Social Dr. Mario Social Thread - Witches? Dragons?...I've seen worse walk into my office.

[tibs7]

Thinking that at around 10ish percentage on cloud that drhrow pivot bair -> upB is a legit 30% combo!
will need to test tonight though

Also pivot timing is so hard, varies on everyone's weight...

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Thinking that at around 10ish percentage on cloud that drhrow pivot bair -> upB is a legit 30% combo!
will need to test tonight though

Also pivot timing is so hard, varies on everyone's weight...

Huh, not sure how that works, but if you can post a vid or some tips on landing it, go ahead.

Cloud IS a fast faller so he is susceptible to Doc's character specific combos (e.g. D-Throw-Bair, D-Throw-Down-B, D-Throw-Dair-Sourspot- Up B, D-Throw-Fair, etc.)

 

[MistressRemilia]

Slowly but surely getting tired of every ****** rating the Doc matchup in their character favor w/out even playing the character vs someone good at least once.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Slowly but surely getting tired of every ****** rating the Doc matchup in their character favor w/out even playing the character vs someone good at least once.

Cos Doc is like Mario but worse right?

"Mario wins 60-40, Doc loses 40-60".

 

[meleebrawler]

Cos Doc is like Mario but worse right?

"Mario wins 60-40, Doc loses 40-60".

At least pre-patch, people happily slapped disadvantaged or even ratios on Mewtwo matchups just by virtue of his poor stamina. It was like the inverse of Ganondorf matchup analysis.

It's kind of a bad habit for people to only consider a character's biggest flaw when analysing, because you don't really need experience to call it out. For Mewtwo it's his weight, Cloud his recovery, and Doc his mobility. There's more to beating him than outmaneuvering him.

 

[MonkeyArms]

At least pre-patch, people happily slapped disadvantaged or even ratios on Mewtwo matchups just by virtue of his poor stamina. It was like the inverse of Ganondorf matchup analysis.

It's kind of a bad habit for people to only consider a character's biggest flaw when analysing, because you don't really need experience to call it out. For Mewtwo it's his weight, Cloud his recovery, and Doc his mobility. There's more to beating him than outmaneuvering him.

Mewtwo wins matchups?
I didn't know mewtwo had a nuetral that works.
/sarcasm

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Mewtwo wins matchups?
I didn't know mewtwo had a nuetral that works.
/sarcasm

-_- It's not that bad. Then again, it's not like Yoshi's broken neutral right?

EDIT: I was being sarcastic about Yoshi's neutral being broken. It's highly overrated tbh.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Just worth noting that on some characters, D-Throw to Fair needs to be positioned differently. Most characters can get hit by the fist portion of the sweetspot or the tip of the fist, but others only get hit by the tip of the fist (i.e. you have to move forward when doing the combo). Very weird. Robin is a good example of this.

 

[MistressRemilia]

Starting to study & realize how amazing Tornado mixups in any kind of disadvantage states are:
Let me explain the concept further so all of you understand.
As you should know by now, Doc's Tornado versatile use allows us to cover multiple options, most notably a thrown mixup for long lasting hitbox with possibility of beating some projectiles, or an edgeguarding tool with ability to frametrap the airdodges. But i've tried something 2 differents things recently:
- Tornado after a b&b throw combo such as Dthrow PP Bair
- Tornado after a ledge jump getup read with UpAir

In these two cases, Tornado will be covering a lot of options, especially depending of your mashing or lack of mashing. The fact of retreating, despite Tornado's still high FAF allows us to have a noteworthy mixup that isn't the most optimal, but very interesting & may show more uses. I still have to do more research.

As always, feel free to share doc tricks of your own.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

Does anybody else know that you can SH Airdodge and if you buffer nair can actually get a hitboxes out before you land? I've been trying to make use of that as of late. The hitbox isn't very big but it is there, and it can be used for mix ups. Most people aren't expecting it because it doesn't seem like you can make a move after SH airdodging with Doc

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Does anybody else know that you can SH Airdodge and if you buffer nair can actually get a hitboxes out before you land? I've been trying to make use of that as of late. The hitbox isn't very big but it is there, and it can be used for mix ups. Most people aren't expecting it because it doesn't seem like you can make a move after SH airdodging with Doc

I use this all the time to get a free grab followup.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Hey guys I just placed 5th out of I think 74 today and got a couple of rather uncommon matchups streamed. (Charizard/Doc and B.J./Doc)

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Just wanted to say good luck to 2ManyCooks and Rice (assuming he goes Doc) at Genesis 3!

The brackets for reference.

Rice: C47 (Esam and Chibo are in this bracket)
2MC: F48 (Larry Lurr/DEHF is in this bracket)

https://smash.gg/tournament/genesis-3/brackets/10619/2620

 

[Jaguar360]

Just wanted to say good luck to 2ManyCooks and Rice (assuming he goes Doc) at Genesis 3!

