• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Does Peach Counter Marth??

Luck-NYC/NJ

Smash Lord
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
1,745
Location
BergenField, Bergen County(North East Jersey)
i need to know everyones opinion on this (except noobs please dont post if ur off topic or dont know what ur saying). my friend says peach definatly counters marth for the following:

Peach>Marth
she wont die
cant kill her with anything but f-smash and spike
she beats his edge gaurd which is one of his best abilities
she edge guards his recovery with turnips

I accept these things but i feel it isnt a counter pick because marth plays extremely well against peach also

Marth>Peach
combos her extremely well
Stops her float cancel
cuts her grabs off with his grabs

He says that my reasons arent true because marths range affects every characters and i say so wat it affects peach the most and i say my turnips edge gaurd everyone equally doesnt just stop marth also no one in the game can kill peach.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
Marth has advantage on Peach.

For great justice you must slap your friend.
 

Winston

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
3,562
Location
Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
Actually, turnip edgeguarding like never works. What does work is swinging that sword.

Marth >>> peach

Besides, how the hell are you getting marth off the edge? With that amazingly fast, high-priority, ranged attack that you don't have? >_>
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
There is no need luck. Marth > Peach. This is a fact. It can't be disputed. Your friend is ignorant. Everyone's friends think they know about smash, but they know nothing. You are not alone.

Solution?

Make friends with those in the smash community. Then you can actually have intelligent debates about character match-ups. Not silly arguments about something that has already been established as a fact.
 

balladechina212

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
680
Location
Chicago, IL
Good spacing allows Marth to chain Peach across Final Destination with shorthop-double fairs. Just keep swiping those aerials and Marth >>> Peach.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
Luck: You can pretty much just wait for this thread to die now. Marth > Peach.

Fact.
 

Eggz

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Messages
8,277
Location
Combo Status Island
Well, maybe what he is looking for is reasons to tell his friends. You guys bantering about "How his friend is dumb" and what not isn't going to stop his friend from bothering him.

randommarth said:
Make friends with those in the smash community. Then you can actually have intelligent debates about character match-ups. Not silly arguments about something that has already been established as a fact.
I don't know what kind of heartless person would throw away a friend just because he can't debate character matchups LOL.

Anyway, what marth has on peach:

Marth's amazing KO power basically negates peach's ability to live long. Especially on smaller stages.

Marth's combos on peach further negate her ability to survive. The more combo-ability, the faster the percent rises, and in turn, the faster peach dies.

Marth's D-air is a good combo finisher in general, but especially on peach, since her primarily horizontal recovery won't help her get up after getting spiked, even at low percents.

Marth's range ***** Peach. Like none of her hitboxes can hit a well spaced anything from Marth

Marth can simply jab away turnips.

It is very difficult for peach to ledgeguard Marth, as she relys on outprioritizing recoveries.
 

Luck-NYC/NJ

Smash Lord
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
1,745
Location
BergenField, Bergen County(North East Jersey)
yea guys relax i mean hes not a noob. hes better then me he just feels that peach counters marth because of the few things she does well against him. anyway now that im absolutly sure that Marth>Peach yes this thread is officially dead.

BTW emblem lord if u could give me a lift to the TSA biweekly this sat much abliged cuz i definatly wanna go and the same friend who thought Peach>Marth wats to go to so. please convince someone to give me a ride!!!!
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
Eggz: Relax I was just joking about dumping his friend. BTW I like how you changed my name in my quote to a randommarth. Good stuff trying to make it look like my opinion isn't valid.
 

Eggz

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Messages
8,277
Location
Combo Status Island
Actually I type my quotes manually and I didn't remember your name. Way to toss aside my accurate implications though.
 

KrazyKnux

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
1,489
Looking at our handy-dandy little tier list we have compiled for us from pros and such, lets looksie...

Marth
^
Peach

Therefore Marth > Peach, just like Marth > a ton of other charies. That's why he is top tier people.
That's not very good logic. That's like saying sheik > ice climbers because she's higher on the tier list. But regardless, Marth does beat Peach in that particular matchup.
 

RT

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,673
Location
...
NNID
Rockettrainer
3DS FC
4038-6677-8162
Marth countering Peach? I wouldn't say counter...more like Marth has a slight advantage.
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
8,377
Location
Long Beach,California
Looking at our handy-dandy little tier list we have compiled for us from pros and such, lets looksie...

Marth
^
Peach

Therefore Marth > Peach, just like Marth > a ton of other charies. That's why he is top tier people.
You couldn't have made your self look any more ignorent...

But anyway,Peach>Marth? Bah...

She can get combo'd like hell,and Marth's range and speed negates Peach's turnips.
 

