Do you think Ness is for beginners?

[NessUserAnton]

Well, I've been thinking about it, and I ended thinking that Ness was a tiny bit for beginners. When you think about it, people think that he is not for beginners because of PKT recovery, but that isn't a problem with a little bit of practice, as everyone knows that PKT recovery isn't really that hard. The problem with Ness is that most of his moves are for beginners when you think about it.

PK Fire: Teaches you for proper trapping; starts up for many combos; and does enough damage to start out a match with, helping the beginner get a tiny bit of a headstart.
PK Thunder: Helps you play a game of keep-away: Can be turned into a PKT for a very powerful move; and great for long range play.
PSI Magnet: Helps you figure out proper reflecting techniques, giving you a lot pros. Regaining health is great
PK Flash: Great for learning how to edgeguard. Great damage from a great cost.
Tilts; helps you start out a lot of combos.
Smashes; Well a baseball bat is a real standard smash, and the yoyos help you do a combo starter.
Airs; great for killing, great for starting damage; great for combos. Airs helps =D!

What do you think?

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

All characters are for beginners, in the sense that anyone can learn to play any character well enough to beat computers and their crappy friends. Usually for really beginner players I suggest characters whose moves do what they look like they do, have little to no weird hitboxes, and are harder to suicide with, like Kirby.

 

[menofuntall]

Ness is pretty difficult to pick up compared to the others. PK Thunder 2 requires more practice than other recoveries, and will probably be a turn off to newbies. His PK Fire is punishable if used incorrectly, Magnet is pretty bad for countering projectile spam, and Flash...? I don't really have any comments on that. His air attacks are easy to use, I'll give you that. His bat is slower than you'd wish, and it needs to be sweetspotted for kill power. Ness just can't be a beginner character if he's difficult to use.

 

[NessUserAnton]

All characters are for beginners, in the sense that anyone can learn to play any character well enough to beat computers and their crappy friends. Usually for really beginner players I suggest characters whose moves do what they look like they do, have little to no weird hitboxes, and are harder to suicide with, like Kirby.

If they actually do that, they were never learn to use anyone else that's easy to suicide with, correct? I think you should start out with people that are intermediate to use, such as Ness. Learn the advance techniques, and get to use people like Kirby. It's going backwards, not inwards is what I'm leaning to. You will never learn anything useful with people with easy moves and hitboxes, correct?'


@2nd replyer.

Well true, it would be a turn off to beginners, but seriously, it's not that hard to do. What's the point of learning a character if you cannot learn how to use good recoveries. I think that if people just wanted easy recoveries, everyone would just use Pit. I'm not saying Ness is the BEST beginner character, I just think he is a GOOD beginner character.

There are infact better characters to choose from

 

[napZzz]

ness has a steep learning curve.

 

[menofuntall]

If they actually do that, they were never learn to use anyone else that's easy to suicide with, correct? I think you should start out with people that are intermediate to use, such as Ness. Learn the advance techniques, and get to use people like Kirby. It's going backwards, not inwards is what I'm leaning to. You will never learn anything useful with people with easy moves and hitboxes, correct?'


@2nd replyer.

Well true, it would be a turn off to beginners, but seriously, it's not that hard to do. What's the point of learning a character if you cannot learn how to use good recoveries. I think that if people just wanted easy recoveries, everyone would just use Pit. I'm not saying Ness is the BEST beginner character, I just think he is a GOOD beginner character.

There are infact better characters to choose from

More like everyone would use ROB, right? >_>

Starting hard and going to easy is like going from Calculus to Algebra. Calculus assumes you already know Algebra (and if it doesn't, take it for the figurative meaning), which you don't. In the end, you just make it harder on yourself. Learn Algebra first, then move onto Calculus when you know you can handle it.

That's not saying someone even needs to learn Calculus. It all depends on who they want to main. Maybe they'll stop at Algebra, because that's all they need to know. Maybe they'll continue onto Calculus, because that's what they'll need to know. It's not like just because it's easy to use means it's bad, either. Yes, you'll get disorientated when you get characters with weird hitboxes, but that's only assuming they intend to use such characters. If they do, well that's their commitment.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Way to skip his A moves. Being a good player is about mastering your A moves much more than is your B moves. Against good players, PK flash/cross is almost useless, PK fire is situation, and PK magnet only works against projectiles when you can predict there gonna use it. The only great B move Ness has is his UP B, and boy is it good.

