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Do you think a character being a Spirit deconfirms them as a playable fighter?

Do you think Spirits (ex. Shantae, Big Boss, Gooey, Etc.) deconfirm their Characters?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 23.2%
  • No

    Votes: 109 76.8%

  • Total voters
    142
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meleebrawler

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Normally no - I think anyone should be possible...

...but with the news that the DLC characters were planned early - as in, they already know who’s gonna be in and the game’s a month out - it seems like they’d have taken the spirit out before the game went gold.

Now if there’s a season 2 inbound, or even if we get random echoes dropped, then I think they’re back on the table. But for this DLC pack, nope.
Mewtwo was planned early, at least before the launch of the Wii U version, and that still didn't stop them from putting a trophy of him in both versions.
 

JayCeeCreates

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Being a spirit means a character is deconfirmed, and will not get in the roster. Proof? Sakurai explained in the Direct that "all of [the beloved characters] except for fighters are turned into spirits." So if your beloved character like Geno has become a spirit, too bad.
 

meleebrawler

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Being a spirit means a character is deconfirmed, and will not get in the roster. Proof? Sakurai explained in the Direct that "all of [the beloved characters] except for fighters are turned into spirits." So if your beloved character like Geno has become a spirit, too bad.
He also said the mode is more about fun than story, so he's probably not gonna let a pesky little thing like a plot hole get in the way of a playable character.
 

Gyrom8

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I don't think it's a hard deconfirm: their chances are probably better than an assist trophy's. However, as the point of the spirits seems to be 'this character joins the fight ... indirectly' I wouldn't be too confident about a spirit's chances.
 

nirvanafan

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remember when everyone thought mewtwo and lucas would not return as fighters because they had trophies in smash 4, i know this is a different situation but something similar has happened before.
 

Dan

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Being a spirit means a character is deconfirmed, and will not get in the roster. Proof? Sakurai explained in the Direct that "all of [the beloved characters] except for fighters are turned into spirits." So if your beloved character like Geno has become a spirit, too bad.
Geno is like the one character that isn't a spirit; someone needs to use the emergency broadcast system to tell everyone Geno is just an online profile pic at this point because the misconception across the internet is crazy.
 

Mogisthelioma

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I kind of hope spirirts disconfirm fighters, just so we can seriously narrow down DLC speculation to a few key choices instead of yet again pulling from hundreds of characters that have like 2 requests but that makes them "eligible."
 

Idon

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Yeah, just so I'm not disappointed later on.
 

Sabertooth

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I kind of hope spirirts disconfirm fighters, just so we can seriously narrow down DLC speculation to a few key choices instead of yet again pulling from hundreds of characters that have like 2 requests but that makes them "eligible."
you mean because it gives Bandana Dee less competition

it's ok i simpathize with how Dixie Kong isn't an assist fighter to my relief
 
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meleebrawler

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I kind of hope spirirts disconfirm fighters, just so we can seriously narrow down DLC speculation to a few key choices instead of yet again pulling from hundreds of characters that have like 2 requests but that makes them "eligible."
Yeah, just so I'm not disappointed later on.
So you guys care more about being "right" about who gets in instead of supporting characters you genuinely like more than others?
 

Idon

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So you guys care more about being "right" about who gets in instead of supporting characters you genuinely like more than others?
Pft, no. Read my post more carefully.

I'll support whoever regardless of being deconfirmed or not. (Speaking as a Lyn supporter for 15 ****ing years and counting)
I just know to keep my expectations low so I don't feel betrayed later on if and when my wants don't turn out to not happen. I could care less about being right or wrong at the end of the day.
 

Mogisthelioma

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So you guys care more about being "right" about who gets in instead of supporting characters you genuinely like more than others?
I just want the speculation to die out already. At this point I only care about 2-3 fighters getting in, I'm worn out.
 

Golden Icarus

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Yeah I would not say that it necessarily deconfirms a fighter. But I do feel that it makes them very unlikely for at least the first DLC pack. It really does seem like they were planning this DLC lineup for quite some time, and if they were planning on putting in a crazy character like, let’s say, Geno. I feel like they would have tried to leave him out of the game entirely, until his announcement as DLC.

However, also do not think that it entirely rules out the possibility of the character being playable. There’s no reason to think that Sakurai could’ve really had a vision for a spirit in the game, and shortly after Nintendo could’ve decided that that Spirit was a character that they feel should be playable. It’s entirely possible. I just don’t see as likely.

