Dr. Mario PSA [v0.7] Recolors + Melee F-Air + Stock Icons

[BG3]

I'm confused as to what Dair actually does. Is it just like Melee Mario's dair with fire added to it or is it Brawl Mario's dair with fire added? Or is it a completely different move?

 

[Oni K4ge]

I'm confused as to what Dair actually does. Is it just like Melee Mario's dair with fire added to it or is it Brawl Mario's dair with fire added? Or is it a completely different move?

Completely different move, as of yesterday :D Go check out the pic! It looks alot better in game, and the hitbox is a bit suckish. But its better than before, thats for sure...

 

[agroves]

Like the different poses. Dr. Mario needed some new ones New move is strange but I like it

 

[Oni K4ge]

Like the different poses. Dr. Mario needed some new ones New move is strange but I like it

I agree, he looked to much like ol' Mario. The good doctor needs flavor Which one? The D-Air? Yeah, it's a bit of a beta.

Anyone else? Pros? Cons? Feedback please.

 

[meleemaster500]

I prefer visual (animation/texture/model) changes over new attacks. you can make the doc look completely different than mario, and still play just like in melee

 

[God of Humility]

The dash attack looks good. The dair animation is weird but timer adjustement and frame speed modifications should get the job done. The pills are fantastic, the only thing missing is the sound effect for the pills.

He still needs a defining playstyle, that differs him from Mario. I believe he was stronger and slower than Mario. I suggest putting emphasis on that.

I'm looking forward to a Docified fair, upb, nair and everything else.

 

[Oni K4ge]

The dash attack looks good. The dair animation is weird but timer adjustement and frame speed modifications should get the job done. The pills are fantastic, the only thing missing is the sound effect for the pills.

He still needs a defining playstyle, that differs him from Mario. I believe he was stronger and slower than Mario. I suggest putting emphasis on that.

I'm looking forward to a Docified fair, upb, nair and everything else.

Yes, D-Air needs work... better than the last one though. I thought it would fit in bc instead of a "horizontal" spin, he does a vertical" one. aka a flip.

Heh, I did what I could with the pill SFX, I tried to reference it by putting the Up-B SFX in.

Yes, but I dont know how much slower... maybe I should decrease running speed and try to buff some of the attacks. Not by too much though. I think he needs a brawl enhancement...

YL has arrows, new dash, etc

Pichu has discharge

Mewtwo... I dont think has anything like that.

Roy has the thing with the tip of his sword

Doc right now is like mewtwo, he needs something new, besides simple animation changes. A D-Air isnt enough. I think what he needs is a new side B. The cape thing is better saved for Mario, not Doc. The question is... what? I was thinking about a ground pound, but that would be better suited as a down special above all else. D-Air would be weird imo...

 

[meleemaster500]

the mewtwo psa looks like they're trying to make mewtwo as meleeish as possible, plenty of hitbox and damage changes to match the exact melee damage. they try to make the attacks the same too to the best of their ability (like confusion) but they basically are trying to make him as much as his melee form before changing him to "evolve" from that form.

I'd wish that the differences between the doctor and regular mario in terms of weight, speed, damage, and hitboxes were changed before the character becomes delved into the brawl, "unique", aspects.

I just can't help but feel that this project is like the many other PSA characters with no references, which can easily get away with any attacks, damage, effects to represent the character.

it would be a very prominent accomplishment for this project to first become a revival of a fallen character than a completely "revamped" custom one

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Pfft. Screw that sense of retro******ry.

YL and Pichu got something new. Doc needs it as well so he isn't just another clone. I want there to be an actual reason and difference as to why Doc is separate from normal Mario other than just pills and chicken scratch cursive.

If your plan is to add a new experience, go for it. :3

 

[[TSON]]

it would be a very prominent accomplishment for this project to first become a revival of a fallen character than a completely "revamped" custom one

Do you know why we chose to revamp? For balance reasons and so that you have a reason to play these "clones". If I gave you the choice between two gems for your wedding ring, one dull and one shiny, which would you pick? Unless you're a jokester, you'd pick the shiny one. Clones are much like this; why would you pick a dull rock when you have a much better shiny one? I suppose the only exception is Dr. Mario, as he's much more powerful than Mario. But that is no excuse, if we have the ability to differentiate, I see not a blatant reason why we shouldn't. Mewtwo is fine because he bears no striking similarities to any of the characters other than Lucario who he shares only one move with.

