Don't use Ness (or Lucas) in tournaments

[thesage]

At least he's playable in doubles...

 

[Kikuichimonji]

The thing is, you cannot jump break while you're in hit-stun while being grabbed. You have to hit jump as your final break-out button JUST as you recover from hit-stun after being grab attacked, and what's more, most characters have very fast grab attacks that keep you in a constant hit-stun state if they use the move repeatedly. So there is no hope for jump breaks.

Have you tried using tap jump? Does it auto do it if you hold up? Or is it more possible to do it with tap jump?

 

[DarkKnight077]

Aw man..I wanted Ness to be my fifth main. Oh well *Crosses off list* Hurray..for Wario I guess.

 

[Smasher89]

which characters can do this constantly?, I read in the thread that marth and DK can do it, but It should work with more characters right?

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Have you tried using tap jump? Does it auto do it if you hold up? Or is it more possible to do it with tap jump?

It doesn't matter if it's a tap jump or not, if the last input registered is a jump, then that's when you'll do a jump break.

 

[DarkKnight077]

which characters can do this constantly?, I read in the thread that marth and DK can do it, but It should work with more characters right?

Wellllll...check Nessbounder's thread.

Also I hope to god there is a patch this is lame.

Unless somehow the Player's Choice version does something with the glitch.

This is awful, really awful.

Well if you guys are no longer maining Ness, we could use some help with Link.

Anyways..They only thing is to is contact Nintendo of America. Usually they will listen to you, or where ever you people are in the world.

This sucks, I was going to pick up Ness soon because I like the Earthbound series and I like Ness.

 

[Shadow Light Master]

Bowser wouldn't have been competent even without cgs as only a handful of characters in the game could do that to him. It's just that he was bad in general. Ness is, besides this, a decent character.

You horribly missed the point. I'm not just talking about chain grabs. I'm talking about any technique that made Bowser horrible. And it was just an example.

My point was that we shouldn't ban x techniques because they make y character horrible. That's just stupid. Why should they get special treatment? If everyone suddenly found out a technique that could be exploited easily versus ROB, Snake, and Wolf, should we ban it because it makes them worse? No. Those characters just move down in tiers.

 

[DarkKnight077]

You horribly missed the point. I'm not just talking about chain grabs. I'm talking about any technique that made Bowser horrible. And it was just an example.

My point was that we shouldn't ban x techniques because they make y character horrible. That's just stupid. Why should they get special treatment? If everyone suddenly found out a technique that could be exploited easily versus ROB, Snake, and Wolf, should we ban it because it makes them worse? No. Those characters just move down in tiers.

Um no.

This makes Ness and Lucas unplayable it's unfair. This makes Brawl untounrnament wise. This makes the game unplayable now. This is stupid.

You can't have a technique that automatically kills two characters. It's unfair, just because their animation doesn't finish and others do doesn't make it right.

It's an exploitation of the game.

 

[Smasher89]

Why ban one infinite when there should be atleast 30-40 of them, infinite is "the new way of doing combos", since strings won't work as great as before.
Hopefully this won't be removed for PAL XD

 

[Shadow Light Master]

Um no.

This makes Ness and Lucas unplayable it's unfair. This makes Brawl untounrnament wise. This makes the game unplayable now. This is stupid.

You can't have a technique that automatically kills two characters. It's unfair, just because their animation doesn't finish and others do doesn't make it right.

It's an exploitation of the game.

Erm, no. They're not unplayable, just hampered severely. And so what if it's unfair they have a crappy animation? Fox has a crappy animation for his Shine that allows him to spam it like a mofo and kill everyone in Melee. OK? Should they ban Shinedashing because it decimates certain characters? No. So what if it exploits the game? It's not a glitch.

 

[PK Starstorm]

I don't care. I'm still maining them. Unlike their so called fans that just ditched them because of this fact, i'm gonna stick with them.

 

[Cort]

Good job, PK Starstorm.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Ya! Im with them all the way! Glitch or no glitch!


