Does the level 9 CPU adapt to situation in a match?

[Nintendevil]

Yes, when you are at higher percentages, they use stronger attacks, when at lower, they try to combo more...



they still suck though.

 

[System Failure 333]

yea it's become very boring to fight against a dodging machine, knowing that in the end you'll probably end up 3, if not 2-stocking them

 

[Speedsk8er]

CPUs get wrecked by Captain Falcon combos.


>_____________________________>

 

[Meccs]

They are actually AI to some extent. They will "watch" you and adapt to your play style. If you do something at a certain situation (ie. DeDeDe crouch as a taunt) they see that and will apply it.

Yeah, computer Ness's on mine started doing the repeated Ness's 'crouch + a' kick after I started doing it. They never did it once before, now they do it quite frequently.

 

[Agi]

After being hit by a powerful attack, I always air dodge... now the computer does it too. They also repeatedly crouch as a taunt.. just like me. Everytime I fight level 9's, they get better...

 

[Justblaze647]

I think the cpu's in brawl adapt to most situations pretty well, but they still fall into patterns of attack and defense that make them predictable.

 

[Greenstreet]

already i thread on this? or is this the orig?

 

[Newuser12345215]

Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection uses ghost data. I am not sure how ghost data work or anything, never played Tekken 5: DR, all I read was that it had "ghost data" which players can download from other players to fight them(since there was no online play in Tekken 5: DR).

Anyway, I think it tries to copy the way player's playstyle, it doesn't copy it exact buttons(I think) so maybe Brawl has something like that?

 

[Zenthewanderer]

Ha... Totally forgot I posted here. I do have a couple replays that would show what I was talking about- only I don't know how to convert them. Also, I'm back with 2 new cases. I don't recall if I touched on either of these last time, but here goes...

Mario Vs Sonic
For a full week, I had the urge to have these epic clashes between the mascots of Sega and Nintendo. (I'm sure plenty have done this- I get the urge every now and then.) Anyway, a few things to point out before I continue.
1. It had been quite a while since I last did this- at least a month if not more. The last time I did it was a breeze.
2. Mario and Sonic are both mains of mine- two of my best characters I beleive.
3. These fights almost always take place on Battlefield and were of Lv9 status.
4. I switch sides often- 60% Sonic, 40% Mario, I'd say.

As I said, the last time I did this it was a piece of cake. I recall my first match- I was Sonic, Lv9 Mario CPU. I was shocked- simply shocked by what happened. I was having trouble. Mario was pulling off my usual tricks and tactics. It wasn't evident at first- I fought him again and looked for the signs of what I suspected. Sure enough, the second fight revealed it. Mario was using my favorite manuvers.
You see, when I'm Mario fighting Sonic, I like to use this combination of back air kicks, Mario's cape, his down smash, and literally one fireball to stun him- not in that order, just some of my favorite moves. CPU Mario was lapsing into these periods where he would favor the same attacks. For example, the CPU Mario used to never use the cape to reverse my running path- he only did it when I was attacking him. In other words, CPU Mario reserved the cape for defensive manuvers- not to confusion or disorient, as I do. Furthermore, Mario practically never used the cape anyway, I assume because Sonic has only one vertical projectile.
In short, CPU Mario was both a challenge and a copycat. I believe the CPU is programed to alter its style according to success rate on both the player's part, and the computer's part. It detects a certain combination of button presses that often results in a positive outcome and copies it. Yes this theory has been said and I agree- but I have suspected this for sometime. I also propose that the CPU records which characters these 'button presses' are most effective against. On a final note, switching to Mario wasn't as surprising. CPU Sonic has been copying me for months. > > It was just the first time I noticed Mario really doing it.

My second recent case. King Koopa, A.K.A Bowser.

Beginning notes-
1. Flashback to Melee- never played as Bowser. Never had a reason.
2. Fought Bowser in Brawl often because he's a fun opponent in my opinion, but barely fought as him at first. I often would take him on as Mario for obvious reasons. Easy win for me.
3. In the last two weeks, I've added Bowser to my team, so to speak, and have been playing as him constantly. I've grown quite good as him really.
4. My old CPU Bowser was pretty much a firebreathing, offensive nutcase. Not much defense to speak of at all.
5. My Bowser is much more defense oriented. I roll a lot, try to use what speed he has, I focus on his smashes and side-B, and I use the firebreath conservatively.
6. Final note- there's something I rather love doing as Bowser. When I'm in critical health and know I'll be killed soon, I suicide with my opponent- using his side-b. Usually I do this once my opponent is on their last stock for a 'finishing blow', if you will. Mind you, I've never seen the CPU do this. Never. So you can guess how this is about to go, can't you?

