance. Krystal wasn't in Star Fox Zero. Wolf isn't as crucial to the plot as Andross is as a villain or even Slippy. He just appears through dialouge sometimes in Star Fox 64, the biggest Star Fox game. Ice Climbers' only value is through Smash.

I don't like having Third Parties over First Parties.

Chibi Robo is a stupid choice. All of his games are flops. People only want him because of his amiibo and because they know him through marketing. They probably haven't even played his games.

Impa appears often, but is never crucial to the plot. Her importance all adds up to half a game, and she can't even be in her usual state (an old lady).

Waluigi is MAD underrated. His wacky personality is enough for a moveset. It was enough for Wario! Just imagine him teleporting, throwing Kamehamehas, etc. Also, him being in so many spinoffs make him a favorite kart racer to pick, and he really sticks in your head because he's playable.

EDIT: I don't think any of these characters deserve to be playable.

 

[N3ON]

1. Golden Sun is irrelevant in Nintendo's current stable of offerings, which means Smash won't turn to it for any notable content for the time being, even though
2. Golden Sun may be memorable which is why Isaac has maintained a good deal of popularity for a character in his situation, however other more popular characters in similar situations haven't been included either yet, so
3. Until Camelot makes another Golden Sun (which seems increasingly more unlikely given that Mario Sports are safer ROIs for Nintendo, but never say never) it's unwise to anticipate Isaac. Having said that,
4. Golden Sun was larger than people give it credit for in the 6th gen, that is true. It hasn't always been as niche as people insinuate, and has outperformed existing series on the roster. That is beside the point though as currently, it is indeed niche and comparatively irrelevant.

If Smash just looked for impact above relevance I'd agree Isaac's spot, at this point, was waiting for him, but I think the last couple Smash iterations have shown where the attention lies. Unfortunate, as I think the roster would be more interesting the other way.

 

[Deleted member]

I underexplained here. Golden Sun isn't too irrelevant because of how memorable the series is. Memorable means it stays with you for a long time. And it's memorable because it's a good series.

Same argument of memorability I just said for Isaac. Memorability overrides relevance.

I'm sorry, but that's bull****.

I'm pretty sure K. Rool and Isaac supporters know that their characters are unlikely due to relevance issues. K. Rool has the importance factor that you mentioned so I won't argue, but Isaac lacks in all those categories. You never said anything about memorability having any effect on your choices. And no, Memorability actually does not override relevance.

I'm not sure, but Isaac being included in Smash while he's still relevant could cause the return to be more likely.

But if he was relevant, it'd be because his series has returned already...? And if he hasn't, wouldn't that make him, IDK, irrelevant? Your entire sentence is a paradox.

Think of Jigglypuff the same way you would think of other characters. She's a Smash rep that appears in EVERY SINGLE SMASH GAME.

No, she's not a Smash rep. She's a Pokemon rep. I didn't say you should cut her, but what exactly makes her a Smash rep?

Sakurai tried to put the most appealing characters he could think of as DLC, and now you want to cut them? This is not strictly importance like a machine, this is the creator trying to help us out.

What makes DLC different than anything else? What makes cutting Corrin more disrespectful than cutting Greninja? Your logic is flawed.

Keep in mind that I didn't tell you who to cut or who not to cut (Barring Lucina but that was just me trying to help you out), I just don't understand why they should be seperated from their own series. It would just be aesthetically displeasing (To me, at least, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to that). I don't want anyone to be cut, with the exception of the Miis, and I wouldn't lose sleep if Dr. Mario, Lucina, Roy, or Dark Pit were cut.

ZSS represents the reveal of Samus outside her suit.

...I don't think it's important enough that it needs to be represented in Smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm sorry, but that's bull****.

I'm pretty sure K. Rool and Isaac supporters know that their characters are unlikely due to relevance issues. K. Rool has the importance factor that you mentioned so I won't argue, but Isaac lacks in all those categories. You never said anything about memorability having any effect on your choices. And no, Memorability actually does not override relevance.

Yes but...

^ This here totally happened in Smash 4.

King K.Rool was around the same 'tier' in popularity as Mega Man. Same as Mewtwo, and I guess Ridley before most realised he wouldn't happen (yet again). Isaac also compared relatively well with these giants. I think you are soley underestimating the importance of their popularity.

Yes, maybe bringing back Mega Man is indeed a 'grander' event than King K.Rool, because he's essentially in a way a NES retro character.. But a third party one, and a well known gaming icon. WELL GREAT... Still K.Rool and Isaac where as popular as him, and Mewtwo, who's constantly voted as one of the most popular Pokemon characters.

SO...

The fact that K.Rool and Isaac could meassure up to a legendary gaming icon and one of the most popular Pokemon and cut Smash veterans, both with huge cult followings, IS a great testimony to their popularity.

 

[LunchmanJ]

I'm sorry, but that's bull****.

I'm pretty sure K. Rool and Isaac supporters know that their characters are unlikely due to relevance issues. K. Rool has the importance factor that you mentioned so I won't argue, but Isaac lacks in all those categories. You never said anything about memorability having any effect on your choices. And no, Memorability actually does not override relevance.


But if he was relevant, it'd be because his series has returned already...? And if he hasn't, wouldn't that make him, IDK, irrelevant? Your entire sentence is a paradox.


