Do you think ryu is going to be top tier

[Bobert]

Just wanted to confirm to anybody else on this thread that doesn't know but Ryus leg is indeed the only invincible part of the Tatsumaki. He'll power right through a Fully Charged Samus shot like a champion if his leg connects but he'll get hit if it hits his back or side instead. But this also means that he can still be hit while recovering.

Edit: It won't actually go through charge shot unless it's staled for whatever reason but it beats out the hammer item and most other attacks. It can go through an 80% charged aura sphere according to roymustang1990.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Also,some other stuff I discovered a few days back in the other thread through the suggestion of the user @ icraq . Ryu won't suffice through a bombs KNOCKBACK if you spaced his d smash and f tilt 1 accordingly as well as not received damage percentage.Pretty cool.

 

[PapaJ]

Also,some other stuff I discovered a few days back in the other thread through the suggestion of the user @ icraq . Ryu won't suffice through a bombs KNOCKBACK if you spaced his d smash and f tilt 1 accordingly as well as not received damage percentage.Pretty cool.

This is some crazy stuff. This would explain why I feel Weak F tilt won in trades i thought i should have lost. Awesome find.

 

[Bobert]

Ryu's fair clashes with Samus Charge Shot if that's anything special. Even the lingering hitbox.

 

[icraq]

The man with steel toes. Good sciencing @ roymustang1990- and nice videos. I wish we had data dumps to see all his invincibility. My Ryu is really evolving a lot these days. I have been mostly been very spacing orientated, but when Ryu can get up inside someone's face the worst thing he can do is roll away. He has such good speed and priority up close. I've been loving tilts on cstick and walking full speed with utilt approaches.

Another thing I've noticed however is how far Ryu's actual hurtbox extends in like dtilt2 which is unfortunate. Ryu might have superman feet but he can be grabbed from a mile away when he sticks his leg out.

 

[roymustang1990-]

To papa j

This is some crazy stuff. This would explain why I feel Weak F tilt won in trades i thought i should have lost. Awesome find.

Thanks.My mind ****s ***** the first time I discovered those too the other day.

The man with steel toes. Good sciencing @ roymustang1990- and nice videos. I wish we had data dumps to see all his invincibility. My Ryu is really evolving a lot these days. I have been mostly been very spacing orientated, but when Ryu can get up inside someone's face the worst thing he can do is roll away. He has such good speed and priority up close. I've been loving tilts on cstick and walking full speed with utilt approaches.

Another thing I've noticed however is how far Ryu's actual hurtbox extends in like dtilt2 which is unfortunate. Ryu might have superman feet but he can be grabbed from a mile away when he sticks his leg out.

Videos wouldn't have been possible without your suggestions of course.i just wished I didn't take so long to post them until now but at least the discovery is finally getting out besides you and me and others who visited my thread that day.

Ah I see.Maybe you can submit a match to the video thread. I'd like to see this evolving ryu of yours in action.

Yeah,Going by logic. There's no way ryu's d tilt could be grabbed at that distance.


Also,

Utilt 2 safely destroys bombs above Ryu on battlefield. It's safe to say his fists are made of steel as well.

It's pretty amazing!

 

[.Shìkì]

Ryu's fair clashes with Samus Charge Shot if that's anything special. Even the lingering hitbox.

Wait wait wait. His fair? I was asking in another thread if that was the case... hello approachtool!

 

[PapaJ]

Wait wait wait. His fair? I was asking in another thread if that was the case... hello approachtool!

I think the rule for clashing is 9%. So if a move does 15% you need a move that does a minimum of 6% to clash with it...Ryus Fair does 15/13/8 meaning he should be able to beat out a move as high as 24%. This is of course including the hidden tenths place so a move that does 24.1 percent will beat out Ryu's fair, assuming Ryus fair is a solid 15%.

Edit: All ground moves within this percent will clash, unless transcendent. Aerial moves are different. Two aerial moves will not cancel each other out however an aerial can cancel a projectile.

