Dr. Mario

[Ghirahilda]

TODAY DR. LUIGI WAS RELEASED IN JAPAN! CAN WE EXPECT SOMETHING FROM THIS?

 

[FalKoopa]

TODAY DR. LUIGI WAS RELEASED IN JAPAN! CAN WE EXPECT SOMETHING FROM THIS?

No. We got nothing.

 

[Ghirahilda]

No. We got nothing.

At least we got Ashley assist trophy!

 

[Cpt.]

TODAY DR. LUIGI WAS RELEASED IN JAPAN! CAN WE EXPECT SOMETHING FROM THIS?

Haha. Nice hope, but I guess Nintendo's year old Luigi fell short.

 

[MasterofMonster]

Not much talk about Doctor Mario. I can understand why, I guess he is kinda the least wanted Melee character back (well, him or Young Link). But I miss Doctor Mario. D:

I can see Mario having him as a alt costume, but that wouldn't change his Special (to Super Vitamins), so it would be kinda... odd. ._. So I don't expect any Dr Mario in Smash 4.

*sad*

 

[SuperSmashBrother]

As far as I see Dr. mario making it in SSB4 is as an alternate costume for Mario. Maybe a background character or a stage hazard probably too.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

or a stage hazard probably too.

Doc being a stage hazard?

How would that work?

 

[MasterofMonster]

@ Swamp Sensei
Simple.

The Stage is basically the game 'Doctor Mario', but without the walls. Doctor Mario stands at the top, tossing Super Vitamins. There, stage hazzard. ^^

Would still prefer him playable. He may have been the cloniest of clones, but I loved being able to play as the Doc.

 

[SuperSmashBrother]

I don

Doc being a stage hazard?

How would that work?

i dont know lol. Maybe he can throw pills or something. But I would rather have him as an alternate costume

 

[Deleted member]

@ Swamp Sensei
Simple.

The Stage is basically the game 'Doctor Mario', but without the walls. Doctor Mario stands at the top, tossing Super Vitamins. There, stage hazzard. ^^

Would still prefer him playable. He may have been the cloniest of clones, but I loved being able to play as the Doc.

.....I would actually love this stage.

We are the viruses.

 

[MasterofMonster]

.....I would actually love this stage.

We are the viruses.

Haha, thank you. It would be neat :D I mean, the Doc deserves me reveng after his cut, doesn't he?

 

[Deleted member]

Haha, thank you. It would be neat :D I mean, the Doc deserves me reveng after his cut, doesn't he?

That he does.

And occasionally, Dr. Luigi shows up instead.
Which means dealing with the L-Pills.

 

[MasterofMonster]

That he does.

And occasionally, Dr. Luigi shows up instead.
Which means dealing with the L-Pills.

Why did I say 'me reveng'? That's nothing. D:

And well, if there are clones this time, I can see Doctor Luigi, actually. With, yeah, L-Pills. It would be neat, but I prefer Doctor Mario. More Classic.

 

[Deleted member]

Why did I say 'me reveng'? That's nothing. D:

And well, if there are clones this time, I can see Doctor Luigi, actually. With, yeah, L-Pills. It would be neat, but I prefer Doctor Mario. More Classic.

Well, I meant in regards to the stage idea.

Dr. Mario normally serves as the hazard, but occasionally, he'll be on vacation, so Dr. Luigi fills in for him.

 

[MasterofMonster]

Well, I meant in regards to the stage idea.

Dr. Mario normally serves as the hazard, but occasionally, he'll be on vacation, so Dr. Luigi fills in for him.

Ooh... sorry, I had the dumb. Yes, that would be awesome, then. ^^ And the viruses better appear in some form. Not a fan of the viruses in Doctor Luigi, though.

 

[SwayneGang]

Here's an idea: Alternate costume. The Wii Fit Trainer has one. Maybe Mario could have it, too.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's an idea: No.

