Do you think ryu is going to be top tier

[gameplayzero]

I know its day 2, but I honestly feel like people are overhyping him. He has some apparent flaws like his air game and lack of range. He seems like he excels as a punisher and decent at playing footsies, but he still has to get in. Fireball isn't as good as it is in SF (since smash isn't purely just horizontal and more reflector based characters) so he can't use range as pressure tool against certain characters. He is obviously strong, but top 5 seems like its stretching it a bit.


What do you think? I know more Advanced tech will be found, but lets just make a guess right now and see who is right in the future.

 

[Deleted member]

For those who can use him just right, yes. I predict Ryu is going to be nearing top 5.

 

[gameplayzero]

For those who can use him just right, yes. I predict Ryu is going to be nearing top 5.

I can't wait in the future to see ryu's full potential. Whether he turns out to be eh, good, or amazing I love his complexity.

 

[redcometchar]

I don't know if he is going to be better than shiek/rosaluma but definitely high tier.

 

[Lil Puddin]

Ryu has a lot of tools. He's basically Zelda tier when it comes to severe punishing; early kills when done right. Except he's actually good. His air game is ok enough to approach and lead into his great ground game. He also has a projectile with two different properties so he can harass people from afar. He has good speed behind his moves too.

IMO he is in the top 10.

 

[PokemonyeWest]

Meh, it's far too early to tell. This is all purely speculative.

 

[Kielhaul]

He has so much potential. Once someone learns him thoroughly we will see very high level play. He's the King of Combos and has lots of mix ups. plus a shield breaking tilt. Ryu could be top 5 easy.

 

[~Burst~]

To be honest, no.
His recovery options are about as bad as lil mac's and he has safer options and an insta ko option.
Obviously Ryu has better air to air options but we'll see.
I feel like he will be upper mid or slightly below mac.
Hadoken is among the worst projectiles in the game.
All of them can be stopped with a jab or another projectile. I feel like that shouldn't have even been the case. They should have been transcendent. The character is known for his fireball that you can't force your way through. Though you can follow up after a light Shakunetsu glide forward most of the cast is too short and it would go through their head since the the aura under the fireball does not have a hitbox(Its also hard as hell to get the lowest possible glide forward) as seen in image. Before its even in that range though they can just hit with any attack and Ryu will still be cooldown (yes even Shakunetsu ). I might be bias but you shouldn't be able to force your way through fire ball. It should act like Megaman's Charge shot(F smash). I feel like his entire kit revolvers around your opponent trying to get around fireball. Hard uptilt is an amazing anti air option, the hit box is very deceptive but its hard to get people to jump in at you from where it works.

Another issue is Ryu's hitlag on shield. I originally thought you could use the soft tilts fast enough the simulate a multi hit attack but the game pauses just ryu on each hit when they're blocking, this is with all attacks. This increases how unsafe his options are. They can just press A and grab punish you while you're stuck in hit lag and I don't understand why.
Focus attack might be why he is the way he is but eh. Obviously this is only the end of day 2 but this is my opinion of him as of right now.

 

[Kielhaul]

Though you can follow up after a light Shakunetsu glide forward most of the cast is too short and it would go through their head since the the aura under the fireball does not have a hitbox(Its also hard as hell to get the lowest possible glide forward) as seen in image.

Umm I don't know what you're talking about, kirby is shorter than duck hunt and the Shakunetsu hits him fine unless he's ducking. Why would they ever make a projectile that can't hit every standing cast member? Also, the Hadoken is not suppose to be used like other projectiles; you use it to fit into combos like the actual street fighter game. You don't just throw out streams of specials there, you'll lose. You're entitled to your opinion it is fairly early for him so yeah meta has not even come close to introducing him. It'll be some time before people really see everything Ryu can do.

 

[Neoxon]

I want to say yes, but it's way too early to tell.