PK fire is good too but honestly, only veterans, and non beginners, will be good at landing it and using it properly. Ness is anything but someone who is for beginners.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

FWIW, I've tended to gravitate toward the characters that stray from the norm in Smash (Ness in 64, Peach in Melee, and now Lucas in Brawl). Although by the time you unlock Ness in 64, you'll probably have a working knowledge of how to play, since the requirements were rather difficult (I thought...) at the time.

I wouldn't recommend Ness (or Lucas) for a first-time player, but he's a good choice for learning how each character has their own nuances.

...I get the impression that this post will make very limited amounts of sense to anyone other than me.

 

[NessUserAnton]

I totally agree with all of you. But all I'm saying is why is everyone saying that Ness and Lucas are hard to use when they aren't even. I was never any good in Melee, and I'm not saying I'm good in Brawl, but seriously, I'm ok in Brawl, and I started maining Ness once I learned how to use Lucas pretty well. They aren't for everyone, but they deserve a much bigger fanbase. They barely have anyone right now.

Agree with taht anyone?

 

[Levitas]

on another forum I'm a part of (Allisbrawl), Ness has the most posts of any character board. He's got a few players using him.

 

[NessUserAnton]

Well, just cause it has the most posts, does not mean he is the most popular character. Ness is a character if diversity, so of course a lot of questions will be asked.

Sorry, logical reasoning takes me over.

 

[Levitas]

certainly the two are correlated at the very least.

 

[Dekar]

LOLOLOL i didnt even read the posts, ness for beginners, what a laugh

 

[Ademisk]

I was gonna say something, but then Emmy said it.

 

[Roller]

Ness is definately not for beginners. Anyone who is good with him definately has some skillz.

 

[Ryudragon29]

Ness has startup lag in almost all his moves so I don't think a beginner would do any good with him. You really need the timing with Ness.

 

[NessUserAnton]

certainly the two are correlated at the very least.

Yeah; I guess. But still, he could be good for beginners, if the beginners actually took time to use him, right?

LOLOLOL i didnt even read the posts, ness for beginners, what a laugh

That's not very nice -_-. It's a serious discussion, and can be taken for granted, as it can happen.

I was gonna say something, but then Emmy said it.

?

Ness is definately not for beginners. Anyone who is good with him definately has some skillz.

Hey, no one is good with anyone right when they start out. They can learn things with Ness, even if he does have some lag. Seriously, I've never seen anyone play for the first time and get good with say... Kirby.

Ness has startup lag in almost all his moves so I don't think a beginner would do any good with him. You really need the timing with Ness.

A beginner can learn though. If a beginner doesn't want to play, than let him be. I'm just correlating that Ness CAN be for beginner people.

 

[Ryudragon29]

Theoretically, most characters are for beginners especially on Brawl, which is slower paced than Melee.

 

[napZzz]

Uhhh ness is not a beginner character. LUCAS is.

 

[Ryudragon29]

Lucas is like a light Ike with range attacks. (joke)

 

[Dekar]

lol sorry, i havnt really been back here since brawl came out cause i took a break from the boards/smash in general.

Took me years to get ness down the way i had him in melee, survey says, not for beginners. xD

 

[eHerbieInReverse]

Yeah; I guess. But still, he could be good for beginners, if the beginners actually took time to use him, right?

Well, the thing is, is that "beginner" characters are the characters that don't take very much time nor effort to use effectively enough to hold their own in battle. This is usually achieved by spamming or camping. "Taking the time" to use them if they seem difficult at first, is just not really the characteristic if a "beginner" character. That's just the player having dedication to learn the difficult character and kind of proves that Ness isn't a beginner character.

You might argue that he can spam PK Fire, but I'd argue against it. It has moderately slow startup and a lot of lag afterwards to be punished for. The only time I can "spam" this is (first of all, when I say "spam" I really mean like 2-3 at best) if you land a PK Fire in the first place. Along with all of this, it's steep angle in the air, and insane after-lag when used improperly in the air is also a downer for those who don't use it properly.

You might argue that he can spam PK Thunder, yes, but once again, only if they know what they are doing, and often times, only if you land one first. It's startup time isn't bad for what it does but the lag afterwards, when missed or failed, is easily punishable.

PK Flash, too easy to comment on that.

PSI Magnet is largely situational and takes skill to understand the lag and cancelling of, let alone the prediction.

Concluded.

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness is not a begginer character.

Most people when they pick up the game try these moves: Smashes, specials, and recovery.

