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Doc advice welcome (vids)

Dx-pyrohunter64

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
76
Location
Washington
Got my friends to come over and we were only gonna play for a bit, but ended up recording around 4-5 hours of melee stuff.

Anyways Critique, rate, etc.

I have more videos that I'll add later

Doc vs Falco
Doc vs Falco 2
Doc vs Falco 3

And yeah...I know the quality isn't too good (though it is watchable) but I'm workin on gettin it better so my vids after these will look alot better. Still tryin out my capture device.

Thanks ^^
 

Zeonix

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2008
Messages
174
Location
West Hartford, CT and NoCo, NH
Just watched Doc vs. Falco, heres what I have to say.

1. My friend plays a better Falco then Pmp (sorry)

2. I feel like if Doc was my main that I could be better then that (sorry again)

3. But nice work ofstage with Doc. I like the kill to get Falco to 1 stock.

4. The SD by Pmp at the end was a horrible ending, lol.
 

Dx-pyrohunter64

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
76
Location
Washington
1) he's workin on his falco

2)Ditto ^ except I'm working on my doc

3) lol thanks, I love dtilt kills

4)yes it was lol XD
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Okay, match one.

Ummm... chaingrab? You grabbed him at a decent percentage, you should've been able to do it. I think you can pretty much zero to death him if you switch to dthrow at around... sixty, I think the number was. We're ah... still waiting for a certain someone to finish writing the new Doc guide.

You use your doublejump too much. Wiggle out of tumble, don't just jump. If he sends you off the edge, you're done.

No pills? Fulljump pills will give him something to consider, and you can use that to push the match in your favor.

Don't screw around near the edge against Falco. It really doesn't bring you any benefit unless you're under full control of the situation, which you aren't.

You're way too stationary. Dashdance.

If they miss a tech, jab, then prepare to grab. Elementary stuff. You need to make grabs count against Falco. They're key to winning this matchup.

Dash attack is not such a great option. It's laggy and doesn't really set up for anything. Try a jump cancel usmash or a grab instead.

Super Sheet doesn't actually help your recovery. Also, why're you randomly using it? It's kinda punishable... learn to powershield instead.

...stop falling for the jab on shield to fsmash. Or at least come up with better responses.

Also, Zeonix, way to be an unhelpful jerk =P
 

SpruceTengu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
269
Location
Eastern MA
I agree with most of Elven's points here. I would DEFINITELY start FJ pilling all over a Falco; if you can time it right you can go right over his lasers that way and start seriously crippling him with some % and interrupts of his movement. Caping is a good idea with the lasers when done tastefully, though I wouldn't reccomend going out of your way to do it or doing it straight from the ground; this get's kind of risky and leaves you stationary. As for the dashdancing point, meh, you -could- dashdance, but I've always found a ****load of wavedashing to work a bit better with doc, anyway. Dashdancing is better when you're reading techs for grabs, etc. As for reading techs and grabs, uhhh... definitely try to do some more grabbing, Chaingrabs or otherwise. Doc's got some nasty stuff out of grabs against falco.

I, for one, would encourage you to use the cape and not argue that it'll get you ****ed up, but you do have to use it wisely. Try to only use it in the air (it can be wavelanded this way, which I think takes alot of the risk out) and only when you -know- other modes of evasion or attack are inconvenient. Also, I think it's reasonable to use in recovery, but not to help you gain further ground. It stops your DI short, so often times it can mess you up. In disagreement with Elven, though, it's not going to straight up screw you over, so I wouldn't listen to that. It isn't, however, an awesome recovery move. What it can do for you is add some timing mindgames, delaying your recovery a frame or two so you can pop up -after- your opponent has jumped the gun and thrown out their ledeguarding attack. This, again, must be used wisely, and if done too often, will just have your opponent waiting you out every time. It's a mindgames tool here, not a legit recovery technique.

Your doc looks reasonably fast, which is awesome. I'm tempted to ask if you've always been a Doc main, since your tech seems pretty on, but alot of doc-specific things are pretty off. I'd recommend checking out the Doc Q&A forums to look at alot of Doc combos against certain matchups and how to play him therein. You seem to know how to move a character around, but not how to use his quirks to really **** someone up. Also, yeah, try to use the DJ more sparingly, since it might get you pwned, especially against someone who's as aggressive as Falco.