After two weeks of warming up to Bowser and perhaps 'teaching' the AI some successful button sequences, I decided to take on CPU Bowser as Mario. Like the Sonic Vs Mario fights- it had been a good while. What followed were five challenging brawls- Two on Battlefield, One on Mushroomy Kingdom, two on FD. Well, get this. First off, suddenly Bowser is focusing on a combination heavy defense, small bursts of fire for stunning, and frequent smashing as opposed to specials. Here's where it gets really interesting.
In our very first match, Bowser- at various damage levels, pulls off my suicide move. If I recall, three times he tries it- twice he pulls it off (once I was able to influence the slam back to the stage, the other two it was no use). But, after that match, not anymore. It was like the CPU realized the technique was unfavorble- obviously it wasn't able to understand why it was useful to me. So, after that, it simply used other aspects of my Bowser style.


And that concludes my two most recent cases. I have four of the Bowser-Mario fight replays- the one on Mushroomy Kingdom lasted too long and wasn't that interesting anyway.

 

[25%Cotton]

if you REALLY wanna test this, try crouch taunting in a weird pattern. like crouch-crouch.... crouch....crouch-crouch-crouch. always do it the same.

then see if they do the same pattern >_>

 

[PrinceMarthX]

The longer you play with the computer in a single match the better they will be, because they adapt to your tactics. But they lose that information once the match ends.

 

[bludhoundz]

if you REALLY wanna test this, try crouch taunting in a weird pattern. like crouch-crouch.... crouch....crouch-crouch-crouch. always do it the same.

then see if they do the same pattern >_>

It's funny that you say that.

I tried something kind of similar to this a few days ago. I was just crouching and standing up repeatedly as if to fake a dtilt. I later saw a level 9 MK copy this during a match.

I didn't do a specific pattern of crouching like you said though.

 

[MetaAlex]

I noticed that too, they seem to play at lot more defesivley at higher %, been practising with a lvl 9 falco and at high % he dodges a hella of a lot

 

[Snail]

My D3 taunts twice when he kills me. Just like I always do when I play him... ._. I wonder if he'll start CGing too...

 

[Lutukor]

I don't think they quite remember/copy down everything we do, just the successful styles of play. It also seems that the cpus remember what constantly works against us until we can learn how to dodge/punish it.

I'd also like to take this space to john about the computer's ungodly spotdodging abilities.

 

[gojira345]

Ha... Totally forgot I posted here. I do have a couple replays that would show what I was talking about- only I don't know how to convert them. Also, I'm back with 2 new cases. I don't recall if I touched on either of these last time, but here goes...

Mario Vs Sonic
For a full week, I had the urge to have these epic clashes between the mascots of Sega and Nintendo. (I'm sure plenty have done this- I get the urge every now and then.) Anyway, a few things to point out before I continue.
1. It had been quite a while since I last did this- at least a month if not more. The last time I did it was a breeze.
2. Mario and Sonic are both mains of mine- two of my best characters I beleive.
3. These fights almost always take place on Battlefield and were of Lv9 status.
4. I switch sides often- 60% Sonic, 40% Mario, I'd say.

As I said, the last time I did this it was a piece of cake. I recall my first match- I was Sonic, Lv9 Mario CPU. I was shocked- simply shocked by what happened. I was having trouble. Mario was pulling off my usual tricks and tactics. It wasn't evident at first- I fought him again and looked for the signs of what I suspected. Sure enough, the second fight revealed it. Mario was using my favorite manuvers.
You see, when I'm Mario fighting Sonic, I like to use this combination of back air kicks, Mario's cape, his down smash, and literally one fireball to stun him- not in that order, just some of my favorite moves. CPU Mario was lapsing into these periods where he would favor the same attacks. For example, the CPU Mario used to never use the cape to reverse my running path- he only did it when I was attacking him. In other words, CPU Mario reserved the cape for defensive manuvers- not to confusion or disorient, as I do. Furthermore, Mario practically never used the cape anyway, I assume because Sonic has only one vertical projectile.
In short, CPU Mario was both a challenge and a copycat. I believe the CPU is programed to alter its style according to success rate on both the player's part, and the computer's part. It detects a certain combination of button presses that often results in a positive outcome and copies it. Yes this theory has been said and I agree- but I have suspected this for sometime. I also propose that the CPU records which characters these 'button presses' are most effective against. On a final note, switching to Mario wasn't as surprising. CPU Sonic has been copying me for months. > > It was just the first time I noticed Mario really doing it.

My second recent case. King Koopa, A.K.A Bowser.