 

[onehundredhitz]

To be honest, no.
His recovery options are about as bad as lil mac's and he has safer options and an insta ko option.
Obviously Ryu has better air to air options but we'll see.
I feel like he will be upper mid or slightly below mac.
Hadoken is among the worst projectiles in the game.
All of them can be stopped with a jab or another projectile. I feel like that shouldn't have even been the case. They should have been transcendent. The character is known for his fireball that you can't force your way through. Though you can follow up after a light Shakunetsu glide forward most of the cast is too short and it would go through their head since the the aura under the fireball does not have a hitbox(Its also hard as hell to get the lowest possible glide forward) as seen in image. Before its even in that range though they can just hit with any attack and Ryu will still be cooldown (yes even Shakunetsu ). I might be bias but you shouldn't be able to force your way through fire ball. It should act like Megaman's Charge shot(F smash). I feel like his entire kit revolvers around your opponent trying to get around fireball. Hard uptilt is an amazing anti air option, the hit box is very deceptive but its hard to get people to jump in at you from where it works.

Another issue is Ryu's hitlag on shield. I originally thought you could use the soft tilts fast enough the simulate a multi hit attack but the game pauses just ryu on each hit when they're blocking, this is with all attacks. This increases how unsafe his options are. They can just press A and grab punish you while you're stuck in hit lag and I don't understand why.
Focus attack might be why he is the way he is but eh. Obviously this is only the end of day 2 but this is my opinion of him as of right now.

His recovery defecates all over Mac's. You get knocked off screen, FADC forward, traditional tatsu forward (or side b if you're scared), and then DP. You'll make it back more often than not.

 

[~Burst~]

Umm I don't know what you're talking about, kirby is shorter than duck hunt and the Shakunetsu hits him fine unless he's ducking. Why would they ever make a projectile that can't hit every standing cast member? Also, the Hadoken is not suppose to be used like other projectiles; you use it to fit into combos like the actual street fighter game. You don't just throw out streams of specials there, you'll lose. You're entitled to your opinion it is fairly early for him so yeah meta has not even come close to introducing him. It'll be some time before people really see everything Ryu can do.

You cannot short hop glide forward and hit kirby. Show me a in a video and ill believe you. I've been trying for hours.
Hadoken in SF games are used as a zoning tool and block strings not combos unless its ex.
I would know since I actually play ultra. Similarly to ultra, Why use hadoken when you can use tatsu or shoryuken for more damage and positional? Pointless.

His recovery defecates all over Mac's. You get knocked off screen, FADC forward, traditional tatsu forward (or side b if you're scared), and then DP. You'll make it back more often than not.

Tatsu is probably more punishable than luigi's missile and goes through less range. There is a reason people say luigi has a bad recovery even though he goes a good distance, ryu covers even less distance and needs to commit to them at a higher height. I'd rather have a counter that launches me forward to scare people from just throwing out hitboxes than having a side b where I'm hoping they miss a free punish.

 

[Kielhaul]

You cannot short hop glide forward and hit kirby. Show me a in a video and ill believe you. I've been trying for hours.
Hadoken in SF games are used as a zoning tool and block strings not combos unless its ex.
I would know since I actually play ultra. Similarly to ultra, Why use hadoken when you can use tatsu or shoryuken for more damage and positional? Pointless.

Totally my bad, I misread the short hope glide. No you're right there. But none the less some characters have specials that are just never used. Take Ness, no one uses PK flash and he's top tier. I still believe Ryu has enough combo potential to be viable.

 

[ChickenJon]

I feel like he will be upper mid or slightly below mac.

Little mac is dead last atm, so slightly below little mac would be dead last lol.

 

[Mr_Parchy]

Little mac is dead last atm, so slightly below little mac would be dead last lol.

Can you link me to a tier list where mac is dead last? I would like to see that

 

[Alphicans]

I think he'll end up around Falcon level, probably slightly lower. Hadouken is a joke for sure though... I'd say the only use for it is to use the slow variation of it and use it to like cover techs and force shields that you can advance on.