TierWhore

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
362
Location
Bronx, Ny
The friend of THN

Actually, allegedly according to M2K, Peach>Marth. This information came from one of M2K's friends who i know.

Neways...
I think it's peach over marth because marth cannot edgegaurd peach effectively, do to the fact that she can automatically sweetspot the ledge from underneath it, underneath the reach of Marth's Sword, not to mention the fact that she can generally just float above him. Yes it's true that marth combos peach well, however, this is only true at lower percentages. Normally, comboing at lower percentages is all that is required, given that marth can edgegaurd so well, but against peach, all the comboing normally just leads to a peach at high percentage unless the combo ends in a forward smash or spike. Once at high percentage, peach becomes incredibly hard to kill, unusually hard because of her amazing recovery. Marth can only kill peach with a couple of attacks. Assuming the marth is at high percentage as well, this would mean that the peach player would only have to be seriously concerned about 1 or 2 attacks, while the marth player would have to be concerned about any of peach's attacks, given they can all kill him. Needless to say, marth is also very easy to edgegaurd given the downsmash spike and turnips.

This information is just due to my experience, and I don't claim to be knowledgable about smash. However, most of the people who posted on this didn't give a reason for why Marth>Peach, i guess assuming that it was obvious. I still find it hard to believe that marth's range alone is capable of evening out, and even giving him the advantage against peach, but that's just me.
 

The Newb

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Messages
713
Location
Mechanicsville, VA
I don't think peach has the advantage over marth, but then again, I also don't think marth has the advantage over peach. Their strengths, marth's ridiculous range and edge guarding, peach's ridiculous survivability and recovery, take precedent at different points in the match.

If a Marth is good at killing Peach at low percents, then the Marth will win fairly easily. Respectively, most Marth's have a very hard time killing Peach at low percents, and thus, when Peach reaches high percents, the tables turn. Like TierWhore said, peach only has to fear two to three moves of Marth's while Marth has to pretty much avoid getting hit by anything, space everything perfectly, and do absolutely nothing without thinking five seconds ahead of time.

It also depends on the stage, too. Mute City, Jungle Japes, Dream land; You can only ban one, which would you ban. On any one of those stages a Peach has a significant advantage, and Marth has to do pretty much everything possible to not get 3-4 stocked.
 

_umbra_

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
2,024
Location
Duryea, PA
Apparently, a thread in the peach forums wasn't enough lol. Anyway, Marth > Peach, but not a huge advantage, if the peach can play smart. Good DI is the peach's best friend... if the marth can't kill peach at a low%, she becomes impossible to combo, and gets REALLY hard to kill. If the peach DIs well at high damages, she can survive for a while. IMO, marth does have the advantage, but it's not a huge one.
 

Tyson651

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,643
they are pretty much the same, since they both **** each other in certain ways, like peach's dash attack is designed to **** marth, whereas, marth can combo peach with fairs or chaingrab to tippers easily.
 

Smash G 0 D

Leave Luck to Heaven
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
3,571
Location
Charlottesville, VA
I just got back from a tourney yesterday and I learned something... Marth>>>Peach. I played mostly at FD and he combos her like omg. Chainthrows from 0% into Fsmash, tip or not, in Fair combos. Possibly a Ken combo..
 

Mar~

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
77
.......................................
 
Last edited:

The Newb

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Messages
713
Location
Mechanicsville, VA
I just got back from a tourney yesterday and I learned something... Marth>>>Peach. I played mostly at FD and he combos her like omg. Chainthrows from 0% into Fsmash, tip or not, in Fair combos. Possibly a Ken combo..
Yeah, you can rack up 60% real fast on peach but that doesn't make her any easier to kill unless you finish it with a spike. Most peaches will DI out of any such death. The faster you get 60% and don't kill Peach the faster she becomes hard to kill; I prefer to rack up damage slowly and go for the unexpected kill rather than do a fancy combo, hope they'll mess up the DI and get an unfortunate tipper.
 

TierWhore

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
362
Location
Bronx, Ny
Well, maybe what he is looking for is reasons to tell his friends. You guys bantering about "How his friend is dumb" and what not isn't going to stop his friend from bothering him.



I don't know what kind of heartless person would throw away a friend just because he can't debate character matchups LOL.

Anyway, what marth has on peach:

Marth's amazing KO power basically negates peach's ability to live long. Especially on smaller stages.

Marth's combos on peach further negate her ability to survive. The more combo-ability, the faster the percent rises, and in turn, the faster peach dies.

Marth's D-air is a good combo finisher in general, but especially on peach, since her primarily horizontal recovery won't help her get up after getting spiked, even at low percents.

Marth's range ***** Peach. Like none of her hitboxes can hit a well spaced anything from Marth

Marth can simply jab away turnips.