No, she's not a Smash rep. She's a Pokemon rep. I didn't say you should cut her, but what exactly makes her a Smash rep?


What makes DLC different than anything else? What makes cutting Corrin more disrespectful than cutting Greninja? Your logic is flawed.

Keep in mind that I didn't tell you who to cut or who not to cut (Barring Lucina but that was just me trying to help you out), I just don't understand why they should be seperated from their own series. It would just be aesthetically displeasing (To me, at least, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to that). I don't want anyone to be cut, with the exception of the Miis, and I wouldn't lose sleep if Dr. Mario, Lucina, Roy, or Dark Pit were cut.


...I don't think it's important enough that it needs to be represented in Smash.

Golden Sun can be revived through Smash! I already said this! If Camelot sees how requested Isaac is and Isaac's inclusion in Smash, we will get a new Golden Sun.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes but...

^ This here totally happened in Smash 4.

King K.Rool was around the same 'tier' in popularity as Mega Man. Same as Mewtwo, and I guess Ridley before most realised he wouldn't happen (yet again). Isaac also compared relatively well with these giants. I think you are soley underestimating the importance of their popularity.

Yes, maybe bringing back Mega Man is indeed a 'grander' event than King K.Rool, because he's essentially in a way a NES retro character.. But a third party one, and a well known gaming icon. WELL GREAT... Still K.Rool and Isaac where as popular as him, and Mewtwo, who's constantly voted as one of the most popular Pokemon characters.

SO...

The fact that K.Rool and Isaac could meassure up to a legendary gaming icon and one of the most popular Pokemon and cut Smash veterans, both with huge cult followings, IS a great testimony to their popularity.

You missed my point.

We're not discussing how likely X character is, we're discussing Lunchman's logic for adding characters.

deserving (by importance), relevant, and recognizable characters

Isaac doesn't fit into any of these.

Golden Sun can be revived through Smash! I already said this! If Camelot sees how requested Isaac is and Isaac's inclusion in Smash, we will get a new Golden Sun.

You weren't clear enough on that.

Yes, Camelot can achknowledge that, but they haven't done that yet. Don't bank too much on that. You said you want to add relevant characters, and Isaac just isn't that. I seriously feel like a broken record.

 

[LunchmanJ]

You missed my point.

We're not discussing how likely X character is, we're discussing Lunchman's logic for adding characters.

Isaac doesn't fit into any of these.


You weren't clear enough on that.

Yes, Camelot can achknowledge that, but they haven't done that yet. Don't bank too much on that. You said you want to add relevant characters, and Isaac just isn't that. I seriously feel like a broken record.

He didn't miss the point. He was spot on on my reasons for including him.

Now that my roster for Smash 5 includes Wolf and Ice Climbers, there really isn't a 1st Party character who beats Isaac for the 70th spot.

 

[Deleted member]

He didn't miss the point. He was spot on on my reasons for including him.

Now that my roster for Smash 5 includes Wolf and Ice Climbers, there really isn't a 1st Party character who beats Isaac for the 70th spot.

He said why he thinks Isaac isn't as unlikely as I think.

He didn't give reasons as to why they'd include him.

...Unless you count this

King K.Rool was around the same 'tier' in popularity as Mega Man... Isaac also compared relatively well with these giants.

In which case, you're condradicting your statement about not taking character requests into account. Try again.

 

[LunchmanJ]

He said why he thinks Isaac isn't as unlikely as I think.

He didn't give reasons as to why they'd include him.

...Unless you count this

In which case, you're condradicting your statement about not taking character requests into account. Try again.

I contradict my statement about not taking character requests into account.

 

[Deleted member]

I contradict my statement about not taking character requests into account.

...
I'm really don't get what's the point of that post.
Whatever, I have given up on arguing with you. I don't care anymore.

 

[LunchmanJ]

...
I'm really not what's the point of that post.
Whatever, I have given up on arguing with you. I don't care anymore.

This is not an attack on your posts. I realized that requests matter to sell the game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wait, did somebody say Snake has no history with Nintendo? So that doesn't include more than one game on the actual consoles/handhelds? The NES games, the Gamecube games? Heck, if I remember right, there was some Gameboy(or Color or GBA) games, but that I only just remember. Either way, that's a load of bull. Honestly, L LunchmanJ , you need to do a lot more research before making these statements.

First, Smash alone does not make a character relevant. Jigglypuff is a Pokemon rep in the long run. She did stay relevant in Pokemon in only specific cases(Gen VI gave her the Fairy type, which was the last time she was relevant since the Anime, and at best, her appearance in the spin-off Pokemon tactical rpg game, Nobunaga's Ambition). She may become relevant again in the latest Sun and Moon anime. Yes, part of her being in is due to being a vet, but it's only because she was originally added due to being a semi-clone to Kirby in 64(with some of the same Throws and A moves), which made her easier to add than Mewtwo, but that also worked because she was highly popular due to the Anime itself. A lot has changed since then. She's actually been lower priority in Brawl and Smash 4 because of not being extremely relevant at the time. Her ease of recreating the moveset is really all she has over Mewtwo now(who needs a lot more work because he's a lot more unique).