If/Once a second wave of DLC comes around though, all bets are off. That’s when I feel that literally any character with any role will have a shot. Whether they be a Spirit, an assist trophy, or just a poor Toad that can’t seem to escape Peach’s moveset.
 

Deathcarter

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Nintendo management chose the DLC characters this time so they're hardly going to let some meaningless jpeg image Sakurai and his team put into the game for fun stop them from considering a character. No suit would ever let very arbitrary rules like that get in the way of business. I'd go so far as to say that even the Assist Trophies/Pokeballs are back on the table.

And no 1st party DLC wouldn't be finalized/decided in 2015-2016, not as long as any actual development of the characters had yet to start so characters like Elma and Bandana Dee aren't frontrunners just because they don't have a confirmed spirit.
 
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Sabertooth

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I kind of hope spirirts disconfirm fighters, just so we can seriously narrow down DLC speculation to a few key choices instead of yet again pulling from hundreds of characters that have like 2 requests but that makes them "eligible."
Now that Bandaddle Dee is a spirit, do you still feel this way?
 
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ProfPeanut

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If we interpret Spirits as Sakurai's current opinion on how a character should be represented in Smash, then we could certainly take Spirits as soft deconfirmations. But only if Sakurai continues to choose the DLC.

Since nebulous entity Nintendo decided the DLC list, then they wouldn't likely see Sakurai's Spirit choices in the same manner - and there are so many perfectly-decent candidates ruled out by being a spirit. There's no guarantee that Nintendo would either respect leaving anyone already assigned as a Spirit alone, or go after anyone left conspicuously open by Sakurai.

This of course assumes that the entirety of the Fighter Pass won't just be unrepresented third-parties who wouldn't have a spirit anyway (besides Rayman and Shantae), because then the whole argument would be moot.
 

soviet prince

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it would be stupid having a sticker being the reason for then not putting a character in the game. if Nintendo wants him in he will get in esp if there is a 2nd season of dlc
 

KafkaKomedy

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God I hope not. With Elma, Dee, Shantae, Dixie, Rayman, and DeMille being spirits who the hell could the DLC even be other than 3rd parties?
 

Idon

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Nope.
However, I do think the majority of characters people want that are echoes wouldn't make it in due to their own slew of issues and hurdles holding them back.
 

Blue Rose

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Way too many potential fighters are spirits, I don't have any idea on who the DLC characters could be if we exclude characters that are already spirits.
 

meleebrawler

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If anyone is still holding onto "plot" arguments:



Well, there you have it. Just as I suspected, the spirits don't have control over the actions of their puppets. Galeem does.

The wording implies Galeem didn't destroy the trophy bodies these spirits inhabited, he's just holding them captive. So if you were to reclaim one the spirit belonged to...

Well, suffice it to say plot consistency isn't really an obstacle to spirits being playable in the future at this point.
 

RileyXY1

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Way too many potential fighters are spirits, I don't have any idea on who the DLC characters could be if we exclude characters that are already spirits.
If Spirits are deconfirmation then that means that all we're getting for DLC are third parties without representation in the base roster and upcoming first party characters like a FE 3 Houses character or a Gen 8 Pokemon. I do not think that this is realistic.
 

Bandanna_Waddle_Dee

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If they do then DLC is going to be incredibly underwhelming. Pretty much every fan favorite/highly requested character has been seen as a spirit. That leaves promotional characters and/or a bunch of third parties left.
 

RileyXY1

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If they do then DLC is going to be incredibly underwhelming. Pretty much every fan favorite/highly requested character has been seen as a spirit. That leaves promotional characters and/or a bunch of third parties left.
That's why I don't think that Spirits are deconfirmations.
 

CHAMPIONX9

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I was on the fence, but now I think it is the case that spirits are a deconfirm. Only 5 characters are planned so the fact that most characters are seen as spirits doesn't help the cause. I think people just haven't thought of the dlc.
 

meleebrawler

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I was on the fence, but now I think it is the case that spirits are a deconfirm. Only 5 characters are planned so the fact that most characters are seen as spirits doesn't help the cause. I think people just haven't thought of the dlc.
I repeat again: they planned Mewtwo for Smash U but put a trophy of him in anyway.
 

Big-Cat

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The only thing that has been explicitly stated to rule out a character is an assist trophy.
 