SideB is only good out of dtilt, or maybe as a surprise anti air option, but overall the move is really brutal. Focus attack has a little potential but overall is brutal. Ryu's saving grace is his upB. Having jab/dtilt/utilt into it at any % is godlike, you can hit confirm kills at 100% or lower, which is something pretty much no character can claim to have. Other than that he struggles vs characters that can zone you out, or really excel at juggling because his range is subpar and his landings options are ABYSMAL, like ACTUALLY worse than little macs.

 

[~Burst~]

Yeah its hard since people still aren't sure of a good way to approach. One poorly spaced option and you're dying.
Focus attack is decent if you're still in the air above the stage but it drops you like a rock. If you use it off stage you're probably gonna die since tatsu has a ton of lag before you can act out of it and it brings you lower than you started.

 

[gameplayzero]

Umm I don't know what you're talking about, kirby is shorter than duck hunt and the Shakunetsu hits him fine unless he's ducking. Why would they ever make a projectile that can't hit every standing cast member? Also, the Hadoken is not suppose to be used like other projectiles; you use it to fit into combos like the actual street fighter game. You don't just throw out streams of specials there, you'll lose. You're entitled to your opinion it is fairly early for him so yeah meta has not even come close to introducing him. It'll be some time before people really see everything Ryu can do.

Hadoken was a pressure tool in street fighter, as well as a mind game for anti-air setups. Hadoken isn't that great here except for a combo extender (and even then I don't think its that great for that here compared to his other options). I agree with burst that it shouldn't be simply jabbed out of. Thats rather silly since ryu's approach options are rather "eh" imo.

 

[AmishTechnology]

his landings options are ABYSMAL, like ACTUALLY worse than little macs.

Eh, really? With his aerial frame data and FA + FADC options? Feels like he has a SIGNIFICANTLY easier time landing than, say, pre-1.08 Falco (no idea how he fares now, that buffed nair might be his saving grace) or Mewtwo (who also has his side B to at least stall in the air).

I think he's basically a better Mario with similar weaknesses in that he has short range relative to the rest of the good characters (even the short-ranged top tiers have immense speed to give them incredible map control and "range") and a rather meh recovery, maybe slightly worse than Mario but still around that level.

 

[~Burst~]

Eh, really? With his aerial frame data and FA + FADC options? Feels like he has a SIGNIFICANTLY easier time landing than, say, pre-1.08 Falco (no idea how he fares now, that buffed nair might be his saving grace) or Mewtwo (who also has his side B to at least stall in the air).

I think he's basically a better Mario with similar weaknesses in that he has short range relative to the rest of the good characters (even the short-ranged top tiers have immense speed to give them incredible map control and "range") and a rather meh recovery, maybe slightly worse than Mario but still around that level.

That may be the frame data on wiff but since they left hitstopping on shield hits you can add that to how long it takes to act of out it. It looks so stupid. Seriously go in training mode and set it to 1/4 drop nair and shield on a second controller and you will see him just pause in the air while you can shield drop and punish,easy.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Tatsu is probably more punishable than luigi's missile and goes through less range. There is a reason people say luigi has a bad recovery even though he goes a good distance, ryu covers even less distance and needs to commit to them at a higher height. I'd rather have a counter that launches me forward to scare people from just throwing out hitboxes than having a side b where I'm hoping they miss a free punish.

Good! You can tatsu first THEN FADC! Or hell, do your true SRK with invul!

His recovery ****s on Mac's period, mostly because he has one. It's nothing amazing (I'd say it's above average) but it's a recovery. He's mostly vertically challenged (which no one has brought up, wowser) as far as recovery goes. Being unsafe on shield is something I'd be more concerned about if most of the cast wasn't already unsafe on it to begin with, it's still a flaw but it's in a relative sense mostly negligible since shield pressure is really only possible with projectiles in this game.