I don't need to explain Isaac to you again, but no, he is not currently relevant(and not all that recognizable. He's niche. He has a vocal minority for a fanbase. And while I do want him in, I doubt that'll happen while Golden Sun isn't getting any games. The series is on a hiatus at this time. After Dark Dawn did pretty badly, I can see why it's harder to throw the character in. And that's even assuming he would go for Isaac. There's more than one notable character. Alex is a stand-out among the games, and relevancy would've more likely gotten Matthew, who, while not as popular at this point or nearly as exposed to some, may cause more controversy. On the other hand, either could if a person likes the other more. But that's kind of how it goes with multiple protagonists of a series in general). For that matter, requests don't automatically get someone in. We've seen that even through the ballot. Requests are part of it, but they need to be realizable(this means moveset potential, relevancy, and fitting any other criteria at that particular moment that the developers see fit. Bayonetta was chosen because of these factors. We don't know exactly what criteria Sakurai was going for. It could be he wanted a 3rd party, and Bayo was the best choice there. But she fit the other two categories the best. A new gimmick(moveset potential), extremely relevant, and very easy to license. Last point to note is that she was in the top 5 in all regions, which is the most important part for a ballot. Taking everybody into account).

Due to how business works, Sakurai actually had to build his rosters heavily around relevancy. Not every single option, obviously(retros and 3rd parties are bigger exceptions at times), but this is how he can determine which ones will easily be recognizable. However, you're forgetting Smash 4's character theme; the gimmicks. Practically every new character had one except the clones(that is, the costumes turned into clones). That was the point. This changes a lot. We don't know if the next Smash will concentrate on that either. That was Smash 4's unique character selection point. Sakurai even said that himself; "Characters should have something they and only they can do." Now, he did say it before Smash 4 itself, but the point wasn't entirely a gimmick, but more uniqueness. The gimmick also happens to fit into this philosophy. I'm not saying a lot of characters should be looked over either. I'm saying that you're forgetting why his character selection was picky in the first place. Requests aren't enough. Moveset potential that makes a character feel unique actually matters more.

As for Brawl's so-called character hatred, it did have some unpopular picks(but only at first). Snake got only a little due to feeling like he was more of a Sony character. He did have Nintendo appearances prior to the series(but he wasn't even added outside of a request from Kojima due to what his son wanted. That's the only reason he got in). He fit the artstyle, and didn't exactly stand out beyond being what you'd expect from any 3rd party, which is "This isn't a Nintendo character". Sonic got heat too just because he was a 3rd party character, and being from Nintendo's original rival company(Sega) didn't help either. He was accepted easier because he felt more "kiddy" and "cartoony", of course. This applies to every 3rd party. R.O.B. got heat too, although it's really not clear why for many. Yeah, he was a toy at first. One issue is many didn't realize how important he was to Nintendo and Gaming's history. Many people weren't born around that time, or didn't do the research. He didn't reappear till Mario Kart DS, so he wasn't easily relevant to the fan's eyes. And technically lacked currently relevancy(but that's kind of how retro picks work. They aren't picked because of relevancy, but because of their unique history in gaming and what they can now contribute as a moveset. They all had something important or of note when chosen). I think those were the only super controversial ones. There was a bit towards Zero Suit Samus, but only because they took her original design and made her a far more sexy version with tight spandex and a larger chest than the games depicted normally, which didn't sit well with some, as it made her look sexualized(combined with her actual dialogue being closer to a dominatrix, which, while Samus was definitely a strong woman in how her characterization was designed and applied, although more with body language than dialogue at the time of her games, which made the sudden voice jarring and felt somewhat out of character to many). Some did get heat for "apparently"(which is only maybe true in one case of Toon Link replacing Young Link, and that's only really a viable theory, not even confirmed) replacing others too(Lucario for Mewtwo, Ike for Roy were the other ones. Neither were the case.)

Also, I want to correct you on your Capcom points. Capcom Japan owns MegaMan. Capcom USA owns Ryu. They are actually different companies, although obviously connected. Related, DLC isn't any more special than the others, but DLC also is viewed differently among the fans because they have to pay extra for characters. They can easily be more controversial if it someone they didn't want. Some already raised an eyebrow that "Capcom"(do note it's again, two different companies) got 2 characters. Some even forget Bayonetta is owned by Sega, and see her under Platinum Games(who did create her, and did make the original game, but Sega still owns the character).

Lastly, while I agree that Yoshi is a Yoshi rep now, Smash 4 already showed that he doesn't necessarily have to be as separated from the Mario franchise on the roster to make sense in Sakurai's eyes. He always did treat Yoshi, Wario, and oddly enough DK(despite originating at the same time as Mario, only showing they have the same universe/are connected) as Mario sub-series. Not counting how they're all near each other(bar the clone corner), he didn't want Yoshi separated from Mario's set of characters. I disagree with how he did it, but that's what he did. When he was put in the roster placement, it was still in order of major appearance, so he came after the rest of the regular Mario characters before the new generation of them(Bowser Jr. and Rosalina). If you're not aware, many did find this jarring since he was treated as a unique series from Smash 64 onwards.