I don't want to play as Mario in a lab coat, I want to play as Dr. Mario. As in, his altercations from Mario intact (with additional altercations where reasonable, such as an entirely brand new technique in lieu of F.L.U.D.D.)

If that isn't an option, then don't add him at all.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Interesting comparison video. So how did the Doc play differently to Mario?

 

[Speculator]

If that isn't an option, then don't add him at all.

That's an outrageous thing to say. The differences between Mario & Dr. Mario in Melee were marginal. Fundamentally they were the exact same character with different modifiers. It's unreasonable to think a character like that could ever be included in SSB again, taking up a whole roster spot when space is already seemingly so precious. A model swap for Mario and his fireballs/cape achieves almost everything that Doc did in Melee without clogging up the roster (which has already gone to five Mario characters) and it would be unfair to deny people that just because you'd rather see him take a seperate slot again.

 

[Deleted member]

That's an outrageous thing to say. The differences between Mario & Dr. Mario in Melee were marginal. Fundamentally they were the exact same character with different modifiers. It's unreasonable to think a character like that could ever be included in SSB again, taking up a whole roster spot when space is already seemingly so precious. A model swap for Mario and his fireballs/cape achieves almost everything that Doc did in Melee without clogging up the roster (which has already gone to five Mario characters) and it would be unfair to deny people that just because you'd rather see him take a seperate slot again.

If you actually played as Doc, you would know how much a disgrace merely making him a costume with minor aesthetic changes is.

There's a reason why we preferred playing as him to regular Mario, and it had nothing to do with "ERMAGHERD HE'S IN A LAB COAT".
We preferred how he played in comparison to Mario, something that cannot be achieved through a costume. You say the differences were marginal; however, they were enough to give him his own flair.

-Neutral attacks 1 to 3 are slower and more damaging.
-Side Tilt has more knockback but less damage.
-Up Tilt gives more damage and knockback, but has specific trajectories (opponents in front get sent forward, opponents above get sent upward). Mario's is better for setting up combos.
-Down Tilt sends foes behind him with slightly more damage. Mario's keeps foes in front of him.
-Dash attack lasts slightly longer and doesn't weaken, sends opponents in random trajectory. Mario's sends opponents diagonally behind him and weakens over time.
-Forward Smash has less range but no sourspot (so set damage). It does less damage than the sweetspot on Mario's while giving more knockback.
-Up Smash is slightly faster and more damaging than Mario's, but does less knockback on grounded foes (while more knockback on aerial foes). It also spikes grounded foes.
-Down Smash does the same damage on both hits and is slightly more damaging than the first hit of Mario's.
-Neutral Air is an inverted sex kick. It gets stronger the longer his leg is out. Mario's is a regular sex kick that gets weaker the longer his leg is out.
-Forward Air is NOT A METEOR SMASH. Mario's is. Also, it has a sourspot, unlike Mario's.
-Back Air is less damaging, has a semi-spike trajectory and presumably has higher knockback (Mario's knockback isn't recorded at this time).
-Up Air is less damaging and presumably has higher knockback (Like above, Mario's isn't recorded).
-Down Air has an extra hit and is slightly slower from what I remember (need to compare the two again).

Grabs and throws, I don't know what difference there is other than knockback, so I can't say anything there.
And Specials, those differences should be clear already.

As for other properties:
-Higher air speed
-Cannot wall jump
-Heavier (PAL only)

Some info may be outdated now, namely the parts about Mario's not being recorded; haven't checked if they were yet.

Also, Dr. Mario with F.L.U.D.D.? Yeah, no.
But, if you still think that Dr. Mario as an aesthetically different Mario is still the best route, then we should have Roy be an aesthetically different Marth costume with some fire effects on some attacks.


EDIT: Actually, scratch that part about the Specials in the quote I posted; it seems you don't understand how they're different other than "he shoots pills instead of fireballs and his cape is white and not yellow".
I'll get into that later today when I have time.