Ryu's probably going to remain high tier, he has some issues but his reward when he gets in is so absurd that he's going to be viable IMO for the entirity of the game. No character can boast Ryu's damage and confirms into specials for KOs on a cast wide basis as well as shield options like Fair OoS that can do up to 30% with additional followups (40% if you're precise and they're on the ground when you initiate it). This character absolutely destroys anyone when he gets in like, outside of Sheik and maybe Pika.

IMO Ryu's landing options vary depending on MU. If you're fighting someone who's going to throw out multihits on landing then it can be hard but honestly Ryu has an airdash and a second jump so I'm not sure anyways. FADC -> Airdash is a strong option even in neutral and it's no different in disadvantage (plus you can absorb a kill move if you're at death % and they throw a single hit kill move out and you FADC). Having a Frame 6 Fair that's about Sheik Fair (if not longer) range also helps him, mostly cause it's like a supercharged Sex kick that you can throw on reaction to beat stuff.

 

[~Burst~]

Shoryu is only an option when you're near the ledge. idk why people say just shoryu like they can do it from anywhere, its not an option when trying to get to ledge range. You can literally camp on the ledge and when he uses tatsu back air him.

I'm pretty sure they didn't mean to leave hit stop on on shield attacks, unsafe on everything. I was wondering why nothing I did worked. I had to go through hitstop and landing lag in order to act again. This includes smash attacks.

 

[_luke_im_vaders_son_]

Call me crazy, but iI think that in the right hands he could be one of, if not, the best. Its too early to tell, but I want to see this character go far and have someone push his limits.

 

[meleebrawler]

I know that people were hyped for pretty much the definitive example of a fighting game projectile in Smash
and expected it to be super good, but the truth is hadoken comes from a game where dodging such projectiles
is very limited; invincible burst movements like rolling were limited to specific characters and jumping was a big commitment,
doing so towards Ryu on reaction usually resulted in a dragon uppercut to the face.

It most certainly is NOT transcendent in Street Fighter either, there's a reason the term "fireball wars" exists.

As it is, Hadoken is still fairly good at helping him dictate the pace of a match as well as tacking on safe damage,
but here just as in Street Fighter, there are characters who are better at that than him. And projectiles are easier to deal
with here than in any Street Fighter game or even other Smash games.

 

[.Shìkì]

Shoryu is only an option when you're near the ledge. idk why people say just shoryu like they can do it from anywhere, its not an option when trying to get to ledge range. You can literally camp on the ledge and when he uses tatsu back air him.

I'm pretty sure they didn't mean to leave hit stop on on shield attacks, unsafe on everything. I was wondering why nothing I did worked. I had to go through hitstop and landing lag in order to act again. This includes smash attacks.

... you do know there are different ranges for both tatsu AND Shoryu, right? You can short tatsu second jump shoryu, you can long tatsu second jump shoryu, you can just second jump shoryu, it is all possible. The recovery is AWESOME, because the path is never fully predicatble, and if someone goes deep to punish your shoryu...well, input one has invincibility frames. This is the typical case of "Villagers recovery sucks so hard, you can just pop the ballons" from release. Ryu's recovery is above average. Approaching against Projectile-users and characters with a lot of reach is more of a problem than recovery.

 

[SixSaw]

We won't know for a while unless a top player picks him up.

you use it to fit into combos like the actual street fighter game. You don't just throw out streams of specials there, you'll lose.

Haha good one.

his landings options are ABYSMAL, like ACTUALLY worse than little macs.

But air focus is one of the best landing options in the game?

 

[~Burst~]

Never said it was transcendent in street fighter I said it should have been in this game. Since it would have similar results to street fighter I don't see the problem having that since there are other projectiles that do this. Pretty sure you can't punch a fire ball in street fighter which is the point I was getting at why would you allow people to do it now? Especially when you can only have 1 on the screen at once. The only thing interacting with a fireball is a fireball or a reflector which is pretty much what transcendence is in smash minus a move with similar properties acting on the same plain. Even if it did have transcendence perfect shielding is in the game and they can still be reflected.
The point I'm getting at is why would you make it even easier to deal with a projectile by not giving it this property if it is indeed easy to deal with them?