Ness has good ones (minus recovery), but they will not appeal to begginners. They are complex. The yo-yo isnt the avrage "hit them upwards and possibly kill" type smash. Neither is his dsmash. THe bat is sometimes a turnoff to begginers because of it's slow startup. Ness' smashes are good, just complex which begginers may not want to handle. The charging ability on the yo-yos is too useful, and landing the batt is easier than it may seem at first.

Ness' specials also take time and effort to use; this is NOT what begginers want. They want specials that they can spam and use with little effort (lasers, arrows, aether). Again, they are good, just not appealing at first. PKT is a mindgame barrel, and PKF can be very useable with advanced PKF techniques.

Ness' recovery sucks. No doubt. And his unique recovery move is just a big slap in the face to begginers who expect immediate launch after using it and find a little blue bolt flying quickly away from them.

Ness excels when played to the advanced level. PKF on it's own is okay, but that's it. But when you start lag cancelling and PK Jumping, PKF becomes SO much better. PKT mindgames make a huge role in Ness' gameplay. It's crazy really. He also needs shuffling and double aerial shuffles along with creative use of the charging ability of the yo-yos.

His abilities excel in what begginers will NOT check out. THrows, aerials, and mindgames. No begginer wants to practice those, which is why a lot of people stray away from Ness' complex gameplay.

Ness is a beast, just not in the hands of begginers.

****IT I did it again! Made a post WAAAYY longer than it should have been

 

[Ademisk]

Rapid Assassin = Emmy.

 

[PKSkyler]

If anything, i would say Lucas is a good introduction to Ness, but Ness is pretty advanced so I think you are wrong, Ness isnt really for begginers. I think Mario and Link are easier to pick-up and play.

 

[Ilucamy]

No, the definition of a beginners character is a character that has very, very basic, standard moves and has no weird hitboxes. On top of that, they should have decent recovery, spammable moves, and tons of power without a major sacrifice of speed. What's this all leading up to?


Ike...

Ness requires finesse and control, the ability to spot openings, and good spacing abilities. Definitely not a beginners character. He's a good character to help learn though. I think you're taking about a practice character.

 

[Kros]

Lucas < Ness

Ness takes a lot more time to master compared to Lucas.

 

[DXStarman]

Lucas < Ness

Ness takes a lot more time to master compared to Lucas.

Well if you speak of learning curve etc... Than I don't really know what you are talking about 'Lucas < Ness' I've used them both, and to effectively use them, you've got to put in some pretty good hours, playing alot and learning the best tactics. But then again, you've got to do that with all characters if you want to use them properly. I wouldn't say that Ness is a beginner character or anything, I am saying that all characters can be considered beginner with different perspectives.

 

[YumClock]

Doesn't the words "learning curve" signify that a character is harder to get good at, but much faster at the same time?
Meaning that a Ness player can get good fast, but a Lucas player has a nice base but takes quite a while to excel at.
Just a thought.

 

[Ademisk]

No it doesn't. A learning curve simply means someone takes longer to get good at. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line, so the bigger the curve, the longer the distance is.

 

[L-dub-E]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3uHn10WK4E

ness is for anyone whose willing to play as him

 

[DiasFlac]

Metaknight is for starters (imo) he has to be the easiest character to pick up, look like you know the game, and learn.

Your friends will think your cool due to the fact he has no lag in any of his moves (cept his Down B) and he has the best combo ability in the game that even a starter can learn to do.

 

[thesage]

MK is the easiest character to learn, by far, lol.

Ness is one of the harder characters because you have to know matchups really well and change your playstyle accordingly (sometimes it's all with the fair, others the u-smash).

 

[Trace_User500]

PK Thunder: Helps you play a game of keep-away: Can be turned into a PKT for a very powerful move; and great for long range play.

I'm confused. What's the differance between PK Thunder and PKT? I refuse to let a noob know more than me(slightly more than a noob).

 

[Earthbound360]

Its the same deal with NYC and New York

 

[Ademisk]

No, actually, NUA probably meant to say PKT2.

 

[YumClock]

...Which is when you hit yourself.

 

[napZzz]

Ness is harder to use. MK is so easy to get good with its not even funny. He's so boring to play. But seriously, to get good with ness is hard.

 

[ROOOOY!]

I'm confused. What's the differance between PK Thunder and PKT? I refuse to let a noob know more than me(slightly more than a noob).

PKT = PK Thunder
PKT2 = hitting yourself with PKT.

We were all nublets once..

 

[Airgemini]

I wouldnt say Ness is for beginners. Thats more of MKs job.