Last thing I want to say, though; For the purpose of Smash Bros., a character series' rep depends entirely on their symbol. This is why Mii Fighters is treated as a Smash Bros. representation. Part of it is obviously because they're the new Fighting team, but the other is that their moveset is entirely created as a SSB thing. They don't represent the various Wii series at all, beyond the fact they're Miis. They weren't designed that way. Simply put, you should realize that nearly every character will still be a representation of the series their symbol shows. This can obviously vary in execution. Ness doesn't actually have a lot of his own moves, but he sure represents Earthbound's psi skills well due to his specials(which covers moves his team in Earthbound uses). Series will multiple reps(say, Mario) focus more on what that character does normally, instead of stuff concentrated on what happens in their games overall(as noted with the Earthbound point). Earthbound/Mother only had 2 reps, and Lucas followed the same design style as Ness, which is to use various Psi from his party members, less so from himself only. They are clearly meant to show off stuff from the games themselves, not so much what they normally can do. Mario's moves, on the other hand, are stuff he actually does. Ganondorf is a perfect example of it being unique in execution. While he did originate as a clone, that also did a lot of what he was capable of in return. He was actually a pretty brutal physical character with magic in OOT, his artwork even depicting him attempting to punch Link with an overhead strike(which is basically his Forward Air attack, something Falcon doesn't have. Likewise, Ganondorf's design in Smash is a represented of what the Triforce of Power can completely do, which is increase the power of the user. It's not just "turn into Ganon", which is only just one ability, and that's only due to storyline reasons that need a spoiler to understand. Ganondorf is a powerful magic user. Using magic to increase the power of your moves is actually a very reasonable ability that fits him pretty well. Obviously he was still a clone due to circumstance, even being the only reason he got in. what he was about, murderous power).

Long post, but make sure to look at every unique point. They all note some issues with your roster. And I won't be getting entirely into your other various choices, just explaining a lot about what Smash is designed like, so you understand some points of the official roster selections more.

 

[Deleted member]

This is not an attack on your posts. I realized that requests matter to sell the game.

EDIT: I really think there are no candidates for a Smash 6 (no big supporting characters and no successful Nintendo franchises) so instead I'll do a list of potential modded characters:

- Daisy (Mario)
- Waluigi (Wario)
- Cranky Kong (DK)
- Slippy (Star Fox)
- ...

And it's pathetic.

How about an Advance Wars character? The series was quite big once, and it had more games than Golden Sun.

 

[TheHumanSonikku]

Third-Party Characters: I feel that Mega Man, Pac-Man Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta and Sonic aren't gonna stay forever imo. Maybe Mega Man, Sonic, and Pac-Man but I feel a few new third party characters are gonna take the scene.

I personally think that Sonic could stay as a veteran in the ongoing entries, but do you guys think that Sonic could get another rep?

 

[Deleted member]

I personally think that Sonic could stay as a veteran in the ongoing entries, but do you guys think that Sonic could get another rep?

First off, "rep" doesn't neccesarily character. It means representation in general (i.e. Stages, items, Trophies, etc.)
Nitpicks aside though, I doubt it, since it's a third party series. I wouldn't mind seeing Tails, Knuckles, or Eggman in Smash though.

 

[StrangeTamer]

I personally think that Sonic could stay as a veteran in the ongoing entries, but do you guys think that Sonic could get another rep?

I honestly doubt we'll see more Sonic characters unless someone like Shadow is added as a costume. I've been wrong about characters before though and would welcome them since I'm a big Sonic fan. As of now, we only have the mascot character per third party franchise, so if there's one "Smash hasn't done X before" barrier to be broken next, it could very well be that one.

That being said, I feel like Sonic is a mainstay moving forward. He's like the most iconic non-Nintendo character people want to see Mario fight.

 

[Deleted member]

I personally think that Sonic could stay as a veteran in the ongoing entries, but do you guys think that Sonic could get another rep?

It's possible for Sonic to get a second character, but it is questionable if it is plausible.

 

[Geno Boost]

I personally think that Sonic could stay as a veteran in the ongoing entries, but do you guys think that Sonic could get another rep?

I think it shouldn't, I know people would love to have mario series vs sonic series game but they should get their own crossover because I think when it comes to 3rd parties in smash I feel it should be someone who represent important part to gaming history so I don't think making putting more than one sonic character is good idea in smash
Sega has other successful franchises such as super monkey ball and Alex Kidd and many more

 

[Deleted member]

I think it shouldn't, I know people would love to have mario series vs sonic series game but they should get their own crossover because I think when it comes to 3rd parties in smash I feel it should be someone who represent important part to gaming history so I don't think making putting more than one sonic character is good idea in smash
Sega has other successful franchises such as super monkey ball and Alex Kidd and many more

They already have a second character in the game though.

 

[Geno Boost]

They already have a second character in the game though.

Yeah but I would love to have a 3rd one that wouldn't be from the same franchise

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah but I would love to have a 3rd one that wouldn't be from the same franchise

I see.

If we were to get a 3rd one, I personally wouldn't want it to be from a franchise we already have either.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm the opposite. I'd much prefer big name characters people would actually care about from established guest series than random characters nobody would really want from other franchises within the same company.

Though this is getting off-topic. Back to rosters before the mods get upset again.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

This is an ideal roster, not a prediction. I think you missed that bit.