 

[meleemaster500]

adding new moves is fine, but doctor mario already was different than mario in several ways, none of which have really been made with this character. roy fought differently than marth, YL fought differently than link, and pichu fought differently than pikachu (though i'm sure pichu mains aren't missing his self inflicted damage...) other PSAs have these differences and further additional differences on top of that.

so while you could very well re-create the doctor mario his mains all know and love as he is very different enough to justify his own character, this project just may get lost with all the other ones, making a themed character, making whatever fancy moves that they think up of and giving the character power in any way shape or form without true emphasis on the character itself, and how they would appear in brawl.

and yes, true doctor mario mains would very much like a "rock" they've lost than a "rock" trying to replace it.

 

[[TSON]]

PSA isn't your one-stop nostalgia rush, you know. Yes, these characters fought different, but look at how all of them except Dr. mario are lower tiered than their counterparts. These additional differences are also for balance. Why would you want to play a crappy low tier character when you know it's possible to give them a chance at winning matches?

 

[meleemaster500]

PSA is not meant to make your character buffed much more than other characters so that they win. that's what dumb old brawl + is for. PSA is a method for people to create custom characters in brawl. only that. if you want to make a character more "balanced" or stronger, than you can very well simply do that by changing their damage, speed, and hitboxes appropriately. people choose to play as the characters who's movesets they can best use, something which is not affected by damage or teirs, unless they're a tier queer who only chooses the characters because they are easiest to win with.

I simply feel that this character should have changed stats and hitboxes way before he gets brand new attacks and balance changes. otherwise, you are creating a character who looks like Dr. Mario but plays NOTHING like him, and you might as well call him another name and give him another texture. that's not to say he cannot have new attacks and be balanced, just that if done first, the character will never become anything like dr. mario from melee outside of "shooting pills" and "have a tornado spin"

 

[Christian_CAO]

I simply feel that this character should have changed stats and hitboxes way before he gets brand new attacks and balance changes. otherwise, you are creating a character who looks like Dr. Mario but plays NOTHING like him, and you might as well call him another name and give him another texture. that's not to say he cannot have new attacks and be balanced, just that if done first, the character will never become anything like dr. mario from melee outside of "shooting pills" and "have a tornado spin"

It's true that Dr. Mario had a play style of his own in melee, every character did, no character played exactly the same. Each had their own feel to them, and altering them entirely would breed a new character. I agree that he should be made to feel more like Dr. Mario from Melee before he is given a complete identity change. I also believe that revamping a character from melee entirely would actually be beneficial.

Take Mewtwo for example, correct me if I'm wrong ( I mean He was cool and all) but didn't he suck? If your a melee vet you probably think so( although I loved playing as him). So why bring that guys old play style back, when you could make a new one? I think what you guys are doing is incredible, bringing back these fallen favorites, but creating a character to feel exactly how they did back in the day even though the interpretation of that character in that game was all wrong is just... it just feels too right. (I timed out agian! Crap I have to type less)

 

[meleemaster500]

mewtwo's attacks and moveset didn't make him low tier, it was his hitboxes, weight and attack damage which made him very easy to kill. his attacks weren't bad at all, as there are some pretty good mewtwo mains, but buffing mewtwo to have a better chance than his low tier position in melee is a good idea (and the PSA direct conversion from lucario to mewtwo just might not make him suck like in melee because of brawl's game engine itself being completely different than melee's as well)

 

[Christian_CAO]

mewtwo's attacks and moveset didn't make him low tier, it was his hitboxes, weight and attack damage which made him very easy to kill. his attacks weren't bad at all, as there are some pretty good mewtwo mains, but buffing mewtwo to have a better chance than his low tier position in melee is a good idea (and the PSA direct conversion from lucario to mewtwo just might not make him suck like in melee because of brawl's game engine itself being completely different than melee's as well)

I was Just editing my post on the same issues, when my connection timed out. Either way I was just stating how can a character be Light, Slow, and Weak at the same time (sept mabey Jiggz on the ground)! I also felt that Mewtwo wasn't represented in Melee very well, but I only felt that way because I'm a pokemon stickler and I felt he was being too physical for a psychic pokemon (mained him any way). They gave him his presence but non of his substance that made him a fearful boss character. Now that I think about my last post, I feel that I had no right to say that Mewtwo was interpreted wrong in Melee. It's an interpretation that the developers of the game though would fit best and even though I have differing opinions about how they went about creating him, It doesn't mean that they were wrong. I have my interpretations on allot of characters, and other people have theirs.

I just wanted to also state that, I hope that Dr. Mario's essence can be kept while this project continues to develop, but if it were to alter Dr. Mario's essence in anyway I'd be even more impressed than I am now. Just thinking of how the creators of this project will interpret Dr.Mario leaves me wanting more with each new development. All in all, I'm an easy person to please, but that's just me. I'm sure that there are many people who feel differently.

EDIT: Oops... Double post...