 

[MisterDom]

I believe he'll be in high tier. He has a lot of good combos, but doesn't have GREAT kill options. He also wins in a bunch of match ups

 

[Emblem Lord]

True Shoryuken is he most consistent kill option in the game

 

[ArccJPO]

True Shoryuken is he most consistent kill option in the game

I beg to differ. Even in this case, True SHR has pathetic horizontal reach. If you miss the first frames, T. SHR won't kill in lower %. It's a good move. But by far the best.

FSmash and Bair far more accurate to seal a stock without need of FA or lucky random T. SHR / Combo into T. SHR.

 

[PapaJ]

True Shoryuken is he most consistent kill option in the game

Yeah, it can KO at like 85% for most of the chast but you either need a hard read or combo from Weak Utilt, this could be hit or miss though because they are in the air but iv consistently gotten the kill, Jab 1, easier because of set knockback and they are not off the ground, and weak dtilt, same reasons as jab 1 however range is longer so you may whiff.

If you can combo from it then yeah go for it. It's a pretty good move so much so you can throw out a hit or two of the tilts and go back to neutral fast.

His best Kill options, when presented, are:
Fsmash - tip KO's 10% earlier,
Bair - which can KO ~130% middle of the stage with mario 100 near ledge
Strong Neutral - KO's mario at 120 near ledge
Usmash - KO's Mario ~130 can can be comboed from sourspot Fair
Dair - you can either spike with it with the sweetspot or gimp with the sourspot

Anything else either takes too high of a percentage to KO or it's gonna KO way later, giving your opponent time to KO you or get you up to KO percent if you have the lead.

Edit: Again, not saying do not use SRK only use it from a hard read or if you combo from it. SRK is unique in the fact that Ryu cannot change his horizontal movement in the air after doing SRK, he can but thats only if he's mid air when he does it and only after descending for quite a bit of time. This means if the opponent shields it they can do anything and punish you when you land with or without the extra ending lag.

 

[Emblem Lord]

So using it as a punish is simply unheard of to you guys?

 

[icraq]

True DP is the best punish in situations that require a dash. It's also a superior air dodge bait and punish to any smash attack at kill percents. Hell and it's amazing vs rolls.

 

[PapaJ]

So using it as a punish is simply unheard of to you guys?

Oh my god why didn't we see this before! Guys all we need to do is punish with SRK and it will land all the time.

Sarcasm aside I'm sure we all have tested how useful is for punishing. If you're talking about punishing aerial moves with SRK then you should know the longer the hitbox is out the weaker it is. So we would have to wait right before we got hit if we are using it for a KO move other wise all that KB becomes alot weaker.

Grounded moves it would depend on what is thrown out. For example Falcon moves forward with his Fsmash so if we spotdodge that we could land a close range SRK because he moves closer. If it's someone like Pikachu with a disjointed Fsmash spotdoging wouldnt work we would need to get behind pikachu and punish, easier said then done.

Simply using it to punish isn't guranteed as you're making it out. There are better ways of doing it, such as hit confirms. Not to mention if you whiff a DP you're probably eating ~20 damage + a possible KO. With the aforementioned methods we can minimize that.

Also please give examples on when it should be used to punish rather then give the blanket question. "So using it as a punish is simply unheard of to you guys?"

Sorry if I come off sounding like an ass but since you are giving us no examples of these punishes and questioning our basic smash skills, punishing, I'm gonna make fun of the idea you're proposing without A) any situations and B) can name any real success. @ icraq named some examples of using it as a punish while you simply mentioned it.

True DP is the best punish in situations that require a dash. It's also a superior air dodge bait and punish to any smash attack at kill percents. Hell and it's amazing vs rolls.

With reading opponents rolls I agree, it's static on how far they roll so you can figure out where they are gonna go. Using it on aerial opponents causes much of the KB to be lost meaning it won't ko till later, still somewhat early but later. Ive had success using it on people who messed up a smash attack and kept charging but that's not very common.

 

[Bobert]

So using it as a punish is simply unheard of to you guys?

Basically like PapaJ said, you could try elaborating and giving examples. You're wasting our time by not doing so.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Been giving easy answers for well over a decade now. Sometimes I just feel like making people think.

