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Social Dr. Mario Social Thread - Witches? Dragons?...I've seen worse walk into my office.

Eight_SixtyFour

Smash Ace
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
622
I can see where he's coming from with the Ryu comparison but they are not that similar. And technically, that doesn't make sense since Ryu came after Doc in Smash Bros.

Focus attack isn't one of Ryu's better tools. It loses to multihits and grabs so big whoop as a combo breaker.

I'm pretty sure Super Jump Punch DOES have invincibility....
It doesn't. The initial hitbox is just massive. Try to Up-B through a Bob Omb. It won't go through.
 

Eight_SixtyFour

Smash Ace
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May 15, 2015
Messages
622
So our good Doc player 2ManyCooks 2ManyCooks placed 7th out of around 150 people at a multi regional, I forget the name of it, though, but it had top players like NinjaLink, Ally, and M2K there. Try calling Doc a low tier now. ;)

Here's the bracket for Top 32:
http://tcegcon2015.challonge.com/S4T32TCEG2015
The name is in the URL :)

It's a shame that Doc players don't get a lot of stream time. As evidenced by the results thread, they exist and are placing well in their local scenes.

I found the videos of 2manycooks btw. Will post them in a bit.
 

tibs7

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
2,886
2ManyCooks 2ManyCooks thats awesome, congrats. will study vods

What are peoples thoughts on falco MU, I find getting in to be extremely difficult if he walls with bair, jab, dtilt or even retreating fair. Feels like we are forced to make an unsafe read to get in which is cool and all but any tips are nice
 

MonkeyArms

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So our good Doc player 2ManyCooks 2ManyCooks placed 7th out of around 150 people at a multi regional, I forget the name of it, though, but it had top players like NinjaLink, Ally, and M2K there. Try calling Doc a low tier now. ;)

Here's the bracket for Top 32:
http://tcegcon2015.challonge.com/S4T32TCEG2015
I have hope for the Lousiana tourney next week now.
2ManyCooks 2ManyCooks thats awesome, congrats. will study vods

What are peoples thoughts on falco MU, I find getting in to be extremely difficult if he walls with bair, jab, dtilt or even retreating fair. Feels like we are forced to make an unsafe read to get in which is cool and all but any tips are nice
Doc combos falco for days. He also easily edge guards him (Like with most characters. He can even edge guard shiek reliably due to down b)
 
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Doctor_Link

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So when you edgeguard with down-b, you do it like luigi's, but more precise timing, and going for a stagespike?
 

meleebrawler

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So when you edgeguard with down-b, you do it like luigi's, but more precise timing, and going for a stagespike?
You turn yourself into a giant floating obstacle for a short time that kills people with insane base knockback, with or without stage spiking.
 
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tibs7

Smash Champion
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Jan 13, 2009
Messages
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Think im gonna drop doc to be a secondary, against any other character that has decent frame data, more speed, more disjoint (which is more than half the cast) he is just way to hard to win with.

My game heavily relies on out neutraling the opponent and yeah I will every time if we have similar characteristics but yeah. disjoint and speed kills me
 

Giga Kaiju

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You turn yourself into a giant floating obstacle for a short time that kills people with insane base knockback, with or without stage spiking.
I just recently started using that as a way to keep anyone from returning to the stage OR doing it when they're close to the sides or up. As implied, it ends in nothing good for them. Pretty up there, satisfying wise with the Up-B finisher. :gova:

Think im gonna drop doc to be a secondary, against any other character that has decent frame data, more speed, more disjoint (which is more than half the cast) he is just way to hard to win with.

My game heavily relies on out neutraling the opponent and yeah I will every time if we have similar characteristics but yeah. disjoint and speed kills me
That sounds understandable. Somethimes, when dealing with characters like that, I've just try to prevail instead of changing characters, but I can see why. Doc is too slow to deal with that kind of opponents yet not impossible. A quick work of blows that can rank up their damage can do the work, sometimes making them anxious and that way, you'll be able to punish them one way or another. It has happened to me, and it is possible.

:bowser:
 

tibs7

Smash Champion
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Messages
2,886
Giga Kaiju Giga Kaiju yeah true, hes just so fun. Tournament this wke will determine his future though lol.

Ive only one won tournament with him, many top 8's. hopefully I'll win this one though. and with some vids ^_^
 

2ManyCooks

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
13
Alright, so over the course of the next few days I'll be posting links to videos of me doing work with Doc against high level players, and top tier match ups. My aim is to enlighten people what Doc looks like at high level, intense tournament play.