 

[AMKalmar]

I didn't read most of this page, but I agree with melee master - you should first make him what made him Dr. Mario in the first place before making new, unique moves. The pill is done, good. But what about...
Fair - why does it spike?
DownB - this is supposed to help you recover, not make you fast fall and then go into special fall. Although the IASA is earlier than the special fall so you can interrupt it with a jump/sideB/upB. Seriously though, no special fall.
upB - should have less hits and KO pretty good.
I think he should also feel different than mario in the way he moves. He's supposed to be a slower, stronger version of mario. So give him slower run and air speed, maybe make him fall faster and then jump higher to compensate?

Just ideas. (I haven't actually played the latest version, some of these might be fixed)

 

[Oni K4ge]

I didn't read most of this page, but I agree with melee master - you should first make him what made him Dr. Mario in the first place before making new, unique moves. The pill is done, good. But what about...
Fair - why does it spike?
DownB - this is supposed to help you recover, not make you fast fall and then go into special fall. Although the IASA is earlier than the special fall so you can interrupt it with a jump/sideB/upB. Seriously though, no special fall.
upB - should have less hits and KO pretty good.
I think he should also feel different than mario in the way he moves. He's supposed to be a slower, stronger version of mario. So give him slower run and air speed, maybe make him fall faster and then jump higher to compensate?

Just ideas. (I haven't actually played the latest version, some of these might be fixed)

I didnt change anything about F-Air yet.

Special fall? Huh?! But I fixed that in build 0.3... WTF? Well, I play with inf jumps and inf B-Up on so I guess I wouldnt know if it worked. Sorry about that, I'm surprised no one else has said anything...

Ok, but I think I'm gonna keep the coins. I think the reason he didnt have coins in melee was the same reason Roy didnt have a sheath in-game... a mistake.

 

[leafbarrett]

I haven't played as him yet, but one main thing I've seen is the theme of "slower and stronger than the original". My suggestion is to drop mobility in general. I suggest any one or more of the following, but this is the word of a gameplay noob without a drop of competitive knowledge in him.

-Less aerial mobility
-Higher gravity but unchanged max falling speed (Bowser actually falls slower than it seems, it's just that he speed up to max fall so fast)
-Slower run (duh)
-Less traction/acceleration after turning
-Maybe remove wall jump?
And stronger:
-Heavier
-...well, stronger XD

Again, I'm a noob in competitive play, so if any of this would be a very stupid idea, disregard it.

EDIT:

Special fall? Huh?! But I fixed that in build 0.3... WTF? Well, I play with inf jumps and inf B-Up on so I guess I wouldnt know if it worked. Sorry about that, I'm surprised no one else has said anything...

Err... I just opened it up in PSA, and:
If: In Air
--Change Subaction: subaction=1D4
--Change Action: action=10, requirement=Animation End

That would be your problem. Change it to E, and there ya go! :3

 

[Oni K4ge]

I could have sworn I'd done that... no, I DID do that! I just must not have saved... well, thanks lol. What about getting him to move while doin it on the ground? Got a prescription for that? (C wut i did thar)

 

[leafbarrett]

I could have sworn I'd done that... no, I DID do that! I just must not have saved... well, thanks lol. What about getting him to move while doin it on the ground? Got a prescription for that? (C wut i did thar)

Ohgod XD;
Umm... There's an Air/Ground status that's for Floating on Ground, but I don't remember what it is... ;~; I'm sorry.

 

[Oni K4ge]

Ah. Well, good to know it exists anyway.

 

[Almas]

I discussed this with someone in Chat (NutheadBros), but you should be able to remove Doc's cap by hexing something. Like, whatever his cap is stored in. As an alternative to using the code, which is kind of messy.

 

[AMKalmar]

Talked about this pages ago. I removed his hat, hat shadows, and buttons, and I know how to make his hair visible but I didn't want to bother pasting it into every subaction.

 

[Almas]

Oh okay. I just presumed it was an issue since the OP still uses the code which is somewhat obsolete.

 

[AMKalmar]

I did it, never said I uploaded it. So it's still technically unresolved.

 

[GP&B]

IIRC, Mario and Dr. Mario share exactly the same number of frames on almost all of their moves. The only changes were to specials, some hitboxes, lots of trajectory changes, damage changes, and knockback changes. They both have exactly the same mobility, weight, and jump height.
Mario was known better for his great combo abilities while Dr. Mario was known well for his good kill power.
Some notes on the specials:
-Neutral B: Extremely obvious, Fireballs/Pills; Pills were far superior, dealing 7-8% damage and having a very tricky bounce that allowed for great approaches
-Forward B: Different benefits; Mario's Cape retained momentum and thus served as a better recovery tool. Dr. Mario's will slow him down, but the hitbox lasts quite a bit longer.
-Down B: Mario's is a better recovery tool. The only reason Doc would ever want to use it is to stall an edgehogger's ledge invincibility frames out and if he has his double jump with that since he'll drop quickly afterwards.
-Up B: There really isn't anything fundamentally different besides the number of times each hits respectively. They total the same damage either way. I might not remember, but I think Doc's is also shorter. Mario can also wall jump out of Up B (in Melee at least). Doc also has a cancel on the Up B that really only serves for flashiness and lulz.