Beginning notes-
1. Flashback to Melee- never played as Bowser. Never had a reason.
2. Fought Bowser in Brawl often because he's a fun opponent in my opinion, but barely fought as him at first. I often would take him on as Mario for obvious reasons. Easy win for me.
3. In the last two weeks, I've added Bowser to my team, so to speak, and have been playing as him constantly. I've grown quite good as him really.
4. My old CPU Bowser was pretty much a firebreathing, offensive nutcase. Not much defense to speak of at all.
5. My Bowser is much more defense oriented. I roll a lot, try to use what speed he has, I focus on his smashes and side-B, and I use the firebreath conservatively.
6. Final note- there's something I rather love doing as Bowser. When I'm in critical health and know I'll be killed soon, I suicide with my opponent- using his side-b. Usually I do this once my opponent is on their last stock for a 'finishing blow', if you will. Mind you, I've never seen the CPU do this. Never. So you can guess how this is about to go, can't you?

After two weeks of warming up to Bowser and perhaps 'teaching' the AI some successful button sequences, I decided to take on CPU Bowser as Mario. Like the Sonic Vs Mario fights- it had been a good while. What followed were five challenging brawls- Two on Battlefield, One on Mushroomy Kingdom, two on FD. Well, get this. First off, suddenly Bowser is focusing on a combination heavy defense, small bursts of fire for stunning, and frequent smashing as opposed to specials. Here's where it gets really interesting.
In our very first match, Bowser- at various damage levels, pulls off my suicide move. If I recall, three times he tries it- twice he pulls it off (once I was able to influence the slam back to the stage, the other two it was no use). But, after that match, not anymore. It was like the CPU realized the technique was unfavorble- obviously it wasn't able to understand why it was useful to me. So, after that, it simply used other aspects of my Bowser style.


And that concludes my two most recent cases. I have four of the Bowser-Mario fight replays- the one on Mushroomy Kingdom lasted too long and wasn't that interesting anyway.

What I've been trying to say all along.

They copy our success I believe, not everything.

 

[BrawlerHarrison]

I would say they adapt to everything... Accept custom stages <.<

 

[Black/Light]

Humm, this is pretty interesting.

I almost always play as Zero and I never knew how to make the CPU be Zero at the start so I have yet to fight a CPU Zero. I wonder if it's took pointers from me!

I guess I should try this with some other characters. . . maybe Ganon wouldn't get soo pwned if I played as him some times

 

[Xyz-Chan]

I was on training with a level 9 metaknight. I was playing as Ike and I read this thread... I started crouching when i KO'd him.. Lo and Behold after a hour of doing this.. He start'd doing it. It was kinda funny to watch

 

[sniperworm]

Humm, this is pretty interesting.

I almost always play as Zero and I never knew how to make the CPU be Zero at the start so I have yet to fight a CPU Zero. I wonder if it's took pointers from me!

I guess I should try this with some other characters. . . maybe Ganon wouldn't get soo pwned if I played as him some times

To make the CPU start as Zero Suit Samus, plug a controller into the port that you use as the CPU, then hold down block on the controller that's the CPU (as you press start, you know, the same way you do it, but on the CPU's controller).

My Pikachu computer used QAC once, but I'm fairly sure it's just a coincedence since it hasn't done it since (and no I don't have a replay).

My computer G&W drops off the edge and immediately Dairs to its death on a fairly regular basis. My friend who plays G&W does this pretty often by accident. Is this the computer learning? I'll leave it up to you guys to decide.

 

[Kyzon Xin]

Humm, this is pretty interesting.

I almost always play as Zero and I never knew how to make the CPU be Zero at the start so I have yet to fight a CPU Zero. I wonder if it's took pointers from me!

I guess I should try this with some other characters. . . maybe Ganon wouldn't get soo pwned if I played as him some times

i've been practicing alot of zero suit lately. picking her and Full metal Samus up at my secondary to the triforce.. and it seems my zero suit has learned alot from me... from dsmash dsmash up tilt to very rarely glide tossing armor as i do.... i'll try to get a vid up next time i play her

 

[Vividice]

I'm pretty sure they copy/adept to a certain degree.

Does anyone knows Dual Heroes on N64?

In that Game you could "train" a CPU.
Youhad to fight them in a mirror match as teaching.
After some "training" they kinda played like you,
because they copied the usage amount of certain attack, and the attack order in combos.

Due to improvements in CPU-power and AI/algorithms this could be easily implemented in brawl - and that far superior to a crappy N64 game



I have some personal evidence for this "adaption":

The first weeks I got Brawl ,I played only vs CPUs due to the lack of human players.
I read all the whining about MK being overpowered and fought several times against a lvl9 MK.
I main Snake and destroyed him like a usual lvl 3-5 CPU.
After playing against a Friend who gave me some problems as a MK,
I started to also play as MK and got quite good with him.
I still keeped Snake as my main and got much better against MK.
I even beat my friend now everytime he uses MK.