 

[IrkenPPG]

Ryu is amazing so far, I know it is still day 2, but he has amazing combo potential, amazing strength, and fast attacks. However his recovery isn't that great, and his air game could be slightly improved. But besides that he is looking to be an instant top 10 fighter. Maybe even top 5.

 

[Deleted member]

While it's definitely way too early to tell, I do think that Ryu is going to be one of the best characters in the game. He has a lot of good KO moves, decent specials that can become better, and a crapton of combos to boot. He is just going to be an incredibly complex character to play. But, in the right hands, a professional Ryu will be a force to be reckoned with.
I honestly think that he will make this game's top five, if not be high tier. It just depends on how he fares against other top tiers, especially Diddy Kong, Sheik, and Rosalina.

 

[GirugaMarc]

Nope. He lacks what makes top tiers top.

Zoning capability very linear. Fireball is weak with a lot of recovery. Can be hit away and even mega man's pea shooter of an AAA move will make it go away. (Also he can't tatsu through MM's AAA. Why)

Weak tilts have zero range and can probably still be shield grabbed.

IMO his only exceptionally good normal is strong A (the roundhouse)

Recovery is less than average.

Air options sort of suck. F.Air is okay I guess

Down smash is weak and only hits on one side, making reads harder.

Focus Attack will be rendered completely useless. No one with multi-hitting moves (i.e. everyone) will have to worry about it.

I've yet to determine how useful his shield breaking move will be as I haven't had many opportunities to land it.

He's mid tier and he'll be phased out from competitive smash in a month's time.

If you could do the input shoryu OOS then he'd definitely be better. Is there any way to do this?

 

[abit_rusty]

high end mid tier reliant on good fundamentals

but if you wanted that and then some why not just go falcon

 

[Alphicans]

But air focus is one of the best landing options in the game?

Uhhhh...? Not even close? Multihit moves or a grab is gonna deal with it no problem.

 

[S_B]

I'm looking forward to the first batch of tournaments where good players take him in.

He's a lot like Snake in terms of potential: he has a dizzying number of tools at his disposal, but we won't really know for sure how far those tools will take him until after top players have spent a good amount of time in the lab with him.

 

[ADAPT Chance]

Uh far too soon to tell but If I were to speculate no he will not.

He's good but can't see him being top tier.

 

[Lil Puddin]

Meh, it's far too early to tell. This is all purely speculative.

True. However, he has the tools and utility to claim a good side of the spectrum. Or at the very least, upper-middle. Which is a very good place to be.

To be honest, no.
1) His recovery options are about as bad as lil mac's and he has safer options and an insta ko option.

2) Hadoken is among the worst projectiles in the game. All of them can be stopped with a jab or another projectile.

1) His recovery is actually pretty good distance wise thanks to his lofty weight. The problem is it makes him predictable. So you are totally right.

Now for the Zelda-brand snark.

2) I'm going to make you marry Ryu's Hadouken. In short, projectiles should require no real planning to harass with or poke, kills should require some planning. Damage and kill factors are also nice, but the point of projectiles is to harass/follow up/force options/limit options/etc. Fire and forget is basically all you need. Downtime is expected, but shouldn't be detrimental. Now on to the 2 bad projectiles, or as I like to call them, "Damsel Magic!" The ability to instantly turn yourself into a damsel in distress with just one easy movement. Only Zelda's magic is strong enough to use this powerfully (bad) amazing magic.