 

[meleemaster500]

...Doc also has a cancel on the Up B that really only serves for flashiness and lulz.

it's abused a lot by his mainers that can cancel it, it lets him do the killing damage and knockback of his Up-B without ever leaving the ground and going into freefall, but it was a cancel, and most cancels no longer work in brawl

 

[AMKalmar]

Haha! The new standing animation makes him look like he's old and wrecked his back. And wait2 is kind of out of place and doesn't flow at all. The double jump... is he sonic? Can't say I like the dair aka dthrow.

Here's mario's model without a hat/hat shadows/buttons. Just replace the model in any FitMario##.pac using BrawlBox. And this will make his hair show up. Except for the ledge grab animation. The animation subaction numbers are all changed around and that one seems to be missing. Or maybe it specifically turns his hair off for some reason. I don't care to check.

 

[Oni K4ge]

Thanks AMK! Is the fitmario.pac built on the latest build?

EDIT: Nvm just tried it out, I LOVE IT thank you so much man. My one concern is that not only does his cap dissapear when ledgegrabbing as you mentioned (not really an issue), but when guarding as well. But still, this kicks the **** outta that code we had lol.

Now to respond to your comment:

Haha! The new standing animation makes him look like he's old and wrecked his back. And wait2 is kind of out of place and doesn't flow at all. The double jump... is he sonic? Can't say I like the dair aka dthrow.

Here's mario's model without a hat/hat shadows/buttons. Just replace the model in any FitMario##.pac using BrawlBox. And this will make his hair show up. Except for the ledge grab animation. The animation subaction numbers are all changed around and that one seems to be missing. Or maybe it specifically turns his hair off for some reason. I don't care to check.

I agree wait2 is odd, but it fits better than the real wait2, trust me.

Eh yeah I thought it looked cool lol what can I say

Yeah, he doesnt have many "stomp" like animations, and I have no patience to create a new one myself honestly.

 

[AMKalmar]

Sorry, my criticism's kinda harsh sometimes. With tweaking to the animations it would work but it just takes some getting used to. For the dair, I would have gone with a drill kick like in melee. Just use Luigi's dair and modify the bone lengths (I'm assuming they have a very similar bone structure).

 

[Oni K4ge]

Haha! The new standing animation makes him look like he's old and wrecked his back. And wait2 is kind of out of place and doesn't flow at all. The double jump... is he sonic? Can't say I like the dair aka dthrow.

Here's mario's model without a hat/hat shadows/buttons. Just replace the model in any FitMario##.pac using BrawlBox. And this will make his hair show up. Except for the ledge grab animation. The animation subaction numbers are all changed around and that one seems to be missing. Or maybe it specifically turns his hair off for some reason. I don't care to check.

Sorry, my criticism's kinda harsh sometimes. With tweaking to the animations it would work but it just takes some getting used to. For the dair, I would have gone with a drill kick like in melee. Just use Luigi's dair and modify the bone lengths (I'm assuming they have a very similar bone structure).

Nah its cool man, if I dont watch it mine is too haha.

Actually, we had originally gone with luigi's animation, but his face got very screwed up... I can see what we can do about bone tweaking though, but Ive never done that before.

 

[meleemaster500]

I think it might not be too hard to shape mario's hat into a doctor's mirror if we wanted to keep it's model...

 

[Oni K4ge]

Ohh, good point! I hadnt thought of that... hmm... what about a steathascope?

 

[AMKalmar]

I thought that was the plan. As for the stethoscope, someone mentioned reshaping the fludd? I don't know how well that would work.

 

[Shell]

Even with reshaping I'm not sure you could get it to show up except during down-b usage. I could be wrong, though.

 

[meleemaster500]

reshaping the fludd is possible but would take forever and wouldn't look pretty

 

[Oni K4ge]

I agree. Well, maybe he's not Dr. Mario, but Shrink Mario. Like, a therapist. Still a doctor though. :3

 

[dirtboy345]

bug report: i was playing on summit and if you use your down special on the breakable ice part of the stage and break it your stuck in the falling position (not t stance but falling position) until someone hits you

 

[Oni K4ge]

That's odd... well, the shock tornado is kinda buggy, you're supposed to be able to move around while using it on the ground.