The first is myself taking Mew2King to the Doctor.

http://youtu.be/IX3qReEYDr4

It's funny that I stuck with Doc when he switched to Rosa...truthfully I believe Rosa is Doc's worst matchup, put I think I played it pretty damn well in this game. A very proud moment for me, normally being the biggest whiner about Rosa haha.
 

MistressRemilia

Smash Journeyman
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Alright, so over the course of the next few days I'll be posting links to videos of me doing work with Doc against high level players, and top tier match ups. My aim is to enlighten people what Doc looks like at high level, intense tournament play.

The first is myself taking Mew2King to the Doctor.

http://youtu.be/IX3qReEYDr4

It's funny that I stuck with Doc when he switched to Rosa...truthfully I believe Rosa is Doc's worst matchup, put I think I played it pretty damn well in this game. A very proud moment for me, normally being the biggest whiner about Rosa haha.
I honestly think Rosa is one of our best matchups vs top tiers due to relative ease Doc has to take out Luma, then, your point is just to rack up as much damage as you an, just be aggressive af, even taking damage at that point doesn't matter too much.
Again, good sets, i'd just advise you to improve your punish game, and your edgeguards are meh. Your OoS Game is pretty amazing but your other punishes don't go as far as they could get, at least in my opinion, i'd be glad to help you with that.

Another thing i wanna mention is that i got to Smashladder recently. I won all the 6 first matches with Doc mainly, but going G&W and MK sometimes, i'll try to climb a little bit if i can, and make people respect the Doctor a little bit. Ik online isn't offline ( i hate online personally, had to adapt ) but it's still do-able and it's nice to know that i'm doing good so far.
 
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MonkeyArms

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Gonna be playing Doc at MLG New Orleans today. Hopefully I get pretty far. I think I got in one of the better pools.
 

Underhill

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I honestly think Rosa is one of our best matchups vs top tiers due to relative ease Doc has to take out Luma, then, your point is just to rack up as much damage as you an, just be aggressive af, even taking damage at that point doesn't matter too much.
Again, good sets, i'd just advise you to improve your punish game, and your edgeguards are meh. Your OoS Game is pretty amazing but your other punishes don't go as far as they could get, at least in my opinion, i'd be glad to help you with that.

Another thing i wanna mention is that i got to Smashladder recently. I won all the 6 first matches with Doc mainly, but going G&W and MK sometimes, i'll try to climb a little bit if i can, and make people respect the Doctor a little bit. Ik online isn't offline ( i hate online personally, had to adapt ) but it's still do-able and it's nice to know that i'm doing good so far.
Smashladder, huh? I might look you up, sometime because I'm also in the Ladder as well.
 

2ManyCooks

Smash Rookie
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Jul 27, 2015
Messages
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I honestly think Rosa is one of our best matchups vs top tiers due to relative ease Doc has to take out Luma, then, your point is just to rack up as much damage as you an, just be aggressive af, even taking damage at that point doesn't matter too much.
Again, good sets, i'd just advise you to improve your punish game, and your edgeguards are meh. Your OoS Game is pretty amazing but your other punishes don't go as far as they could get, at least in my opinion, i'd be glad to help you with that.

Another thing i wanna mention is that i got to Smashladder recently. I won all the 6 first matches with Doc mainly, but going G&W and MK sometimes, i'll try to climb a little bit if i can, and make people respect the Doctor a little bit. Ik online isn't offline ( i hate online personally, had to adapt ) but it's still do-able and it's nice to know that i'm doing good so far.
Eh...I don't know, I'm pretty sure Rosalina's advantages over Doc are way more significant than his advantages over her. Landing is always super hard in that matchup, and she can edgeguard Doc suuuper hard with dair, as it is massively disjointed and beats up b. Getting in and capitalizing can also be a nightmare for Doc because of his lack of mid range game and slow speed. Back throw, tornado and bair are all cute tools for when Luma is around.

I was playing pretty carefully, as in the game prior I got pretty bodied for over extending things and playing too aggressive. And I'd say my edgeguards were pretty good...two of the three stocks were taken by me from taking the advantage I had at the ledge and punishing. This was a large tournament with a lot at stake, and I was playing Mew2King...I was trying not to be reckless, as his playstyle heavily counters that. Rosa is also floaty, so standard Doc stuff doesn't work as well on her.
 