PS: Thanks for waking me up Cort. I guess I'll just have to get better.

 

[Conda]

Bowser, Dk, and Dedede users don't ask us to ban PK Fire, so I guess it's only fair that we allow being chaingrabbed by Marth. Even though grabbing is 100 times easier to do...

 

[GutsyBat]

Backk to practicing my Yoshi I suppose. This is kind of a let down, Ness is my favorite video game character =[. I'm not expecting a patch, but I am expecting a new version of the game eventually.

I Just hope somehow this gets fixed.

(By the way, the concept of never getting a grabbed in a match isn't very practical, especially against any characters with massive grabs).

 

[memphischains]

I don't care. I'm still maining them. Unlike their so called fans that just ditched them because of this fact, i'm gonna stick with them.

I'm with you, I really enjoyed playing with these characters, and Brawl matches don't really mean much to me so I'm going to keep playing with them.

 

[Earthbound360]

****it this ruined my life
I really hope Amazing Ampharos keeps posting. He's the only hope I have left.

 

[distr0ia]

I don't care. I'm still maining them. Unlike their so called fans that just ditched them because of this fact, i'm gonna stick with them.

that's great, but you can't really blame the others so harshly for jumping ship

I mean...why put yourself through this bullsh*t?

 

[munkus beaver]

Unless you're entering a tourney, this shouldn't be a huge deal to you. If you do go to a tourney, you just have to be aware to the fact that you can be chain grabbed easily, and from the looks of this thread only a few characters can do it infinitely.

Ness and Lucas are still better in brawl than Bowser and Mewtwo were in melee. They are still viable.


And Cort, thanks for being a competent smashboarder. It's refreshing to find someone with just the right amount of wit and sass here.

 

[Smasher89]

Hmm, tested a little (like one try lol) this against my brother, with marth always holding shield and mashing A, worked to 0-55ish % and then he escaped due to landing far away from the Shieldgrab, I think It can be a safe way of getting atleast 0-50 without too much effort and timing...

 

[Earthbound360]

^^^
marth doesnt have to shield grab meaning he can just dash grab.

Who discovered this? I have to thank them for ruining my favorite characters.

 

[Masky]

You did it wrong. Marth can do this chain to at least 300%. Try using the Z button instead and mashing as fast as you can.

This was asked in the other CG thread, but I'll put the question in this one too. Is there a such thing as smash DI for grab-releases?

EDIT: Woah 360 we posted at the same time

 

[Earthbound360]

I posted 1 minute before

This is worse than the plague

 

[Smasher89]

Well my post was about doing it easier "without" the timing and just mashing Z, after 50% you´ll need to start trying to time the grabs instead of doing the "100% safe?" shieldgrab...

 

[Earthbound360]

Oh okay. That's a very small ray of hope at least.

 

[AOB]

****it this ruined my life

Your life = Ness?

You know, guys, you can still play Ness and Lucas with your friends. The purpose of this thread is to give you a heads-up in case you wanted to use them in a tournament. You wouldn't want to learn about this the hard way.

 

[DarkBlue]

I would like to look into this "counter grab" a little more..

I mean, if we were to continue playing Ness, and take him on to a competetive level then we would have to do everything possible to avoid being grabbed.

So pressing grab at the same time as your opponent cancels their grab:

Will this work if they're shieldgrabbing you straight out of an aerial.. Say, fair?

If Ness' grab is outranged by your opponent, will you get grabbed?

What can you do out of this cancelled grab? Which character is able to move first, the grabber or the grab-ee?

I'm gonna test a few of these things myself later on, but being European.. my only resource to test is Wifi. Far from ideal.
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Ref]

Who discovered this? I have to thank them for ruining my favorite characters.

You know just because people can do this doesn't mean they do. They probably will in a tournament but I can tell you, this has never happened to me no matter who I played against online. Tournaments are for Winning, Basic play is for training skill level to win. A Marth won't get good against all characters if all he does is infinite release grab combos Ness and Lucas.