But yes its easily the best out of run punish in the game. Ryu blocks a kill move from virtually anyone, he is getting a punish KO. There are also of course air trap scenarios where you can force a reaction, and if an opponent airdodges then you get a free kill.

I will talk about that later though.

But really I just wanted to shoot down the blatantly false statement that its only killing in hit confirms and off reads. Because thats just not true.

 

[PapaJ]

Been giving easy answers for well over a decade now. Sometimes I just feel like making people think.

But yes its easily the best out of run punish in the game. Ryu blocks a kill move from virtually anyone, he is getting a punish KO. There are also of course air trap scenarios where you can force a reaction, and if an opponent airdodges then you get a free kill.

I will talk about that later though.

But really I just wanted to shoot down the blatantly false statement that its only killing in hit confirms and off reads. Because thats just not true.

We're not saying it's only used for that. We're saying Ryu is unique in the fact he can hit confirm into a KO move. This is probably one of his greatest strengths. To outright dismiss it as a punish is insane but without giving us scenarios, like in the other post. We can't go and say "no this is a good idea" or "this is a bad idea". You need to give people situations to which we can test and say "oh it worked" or if it didn't.

Aerial moves would probably be the easier punishes because the minute they throw out an attack and they are close enough we can SRK right through that no problem. I feel like the punish you are describing a "win more" situation. If Ryu is losing and he attempts that SRK run punish and he wins he just evens the score a bit. If he loses he loses the match. Maybe if you're on your last legs and you need to turn it around then yeah ok.

If Ryu could move doing SRK's decent, which he can't when done on the ground, I'd be more open to using it as you could weave around the opponent in the air. Overall we're not dismissing it as only a hit confirm move but due to the ability to do so, and the fact the combo moves come out pretty fast, it's ultimately safer on the Ryu player to go do that versus doing it out of run.

 

[icraq]

The air dodge bait I was referring to is like Emblem Lord said, use something to trick your opponent into air dodging onto the ground and punish with a grounded DP. Hadoukens, empty short hops, etc. A well placed aerial hadouken forces a descending airborne opponent with no second jump to either air dodge, try to clash with it using an aerial, or get hit by it. All those things are bad for your opponent. You can even condition your opponent with light DP on landing to train them to air dodge preemptively. Almost every character has smash attacks good for this type of setup, but how many kill so early and come out so fast?

Donkey kick has some great uses, like killing at 60 off a Nair reset, and spacing and applying pressure, dsmash is similar but not really with the KOs, but it does punish some recoveries insanely well. Usmash I don't know what it's good for. Not yet at least. Maybe it's faster Oos, and it is the highest possible damage one hit move when fully charged but I think I'd rather style on someone if I have the time to charge a smash. Utilt1 x2 into jab 1 special canceled shoryuken is the same damage and kills earlier. Plus it looks sick.


Apologies for rambling, just working thoughts out in my head, this is just how I process stuff.

 

[PapaJ]

The air dodge bait I was referring to is like Emblem Lord said, use something to trick your opponent into air dodging onto the ground and punish with a grounded DP. Hadoukens, empty short hops, etc. A well placed aerial hadouken forces a descending airborne opponent with no second jump to either air dodge, try to clash with it using an aerial, or get hit by it. All those things are bad for your opponent. You can even condition your opponent with light DP on landing to train them to air dodge preemptively. Almost every character has smash attacks good for this type of setup, but how many kill so early and come out so fast?

Donkey kick has some great uses, like killing at 60 off a Nair reset, and spacing and applying pressure, dsmash is similar but not really with the KOs, but it does punish some recoveries insanely well. Usmash I don't know what it's good for. Not yet at least. Maybe it's faster Oos, and it is the highest possible damage one hit move when fully charged but I think I'd rather style on someone if I have the time to charge a smash. Utilt1 x2 into jab 1 special canceled shoryuken is the same damage and kills earlier. Plus it looks sick.


Apologies for rambling, just working thoughts out in my head, this is just how I process stuff.