But I feel that Sonic, Bayonetta, Pac-Man, Mega Man and Ryu are pretty safe due to their owners' relationship with Nintendo (Bayonetta is owned by Sega just like Sonic, and Ryu is owned by Capcom along with Mega Man). I can see Cloud getting cut but that will make me sad.

Yeah I know that, but just had to get my two cents on it.
I'm well aware relationships don't last forever between Nintendo and third party companies. Just saying.

 

[LunchmanJ]

Wait, did somebody say Snake has no history with Nintendo? So that doesn't include more than one game on the actual consoles/handhelds? The NES games, the Gamecube games? Heck, if I remember right, there was some Gameboy(or Color or GBA) games, but that I only just remember. Either way, that's a load of bull. Honestly, L LunchmanJ , you need to do a lot more research before making these statements.

First, Smash alone does not make a character relevant. Jigglypuff is a Pokemon rep in the long run. She did stay relevant in Pokemon in only specific cases(Gen VI gave her the Fairy type, which was the last time she was relevant since the Anime, and at best, her appearance in the spin-off Pokemon tactical rpg game, Nobunaga's Ambition). She may become relevant again in the latest Sun and Moon anime. Yes, part of her being in is due to being a vet, but it's only because she was originally added due to being a semi-clone to Kirby in 64(with some of the same Throws and A moves), which made her easier to add than Mewtwo, but that also worked because she was highly popular due to the Anime itself. A lot has changed since then. She's actually been lower priority in Brawl and Smash 4 because of not being extremely relevant at the time. Her ease of recreating the moveset is really all she has over Mewtwo now(who needs a lot more work because he's a lot more unique).

I don't need to explain Isaac to you again, but no, he is not currently relevant(and not all that recognizable. He's niche. He has a vocal minority for a fanbase. And while I do want him in, I doubt that'll happen while Golden Sun isn't getting any games. The series is on a hiatus at this time. After Dark Dawn did pretty badly, I can see why it's harder to throw the character in. And that's even assuming he would go for Isaac. There's more than one notable character. Alex is a stand-out among the games, and relevancy would've more likely gotten Matthew, who, while not as popular at this point or nearly as exposed to some, may cause more controversy. On the other hand, either could if a person likes the other more. But that's kind of how it goes with multiple protagonists of a series in general). For that matter, requests don't automatically get someone in. We've seen that even through the ballot. Requests are part of it, but they need to be realizable(this means moveset potential, relevancy, and fitting any other criteria at that particular moment that the developers see fit. Bayonetta was chosen because of these factors. We don't know exactly what criteria Sakurai was going for. It could be he wanted a 3rd party, and Bayo was the best choice there. But she fit the other two categories the best. A new gimmick(moveset potential), extremely relevant, and very easy to license. Last point to note is that she was in the top 5 in all regions, which is the most important part for a ballot. Taking everybody into account).

Due to how business works, Sakurai actually had to build his rosters heavily around relevancy. Not every single option, obviously(retros and 3rd parties are bigger exceptions at times), but this is how he can determine which ones will easily be recognizable. However, you're forgetting Smash 4's character theme; the gimmicks. Practically every new character had one except the clones(that is, the costumes turned into clones). That was the point. This changes a lot. We don't know if the next Smash will concentrate on that either. That was Smash 4's unique character selection point. Sakurai even said that himself; "Characters should have something they and only they can do." Now, he did say it before Smash 4 itself, but the point wasn't entirely a gimmick, but more uniqueness. The gimmick also happens to fit into this philosophy. I'm not saying a lot of characters should be looked over either. I'm saying that you're forgetting why his character selection was picky in the first place. Requests aren't enough. Moveset potential that makes a character feel unique actually matters more.

As for Brawl's so-called character hatred, it did have some unpopular picks(but only at first). Snake got only a little due to feeling like he was more of a Sony character. He did have Nintendo appearances prior to the series(but he wasn't even added outside of a request from Kojima due to what his son wanted. That's the only reason he got in). He fit the artstyle, and didn't exactly stand out beyond being what you'd expect from any 3rd party, which is "This isn't a Nintendo character". Sonic got heat too just because he was a 3rd party character, and being from Nintendo's original rival company(Sega) didn't help either. He was accepted easier because he felt more "kiddy" and "cartoony", of course. This applies to every 3rd party. R.O.B. got heat too, although it's really not clear why for many. Yeah, he was a toy at first. One issue is many didn't realize how important he was to Nintendo and Gaming's history. Many people weren't born around that time, or didn't do the research. He didn't reappear till Mario Kart DS, so he wasn't easily relevant to the fan's eyes. And technically lacked currently relevancy(but that's kind of how retro picks work. They aren't picked because of relevancy, but because of their unique history in gaming and what they can now contribute as a moveset. They all had something important or of note when chosen). I think those were the only super controversial ones. There was a bit towards Zero Suit Samus, but only because they took her original design and made her a far more sexy version with tight spandex and a larger chest than the games depicted normally, which didn't sit well with some, as it made her look sexualized(combined with her actual dialogue being closer to a dominatrix, which, while Samus was definitely a strong woman in how her characterization was designed and applied, although more with body language than dialogue at the time of her games, which made the sudden voice jarring and felt somewhat out of character to many). Some did get heat for "apparently"(which is only maybe true in one case of Toon Link replacing Young Link, and that's only really a viable theory, not even confirmed) replacing others too(Lucario for Mewtwo, Ike for Roy were the other ones. Neither were the case.)