I think it looks like a pretty **** good aspiring doc though; main things to look at are what Doc CAN do that other character's can't. Good luck, keep up the good work. : )
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
In my defense, I said for him to stop caping because he wasn't hitting lasers or Falco with the cape. He was just caping. And that's just giving your opponent lag to punish.
 

Dx-pyrohunter64

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
76
Location
Washington
Okay, match one.

Ummm... chaingrab? You grabbed him at a decent percentage, you should've been able to do it. I think you can pretty much zero to death him if you switch to dthrow at around... sixty, I think the number was. We're ah... still waiting for a certain someone to finish writing the new Doc guide.
I tried chain grabbing earlier before those matches and he was getting out of them so I just stopped. But I guess that was just me messing up so I'll work on that =P


You use your doublejump too much. Wiggle out of tumble, don't just jump. If he sends you off the edge, you're done.
Ok got it.

No pills? Fulljump pills will give him something to consider, and you can use that to push the match in your favor.
I'll keep that in mind.

Don't screw around near the edge against Falco. It really doesn't bring you any benefit unless you're under full control of the situation, which you aren't.
I'm usually more comfortable near the edge lol XD but I understand what you mean since I've gotten screwed over a buncha times just for being there. I'll try and stay farther from the edges.

You're way too stationary. Dashdance.
That's something I noticed after my first time watching my recorded match. I try to not stay stationary sometimes but I end up focusing too much on my opponent and just forget to move around sometimes I guess lol

If they miss a tech, jab, then prepare to grab. Elementary stuff. You need to make grabs count against Falco. They're key to winning this matchup.
Ok

Dash attack is not such a great option. It's laggy and doesn't really set up for anything. Try a jump cancel usmash or a grab instead.
I don't know why I never thought of doing a jump canceled up smash lol
I'll try that.

Super Sheet doesn't actually help your recovery. Also, why're you randomly using it? It's kinda punishable... learn to powershield instead.
I thought it did? lol guess not. Well I'm randomly using it because before these matches he's been spamming sh lasers on me and it was getting really annoying so I started caping preemptively after a bit. But yeah it'd make more sense to try to powershield them instead like you suggested.

...stop falling for the jab on shield to fsmash. Or at least come up with better responses.
lol XD yeah I'll work on that.


I agree with most of Elven's points here. I would DEFINITELY start FJ pilling all over a Falco; if you can time it right you can go right over his lasers that way and start seriously crippling him with some % and interrupts of his movement. Caping is a good idea with the lasers when done tastefully, though I wouldn't reccomend going out of your way to do it or doing it straight from the ground; this get's kind of risky and leaves you stationary. As for the dashdancing point, meh, you -could- dashdance, but I've always found a ****load of wavedashing to work a bit better with doc, anyway. Dashdancing is better when you're reading techs for grabs, etc. As for reading techs and grabs, uhhh... definitely try to do some more grabbing, Chaingrabs or otherwise. Doc's got some nasty stuff out of grabs against falco.
Ok so FJ pills are something I'll try and use more often lol. Yeah I'm trying to be less stationary, so I'll try DD and WD more.

I, for one, would encourage you to use the cape and not argue that it'll get you ****ed up, but you do have to use it wisely. Try to only use it in the air (it can be wavelanded this way, which I think takes alot of the risk out) and only when you -know- other modes of evasion or attack are inconvenient. Also, I think it's reasonable to use in recovery, but not to help you gain further ground. It stops your DI short, so often times it can mess you up. In disagreement with Elven, though, it's not going to straight up screw you over, so I wouldn't listen to that. It isn't, however, an awesome recovery move. What it can do for you is add some timing mindgames, delaying your recovery a frame or two so you can pop up -after- your opponent has jumped the gun and thrown out their ledeguarding attack. This, again, must be used wisely, and if done too often, will just have your opponent waiting you out every time. It's a mindgames tool here, not a legit recovery technique.
I'll work on caping less/at better times then =] thanks

Your doc looks reasonably fast, which is awesome. I'm tempted to ask if you've always been a Doc main, since your tech seems pretty on, but alot of doc-specific things are pretty off. I'd recommend checking out the Doc Q&A forums to look at alot of Doc combos against certain matchups and how to play him therein. You seem to know how to move a character around, but not how to use his quirks to really **** someone up. Also, yeah, try to use the DJ more sparingly, since it might get you pwned, especially against someone who's as aggressive as Falco.
Well back when I got into competitive smash I started out as C. Falcon. This was around...early 2006 lol, I didn't join till later that year. Funny thing is I felt like I had to switch characters because I couldn't get a handle of the technical side starting out with Falcon lol. So I just tried every character out and the Doc just kinda fit. I started usin him around early 2007 but I've only been to 2 smash fests and played with good people this whole time lol.

