Don't Drop the Ball! A Comprehensive (70% complete) Guide to D-throw

A2ZOMG

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#41
5+1 (variable) frames. You have to actually wait a few frames, usually around 3 before inputting the footstool so that the game registers that you're high enough to jump off the opponent's "head" (not really sure how the game determines this, though it essentially depends on how tall the character is).

So on a lot of characters where you have to wait for about 3 frames after short hopping, the footstool hits on the 9th frame if done correctly. This option is not something I recommend for beginners. DDD I know for example is a character who requires you to be airborne for 3 frames before footstooling, and your frame adv for him teching in place is +11. You have a 3 frame unbufferable window to actually connect the footstool on him.

Now from experimentation, I will personally say that the only timing windows that I believe are obscenely difficult to hit even with practice are 1 frame unbufferable windows (techchasing DDD's away techroll with F-air is an example of this). A 3 or even a 2 frame window is pretty generous as long as you're willing to practice it.

To give you an example of another 3 frame window, landing 3rd hit N-air from a short hop (to combo into D-smash) is a 3 frame unbufferable window.
 
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#42
I usually always fullhop FF my Nair 3rd-hit cancel, because I'm used to the motion. Time to practice some shorthoping Nair then. I'll also check and train the timing for some Dthrow > tech, techroll > footstool options against large and short chars.

Thanks for your clarification A2.
 

Publix

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#44
Hey A2, I have problems regrabing after a succesful Dthrow > techroll read (esp against peach).
She usually dodge (but then eat a charged Usmash) or Roll behind, thus making harder to connect, or simply jab (so I should shield grab). So basically I think I would prefer to simply dash attack when she tries to attack me, and Usmash if my opponent spotdodge right after.
I have the same problem with Ike's techroll away. He usually spotdodges or shields, so Usmash doesn't connect. So if you just run past that peach and reverse grab u cover both options, and there's about a 50% chance on some stages that aren't FD that the other person just rolled near an edge limiting their options.

Or just take A2's advice and Superman that hoe (fair). or Save it if she's at 90% wait till she's at 120 and use that for the K.O.
 

Publix

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#46
Yeah, but that gets shielded 9 out of 10 times. it doesn't break a shield even fully charged. It would be pretty hard, but if we ran past them and did a daucus, then that should break a shield. The daucus would allow you to run slightly longer and start ur upsmash later since it stops all momentum.
 

A2ZOMG

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#47
If by any chance you can footstool Peach for techrolling, then do that.

I didn't test it on a LOT of characters. And I'm not going to have a chance to test until finals are done.
 
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#48
Great read, A2! Definitely going to work on my Dthrow game a bit more since U/F/B Throws have been getting more love than Down throws lately.
 

GimR

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#50
I know for a fact that you can tech chase MK and then D-air but it seems it would be a lot easier to just tech chase --> footstool --> d-air since you have a 33 frame advantage
 

A2ZOMG

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#51
Well footstooling MK done frame perfectly after a short hop only takes about 8 frames if my intuition/memory is correct. Alone that's a whopping 9 frame difference from techchasing with D-air. I would assume that you would need about 5ish more frames dashing to make up the difference in distance reached with D-air, so yeah. Timing a footstool on techroll is almost certainly more lenient.
 

Splice

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#52
This threads the most useful thing to come out of GaW boards for sometime!
Good stuff A2. I still have to comprehend most of it, only skimmed for now.
 

Publix

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#53
I think, as long as they aren't in kill percent, Diddy and Snake should be up thrown. Diddy get's ***** by Nair, But it's also about garuanted that they will roll towards a banana after a Dthrow, which can lead to a fair easily.
 

A2ZOMG

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#55
I'm not sure how you got ROB to tech in place BEHIND you. That's one of the least likely things to happen in a real match.

And I apologize for laziness/procrastination/focusing on other things. I assure you though I have not forgotten that I have stuff remaining to do for this topic.
 