EDIT 2:
-Megavitamins bounce higher, fall faster, and do more damage than Mario's Fireballs.
-Super Sheet has more horizontal range and less vertical range than Cape, does slightly more damage, and has less lag. However, it only lifts Dr. Mario in the air once as opposed to Mario's Cape, making it practically useless in recovery.
-Doc's Super Jump Punch does more damage, but hits less times. It can be cancelled while on the ground.
-Dr. Tornado hits less times than Mario Tornado, does more damage, and sends foes in a random trajectory on the final hit while Mario Tornado sends foes straight up. Also, in opposite to Mario, all hitboxes except the first one (which is just the hands) are full body; only the last hitbox on Mario's is full body. It also takes more rapid button imput to have Dr. Mario rise than Mario, leading to more recovery issues.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If Dr. Mario were to return, I wouldn't expect him to remain completely the same. He'll probably be differentiated to a level on par with Falco.

 

[Speculator]

You say the differences were marginal; however, they were enough to give him his own flair.

I don't agree. Everything you listed is Mario, with modifiers. Nothing Doc had was his own flair, except perhaps ironically his appearance and his pills. An attack working slightly differently or his running speed being slightly slower isn't a special unique touch that only Doc could bring, and it certainly isn't worth a roster slot. On a technical level, Doc is different to Mario. That's not enough and to the wider audience, he is merely Mario in a lab coat - exactly what he would be if he were a costume swap.

Besides, SSB4 is a different game. Mario is already going to work differently than he did in Brawl. His moves will have slight tweaks and some of his attacks will execute slightly differently, just like the change between Melee and Brawl (without the drastic change to his down special). Since he's going to feel different to play in SSB4 than in Brawl anyway, I simply don't see the value in having two Marios on the roster.

But, if you still think that Dr. Mario as an aesthetically different Mario is still the best route, then we should have Roy be an aesthetically different Marth costume with some fire effects on some attacks.

I've no idea where you got that from. Roy and Marth are not the same person; Roy isn't Marth wearing different clothes. I appreciate that some people liked him in Melee, but he essentially served the purpose of detracting from the uniqueness of Marth as a fighter. He's better left out of the equation altogether.

SSB4 is a completely different landscape to Melee. Clones are long since a thing of the past. They're not pushed for time when it comes to beefing out the roster. All of the characters they've decided to introduce so far are bringing some totally new elements to the series. A character like Doc doesn't fit as his own slot anymore. If he were an alt costume, then at least it would make the people who did like him for being "Medical Mario" happy. You might not be one of them, but they exist, and they can be appeased without any real detriment to the roster.

 

[Sahfarry]

I'm sure that it's been established that people would like Dr. Mario as an alternate costume over a character. But, do you think Dr. Luigi would be a good Alt. Costume for Luigi? I personally don't want that as his alt, as there are other options (heck, I prefer Mr. L, and I don't even know where that's from). It would add more variety. What do you guys think? Or would you prefer Dr. Mario as a separate char.?

 

[Deleted member]

I don't agree. Everything you listed is Mario, with modifiers. Nothing Doc had was his own flair, except perhaps ironically his appearance and his pills. An attack working slightly differently or his running speed being slightly slower isn't a special unique touch that only Doc could bring, and it certainly isn't worth a roster slot. On a technical level, Doc is different to Mario. That's not enough and to the wider audience, he is merely Mario in a lab coat - exactly what he would be if he were a costume swap.

To those that legitimately care for who Dr. Mario was in Melee do not agree. They are the only ones that matter in factoring a future in Smash.
So no, Dr. Mario being merely Mario with no changes whatsoever except on an aesthetic level is worse than having no Dr. Mario at all.

Besides, SSB4 is a different game. Mario is already going to work differently than he did in Brawl. His moves will have slight tweaks and some of his attacks will execute slightly differently, just like the change between Melee and Brawl (without the drastic change to his down special). Since he's going to feel different to play in SSB4 than in Brawl anyway, I simply don't see the value in having two Marios on the roster.