Din's Useless. I mean Din's Fire:
[ ]Fire and forget (she's got the fire part down)
[ ]Low enough downtime to allow spamming or follow ups
[X]Forces options or limits them (only for landing targets or offstage targets that can't afford a dodge)
[X]Can kill (if perfectly charged to stage 3/2 and aimed)
[ ]Can be charged and stored
[X]Can gimp (pls sweetspot)
[ ]No real thought required to use (better read the user's manual before each use)
[ Rapid fire/multi hits! (like I said, she's got the fire part down. . .)
[ ]High hit stun to offset slow firing (not consistent enough to do anything outside sweetspots)
[X]KB! (when you sweetspot it at stage 3 or 2 at high %)
[ ]Hard to block when barraging opponents (it's explosion is delayed, you can perfect shield every time even online)
[ ]Doesn't make you a sitting duck or helpless (Zelda/Sheik are the only ones who go into a helpless state with projectiles lmao)
[X]Can't be broken or "taken away" for a period of time
[ ]Different uses
[X]Damage is nice (more so the sweetspot, doesn't even balance with the downsides)
[O]Decent coverage (the explosion is ok size wise as is the distance; the bad control ruins it mostly)

Phantom Avoidable. I mean Phantom Knight:
[ ]Fire and forget (you are tied down after casting it anyway
[ ]Low enough downtime to allow spamming or follow ups
[X]Forces options or limits them (if planned properly)
[X]Can kill (if planned properly)
[O]Can be charged and stored (can be charged quickly, but can't be stored)
[X]Can gimp (if planned properly)
[ ]No real thought required to use them (so much planning required it's barely worth it)
[O]Rapid fire/multi hits! (2 hits when fully charged, very easy to avoid both anyway)
[X]High hit stun to offset slow firing (kinda, if it doesn't whiff)
[X]KB! (fully charged, final hit or 1st hit at high %)
[ ]Hard to block when barraging opponents (slow and ez to shield; then break/catch Zelda)
[ ]Doesn't make you a sitting duck or helpless (not checked? then it's automatically mediocre or worse)
[ ]Can't be broken or "taken away" for a period of time (EX: luma dying or Villager pocketing Diddy's Banana)
[X]Different uses
[X]Damage is nice
[O]Decent coverage (it covers about 1/3rd the FG stage, perhaps closer to 1/2. . . But is slooooow+blindspots)

In other words, Zelda's projectiles is what projectiles shouldn't be. So much commitment is required that Zelda is basically forced into an arranged marriage with her projectiles and she also has to come up with all the wedding plans. So again, these are really bad projectiles. Useful? Yeah. A lot of risk? So much that it makes you wonder why anyone would use them seriously.

Now let's look at Ryu's hadouken:
[X]Fire and forget (spam to your little heart's desire)
[X]Low enough downtime to allow spamming or follow ups (moderate cooldown)
[X]Forces options or limits them
[ ]Can kill
[ ]Can be charged and stored
[X]Can gimp (it can't gimp like Peach's turnip, but it does have the potential to harass off stage characters/force low/high recoveries)
[X]No real thought required to use them (ez projectilez)
[O]Rapid fire/Multi hit! (multi-hit Hadouken counts, kind of)
[X]High enough hit stun to offset slow firing (single burst hadouken)
[X]KB! (enough to offset the usage; is for zoning like Link's boomerang/Samus' homing missiles)
[ ]Hard to block when barraging opponents (can be shielded, but that's a forced option that Ryu can capitalize on)
[XXXXXXXXXXX]Doesn't make you a sitting duck or helpless (this is all a damaging projectile needs, tbh)
[X]Can't be broken or "taken away" for a period of time (EX: luma dying or Villager pocketing Diddy's Banana)
[X]Different uses (multi hit or single hit)
[X]Damage is nice
[X]Decent coverage (travels across 2/3rds of the FG stage and fires at a slow rate which is GOOD for zoning)

You may now lift the Hadouken's veil and kiss the bride. It's so beautiful and radiant that it's basically glowing. huehuehue

 

[PChron]

Nope. He lacks what makes top tiers top.

Zoning capability very linear. Fireball is weak with a lot of recovery. Can be hit away and even mega man's pea shooter of an AAA move will make it go away. (Also he can't tatsu through MM's AAA. Why)

Weak tilts have zero range and can probably still be shield grabbed.