Also, I want to correct you on your Capcom points. Capcom Japan owns MegaMan. Capcom USA owns Ryu. They are actually different companies, although obviously connected. Related, DLC isn't any more special than the others, but DLC also is viewed differently among the fans because they have to pay extra for characters. They can easily be more controversial if it someone they didn't want. Some already raised an eyebrow that "Capcom"(do note it's again, two different companies) got 2 characters. Some even forget Bayonetta is owned by Sega, and see her under Platinum Games(who did create her, and did make the original game, but Sega still owns the character).

Lastly, while I agree that Yoshi is a Yoshi rep now, Smash 4 already showed that he doesn't necessarily have to be as separated from the Mario franchise on the roster to make sense in Sakurai's eyes. He always did treat Yoshi, Wario, and oddly enough DK(despite originating at the same time as Mario, only showing they have the same universe/are connected) as Mario sub-series. Not counting how they're all near each other(bar the clone corner), he didn't want Yoshi separated from Mario's set of characters. I disagree with how he did it, but that's what he did. When he was put in the roster placement, it was still in order of major appearance, so he came after the rest of the regular Mario characters before the new generation of them(Bowser Jr. and Rosalina). If you're not aware, many did find this jarring since he was treated as a unique series from Smash 64 onwards.

Last thing I want to say, though; For the purpose of Smash Bros., a character series' rep depends entirely on their symbol. This is why Mii Fighters is treated as a Smash Bros. representation. Part of it is obviously because they're the new Fighting team, but the other is that their moveset is entirely created as a SSB thing. They don't represent the various Wii series at all, beyond the fact they're Miis. They weren't designed that way. Simply put, you should realize that nearly every character will still be a representation of the series their symbol shows. This can obviously vary in execution. Ness doesn't actually have a lot of his own moves, but he sure represents Earthbound's psi skills well due to his specials(which covers moves his team in Earthbound uses). Series will multiple reps(say, Mario) focus more on what that character does normally, instead of stuff concentrated on what happens in their games overall(as noted with the Earthbound point). Earthbound/Mother only had 2 reps, and Lucas followed the same design style as Ness, which is to use various Psi from his party members, less so from himself only. They are clearly meant to show off stuff from the games themselves, not so much what they normally can do. Mario's moves, on the other hand, are stuff he actually does. Ganondorf is a perfect example of it being unique in execution. While he did originate as a clone, that also did a lot of what he was capable of in return. He was actually a pretty brutal physical character with magic in OOT, his artwork even depicting him attempting to punch Link with an overhead strike(which is basically his Forward Air attack, something Falcon doesn't have. Likewise, Ganondorf's design in Smash is a represented of what the Triforce of Power can completely do, which is increase the power of the user. It's not just "turn into Ganon", which is only just one ability, and that's only due to storyline reasons that need a spoiler to understand. Ganondorf is a powerful magic user. Using magic to increase the power of your moves is actually a very reasonable ability that fits him pretty well. Obviously he was still a clone due to circumstance, even being the only reason he got in. what he was about, murderous power).

Long post, but make sure to look at every unique point. They all note some issues with your roster. And I won't be getting entirely into your other various choices, just explaining a lot about what Smash is designed like, so you understand some points of the official roster selections more.

There's lots of third parties with a handful of games in Nintendo consoles. Does that mean they deserve to be in as much as Sonic (who has an extended rivalry with Mario), Mega Man (a fitting character best known for his 15-ish game in Nintendo consoles), and Banjo & Kazooie (who basically is a Nintendo character from a critically acclaimed series)?

This is just your opinion.

This maybe true, but Isaac gets into my roster purely out of process of elimination. You know something's wrong when your competition is Geno, Slippy, and Adolph Hitler.

My roster is an ideal roster not a likely one.

This is kinda my point.

You didn't even read my posts, did you?

How about an Advance Wars character? The series was quite big once, and it had more games than Golden Sun.

Being such a small series (I don't count Battalion Wars or the Japan-only games), Advance Wars really needs a protagonist, which it doesn't have. Project M chose Sami of all characters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There's lots of third parties with a handful of games in Nintendo consoles. Does that mean they deserve to be in as much as Sonic (who has an extended rivalry with Mario), Mega Man (a fitting character best known for his 15-ish game in Nintendo consoles), and Banjo & Kazooie (who basically is a Nintendo character from a critically acclaimed series)?

Banjo-Kazooie is nowhere even close to Sonic or MegaMan and is even lower tier than Snake is. So I don't see your point here either. History with Nintendo =/= Iconic. There's far more iconic Rare characters. Banjo-Kazooie had a small moment of fame but has not stood out even close to as much as Snake, who from an iconic standpoint, is leagues above that duo, and absolutely in MegaMan, Pac-Man, Sonic, and Ryu's ballpark. Hell, Rayman is well above B&K in importance and iconicness too. It has two games on Nintendo, but it didn't stand the test of time or become iconic to gaming as a whole. Frankly, Rare only had two game series that actually are iconic, which is Battletoads and Killer Instinct. They both severely helped the genre and defined things. I'm not counting DK stuff because that falls under Nintendo, but you can go with that too(and I"m talking about 3rd party too).