By default, Dr. Mario would already have to have a brand-new Down Special because there is absolutely no logic in giving him F.L.U.D.D., and if Falco and Ganondorf are anything to go by, the differences would have been made more apparent.
Since Dr. Mario represents a entirely different canon to the "main" Mario franchise (going by Miyamoto's words about Dr. Mario potentially being non-canon), there is also the excuse of making him fight more like "Dr. Mario" would rather than "Mario as Dr. Mario" would, bringing in more nods to the critically acclaimed puzzle franchise and less ass-pulling like the "Super Sheet", which exists only for full-clone purposes.

As for "value" in having two Marios, I actually agree that there is no need for two. But I also see no value in having two Links regardless of what Toon Link's fans say, yet Toon Link is back. Dr. Mario coming back wouldn't be any worse. At least Dr. Mario isn't just "Mario as a ******".

I've no idea where you got that from. Roy and Marth are not the same person; Roy isn't Marth wearing different clothes. I appreciate that some people liked him in Melee, but he essentially served the purpose of detracting from the uniqueness of Marth as a fighter. He's better left out of the equation altogether.

Roy not being Marth is irrelevant.
The main point was that Roy being nothing like how he was in Melee and just being a Marth costume with some attacks that do fire damage but have no difference otherwise is just as degrading and idiotic as Dr. Mario having nothing that made him Dr. Mario. Which is not just "lul pillz" as you seem to think. Megavitamins having the same exact trajectory as the Fireballs are hardly Megavitamins at all.

SSB4 is a completely different landscape to Melee. Clones are long since a thing of the past. They're not pushed for time when it comes to beefing out the roster. All of the characters they've decided to introduce so far are bringing some totally new elements to the series. A character like Doc doesn't fit as his own slot anymore. If he were an alt costume, then at least it would make the people who did like him for being "Medical Mario" happy. You might not be one of them, but they exist, and they can be appeased without any real detriment to the roster.

Whether Dr. Mario "deserves" to return separate or not is not the issue here.
What is is whether or not being a mere aesthetic costume is an insult to those who actually played as Dr. Mario, which it is.

Neither case happened with Brawl (though he was planned to return), and those that went without a costume managed. They can do the same when it happens again. While the ones that actually care about Dr. Mario for his style (the part that matters) can manage without him as a character again while not being forced to put up with bull**** like a costume.

And if clones were long since a thing of the past, why do we still have Toon Link?

 

[Croph]

Personally, I'd rather have a full playable Doc, than as a costume. It may just be me, but I do view Doc as something more than a "Mario in a lab coat" -- he's his own character to me. I've said this before, but I'll say it again:

My pipe dream is for him to return fully de-cloned. Perhaps using megavitamins (also in the shape of puzzle blocks), viruses, and various medical producers/maneuvers in mean of attack. Make him a more comedic fighter, kinda like WFT. However, I know that's never going to happen, and him being a semi-clone will take less time and resources, so I think that's the better route.

If Doc returns, I don't see Sakurai spending time and resources on him. I think he'll pick the more easy route by making him a semi-clone. Though, I do believe the potential is there for a unique moveset -- one that revolves around megavitamins, puzzle blocks, viruses, and various comical attacks. I'd really love it if Doc represents his own series. I don't think it's that much of a stretch, though I understand not all may agree.

And if clones were long since a thing of the past, why do we still have Toon Link?

Because of Sakurai's willfulness. Case in point: Toon Link's Dojo page. "Those who have played as Link should enjoy playing as Toon Link, too. As a general rule, their special moves are the same." --> transitioned right into Smash 4 as well. If Sakurai changed his mind about Villager being unfeasible to fight, why can't he do the same with his Toon Link "rule"? He probably has his reasons, though sometimes I really don't understand the man... a lot of people don't.