 

[Smashbros_7]

I feel sorry for you guys. I don't play in tournies much, but this is horrible!!!

 

[Earthbound360]

^^^
Negative

Its amazing how fast word spreads. I was online today in a Basic Brawl and a Pit player started doing this to me. I was in utter shock.

And yes, my smash life is in Ness and Lucas.

 

[Ref]

Negative

Its amazing how fast word spreads. I was online today in a Basic Brawl and a Pit player started doing this to me. I was in utter shock.

And yes, my smash life is in Ness and Lucas.

I guess greed to win and news travels fast...

 

[Earthbound360]

Life sucks
Im going to have to change one of my taunts to "NO DEATH GRABBING!" now

I am going to see if I can get this banned. I dont care how much you guys say it wont work and how much you say "I told you so" if I fail, but I still wanna get this banned.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Im with you all the way EB!

Spread the word. And lets make a petition!!!

 

[S_B]

This really sucks for Ness/Lucas players...

 

[Proverbs]

I also agree that this should be banned. After playing 64 recently I decided Ness was going to be my secondary for all three games, except 64, in which he's my main (by the way, Ness wasn't unusable in Melee). I think a petition should be signed, as the above poster mentioned to get this 'technique' (if you can even call it that) banned. But even if it doesn't get banned and my friends abuse this on me (although I'd ban it for personal play no matter what they say) I'm still going to have Ness as my secondary character. And, honestly, I sort of do look with less favor on those who just jumped ship from Ness.

But I'd like a little clarification on this technique: Does grabbing at the same time break it? Is it practical for all characters who can do it to do it (I heard Marth was the only one who could really capitalize on this)? Can anyone infinite Lucas or is he not affected by this past 20%?

I heard a couple different things either way on these and wasn't sure which was which. But this infinite grabbing should definitely be banned. Unlike Fox's waveshining from Melee, this technique does not take skill and is much more broken. Fox's waveshining also did not make any character unplayable. This should be banned not because it's abusing game mechanics (we do this all the time), because (for once this word is being used correctly) it's cheap. There is no way you can tell me that this 'chaingrab' is not cheap. It destroys two great characters due to flawed design, one of which has the most advanced techs in the game. Lucas and Ness are unique characters that should not be destroyed. But even if they are, if I do tournaments, I'll still use them as my second and third mains (except I might be dropping Lucas for other reasons).


So, all in favor of petitioning the banning of this technique?

 

[DarkBlue]

How about we find out the solid facts before looking for a ban..?

Already, this isnt as terrible as was first thought.

Nessbounder made it clear that you can spotdodge many characters and easily jump break others.
His tests didnt include DI, so there is more potential there.

Other characters slide after they dash-grab, and Grab-jabs aren't exactly the most powerful moves out there. A smash after that is bad, but I'd take a smash over a 0-death IC chaingrab (Which is not banned..) any day.

Moaning about this isn't gonna help at all.

Instead of chasing shadows and hoping for a ban, lets work on minimizing the damage done to our character. If everyone chipped in then we'd be more likely to find the specifics behind this, and the best way around it.

Ness has some life in him yet ^^

 

[Earthbound360]

Proverbs wins
I am going to make a petition.

I was making a Lucas vs. Ness comparison, PKT guide, Ness advanced tactic guide, and a Mario strikers charged trick guide, but this banning comes first. I will make a convincing argument also.
Maybe I should get grounded again. That's how I finished the PKT guide for Melee.

 

[Cort]

A petition won't get something that shouldn't get banned banned. It's been discussed already.

It would be impossible to enforce.

 

[Conda]

Right, then I guess nothing has ever been banned before.

@Darkblue
People who want IC chaingrabs to be banned have a good point and there is a chance that IC chaingrabbing will be banned in some tournies.

 

[Earthbound360]

I saw something like that coming