BUT now I have real problems with lvl 9 MKs!
And it's really not the case that I got worse, I have no real problems with most MK Players.



Sounds like the CPU copied my playstyle and I have problems to fight against my own MK Ghost data

 

[Agi]

The first weeks I got Brawl ,I played only vs CPUs due to the lack of human players.
I read all the whining about MK being overpowered and fought several times against a lvl9 MK.
I main Snake and destroyed him like a usual lvl 3-5 CPU.
After playing against a Friend who gave me some problems as a MK,
I started to also play as MK and got quite good with him.
I still keeped Snake as my main and got much better against MK.
I even beat my friend now everytime he uses MK.

BUT now I have real problems with lvl 9 MKs!
And it's really not the case that I got worse, I have no real problems with most MK Players.



Sounds like the CPU copied my playstyle and I have problems to fight against my own MK Ghost data

When I got brawl, the FIRST thing I did was test the level 9 cpu. It was the first time I had even TOUCHED the game, I knew nothing about the metagame or whatever. I dominated them like they were a lvl 2 melee cpu. Now, I have trouble against this one stupid lvl 9 bluigi cpu, it always perfect shields, grabs through my attacks, and makes my shields irrelevant... yes. It can hit through my shields. I don't even PLAY as Luigi. WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON???

 

[Vividice]

When I got brawl, the FIRST thing I did was test the level 9 cpu. It was the first time I had even TOUCHED the game, I knew nothing about the metagame or whatever. I dominated them like they were a lvl 2 melee cpu. Now, I have trouble against this one stupid lvl 9 bluigi cpu, it always perfect shields, grabs through my attacks, and makes my shields irrelevant... yes. It can hit through my shields. I don't even PLAY as Luigi. WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON???

Misi's Mom is going on!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rmbN6-T-UE

On Topic: Also if not that extreme, I experiencied kinda the same :D
But your strong Luigi would speak more against as for this theory.
Or did you played against any Luigis online?
Or any of your friends plays him?

 

[Agi]

Misi's Mom is going on!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rmbN6-T-UE

On Topic: Also if not that extreme, I experiencied kinda the same :D
But your strong Luigi would speak more against as for this theory.
Or did you played against any Luigis online?
Or any of your friends plays him?

...okay, what the heck was that video's relevancy?

As for the strong Luigi, no one I know plays as him. ...well, I take that back. I did two battles playing as him recently. I ubused his dthrow>nair>uair a bunch, so I guess he picked that up... and of course I had occasional perfect shields. But this Luigi has now turned into my rival... once I can consecutively beat him, I'll be happy. But then he'll learn new techniques from my Sheik's game...

 

[theONEjanitor]

the lvl 9 cpu's have more depth than melee but they are still are pretty easy to figure out, and they always immediately air dodge when they are launched.

 

[Vividice]

and they always immediately air dodge when they are launched.

Is that something bad, in any way?

 

[Kyzon Xin]

lol i copied the CPU in air dodging after launched

 

[Ntei]

Does the cpu copie your oponents at online fights too?

 

[A6M Zero]

For some reason fighting lvl 9 Wolf really feels like fighting a human.

It kind of weirds me out sometimes.

Agreed on the Wolf sometimes.


...But I think that's probably because most Wolf's are easy spammers or unable to control his jerkiness, they seem random.

 

[Svkv]

I don't know about adapting but I've seen some wierd things. For instance, after a level nine TL KOed me, he taunted and ducked up and down three times. People do that to me all the time online.

 

[Yinlong]

all i know is that the Yoshi CPU sucks
its does side+B suicides >.>

 

[Natolis]

yah i think they do because once i was trainning spaming with pit to no what to do wen you face spammer i was pit and the lvl 9 was zss then i was spamming the arrow then all of a sudden boom it started to crawl wow it waz wierd lol

 

[DarkRenji]

. . .

 

[Greenstreet]

all i know is that the Yoshi CPU sucks
its does side+B suicides >.>

a lv 9?

do u play yoshi alot? and has it bin copying you lol.

 

[Barge]

They're watching you, they're learning. They're gonna take over the world D:

 

[ShadowLink84]

Peach dash danced after knocking me off the ledge.

 

[Greenstreet]

lol on peach

 

[OmegaXF]

Peach has a human brain for a cpu. THAT ***** IS DEADLY!

 

[JCMR-Brawler64]

Diddy is annoying too...