Taterz

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#57
one of my favorite tools GnW has is is d-throw. couldnt figure out why i whiffed sometimes with dsmash but frame data helps out alot. thanks for the very in-depth guide!
 

Splice

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#59
@A2Z : tech in place behind should happen if opponent expects Dthrow -> Jab -> Regrab, since our Jab doesnt hit (most characters) from behind.

Its one of the less common tech-options, but it definitely happens and should be considered.
 

A2ZOMG

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#60
How the hell do you do that? No seriously. How the hell do you tech in place BEHIND G&W?

Because I'd like to know how it's even humanly possible to do. Several characters are only in the air for 1 frame when they are D-thrown by G&W. And last time I checked, DI is not a bufferable commitment. Even if you're in the air for 3 frames, it's still INSANELY hard to tech in place after DIing a direction.
 

Splice

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#61
Well im just the GaW main so I dont do any of that myself

My friend who mains MK uses it as a mixup every now and then, gotta be wary of it

id imagine u just let go of the control stick the same frame u press L/R
 

A2ZOMG

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#62
To be fair, MK is in the air for around 3 frames if I recall when you D-throw him. So it's a little more realistic that he could be pulling that off.

Either way though, I'm just saying that **** is not easy to do at all and generally isn't a concern.

ROB on the other hand, I have no idea wtf happened in that video.
 

Splice

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#63
If your opponents aren't ****, then every option should be a concern.

I'm not a frame-data analyst, i dont know if its harder for which characters, but I can understand its probably harder for a larger character as they would hit the ground with less time to react.
It's obviously still possible, though, so yeah :p

What's left to do in this thread exactly A2?
 

A2ZOMG

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#64
What's left to do basically:

*Clean up data and make it look neat and easy to read
*Doublecheck in depth on EVERY character options for techchasing both forward and backwards techroll
*silly stuff involving Snake and his mine. Gonna capture images to show distances where he can be hit out of roll by his own mine.
*might get more images and frame data for random things

Honestly it's minor stuff, but I just have been too lazy to do it, since I know it's gonna take me hours like the rest of the data I compiled.
 

A2ZOMG

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#67
Don't feel like doing that. Omegablackmage got approximate data for that a loooong time ago. There is a definite correlation between his numbers and my followup data. I don't recall at the instant, but there is a certain roll length/frame advantage ratio where things like the GIMR option select are impossible not due to frame advantage but due to roll length.

At any rate, added his stuff to my guide for immediate reference.
 

A2ZOMG

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#72
Just for you GIMR, I added that into the N-air section. =)

Blargh I do not have time nor willingness to doublecheck my work...I'll do this during the summer, ideally after attending E4J Bruno hosted by Mikehaze.
 

LinkinHand

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#73
this is amazing
thx A2ZOMG
someday i'll learn everything of it
btw how do i buffer the nair after the dthrow
i tried it a few times and it didn't work :(
 

A2ZOMG

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#75
this is amazing
thx A2ZOMG
someday i'll learn everything of it
btw how do i buffer the nair after the dthrow
i tried it a few times and it didn't work :(
As Ruuku said, you need to buffer a dash first. Dashing forward before doing an aerial does not cost a frame.

Also keep in mind, when buffering aerials, your 5 frame jump startup overlaps with your buffer window. What this means is while it's possible to buffer Dash and Jump up to 10 frames before your D-throw ends, the actual aerial attack you buffer has to be buffered either during your jump startup, or up to 10 - 5 frames before your D-throw ends. Read my section on buffering if you want detailed clarification on how to buffer your options.
 

LinkinHand

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#76
As Ruuku said, you need to buffer a dash first. Dashing forward before doing an aerial does not cost a frame.

Also keep in mind, when buffering aerials, your 5 frame jump startup overlaps with your buffer window. What this means is while it's possible to buffer Dash and Jump up to 10 frames before your D-throw ends, the actual aerial attack you buffer has to be buffered either during your jump startup, or up to 10 - 5 frames before your D-throw ends. Read my section on buffering if you want detailed clarification on how to buffer your options.

thx a lot^^
 
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