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MistressRemilia

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Eh...I don't know, I'm pretty sure Rosalina's advantages over Doc are way more significant than his advantages over her. Landing is always super hard in that matchup, and she can edgeguard Doc suuuper hard with dair, as it is massively disjointed and beats up b. Getting in and capitalizing can also be a nightmare for Doc because of his lack of mid range game and slow speed. Back throw, tornado and bair are all cute tools for when Luma is around.

I was playing pretty carefully, as in the game prior I got pretty bodied for over extending things and playing too aggressive. And I'd say my edgeguards were pretty good...two of the three stocks were taken by me from taking the advantage I had at the ledge and punishing. This was a large tournament with a lot at stake, and I was playing Mew2King...I was trying not to be reckless, as his playstyle heavily counters that. Rosa is also floaty, so standard Doc stuff doesn't work as well on her.
Yeah, it is true that landing & gimps are done very effectively by Rosa & we should be wary of that. I didn't we were immuned to all the janky sh*t Rosa has at her disposal, i'm just implying our ways to get them out ( AKA take out Luma ) are decent, which gives us a way to make this MU easier.
+ Idk, Rosa's recovery has no hitbox, it's just relatively fast, but not unedgeguardable by any means, kind of like the Pits in a way, so you have possibilities offstage, thats what i meant. In terms of covering ledge, you were good, but still. I can't really blame you because in general, the Smash community as of right now remains very frail in terms of offstage game/edgeguarding.
+ Rosa's floatiness can be abused to do a bunch of setups. I've been a huge fan of Jab mixups at high% recently, there's the UpB followup, but also read that the opponent will jump out, so Jab 2 -> Fullhop Fair allow us to get the kills sometimes. Rosa w/out Luma also lacks a decent combo breaker, so in a way you could get things out of our starters.

I'm not trying to take off your placements by any means, in fact, i'm glad you're here to reprsent the Doctor for us. I just think that, and this applies to most of us, we're not flawless & help from others definitly helps improving.
Well, that's p much it. I'd be glad to do a bunch of sets with you, even if i really don't like the Doc ditto matchup. I'm trying to work on a combo/mixup compendium that i could post on here, it's not done yet because i really want to make it complete,with frame traps, footstools and all other kind of janks, but if you have any setup you've been knowing and that works well, i'd be glad to hear it.
 
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2ManyCooks

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
13
Yeah, it is true that landing & gimps are done very effectively by Rosa & we should be wary of that. I didn't we were immuned to all the janky sh*t Rosa has at her disposal, i'm just implying our ways to get them out ( AKA take out Luma ) are decent, which gives us a way to make this MU easier.
+ Idk, Rosa's recovery has no hitbox, it's just relatively fast, but not unedgeguardable by any means, kind of like the Pits in a way, so you have possibilities offstage, thats what i meant. In terms of covering ledge, you were good, but still. I can't really blame you because in general, the Smash community as of right now remains very frail in terms of offstage game/edgeguarding.
+ Rosa's floatiness can be abused to do a bunch of setups. I've been a huge fan of Jab mixups at high% recently, there's the UpB followup, but also read that the opponent will jump out, so Jab 2 -> Fullhop Fair allow us to get the kills sometimes. Rosa w/out Luma also lacks a decent combo breaker, so in a way you could get things out of our starters.

I'm not trying to take off your placements by any means, in fact, i'm glad you're here to reprsent the Doctor for us. I just think that, and this applies to most of us, we're not flawless & help from others definitly helps improving.
Well, that's p much it. I'd be glad to do a bunch of sets with you, even if i really don't like the Doc ditto matchup. I'm trying to work on a combo/mixup compendium that i could post on here, it's not done yet because i really want to make it complete,with frame traps, footstools and all other kind of janks, but if you have any setup you've been knowing and that works well, i'd be glad to hear it.
Sure dude, I'd love to play online with you, just send me a PM. Yeah, there is a lot I can improve on I know, but there is also a fine line between recklessness and caution in high level tournament play, especially as Doctor Mario, who is not a strong character offstage. Being over aggressive offstage against really smart players is a great way to end up dead and gimped for no reason, haha.
 

MistressRemilia

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Sure dude, I'd love to play online with you, just send me a PM. Yeah, there is a lot I can improve on I know, but there is also a fine line between recklessness and caution in high level tournament play, especially as Doctor Mario, who is not a strong character offstage. Being over aggressive offstage against really smart players is a great way to end up dead and gimped for no reason, haha.
I'd argue Doctor Mario is an alright character offstage, he obviously can't go as deep as he'd like, but he has many tools at his disposal to deal with some recoveries. Again, not outstanding, Pikachu level of offstage, but definitly does its job against some characters.
Anyway, for the ZSS Matchup, i just feel like it's tough. Do-able, but tough. You've got to be very careful about any commitments as you don't want to give ZSS free combos, as they are mighty & you could die from them. However, ZSS is quite punishable & won't enjoy your punishes. Gimping ZSS is near impossible & is the opposite when it comes to you, so try to avoid any kind of offstage game unless you have a precise idea/read.
 

