Dr. Mario

[loslobos]

With the stage, its clear Sakurai is aware of Paper Mario, and a lot of people wanted him, but Dr. Mario was the chosen 2nd Mario. Did this affect Paper Mario's inclusion?

 

[Morbi]

Dr. Mario was originally intended to be a costume; however, there were inherent differences in his play-style and move-set that were established about decade ago, therefore for the purpose of consistent battle-records, he was included among Lucina and Dark Pit. They also indirectly increase the roster count from what it would have been in the event that they were still costumes without different properties. The pills are a prominent aspect of Dr. Mario's character and he is never seen using F.L.U.D.D. hence there were overt differences as per his requirements illuminated in this article...

http://www.gonintendo.com/s/233268-...-bros-wii-u-3ds-why-chrom-didn-t-make-the-cut

Rosalina or Bowser Jr. had more influence pertaining to Paper Mario's non-inclusion. However, I am certain that most would assert that Paper Mario would represent his own series. In that event, Dr. Mario did not affect Paper Mario in the slightest. It is also important to note that Dr. Mario does not represent the Dr. Mario franchise either. So, again, that is why I insinuated that Rosalina or Bowser Jr. are more relevant scapegoats.

Lastly, Dr. Mario is way better than Paper Mario and I hope he was chosen over Paper Mario despite evidence to the contrary.

 

[Jdaster64]

@ Topic title: In the sense that Dr. Mario is in and Paper Mario is not, yes.

In seriousness, though, I'd say that it's a possibility, though I'm not convinced he would have been considered regardless of Doc's inclusion, Paper Mario stage notwithstanding. That being said, as much as I love Doc and can totally see why he was included, Paper Mario has a ton more potential to differentiate himself, and I'd take him over Doc in a heartbeat. Not to say they couldn't coexist; Doc brings a different, Melee-era take on Mario's moveset, whereas Paper Mario's would almost certainly be completely different (probably more similar to Game & Watch's than anything); they're completely different in function and form, despite being the same in name (and I can see how that might be a stigma to some people).

 

[StarLight42]

I originally wanted Paper Mario in SSB4, and supported his inclusion a lot. However, as soon as I saw the Doc, I knew he wouldn't be in the game.

 

[DonkaFjord]

I'm making a very simple point here. That yeah, they could have claimed to be the rightful owners, but that doesn't mean that when the dust settles they are going to let bygones be bygones and let Nintendo get even more freebees. When they fought so hard to get Tetris and missed out on so much lost revenue from Nintendo in the meantime, that they will probably be extremely reluctant to have Nintendo get their IP for free. You can't claim that Nintendo was shafted when they made millions off of something that was determined later to not legally be theirs.

Nintendo was so close to actually winning the debacle over Tetris since they own the most popular and best selling games under its image with over 33 million copies sold. I don't think you quite understand there were a half dozen or so companies all sold the rights to Tetris and they all got ripped off, as well as the creator (who now owns the Tetris Company and is finally getting paid for his iconic work.) I agree it won't appear outside of musical references because that is the only part of it that Nintendo rightfully owns now. I won't talk about its legalities anymore because I do not think we are fully understanding each other. I do agree that tetris appearing as a stage is improbable for the near future.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

Nintendo was so close to actually winning the debacle over Tetris since they own the most popular and best selling games under its image with over 33 million copies sold. I don't think you quite understand there were a half dozen or so companies all sold the rights to Tetris and they all got ripped off, as well as the creator (who now owns the Tetris Company and is finally getting paid for his iconic work.) I agree it won't appear outside of musical references because that is the only part of it that Nintendo rightfully owns now. I won't talk about its legalities anymore because I do not think we are fully understanding each other. I do agree that tetris appearing as a stage is improbable for the near future.

Nintendo's claim to the property was one of the loosest claims ever though, it was like a landlocked country in Africa claiming part of the Arctic. And Nintendo only helped keep it in legal limbo by making that claim so they could avoid paying royalties for what later became the rightful owner. I don't think they ever really expected to win their case. So Nintendo didn't get "screwed" when the the man who created Tetris ended up getting his due as the creator and owner of his work. Nintendo screwed him. Tetris games do get released for Nintendo consoles still but I really doubt given the history the guy is going to give Nintendo a break and loan his property for free to Smash, and I think that's kind of how 3rd party stuff gets into Smash - it is either free or not at all.

 

[Captain Soviet]

...if Dark Pit can have his own victory theme why can't Doc have one too?

Because Sakurai never worked on a Doctor Mario game.

I remember when I unlocked Dr. Mario in Melee, I was convinced he'd get some kind of bottle stage, where the viruses were platforms and the pills were either hazards or moving platforms.

 

[children's_novel]

I would have loved to see Paper Mario in Smash 4 and what his moveset would be like and what his final smash would be. I don't think that Paper Mario would really be a clone of Mario because there's a lot about Paper Mario that's unique to him. Even though I'm a little upset that Paper Mario is not in the game, I'm still really excited that I can be able to play the Doc.