This is just your opinion.

This would help more if you bothered to quote my exact paragraphs instead of the whole thing. What specif points are my opinion? I was talking about the actual facts of what went on.

This maybe true, but Isaac gets into my roster purely out of process of elimination. You know something's wrong when your competition is Geno, Slippy, and Adolph Hitler.

...If you need to play the Hitler card, you need a way more useful argument. Also, both Geno and Slippy are currently more notable than Isaac is lately anyway, so I don't know what your point is anymore.

My roster is an ideal roster not a likely one.

Even so, you're still actually talking about things that aren't true. For instance, Snake has more games on Nintendo than Banjo & Kazooie does. History-wise, he should win too. So I don't know where you get the idea that a Rare series with only two hit games(and one mediocre game that's not on Nintendo) is somehow more notable than a long-going franchise with a highly iconic protagonist. There's really no way around the fact Snake is way more iconic than Banjo & Kazooie ever were. Hell, they're only barely recognizable... to n64 fans. That is my actual point. They aren't actually iconic. They're from a soemwhat known series that is memorable to a single console's set of fans. They just plain aren't iconic. They didn't stand multiple generations. They didn't help define jack all. They were just a very good game that deserves praise for what it did at the time, but that's all it did. And it didn't set anything in stone for later games. Battletoads did, albeit I admit I can't remember exactly what it defined. I know that it's iconic as hell, but I think it was the first truly defining beat 'em up. I never actually much played, so I can't really say much about it(and yes, I do own the n64 B&K games, for the record). Killer Instinct was the official game to first define combos(they were a glitch in the Street Fighter series, and thanks to KI, were able to continue to make combos even better than before). It also defined the well known Combo Breaker, and the Announcer Chatter(which didn't actually become a thing till after Killer Instinct).

This is kinda my point.

What is your point? You didn't quote any specific text, just everything. So I don't know exactly what you're replying to. Please multi-quote my posts before actually replying to them so I can properly reply to what you actually mean. This isn't helping me understand you better.

You didn't even read my posts, did you?

Only bits and pieces. I'm not rating your roster. I'm calling you out on some incorrect information. Two different things.

 

[LunchmanJ]

Banjo-Kazooie is nowhere even close to Sonic or MegaMan and is even lower tier than Snake is. So I don't see your point here either. History with Nintendo =/= Iconic. There's far more iconic Rare characters. Banjo-Kazooie had a small moment of fame but has not stood out even close to as much as Snake, who from an iconic standpoint, is leagues above that duo, and absolutely in MegaMan, Pac-Man, Sonic, and Ryu's ballpark. Hell, Rayman is well above B&K in importance and iconicness too. It has two games on Nintendo, but it didn't stand the test of time or become iconic to gaming as a whole. Frankly, Rare only had two game series that actually are iconic, which is Battletoads and Killer Instinct. They both severely helped the genre and defined things. I'm not counting DK stuff because that falls under Nintendo, but you can go with that too(and I"m talking about 3rd party too).


This would help more if you bothered to quote my exact paragraphs instead of the whole thing. What specif points are my opinion? I was talking about the actual facts of what went on.


...If you need to play the Hitler card, you need a way more useful argument. Also, both Geno and Slippy are currently more notable than Isaac is lately anyway, so I don't know what your point is anymore.


Even so, you're still actually talking about things that aren't true. For instance, Snake has more games on Nintendo than Banjo & Kazooie does. History-wise, he should win too. So I don't know where you get the idea that a Rare series with only two hit games(and one mediocre game that's not on Nintendo) is somehow more notable than a long-going franchise with a highly iconic protagonist. There's really no way around the fact Snake is way more iconic than Banjo & Kazooie ever were. Hell, they're only barely recognizable... to n64 fans. That is my actual point. They aren't actually iconic. They're from a soemwhat known series that is memorable to a single console's set of fans. They just plain aren't iconic. They didn't stand multiple generations. They didn't help define jack all. They were just a very good game that deserves praise for what it did at the time, but that's all it did. And it didn't set anything in stone for later games. Battletoads did, albeit I admit I can't remember exactly what it defined. I know that it's iconic as hell, but I think it was the first truly defining beat 'em up. I never actually much played, so I can't really say much about it(and yes, I do own the n64 B&K games, for the record). Killer Instinct was the official game to first define combos(they were a glitch in the Street Fighter series, and thanks to KI, were able to continue to make combos even better than before). It also defined the well known Combo Breaker, and the Announcer Chatter(which didn't actually become a thing till after Killer Instinct).


What is your point? You didn't quote any specific text, just everything. So I don't know exactly what you're replying to. Please multi-quote my posts before actually replying to them so I can properly reply to what you actually mean. This isn't helping me understand you better.

Why should I bother to repeat my posts to someone that won't fully read them? All the answers to your questions are on my posts. Each paragraph of my post goes with each paragraph of your post. Isaac is way more requested than Geno or Slippy.

 

[Ura]

Being such a small series (I don't count Battalion Wars or the Japan-only games), Advance Wars really needs a protagonist, which it doesn't have. Project M chose Sami of all characters.