Yeah that's a basic strategy with all characters. Jump towards, FF, Prep a smash attack is the standard.
The Hadoken one is a bit tricky. After you do it the first time they will gladly take the 6-7 damage versus the 15-18 of a SRK. In this situation the opponent will always go for the least harmful way out. In this case it's either clashing or eating the hit.

Actually you can combo Sourspot Nair into Fsmash from 60-125% (tested on mario). Meaning you can confirm into an easy KO, if they are on the ledge. Yeah Usmash is only good OoS or if you combo it from soutspot Fair, it does 19-20 damage. It can KO at around 125 but Fsmash is usually better imo.

And no worries the information is clear and understandable and that's all that matters.

Edit: Usmash comes out on Frame 10 and Fsmash comes out on Frame 16. So given the situation Usmash is better for punishing VS Fsmash if you need to a move out quick. Other if you need range Fsmash.

 

[DestinNotDustin]

What do y'all think of RoundHouse (Held A)? I've been using that as an anti-air and it is working wonders. The fact that it kills around 150% makes it my favorite move.

 

[BlueBirdE]

I see ryu as a solid high tier still. If his inputs and frame data are mastered I can see this character being one of the scariest high tiers to face. Buffering reverse dps to cover rolls. Tatsu to punish wiffs. Mastering focus attack movement and cancels from normals. Only the beginning and who knows what well find later down the road hes still very young in the meta

 

[Emblem Lord]

What do y'all think of RoundHouse (Held A)? I've been using that as an anti-air and it is working wonders. The fact that it kills around 150% makes it my favorite move.

As a poke and an AA its one of the best in the game easy.

 

[BraveFantasy]

On the subject or srk punishes: has anyone messed around with true srk out of shield? I do this fairly often for some easy punishes. I play with tap jump off, so it can be difficult to perform sometimes, but those who play with tap jump on may find a lot of use for this. TK shoryuken anyone? Haven't tested it but just knowing smash mechanics it should work. This could definitely become one of ryu's strongest punishes for just about every situation.

 

[PapaJ]

What do y'all think of RoundHouse (Held A)? I've been using that as an anti-air and it is working wonders. The fact that it kills around 150% makes it my favorite move.

Like someone told me. Using it when the opponent is near the ledge is great for landing KO's at ~125%

 

[Dsull]

I'd put him somewhere around #4-5. Oddly enough when i use him i crush my usual problems (rosalina, shiek, zss) which is odd and i dont understand how. But, others that im not used to having problems with are kicking my butt because of stature (Pikachu is literally impossible to fight as Ryu, he can duck under EVERYTHING and multihit galore to stop Focus Punch approach lol)

Ordinarily i'd say im just getting lucky matchups and these toptier character users are just baddies, but ive faced dozens upon dozens of them and while im not a flawless victor, im highly in the positive. Once i can get used to remembering this IS NOT SF2 and i have to manage my facing so i quit Tatsumaki'ing off the freaking stage i'll probably raise that winrate higher lol.
I compared him to my DK play in the stats page. I have like 1/10th or less the games, and 1/3 the wins compared to DK which i used almost exclusively on the wiiu.

His recovery is oddly good when you can do the proper button inputs, focus punch can be used legitimately or as a sykeout, approaching him from above is a deathwish with proper input shoryuken, and he has potential to rack up some HEAVY damage with minimal effort.

 

[meleebrawler]

I'd put him somewhere around #4-5. Oddly enough when i use him i crush my usual problems (rosalina, shiek, zss) which is odd and i dont understand how. But, others that im not used to having problems with are kicking my butt because of stature (Pikachu is literally impossible to fight as Ryu, he can duck under EVERYTHING and multihit galore to stop Focus Punch approach lol)

Ordinarily i'd say im just getting lucky matchups and these toptier character users are just baddies, but ive faced dozens upon dozens of them and while im not a flawless victor, im highly in the positive. Once i can get used to remembering this IS NOT SF2 and i have to manage my facing so i quit Tatsumaki'ing off the freaking stage i'll probably raise that winrate higher lol.
I compared him to my DK play in the stats page. I have like 1/10th or less the games, and 1/3 the wins compared to DK which i used almost exclusively on the wiiu.