The brackets for reference.

Rice: C47 (Esam and Chibo are in this bracket)
2MC: F48 (Larry Lurr/DEHF is in this bracket)

https://smash.gg/tournament/genesis-3/brackets/10619/2620

They both look like they'll have difficult journeys to Pools 2. :/ I think that they both can do it though. Good luck to them. Atomsk from NJ also plays Doc really well and is also at G3, so good luck to him too. He has Ryo in his pool.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

They both look like they'll have difficult journeys to Pools 2. :/ I think that they both can do it though. Good luck to them. Atomsk from NJ also plays Doc really well and is also at G3, so good luck to him too. He has Ryo in his pool.

Does he still play Doc? I haven't seen him in a while and last time I did, I think he was playing MK. Hope he brings him out.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

I want somebody to make a PM Mario skin that is Sans if that isn't a thing already.

Spoiler

So I can dunk on people.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

From the looks of it, Rice and 2MC made it to Round 2 pools (in losers). They're in the same bracket ....

https://smash.gg/tournament/genesis-3/brackets/10619/4409/17863

 

[Jaguar360]

Atomsk didn't make it with whoever he was playing though. RIP.

I don't know how I'm going to emotionally make it through these Round 2 pools. It's too much for me ;_;

 

[tibs7]

Doc has so many tough Mu's so its no surprise we didnt place well :/

Worst Mu's 70:30
Rosa
Cloud
Shiek

these are pretty common to verse in big scale tournies lol

 

[MistressRemilia]

Eeeeeh, i'd say Doc/Sheik is a bit better than that, maybe 65/35
Rosa is tough yeah, Cloud i haven't fought him too much to say
Sonic's pretty hard but i somehow find it manageable if you're on point, still a Sonic win through
We should try to develop Dthrow -> Foostool
Only been able to pull it on Marth so far, into nair & ftilt lock, into whatever punish

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

I don't know if there are any 70:30 matchups. But I think that Sheik and Cloud are not as bad as Rosalina, ZSS, Sonic or Ryu.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

Eeeeeh, i'd say Doc/Sheik is a bit better than that, maybe 65/35
Rosa is tough yeah, Cloud i haven't fought him too much to say
Sonic's pretty hard but i somehow find it manageable if you're on point, still a Sonic win through
We should try to develop Dthrow -> Foostool
Only been able to pull it on Marth so far, into nair & ftilt lock, into whatever punish

I've had much more success footstooling on characters with bigger hurtboxes, and I've got it down pretty well on most of them. Especially since most of them are also heavy/faster falling chars. I have trouble getting a falling nair lock afterward but I'm getting there

 

[A2ZOMG]

Doc has so many tough Mu's so its no surprise we didnt place well :/

Worst Mu's 70:30
Rosa
Cloud
Shiek

these are pretty common to verse in big scale tournies lol

Hardest matchups imo are Sonic and DK. It's really hard to get significant reward on Sonic, and DK's combination of range, damage, and ability to edgeguard is pretty hard to deal with.

Rosa has slight adv but it's not too bad overall when you learn that Tornado instakills Luma, and your Jab cancel game is super good on her.

Vs Cloud I believe is actually even. Doc's out of shield options are simply too good to ignore in this matchup, and your grab combos devastate him. He has to work a lot harder than you'd expect to break your defenses provided you don't let him juggle you for free too often, while you only need like 2 grabs to get him to danger percents, and then random edgeguards can spell his doom really fast.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Hardest matchups imo are Sonic and DK. It's really hard to get significant reward on Sonic, and DK's combination of range, damage, and ability to edgeguard is pretty hard to deal with.

Rosa has slight adv but it's not too bad overall when you learn that Tornado instakills Luma, and your Jab cancel game is super good on her.

Vs Cloud I believe is actually even. Doc's out of shield options are simply too good to ignore in this matchup, and your grab combos devastate him. He has to work a lot harder than you'd expect to break your defenses provided you don't let him juggle you for free too often, while you only need like 2 grabs to get him to danger percents, and then random edgeguards can spell his doom really fast.

I don't consider him Even vs. Cloud at all personally.

By no means his worst or even on the same level of things like Rosaluma or Sonic (where Rosalina just hits buttons and you have to deal because your movement is bad, or Sonic where he does Sonic things and you're a slow character), but not even. He's not going to approach you if he's playing smart, and this is where it gets annoying. You're dealing with disjoint that is entirely non-committal.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

So... there's Down-B edgeguards and Up-B edgeguards. And then there's this. ba ha ha: https://youtu.be/0ygW7QXYnGY?t=1m45s

 

[MistressRemilia]

So... there's Down-B edgeguards and Up-B edgeguards. And then there's this. ba ha ha: https://youtu.be/0ygW7QXYnGY?t=1m45s

Solid trades

 

[tibs7]

hmm ok maybe worst is rosa and sheik. I played one today and got kind of destroyed then went Link and won lmao.