Why not? They're all apart of the same franchise. I mean you can make the argument for Battalion Wars given how different it is from the core series but the Japan-only games are absolutely apart of the franchise.

And Advance Wars does have a central protagonist. He's the dude in my avatar.

How about an Advance Wars character? The series was quite big once, and it had more games than Golden Sun.

Yes indeed. Unfortunately the series has been catch-22'd to oblivion and a new Advance Wars game isn't going to happen until like 2020 at the earliest (if we're being realistic here) and characters only get in Smash if they're relevant or really REALLY popular.

The only way I could see an AW character in Smash is if Andy gets in as a Retro character in the next game. And even then chances of that are very slim which sucks given how much I love this series.

 

[LunchmanJ]

Why not? They're all apart of the same franchise. I mean you can make the argument for Battalion Wars given how different it is from the core series but the Japan-only games are absolutely apart of the franchise.

And Advance Wars does have a central protagonist. He's the dude in my avatar.

Yes indeed. Unfortunately the series has been catch-22'd to oblivion and a new Advance Wars game isn't going to happen until like 2020 at the earliest (if we're being realistic here) and characters only get in Smash if they're relevant or really REALLY popular.

The only way I could see an AW character in Smash is if Andy gets in as a Retro character in the next game. And even then chances of that are very slim which sucks given how much I love this series.

This is hard to argue, but I guess your logic seems more right than mine.

Eh. Andy's more of a mascot, and mascots only appear in more art... But wait, being a mascot, Andy is the first character exposed to newcomers and is thus more memorable, so I guess you are right. (I contradicted myself to show you my thought process).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Why should I bother to repeat my posts to someone that won't fully read them? All the answers to your questions are on my posts. Each paragraph of my post goes with each paragraph of your post. Isaac is way more requested than Geno or Slippy.

To note, when I read "Snake has no big history with Nintendo", I read it as "he has no history with Nintendo". I was blatantly correcting you on that.

Most of it was correcting a lot of your incorrect information. It was partially based around your roster, and I did read your posts. I just wasn't replying to them specifically. I already showed why I vastly disagree with your roster's philosophy, but it's not going into again anyway. I already explained nearly all of it in my giant post.

Only thing I didn't say is that I disagree on two major fronts; the idea that different movesets are irrelevant(these are a big deal and people like characters for both their movesets and who they are), and that the same character is not worth adding(it fits partially into the moveset potential, but that's part of why they absolutely are a good idea to add. The reality is, people recognize characters in more than one form. They're not important because of one version entirely. There's unique characters. Some have similarities due to being clones, but not all). I don't think it actually matters if it's the same person or not at all. What matters is what makes them fun to play. For a similar reason, I do think you should keep the series symbols the same as the official Smash games, as it's more accurate in the long run and makes for way better roster design. Obviously Smash 4's roster was inconsistent with its series, for development reasons, of course(it had 1st Generation Mario Characters, Yoshi, 2nd Generation Mario Characters, Wario, DK characters, then the rest of the regular roster, the clone corner, 3rd parties, Mii Fighters, then DLC in order of release). Honestly, people already thought the final roster leak was fake because of the fact Yoshi wasn't after the Mario characters. So it matters a lot more than you think when it comes to a series rep. Also, when a character is added to Smash, if they have nothing alike of what they've done in their own games at all, or even their artwork, they're actually a Smash original. The only characters to do this are the Mii Fighters(that are playable, besides of course technically Giga Bowser), and the reason they all originally had the Smash symbol, not some other one. Giga Bowser only kept the Mushroom Symbol due to being a Final Smash, but had the Smash symbol in his first appearance.

So you didn't fix series representation. You basically weakened the amount of series in Smash itself over for... whatever reason. It was kind of vague, so eh.

Also, for the record, Sakurai wanted to add Geno to Smash because of the vast requests. This is the reason he went and secured a Mii Fighter costume. It was solely due to requests. He even specified that. He has never actually suggested that Slippy and Isaac are heavily requested, so I wouldn't put too much stock in the idea that they are far more requested than Geno. We only know that Geno's requests actually affected Smash itself. While the others didn't. Is it possible the frog and psnergy user had more requests? Maybe. But the actual results of the DLC imply otherwise, which is the only real data we have on it. The Smash poll actually has quite a ton of character requests. And many of them were realized into Mii Fighter costumes, with one becoming a DLC character. The ones we know were vast got results by Sakurai, so those are the only ones you can say for sure were heavily requested. Unless you can easily quote an average of tons of polls, it's probably the case that Isaac and Slippy are a vocal minority, not nearly a giant set of requests.

 

[Deleted member]

You know something's wrong when your competition is Geno, Slippy, and Adolph Hitler.

It's at this point you lost any sort of credibility and should be promptly ignored as a troll.

Even worse than someone who randomly brings up Hitler for a point that makes just about as much sense in context as out of it, someone who can't even spell "Adolf" right.

 

[LunchmanJ]

It's at this point you lost any sort of credibility and should be promptly ignored as a troll.

I used bad examples. Kill me or something.

 

[A Distant Demon]

This conversation is officially over.


The fact I have to come to this thread so often to end conversations does not bode well for this thread's future.

 

[N3ON]

dont put isaac in the same category as slippy plz


sorry zebei but they put isaac in the same category as slippy, you get it :3