 

[Bedoop]

Absol-utely NOT.
Good day.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Like I said in the Headcanons thread once, I think Doc is Mario sometime in the future, after he retired from adventuring.

Not only do his Melee trophies say that he spends large amounts of time in his lab and has a generally less active lifestyle, but his SSB4 animations, particularly his entrance and new taunts, seem to suggest a more stoic and "I've had enough" attitude compared to Regular Mario's.

Also, I don't know for sure about this one as I can't really make a direct comparison with Mario's hat in the way in his artwork, but if Smashwiki is to be believed, Doc's hair is a lighter shade. Graying, maybe?

Looks sort of like it, but I'm not entirely sure.

 

[CrossoverMan]

That's actually a very good theory. Makes more sense than the 'separate character entirely' theory or the 'everyone is a toy so it doesn't matter' theory.

 

[RedFly]

Yes, Sakurai was like "Who do i choose?! Dr. Mario or Paper Mario?!".

 

[Ravioko]

1. . . . . . 2 . . . . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . . . 6 . . . . . 7. . . 8

Which is your favourite Palette Swap for Dr. Mario

Without a doubt the black one, but the purple one also looks nice

 

[Mariohuge]

1. . . . . . 2 . . . . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . . . 6 . . . . . 7. . . 8

Which is your favourite Palette Swap for Dr. Mario

I dunno whether it's the black or purple one! I guess I'll just alternate between them when I play him.

 

[Morbi]

In my not so humble opinion, all of Dr. Mario's palettes are fantastic. I am usually hard to please regarding recolors as I am very particular, but I cannot deny any of these costumes. He has the best line-up so far. I am probably going to use the scrub-esque palettes more often than not. However, Dr. Giggles, Love Doctor and Mortician Mario (I assume that is the black one) are also great choices! Purple is my favorite color, so you know I am all about that life.

Red Mario is honestly my least favorite, but it is still a nice color, 7/8 on my intended usage is not a bad ratio.

 

[SS-bros14]

Doubt it, as clones are added because of extra character development time from what I've heard, and it'd make no since to make Paper Mario a clone since he's MUCH different than Mario.

 

[LF2K]

My theory is that Dr. Mario hails from another universe where Bowser never rose to power. Ever see Bowser in the Dr. Mario games? No, the only real villians were Rudy the Clown and Mad Scienstein. Also, there's the viruses. Perhaps Mario decided to study medicine and get his PhD to stop illness from spreading in the Mushroom Kingdom? What else could he do? There's no princess in need of saving and fixing toilets isn't nearly as prestigious as fixing patients.

I believe that Miyamoto said in an interview that Mario's medical expertise isn't exactly "legitimate". So Dr. Mario is either non-canon or Mario's not such a good doctor after all.

 

[The21stSmasher]

Hm, I doubt that...

 

[SmashBro99]

I would have loved to see Paper Mario in Smash 4 and what his moveset would be like and what his final smash would be. I don't think that Paper Mario would really be a clone of Mario because there's a lot about Paper Mario that's unique to him. Even though I'm a little upset that Paper Mario is not in the game, I'm still really excited that I can be able to play the Doc.

As if Sakurai wouldn't make Paper Mario a flat clone of Mario...rofl he's a scrublord when it comes to that.

 

[T-Donor66]

Lol why does everyone love the black outfit?

 

[BBC7]

People already know about the Nana Popo cheer which is caused by Dr. Mario and Villager. Earlier today, I was being cheered on in Mii Fighters on Classic, and I believe they were cheering "Protoman!", which I found to be quite odd. They could've been saying something else, but it really did sound like Protoman to my ears. I don't know how easily it can replicated, unless someone knows how to force the audience to cheer. Could it have been possible that Protoman was intended as a "character" skin, similar to Alph and Olimar? If so, it's a shame that they couldn't do so.

 

[DJ Arcatek]

Am I the only one who's going to rock the banana scrubs?

Yeah? ...well okay then.

 

[synesthe-sia]

Lastly, Dr. Mario is way better than Paper Mario and I hope he was chosen over Paper Mario despite evidence to the contrary.

A clone is better than someone who would be an original character?

 

[NintenRob]

He is in a pretty strange position right now.

He is a two time veteran now, but has already been cut once.
He has some different moves to Mario now, but still has a fair bit in common.

Will he be cut again? Will he return? No other smash character has been in the same position as Dr. Mario.

 

[Masonomace]

The next Smash is coming this November 21st. No I'm not kidding,5mash is a different version. If Sakurai considers Sm4sh for the 3DS & 5mash for the WiiU different versions of Super Smash Brothers, then that's that. So from that logic, yes he's 100% guaranteed.

Now if you mean SSB6, he'll most likely return imo. He was planned to be playable in Brawl, & Melee was a staple game in Smash with the good ole Doc here & now, I see him coming back to make a stand.

 

[Cyberguy64]

I hope not. I'd think by the time Smash 5/6/whatever comes out, they'll have improved the character customization and costumes to the point that you can build Dr. Mario off of Mario.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I hope not. I'd think by the time Smash 5/6/whatever comes out, they'll have improved the character customization and costumes to the point that you can build Dr. Mario off of Mario.