DeadmanV2

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Honestly the main thing to me is that Nintendo is handling the DLC choices, where as there is no indication anyone but Sakurai and his team are handling Spirits. And while it is true that Spirits, being largely just PNGs, could have potentially been added after the DLC was decided, at this point we have no idea at what point in development happened. So any guesses as to whether Spirits could have anything to do with confirmation is speculation at best. If DLC was decided first, then potentially Sakurai could leave out characters that were chosen in order to keep that image available for the Fighter Spirit. However, if Spirits were decided first, it seems highly unlikely that Nintendo (or at least, whoever from Nintendo is making these choices which is another unknown quantity) would really care about characters already being represented as spirits. Furthermore, the only pre-2018 first character that makes sense that we haven't seen (as far as I can recall) is Elma. And if she wasn't in the game but other Xenoblade X spirits which we have seen are, that would be a dead giveaway she's DLC. Which would be very un-Sakurai like to not hide stuff like that. So really, if Spirits do deconfirm the character, that would mean that the characters would have to either be unreleased games (or at least recently released titles) or third party characters.

So essentially, I feel like it's way too early to tell if this is a rule. It's impossible enough to predict Sakurai, let alone an unknown number of people giving Sakurai a list and him deciding if he can make them a character. I would just not worry about it too much.
 

BKupa666

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No. Fundamentally the presence of Spirits does nothing to bar those characters from being playable. It just means a static image of them can imbue characters with specific properties, maybe with some themed match involving other characters with properties intended to evoke that character.

The crux of the "Spirits = disconfirmed" argument is basically "They wouldn't make a Spirit for someone they planned as DLC." Which, if someone can point me to the definitive proof they seem to be citing from for exactly when every Spirit was added and exactly when the DLC picks were made, I would appreciate it.
 

meleebrawler

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No. Fundamentally the presence of Spirits does nothing to bar those characters from being playable. It just means a static image of them can imbue characters with specific properties, maybe with some themed match involving other characters with properties intended to evoke that character.

The crux of the "Spirits = disconfirmed" argument is basically "They wouldn't make a Spirit for someone they planned as DLC." Which, if someone can point me to the definitive proof they seem to be citing from for exactly when every Spirit was added and exactly when the DLC picks were made, I would appreciate it.
I just don't get why a long-beloved feature since Melee of having a museum of Nintendo characters has to be turned into something we dread just because some people can't accept anything less than playable status for characters.
 
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BKupa666

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I just don't get why a long-beloved feature since Melee of having a museum of Nintendo characters has to be turned into something we dread just because some people can't accept anything less than playable status for characters.
Whether people accept NPC cameos in Smash or see the developers' intent in adding the cameos (in trophies, ATs, etc.) as throwing bones to fans of those characters is their own choice. And to be fair, becoming an AT seems to be a different sort of death sentence now that DLC is a thing than it was with Brawl...rather than leave those characters in the pool of eligible candidates, it effectively removes their chances, especially if (like with 4) there's a ballot and fans see them as out of the running.

But I don't think that should be a concern for anyone with Spirits. They're static images that, aside from the really cool nerdy conditions in some of their battles, didn't take much effort or thought to add.
 

Dan

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All I want to say is if Kaptain K. Rool is a Spirit, I don't see why a generic Waddle Dee would deconfirm Bandana Waddle Dee in any way.

I think today's announcer trailer was a soft deconfirmation that Spirits won't be wave one DLC characters. Geno passes the first test, but the online token (while not meaning anything) still scares me, and imo hurts his chances if nothing else. I'm expecting to like at least one DLC character.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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This is how I personally go about doing this...

Complete Deconfirmations
Assist Trophy
Stage Hazard
Pokeball Pokemon
Item
Alternate costume

Note: Dark Samus, Charziard, and Isabelle does not count as I was referring to the current game they are in. Isaac is a complete deconfirmation.

Moderate Deconfirmation
Story Mode element (precedent includes ROB and technically Piranha Plant)

Weak Deconfirmation
Stage element (precedent includes Toon Link)
Moveset element (precedent includes Chrom)
Mii Outfits (precedent includes Peach, Fox, Samus, Captain Falcon - all veterans)

Zero Deconfirmation
Trophies (precedent includes Lucas and Mewtwo)


Bearing that in mind, given that Spirits are treated as Trophies, I don’t think that they are a candidate for deconfirmation. However, it’s still unknown so they are...

Potential Deconfirmation
Spirits
Stickers

...Since we have no precedent in regards to DLC in this case.






And all of that was an excuse to make up categories while using font colors.
 
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