It is very difficult for peach to ledgeguard Marth, as she relys on outprioritizing recoveries.

I'll adress each issue one at a time so everyone can see where im coming from.

1.It is true that marth can kill peach well on smaller stages, however, on larger stages (we normally play on FD or Pokemon Stadium) it becomes incredibly hard to kill peach. Given the fact that marth can combo peach so easily, it is easy to rack up damage on her. However, once above 100 damage peach becomes impossible to kill with anything but a tipper or spike. That being said, unless i combo into a forward smash (i normally combo in the air) or dair (easy to avoid) peach will normally live until 150% at least.

2. The fact that peach is easy to combo, and therefore get to high percentage, is just helping the peach get impossible to kill. I could try not comboing until im sure that i can combo into a spike, but somehow that strikes me as ineffective.

3. It is true that the dair is very effective against peach, however, once again, unless i combo into one, it becomes very hard to just land a stray dair. When being edgegaurded at 100%, a peach will obviosly be looking out for a dair or forward smash, so it becomes even harder to dair her.

4.It is true that marth outranges peach, but in my opinion, this advantage is very overrated. Most of marth's attacks that can kill peach are very laggy (f smash, shieldbreaker etc.) therefore landing one becomes crucial, otherwise the peach will easily counter attack. Landing stray jabs and fairs is fine at high percentage, however, it won't do anything to help kill peach. Therefore the range is only effective at lower percentages, when it is impossible to kill peach anyways. (once again, unless comboed into.)

5. It's true that marth can jab away turnips, however, every turnip that is thrown at me is followed immediately by a float canceled fair. If i jab away the turnip i get decked in the face, leaving my only option dodging. Even catching the turnip is potentially dangerous, because the lag might just be enough to leave me open. That's what turnips are there for anyways, a distraction, while the peach charges up the real attack.

6.I don't think it is very difficult for peach to ledgegaurd marth. Regardless of what was said earlier, turnips do **** marth's recovery. One hit with a turnip and i'm basically dead. Sure i can swipe it, but i can only swipe one before losing height. The downsmash spike, although techable, is still a viable way to edgegaurd. And of course, a peach can just go out and float to bair marth. If marth fairs the peach's dair the marth will lose height anyway, making it even harder to recover. I know that you guys will say that if used correctly the fair will not make marth lose height, but that fact is very situational, because a lot of the time i don't have a jump or already used the second jump to fair a turnip etc.

Neways, that's just my two cents, im curious to hear what everyones says. Please don't just bash me and call me a nub because that won't help me understand your points any more. Anyway, if ur still reading this Emblem Lord, im curious to hear ur response as well.
 

The Newb

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Messages
713
Location
Mechanicsville, VA
I think you're over exaggerating the problems here, TierWhore.

You're going crazy about how lucky you have to be to land a killing move on peach at 100+%. If she's at that high percent, most moves of Marths will knock her off the stage. As long as you're decently close to the edge, you can go get her with a back, up, forward or neutral air. Also, peach is VERY vulnerable from Marth from the bottom, and up tilt is very fast and can kill at relatively low percentages...compared to most characters

If they're turnip spamming you, and they do the very cliche and predictable "Turnip to F-C F-air", jump backwards as the turnip gets to you with a neutral air. This blocks the turnip, and out prioritizes her forward air because of the disjointed hit box. Most people really don't use the neutral air enough.

If a Marth goes low vs a peach, but not so low as to get completely edge hogged, there really isn't much a peach can do. What you DO have to worry about though is if you're on the ledge and she's on the stage, she has about 1203123 moves that out prioritize and will kill Marth.
 

Mr.C

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
3,512
peach doesnt die intill 160% with proper di unless you tip a uptilt and thats like 135% -140%

if peach is spamming turnips and you hit one with a aerial besides a nair ur getting hit no matter what.
 

BurningCrusader777

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Messages
302
Location
New Jersey
Yeah, the answer is obvious. Marth outmatches Peach. He combos her to heck and back, and Marth easily edgeguards her recovery. As long as Marth keeps his space, then he wins. Most of the time.
 

Eggz

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Messages
8,277
Location
Combo Status Island
guy said:
I'll adress each issue one at a time so everyone can see where im coming from.

1.It is true that marth can kill peach well on smaller stages, however, on larger stages (we normally play on FD or Pokemon Stadium) it becomes incredibly hard to kill peach. Given the fact that marth can combo peach so easily, it is easy to rack up damage on her. However, once above 100 damage peach becomes impossible to kill with anything but a tipper or spike. That being said, unless i combo into a forward smash (i normally combo in the air) or dair (easy to avoid) peach will normally live until 150% at least.