lol yeah I'll work on those things XD

I think it looks like a pretty **** good aspiring doc though; main things to look at are what Doc CAN do that other character's can't. Good luck, keep up the good work. : )
Thanks =]

Thanks guys XD I got some things to go off of here, just need to practice some more.
Doc boards ftw XD
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
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Super Sheet doesn't actually help your recovery. Also, why're you randomly using it? It's kinda punishable... learn to powershield instead.
I just happened to be thumbing through here and caught this.

Cape does help your recovery, but only on the first time you use it in one "rep". One rep being from time your feet leave the ground till you hit the ground again.

The thing is, with doc's cape, you BARELY get any lift. It's better to say it stalls you a little bit (which since you still can get horizontal movement, helps your recovery).


 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
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I just think you should work on your techskill, both of you. Its kind of hard to do a good critique when we see that you mess up wavedashes and your opponent doesn't do what his character should do to win.

and zeonix wtf, noone gives a **** if your friend plays a better falco or if you could play a better doc
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
I just happened to be thumbing through here and caught this.

Cape does help your recovery, but only on the first time you use it in one "rep". One rep being from time your feet leave the ground till you hit the ground again.

The thing is, with doc's cape, you BARELY get any lift. It's better to say it stalls you a little bit (which since you still can get horizontal movement, helps your recovery).


Huh, really? I coulda sworn I read that the first one was purely a stall and the second one caused you to drop... I feel like if the first one actually helped, you should be able to ledgedrop into it and regrab without the double jump, but that's not the case.

and zeonix wtf, noone gives a **** if your friend plays a better falco or if you could play a better doc
Haha, that's what I was trying to say, just a little nicer =P
 

Dogysamich

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Huh, really? I coulda sworn I read that the first one was purely a stall and the second one caused you to drop... I feel like if the first one actually helped, you should be able to ledgedrop into it and regrab without the double jump, but that's not the case.
That's what i said. You can only do it once before you have to hit the ground again. And the first one only stalls, but you still get horizontal distance.

And if you think it doesnt help, go ledgehop a cape, and then get back to the ledge. Then, without going onto the stage, do it again. See what happens.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
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Well... just 'cause the second one hurts doesn't mean the first one helps... I'm just saying like... you can regrab with Marth's side B without jumping.
 

Dogysamich

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that's because you get lift from marth's side-b. Same as marios.

I DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO TELL YOU OTHER THAN IT HELPS, GOD.

IM NOT THE MAFIA. IF YOU GUYS EXECUTE ME, YOU'RE ****ED.
[/nicaboy defense][/georgia jokes]
 

Roman.

Smash Champion
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elven basically doc goes a certain amount horizontally and vertically when you're falling. When you cape, you stall vertically but continue to go horizontally enough that it helps more than if you didn't cape. Basically, it's a terrible version of luigi's side b.
 

nicaboy

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channeling death lotus
that's because you get lift from marth's side-b. Same as marios.

I DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO TELL YOU OTHER THAN IT HELPS, GOD.

IM NOT THE MAFIA. IF YOU GUYS EXECUTE ME, YOU'RE ****ED.
[/nicaboy defense][/georgia jokes]
man i came through here since i picked up doc and i see this instead god **** gotta love ga:laugh:
 

Dogysamich

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man i came through here since i picked up doc and i see this instead god **** gotta love ga:laugh:
LOLOLOLOL ARE YOU SERIOUS!!?!??!

Are you sure you didnt just forum search your name?!

*laughs and falls out of chair* My bad man, the Nicaboy defense is too ****in good!
 

nicaboy

Smash Champion
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LOLOLOLOL ARE YOU SERIOUS!!?!??!

Are you sure you didnt just forum search your name?!

*laughs and falls out of chair* My bad man, the Nicaboy defense is too ****in good!

ya i very serious i really picked u doc for no reason what so ever. doc ditto so you can teach me stuff. but seriously i ****in love ga
 

Dogysamich

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You should already know my #1 tip for doc.

"Pick up the icon and put it somewhere else."

But yeah, if you go to TO4 i could show you some stuffffff
or, it could happen at IC3
 
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