Giga Kaiju

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Yeah. Going up against characters like ZSS or Rosalina CAN be kind of tricky if you don't know what you're doing. What I do most of the times, is avoid their 'projectile-tactics' or returning them with the good' ol white cape. From there, is just a quick-thinking game trying to punish every little mistake your opponent does AND make fast-small hits here and there, ranking up their damage until using Smash Attacks more openly later.
 

MistressRemilia

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Okay so
Nairo went Doctor Mario vs Esam's Pikachu at MLG New Orleans for all of the sets.
His Doc is pretty legit, only thing that's missing is Tornado, which is imo very handy in the Pika MU, but good stuff.
 
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Doctor_Link

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Okay so
Nairo went Doctor Mario vs Pikachu's Esam at MLG New Orleans for all of the sets.
His Doc is pretty legit, only thing that's missing is Tornado, which is imo very handy in the Pika MU, but good stuff.
Did ESAM get sold into slavery or something? Cause last I checked, he played Pikachu, not the other way around.
 

Eight_SixtyFour

Smash Ace
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May 15, 2015
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3-0 huh? That's definitely worth checking out. Funny that a ZSS main picked Doc, though I can see a few similarities (OOS game, good down bs, and down throw stuff).

As I recall, Nairo's Doc isn't amazing. Nairo is just a really solid player with incredibly good reaction time and decision-making. Maybe he did some stuff against ESAM that I'm unaware of. Still, glad he got repped. Doc is the best.
 
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Thinktron

Smash Apprentice
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Feb 23, 2015
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England Maybe
Didn't esam go samus for a game, i live in Uk i missed the last few sets.

even if he hid this should definitely put doc out of the low tiers
 

Doctor_Link

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Doc is new meta.



But really, this game has progressed to the point to where the ability to say "aaaaaannnd... You're dead." Is more important than being super duper consistently safe.
 

Ramz289

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I didn't see the second set vs ESAM but I saw the first one and I like what I was seeing. Definitely looking forward to more Doctor Nairo in the future.

Someone tell that man about downb..

...

...

@Nairo use downb more bro
 

MistressRemilia

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3-0 huh? That's definitely worth checking out. Funny that a ZSS main picked Doc, though I can see a few similarities (OOS game, good down bs, and down throw stuff).

As I recall, Nairo's Doc isn't amazing. Nairo is just a really solid player with incredibly good reaction time and decision-making. Maybe he did some stuff against ESAM that I'm unaware of. Still, glad he got repped. Doc is the best.
Honestly, aside from the utter lack of Tornado, which is imo not that good of a choice considering it's a blessing in the Pikachu MU, it was really solid play from Nairo. Exploited very well our OoS game, versatile combo game,and spacing tools.
 

TheBlueSpirit

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why haven't we been replying doc like Nairo just did?

Also pikachu is not an easy matchup for Mario so idk how he did it with doc but I approve. 3-0 ftw.
 

MistressRemilia

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To get on a new subject:
Dr.Mario has possibilities to do Footstools out of his DownThrow
It really intrigates me & i'd like us to lab a bit on that, i'll do that on my own.
Knowing Doc's good regrab ability, we might be able to get something after our lock for even more damage.
 

TheBlueSpirit

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To get on a new subject:
Dr.Mario has possibilities to do Footstools out of his DownThrow
It really intrigates me & i'd like us to lab a bit on that, i'll do that on my own.
Knowing Doc's good regrab ability, we might be able to get something after our lock for even more damage.
That actually has been known for a while. You can do that into falling nair to lock and ftilt to extend the jab lock, into fair or fsmash or usmash, maybe regrab, there are a lot of possibilities. Oh uair is a good one because you can then start an uair string and finish with up b or fair
 

MistressRemilia

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That actually has been known for a while. You can do that into falling nair to lock and ftilt to extend the jab lock, into fair or fsmash or usmash, maybe regrab, there are a lot of possibilities. Oh uair is a good one because you can then start an uair string and finish with up b or fair
What i meant is expand this lock with the likes landing Uair into a grab into a combo.
 
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