I think customizing every standard move is excessive to the point that it's not really something that I think they should aspire to (except for maybe Mii Fighters).

 

[Cyberguy64]

I think customizing every standard move is excessive to the point that it's not really something that I think they should aspire to (except for maybe Mii Fighters).

Nothing so excessive. Just that if you use the Doc skin, the visual effects change, and the A moves can have stat re-distribution, attack, speed, etc. That's what I'd like to see over more skin-clones, anyway. The only significant A move difference between the two is the down-A, right?

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Nothing so excessive. Just that if you use the Doc skin, the visual effects change, and the A moves can have stat re-distribution, attack, speed, etc. That's what I'd like to see over more skin-clones, anyway. The only significant A move difference between the two is the down-A, right?

...
Nair and Fair

 

[Cyberguy64]

...
Nair and Fair

No, Nair and Fair are still the same overall attacks, just with different timing and physics. Easy enough to tweak in a character editor.

But, let's not derail the thread with my negativity. I've said my piece and made my case.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

No, Nair and Fair are still the same overall attacks, just with different timing and physics. Easy enough to tweak in a character editor.

But, let's not derail the thread with my negativity. I've said my piece and made my case.

They're the same, except for the latter having entirely different properties and the former being arguably the most unique Fair in the game.
And it also raises the question of what the point is of having them as the same character. It's debatable whether or not they're even the same person, and why have the "same characters" vary so widely? It doesn't really make sense to have two characters in the same slot, rather then just giving them two different slots [except for the Koopalings, we don't need seven Bowser Jr. clones]

 

[Cyberguy64]

They're the same, except for the latter having entirely different properties and the former being arguably the most unique Fair in the game.
And it also raises the question of what the point is of having them as the same character. It's debatable whether or not they're even the same person, and why have the "same characters" vary so widely? It doesn't really make sense to have two characters in the same slot, rather then just giving them two different slots [except for the Koopalings, we don't need seven Bowser Jr. clones]

Alph and Olimar say hi. There is precident. And you've dragged me back in.

Also, most unique in that it's exactly the same as Mario's but with different physics. So unique!

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Alph and Olimar say hi. There is precident. And you've dragged me back in.

I meant for "different characters" to mean both mechanically different as well as that.
And those two don't meet the former criteria, as their capabilities are the same. Doc has been established to be different in both ways.

Also, most unique in that it's exactly the same as Mario's but with different physics. So unique!

Spoiler

 

[Dobbston]

Honestly, Dr. Mario feels like he came straight out of melee.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

I'm crossing my fingers but I think he was a last minute clone like he was in Melee.
Just came into my mind: What if he'll get cut next smash, come back in the NEXT one after that, cut, comeback, etc.?

 

[DoubleYooToo]

The game just came out, way way too early to even be thinking about this. The only Smash 4 newcomers that even existed when Brawl was released were Little Mac, Villager, Rosalina, Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt and Bowser Jr, two of those characters had only existed for a month when Brawl came out and 2 of the others gained popularity on the back of games that have come out since. To try to predict anything about the next game's roster when it's not due for at least 7 years is a very strange thing to attempt.

Though it would be amusing if he becomes the first character to leapfrog two generations of Smash. I guess it must be really hard to get an appointment.

 

[proxibomb]

Nope, reason being he was added to fill up spaces on the roster so the roster could have more variety. Think of this, Smash 4 wouldn't have Lucina, Dark Pit, and Doc if the 3DS could handle more diverse characters like Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, and possibly some other characters that have more variety than the clones in the game. I could be wrong, but that's what I think.

Who knows, maybe Sakurai will have more characters on the Wii U, which is what I'm hoping for, since the console and more power.

 

[BluePikmin11]

With importance and filler clone in mind, it's a definite yes.

 

[StarLight42]

If they give Mario back his Melee moveset I don't care if he's cut. If Mario still has FLUDD and all that trashy stuff, Dr. Mario back plz.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Nothing so excessive. Just that if you use the Doc skin, the visual effects change, and the A moves can have stat re-distribution, attack, speed, etc. That's what I'd like to see over more skin-clones, anyway. The only significant A move difference between the two is the down-A, right?

Actually....there's...quite a bit. DSmash is stronger in terms of kill power and the back hitbox is actually STRONGER than the front one, Bair has different KB growth, D-Throw has entirely different physics, their movement speeds are vastly different and their jump heights are different along with their fastfalls. Their damage values vary on a lot of moves as well. Doc's recovery and Up+B is much worse recovery wise but it has a sweetspot and only hits once like Luigi's but slightly better, Doc Tornado is back, FSmash has less range, pills have different physics...the list is pretty vast to the point of where actually playing with both side by side will yield very obvious handling differences, given that I main Mario and Doc respectively.

If you ask me he's...arguably the most developed of the clones he's lumped in with. I do see him coming back though, honestly Sakurai has a secret love for this character, he was even supposed to be in Brawl for goodness sakes! Just strange that it would be Doc, of all people.