His recovery is oddly good when you can do the proper button inputs, focus punch can be used legitimately or as a sykeout, approaching him from above is a deathwish with proper input shoryuken, and he has potential to rack up some HEAVY damage with minimal effort.

There is nothing about Ryu that takes "minimum effort".

His recovery is alright in distance but tatsumaki isn't too hard to intercept and FADC still takes some time to do.

I don't see short opponents being a big problem for Ryu considering his low-hitting options are quite good and generally should be the core component of your neutral outside hadoukens. Just don't use Joudan Sokutogeri (fsmash) so much, and also refrain from jump-ins. Use your Shakunetsus to get them to jump first. Though short hops are good as pseudo Street Fighter dashes.

 

[PapaJ]

There is nothing about Ryu that takes "minimum effort".

His recovery is alright in distance but tatsumaki isn't too hard to intercept and FADC still takes some time to do.

I don't see short opponents being a big problem for Ryu considering his low-hitting options are quite good and generally should be the core component of your neutral outside hadoukens. Just don't use Joudan Sokutogeri (fsmash) so much, and also refrain from jump-ins. Use your Shakunetsus to get them to jump first. Though short hops are good as pseudo Street Fighter dashes.

On top of FADC taking a bit to use, minimum is 26 frames, any character with multihit aerials can screw us. Unless we do it from a distance where we know we can't get hit

Yeah his Dtilts all combo into Hado and Tatsu reliably. He even has Dsmash which does great damage for a 5 frame move. Nair, Fair and Dair should also be able to hit them reliably as well.

Also have we tested if we can hit the low crouching opponents wit a grounded tatsu?

 

[meleebrawler]

On top of FADC taking a bit to use, minimum is 26 frames, any character with multihit aerials can screw us. Unless we do it from a distance where we know we can't get hit

Yeah his Dtilts all combo into Hado and Tatsu reliably. He even has Dsmash which does great damage for a 5 frame move. Nair, Fair and Dair should also be able to hit them reliably as well.

Also have we tested if we can hit the low crouching opponents wit a grounded tatsu?

I dunno, maybe if you start it next to them. Though tatsumaki on the ground is only really used to punish excessive
backrolling or just generally a long range kill punish at high percents. For Glory lets you get away with it more often than you should.

Also Dair is super risky against ground opponents, same with advancing fair unless you crossup.
Again, refrain from jump-in attacks with Ryu unless spacing or moving away or get a solid hit.

 

[Dsull]

I find it insanely hard to get kills with True Shoryuken because i have always, since the days of KI64 where fighting games were on consoles with a stick, have had severe issues imputting complex commands with the stick. In Smash since im forced to use the stick, i often end up doing a Hadoken instead of a True Shoryuken even though i swear im holding an angle not forward when i hit the button.
However i kill pretty reliably with Fsmash, Bair, or Dthrow if they reach ~150%. Yes, Dthrow, not joking. Doesnt work against heavy characters at that point but usually once my opponent reaches that threshold and somehow isnt dead i start getting grabhappy, and it usually works in most matchups.
Also my left hand has next to no dexterity in it. I find it increasingly hard to land the special commands when im on the right side of the screen lol. Pulling my thumb in is a bit of a task for my left hand, but throwing it out is easy.

Has anybody come across a Pit as Ryu and had a hard time? I rarely ever see Pit, but i ran across one earlier and he just out-prioritized everything i was used to doing. Only damage i could get was when he wiffed because he recovered from most of his attacks faster than i can recover from a dodge/roll or even drop my shield and just goes right through everything, even fair, with no resistant.

 

[PapaJ]

I find it insanely hard to get kills with True Shoryuken because i have always, since the days of KI64 where fighting games were on consoles with a stick, have had severe issues imputting complex commands with the stick. In Smash since im forced to use the stick, i often end up doing a Hadoken instead of a True Shoryuken even though i swear im holding an angle not forward when i hit the button.
However i kill pretty reliably with Fsmash, Bair, or Dthrow if they reach ~150%. Yes, Dthrow, not joking. Doesnt work against heavy characters at that point but usually once my opponent reaches that threshold and somehow isnt dead i start getting grabhappy, and it usually works in most matchups.
Also my left hand has next to no dexterity in it. I find it increasingly hard to land the special commands when im on the right side of the screen lol. Pulling my thumb in is a bit of a task for my left hand, but throwing it out is easy.