2. The fact that peach is easy to combo, and therefore get to high percentage, is just helping the peach get impossible to kill. I could try not comboing until im sure that i can combo into a spike, but somehow that strikes me as ineffective.

3. It is true that the dair is very effective against peach, however, once again, unless i combo into one, it becomes very hard to just land a stray dair. When being edgegaurded at 100%, a peach will obviosly be looking out for a dair or forward smash, so it becomes even harder to dair her.

4.It is true that marth outranges peach, but in my opinion, this advantage is very overrated. Most of marth's attacks that can kill peach are very laggy (f smash, shieldbreaker etc.) therefore landing one becomes crucial, otherwise the peach will easily counter attack. Landing stray jabs and fairs is fine at high percentage, however, it won't do anything to help kill peach. Therefore the range is only effective at lower percentages, when it is impossible to kill peach anyways. (once again, unless comboed into.)

5. It's true that marth can jab away turnips, however, every turnip that is thrown at me is followed immediately by a float canceled fair. If i jab away the turnip i get decked in the face, leaving my only option dodging. Even catching the turnip is potentially dangerous, because the lag might just be enough to leave me open. That's what turnips are there for anyways, a distraction, while the peach charges up the real attack.

6.I don't think it is very difficult for peach to ledgegaurd marth. Regardless of what was said earlier, turnips do **** marth's recovery. One hit with a turnip and i'm basically dead. Sure i can swipe it, but i can only swipe one before losing height. The downsmash spike, although techable, is still a viable way to edgegaurd. And of course, a peach can just go out and float to bair marth. If marth fairs the peach's dair the marth will lose height anyway, making it even harder to recover. I know that you guys will say that if used correctly the fair will not make marth lose height, but that fact is very situational, because a lot of the time i don't have a jump or already used the second jump to fair a turnip etc.

Neways, that's just my two cents, im curious to hear what everyones says. Please don't just bash me and call me a nub because that won't help me understand your points any more. Anyway, if ur still reading this Emblem Lord, im curious to hear ur response as well.
I'll do the same.

Problem 1 and 2 and basically 3 said:
It is true that marth can kill peach well on smaller stages, however, on larger stages (we normally play on FD or Pokemon Stadium) it becomes incredibly hard to kill peach. Given the fact that marth can combo peach so easily, it is easy to rack up damage on her. However, once above 100 damage peach becomes impossible to kill with anything but a tipper or spike. That being said, unless i combo into a forward smash (i normally combo in the air) or dair (easy to avoid) peach will normally live until 150% at least.
Problem 1: Its your fault you only play on stages that are advantageous to peach.
Problem 2/3: Your strange idea that it is easier to kill peach at low percents is inaccurate. You need to become better at using more moves. Fair, Fsmash, Ftilt, Utilt, Nair, Uair, Bair, can all kill peach at higher percents. Just be patient and use your gigantic range that you have on peach. By the time she gets you up to 70% you'll have taken a stock. Besides, I doubt you actually ONLY rely on combos for KOs.

problems 4 said:
4.It is true that marth outranges peach, but in my opinion, this advantage is very overrated. Most of marth's attacks that can kill peach are very laggy (f smash, shieldbreaker etc.) therefore landing one becomes crucial, otherwise the peach will easily counter attack. Landing stray jabs and fairs is fine at high percentage, however, it won't do anything to help kill peach. Therefore the range is only effective at lower percentages, when it is impossible to kill peach anyways. (once again, unless comboed into.)
Problem 4/5/6: All of these complain about turnips. Basically heres what you do.

Catch them.

Peach throws a turnip at you and comes in with a fair, you double jump, catch the turnip (no lag btw), throw it at her and attack or retreat.

Your recovering, Peach throws a turnip, you catch it. You can catch things out of tumble, so its not a problem at all. Swiping them away is pointless when you can avoid lag, obtain a projectile, and eliminate problems recovering.

EDIT: Also, M2K has ******** views on matchups. He also claims that Shiek VS Mario is in Mario's advantage. Fraid not.
 

Mr.C

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
3,512
marth has one of the slowest throws in the game

if your going to catch the turnip you do not throw it, you z drop it.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
TierWhore: There is no need for me to repost what Eggz has already said.

He's got it covered.
 

TierWhore

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
362
Location
Bronx, Ny
All this is a moot (spelling?) point now anyway, because the original poster already got what he needed out of it. After speaking with m2k and others, THN has now realized that peach does in fact **** marth. If you need proof of this or reasons, feel free to pm m2k i guess.
 

Mr.C

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
3,512
Peach doesnt **** marth lols

its pretty close to even, being in marths advantage but to little to notice.

It all really depends who your playing and if they are good vs marth/peach etc.
 
Top Bottom