IMO his only exceptionally good normal is strong A (the roundhouse)

Recovery is less than average.

Air options sort of suck. F.Air is okay I guess

Down smash is weak and only hits on one side, making reads harder.

Focus Attack will be rendered completely useless. No one with multi-hitting moves (i.e. everyone) will have to worry about it.

I've yet to determine how useful his shield breaking move will be as I haven't had many opportunities to land it.

He's mid tier and he'll be phased out from competitive smash in a month's time.

If you could do the input shoryu OOS then he'd definitely be better. Is there any way to do this?

I think you reasoning is off for some of these.

Have you seen his down angled weak tilt? It has crazy good range.

His shield breaker is also a fantastic.

Air options are incredible. Down air is a great spike, neutral will become an incredible combo extender, fair is also amazing, back air does more damage than ganon's

So you're saying that because there's a way to avoid something it's useless? Dude your main sucks cuz when they attack, I'll just roll awayyyyy

 

[gameplayzero]

I think you reasoning is off for some of these.

Have you seen his down angled weak tilt? It has crazy good range.

His shield breaker is also a fantastic.

Air options are incredible. Down air is a great spike, neutral will become an incredible combo extender, fair is also amazing, back air does more damage than ganon's

So you're saying that because there's a way to avoid something it's useless? Dude your main sucks cuz when they attack, I'll just roll awayyyyy

(this is all my opinion since I know its rather too soon to pretend like I completely understand a 3 day year old character).

his weak f-tilt is an alright poke, and his down tilt is about average. While I agree Dair is a great and pretty easy spike (as well as a combo extender), its pretty obvious to see the nair coming on stage. Any time ryu is in the air, if he doesn't do a fair he has to be close enough to you to even pull of the moves. Ignoring the problem Burst mentioned above, those moves have tiny range and are usually not worth doing in the neutral since it puts you in a worse position when fighting people who excel at juggling or who have ranged aerial optoins. Ryu is not an air game fighter imo. He is like his street fighter incarnate. You jump in to punish moves (usually projectiles) or to try to get an overhead mix-up. The problem here is that with the lack of shield push and shield hitstun in this game you can't safely pull aerials on block. He has FADC to kind of mix things up and protect himself, but there are some flaws to that plan since multihit moves negate that. His fair is by far his best aerial imo thanks to it being somewhat of a solid poke and great range/power. While bair is strong, its certainly not as easy to pull of compared to ganons and still will get beat by people with quicker aerials or longer range. Plus its not as strong in the neutral as say someone like sheik or falco.

but I do disagree with him that FA is useless. Unfortunately a lot of characters have multi-hit moves so its not as crazy, but for smash attack happy players/characters or any heavy one hit move based characters its a god send. In a match up with someone like ganon who has only single hit moves FADC can be a threat. Its also a decent mind game tool since you can dash away and keep the game from a far, or dash towards them to surprise them with pressure or an inputted dp for some risky kills.

 

[Bobert]

Right now, I don't think he'll be top tier. To me, he just feels like a somewhat better wii fit trainer with more combos but even more gimpable recovery. His projectile is pretty bad. It's slow, leaves him open and isn't even that strong. His range isn't that great either and his aerials aren't safe on shield at all. He freezes in the air when his aerials hit a shield and it's super easy to punish him afterwards. He can't change directions fast in the air so it's easy to juggle him. Personally, I don't see what all the hype is about. He seems decent but not top tier by any means.

 

[SevenYearItch]

Top tier? Probably not. Wicked secondary thats sitting probably at the top of mid tier? I think so. If you know how to use him and stay away from some garbage options, you can be pretty deadly through combos. I don't think you'll win a tourney solo-Ryu, but you can def use him to win some clutch matches

 

[GirugaMarc]

Finally got to use shield breaker a couple of times in a set vs a random Ryu.

It doesn't even break shields. Only almost. Punished OOS. kek

He'll be mid come next month unless Nintendo does something to him. Haha maybe they'll give him red focus