Has anybody come across a Pit as Ryu and had a hard time? I rarely ever see Pit, but i ran across one earlier and he just out-prioritized everything i was used to doing. Only damage i could get was when he wiffed because he recovered from most of his attacks faster than i can recover from a dodge/roll or even drop my shield and just goes right through everything, even fair, with no resistant.

easy input is holding towards+Hadoken motion. If you set your C-stick to attack you can easily combo into T.srk as the C-stick doesn't affect the SF inputs. So that way you can use C-stick Up while holding the analog towards and the second you confirmed you hit it you can input the hadoken motion.

Also why aren't you using Heavy jab near the ledges. Thats a reliable kill move and the range is pretty good.

I personally blow up pits. The only thing we can't do is FADC alot since most of their attacks are multihit. Once they reach 70% a T.SRK is enough to end them. Just be wary of using Tatsu to recover.

FInally even though T.srk does kill earlier if they are at normal SRK KO percents going for the normal input is better because ir's hard to mess up. This lets you get the KO without the risk of using another move.

 

[Dsull]

easy input is holding towards+Hadoken motion. If you set your C-stick to attack you can easily combo into T.srk as the C-stick doesn't affect the SF inputs. So that way you can use C-stick Up while holding the analog towards and the second you confirmed you hit it you can input the hadoken motion.

Also why aren't you using Heavy jab near the ledges. Thats a reliable kill move and the range is pretty good.

I personally blow up pits. The only thing we can't do is FADC alot since most of their attacks are multihit. Once they reach 70% a T.SRK is enough to end them. Just be wary of using Tatsu to recover.

FInally even though T.srk does kill earlier if they are at normal SRK KO percents going for the normal input is better because ir's hard to mess up. This lets you get the KO without the risk of using another move.

So youre saying in most situations i should just use the normal UpB command rather than actual imputs? From time to time i think of that, and when i dont overestimate how high it goes it works fine (unless they have a high power dair waiting for me lol)

Ive never been a fan of changing the Cstick actions because if i forget to set my profile i basically autolose lol. I get into rhythms when i play any game, so changing things up takes forever to get used to. Heck i switch from Ryu to Lucario and im trying to imput special commands for some dumb reason LOL

Also, ive played SF2 a ton as a kid but i never got into the "competitive" scene or speech limbo. What does FADC mean anyway?

 

[Emblem Lord]

FADC is his ability to dash out of his down special while its charging.

Focus Attack Dash Cancel

 

[PapaJ]

So youre saying in most situations i should just use the normal UpB command rather than actual imputs? From time to time i think of that, and when i dont overestimate how high it goes it works fine (unless they have a high power dair waiting for me lol)

Ive never been a fan of changing the Cstick actions because if i forget to set my profile i basically autolose lol. I get into rhythms when i play any game, so changing things up takes forever to get used to. Heck i switch from Ryu to Lucario and im trying to imput special commands for some dumb reason LOL

Also, ive played SF2 a ton as a kid but i never got into the "competitive" scene or speech limbo. What does FADC mean anyway?

Not most. If you feel like you're gonna flub up the SF input then using the smash up-B style will Ko around 20% later. If you're doing it for damage you lose 1% damage if it hits on the earliest frame.

Practice the inputs so you can get them down and not rely on the up-B version. However, none of us are perfect so if you need the KO and you have them at 130%+ then a normal SRK will pretty much always KO. And since Ryu does insane damage getting them to 130+ isn't too bad.

Also I wouldn't be using SRK on aerial oppoenets. The attack gets weaker the longer it's out. Use it from Weak Utilt, Weak Dtilt, Jab 1, and for people with low percents you can use Strong Utilt > T.SRK. You have much better aerial options that don't leave you nearly as open, such as Uair, Fair and Bair.