There's always the possibility of getting semi-clones. Not that I think it's very likely, but the possibility is there. I'm wondering if Sakurai is going to reveal all the unique newcomers first, and will save ones that are less unique or a Lucas/Wolf for later.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Dr. Mario were to return, I wouldn't expect him to remain completely the same. He'll probably be differentiated to a level on par with Falco.

Falco? No...

Best bet would be like Toon Link, but still more similar to Mario than Toon Link is to Link due to Dr.Mario's size. And his speed and jumping would also be much closer to Mario's.

After Rosalina, am not 100% opposed to Dr.Mario anymore but am not exactly excited about him either. Sure, the more the merrier but am not expecting that sort of mentality this time. Would also be upset if Dr.Mario made it back, but say Roy didn't (not to speak of Mewtwo).

 

[schavira]

The Little Mac alternate costume gives me hope.

 

[Munky33]

The Little Mac alternate costume gives me hope.

You and me both!

 

[Deleted member]

I have hope......that it doesn't happen.

Separate character or bust.

 

[Swift Fox]

But it'd be like letting WarioWare and classic Wario taking up two slots.

 

[Curious Villager]

I know I'm probably going to get shred to pieces for saying this but....

What if, with the moveset costumization, you will have the ability to recreate Doctor Mario with Mario? With the Pills, thunder hand and the tornado and everything? And to top that off, give Mario his doctors outfit as an alternate costume? Of course assuming they will bring costumizability to such lengths which may or may not be likely. So far they just seem to be slightly modified versions of existing special moves and all...

Unless it has already been brought up....

 

[Smash G]

Alternate Costume. Hopefully nothing more.

 

[Xigger]

I know I'm probably going to get shred to pieces for saying this but....

What if, with the moveset costumization, you will have the ability to recreate Doctor Mario with Mario? With the Pills, thunder hand and the tornado and everything? And to top that off, give Mario his doctors outfit as an alternate costume? Of course assuming they will bring costumizability to such lengths which may or may not be likely. So far they just seem to be slightly modified versions of existing special moves and all...

Unless it has already been brought up....

I could see the pills as a custom special move and the lab coat as an alternate costume. Don't know if I should expect it or not. I think I'd love to see Mario in his Delphino summer clothes just as much.

 

[Kind Dedede]

I know I'm probably going to get shred to pieces for saying this but....

What if, with the moveset costumization, you will have the ability to recreate Doctor Mario with Mario? With the Pills, thunder hand and the tornado and everything? And to top that off, give Mario his doctors outfit as an alternate costume? Of course assuming they will bring costumizability to such lengths which may or may not be likely. So far they just seem to be slightly modified versions of existing special moves and all...

Unless it has already been brought up....

Something I would agree with, would be nice to do so to free up the character slot. Granted only local multiplayers will see it but still better than nothing.

Dr Mario was my main from Melee, would love to see him return but alas Mario is just not the same.

 

[BadTurtle]

I'd be happy with him as an alternate costume, I think it's safe to say he's not one of the most missed characters from Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

But it'd be like letting WarioWare and classic Wario taking up two slots.

Or like letting two versions of Link taking up two slots....wait a minute.....

Or like letting Samus in armor and out of armor taking up two slots....hmmm.....

 

[Wyoming]

If they really went that far to a) have a Doctor Mario costume and b) have his moves as customization then they should put him on the roster instead. It would strike me as a bit odd to have a cut veteran return with so much detail yet he'd be limited (remember Doc's smash moves wouldn't change with custom moves) and can't be used online against scrubs (which is where I'll spend most of my Smashing, IF the mode is playable that is) due to being a custom character.

 

[N7S]

Do what Project M did and have one of Mario's costumes be Dr. Mario and instead of him throwing fire balls. He throws the pills.

 

[Makaronileo]

How did dr.mario get in before Toad in meele? please tell me someone.

 

[Oatmeal.]

Though it may be disappointing to some people, including myself, I have a strong feeling that Dr. Mario will return simply as an alternate costume for Mario. It's a slap in the face to Melee players, but that is more than likely the way it will roll out.