Came 8th out of 136 today. lost to a sheik that airdodged my fsmash into the ground and landed underneath it, the salt was so real. i was playing so well and then i lost to a really really basic luigi. just very hard to get any momentum on him which is frustrating but i dont find it too bad.

 

[MistressRemilia]

hmm ok maybe worst is rosa and sheik. I played one today and got kind of destroyed then went Link and won lmao.

Came 8th out of 136 today. lost to a sheik that airdodged my fsmash into the ground and landed underneath it, the salt was so real. i was playing so well and then i lost to a really really basic luigi. just very hard to get any momentum on him which is frustrating but i dont find it too bad.

Still, a very honorable result for the number of entrants, congratulations.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

So 2MC got 3rd at another tournament. Haven't watched the videos yet, but it should be hype. Archive is on EdmontonGamers.

 

[Doctor_Link]

I finally got the down-b mashing glitch for the first time ever. During a really important match, too. So salt.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

I don't know how reliable this is, but Dthrow-Fair works on Jump Shulk. Might just be a training mode thing. Also, since Shulk takes more damage in Jump Art, it does 27 damage. Wonder if Smash Shulk makes it easier to connect too.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

The realest bayonetta counter. ha ha

https://twitter.com/Eight_SixtyFour/status/695157436072591360

https://twitter.com/Eight_SixtyFour/status/695531999872724992

 

[StriderAaron360]

Something for your Doc mains!

Spoiler

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

So.... Down Throw to Fair seems to work on Kirby, but the percentage window is small (67-72). Not game changing in the matchup but good to know.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

So... I've been trying to figure out how Up Air combos into itself and Up-B and I'm getting a better understanding of it. It's most likely character specific but you just have to hold forward after landing the Up Air. I don't think that C-Stick = Smash Attack setting affects your momentum too much (on the 3DS version), but who knows.

Another weird thing I found in training mode is that the CPU DIs towards the stage if you throw it from the ledge. So a ghetto way of checking how much a combo is affected by DI (and how to counter it) is to try it near the ledge. Practice Down-Throw Fair on the ledge.

 

[Game&Watcher]

Just gonna remind all of you that tomorrow's Mar10 day. That is all.

 

[MistressRemilia]

So recently, i've been implementing Tornado a lot more by the end of my combos:
Let me explain, Tornado as you guys know is a pretty good move of our character: Strong mixup & edgeguarding tool that covers a good amount of options of your opponent in a single move. It's not flawless of course, but anyway. You see, due to the aformentioned Tornado covering multiples options in once, it makes for a strong mixup as a combo finisher. It kind of is matchup dependant tho, as you have to think of the opponent's possible punishes & how rewarding that mixup may be, you know, those Risk vs Reward thoughts.
So, as you may expect, this mixup works best against characters with poor mixups of recovery & thus, could be edgeguarded by us rather easily. Characters such as Falcon or Cloud w/out Limit are te first that comes into my mind. As i said before, it has to be used wisely, like any mixup, or you may get punished. But yeah, overall, it's quite an enjoyable mixup that may let you end some stocks earlier than you think you would finish them due to sending them offstage & then edgeguarding them afterwards.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

So recently, i've been implementing Tornado a lot more by the end of my combos:
Let me explain, Tornado as you guys know is a pretty good move of our character: Strong mixup & edgeguarding tool that covers a good amount of options of your opponent in a single move. It's not flawless of course, but anyway. You see, due to the aformentioned Tornado covering multiples options in once, it makes for a strong mixup as a combo finisher. It kind of is matchup dependant tho, as you have to think of the opponent's possible punishes & how rewarding that mixup may be, you know, those Risk vs Reward thoughts.
So, as you may expect, this mixup works best against characters with poor mixups of recovery & thus, could be edgeguarded by us rather easily. Characters such as Falcon or Cloud w/out Limit are te first that comes into my mind. As i said before, it has to be used wisely, like any mixup, or you may get punished. But yeah, overall, it's quite an enjoyable mixup that may let you end some stocks earlier than you think you would finish them due to sending them offstage & then edgeguarding them afterwards.

TLDR Version: Down-B is really good and borderline flowchart.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

So this is news to me, but Down Throw -> Fair has some perks to it that are in my opinion necessary to remember.
1. At certain percents, Down-Throw Fair only combos if you move forward after performing the fair. So if your opponent doesn't DI, you jump straight up and immediately after inputting fair, move forward.
2. On fastfallers, short hop fair will connect if they DI away. And it seems that at these percents, Down Throw to Full Hop Fair will work if they don't DI away. So you don't have to bother with the full hop.

 

[PEACE7]

Any good Dr.Mario mains play online? I need some MU experience.