Do you think a character being a Spirit deconfirms them as a playable fighter?

[Dr. λ]

Different named variants count as different characters in Smash Bros. as is made obvious with Mario and Dr. Mario. So the inclusion of Kaptain K. Rool has nothing to do with King K. Rool because in Smash Bros. they are different characters.

 

[Sabertooth]

Don't you know? Kaptain K. Rool is King K Rool's brother. I learned that from his trophy in Brawl!

 

[Dr. λ]

Don't you know? Kaptain K. Rool is King K Rool's brother. I learned that from his trophy in Brawl!

I guess Dr. is just Mario's brother then. That makes sense, since it would be pretty weird for a plumber to be a doctor on the side.

 

[soviet prince]

Don't you know? Kaptain K. Rool is King K Rool's brother. I learned that from his trophy in Brawl!

I believe that was a mistake

 

[Calamitas]

I used to be on Team Yes for this, but by now, I have firmly moved into Team No. The deciding factor for me was Spirits for Elma and Bandana Dee being shown. . . while a Spirit Battle for another character from Xenoblade X just uses Smash 4's Xenoblade Medley, instead of any music from X. With Xenoblade having only three games, it really should've been possible for them to add some tracks from X, and yet there are none. This makes me feel that Elma is going to be a DLC character, complete with music from X, which in turn means that her Spirit and Spirit battle is not a deconfirmation.

 

[meleebrawler]

Spirits are meant to replace fighters while all fighters had trophies.

And all fighters are going to have spirits when you beat Classic with them. Your point?

Calamitas Don't you find it strange to hold not getting representation of some sort as heralding a greater chance of being added?

 

[Calamitas]

Calamitas Don't you find it strange to hold not getting representation of some sort as heralding a greater chance of being added?

Like I said, there's literally only three Xenoblade games. Entirely excluding music from just one of them is just way too odd, especially since there are songs in the game that could just be ported over and work. There are of course plenty of other things pointing towards Elma, but the music I feel is a good starting point in her favour.

Of course, we can't exactly know for certain until the reveal the first fighter of the pack, but until then. . .

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

And all fighters are going to have spirits when you beat Classic with them. Your point?

Fighter spirits for dlc characters are not going to be built in in the same vain as trophies.

 

[meleebrawler]

Fighter spirits for dlc characters are not going to be built in in the same vain as trophies.

Yeah, you're right. They'll probably do something crazy like... use a different piece of art to differentiate different spirits if there's multiple representing one character. Unbelievable, right?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I believe that was a mistake

He's being sarcastic. He knows.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

Yeah, you're right. They'll probably do something crazy like... use a different piece of art to differentiate different spirits if there's multiple representing one character. Unbelievable, right?

When there is multiple of a character it is called something else like "Gravity Suit" for samus and "Tree Pose" for wii fit. If a character is named, but is not a fighter then it's GG for them.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Why do people act like the 'reasoning of spirits' existence matters when we have items or vehicles also appearing as spirits?

 

[meleebrawler]

When there is multiple of a character it is called something else like "Gravity Suit" for samus and "Tree Pose" for wii fit. If a character is named, but is not a fighter then it's GG for them.

I keep presenting the evidence of Mewtwo having had a model made for a normal trophy in 4 only for them to make an entirely new one for the playable version and it's trophies, which was likely significantly harder to do than these spirits, but your only argument seems to be "spirits aren't trophies so their rules are completely different" which is completely baseless. Unless you've got some top secret source you aren't sharing.

The reason there aren't spirits directly representing a character that isn't a fighter version is likely due simply to them having been planned for the base roster early on, thus allowing them to easily avoid redundancy. But once DLC comes around all bets are off. All having a spirit and no playable version means is you weren't planned for the base roster.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

While spirits do not entirely deconfirm characters, you can't help but think that their role in the gameplay is meant to simulate "playing that character" without actually having to put them in the game as fully playable characters. Like they're trying to throw a bone to their fans as an apology for them not being playable. Am I making any sense?

 

[meleebrawler]

While spirits do not entirely deconfirm characters, you can't help but think that their role in the gameplay is meant to simulate "playing that character" without actually having to put them in the game as fully playable characters. Like they're trying to throw a bone to their fans as an apology for them not being playable. Am I making any sense?

Android 17 was a part of 18's moveset in FighterZ, not playable, and yet they made him playable solo later anyway.

So, yes, it is a bone, but it doesn't mean that's all they're willing to give.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

Android 17 was a part of 18's moveset in FighterZ, not playable, and yet they made him playable solo later anyway.

So, yes, it is a bone, but it doesn't mean that's all they're willing to give.

Right, but it indicates that that's all that they're willing to give at that point in time. Again, I'm not saying that they're totally deconfirmed, but right now it's not looking good for them.

 

[meleebrawler]

Right, but it indicates that that's all that they're willing to give at that point in time. Again, I'm not saying that they're totally deconfirmed, but right now it's not looking good for them.

And with that attitude, you're basically telling the devs that you're OK with that little representation and don't want or need more. Demand doesn't grow on trees. But if you must beat yourself up over the unlikelihood of a character getting in, at least do so with facts pertaining to said character, instead of imaginary fears of a new mechanic.

I will also say that being happy for what you got yet wanting more are not mutually exclusive.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

And with that attitude, you're basically telling the devs that you're OK with that little representation and don't want or need more. Demand doesn't grow on trees. But if you must beat yourself up over the unlikelihood of a character getting in, at least do so with facts pertaining to said character, instead of imaginary fears of a new mechanic.

I will also say that being happy for what you got yet wanting more are not mutually exclusive.

Dude, it's fine to support whatever character you want, and I'm not trying to stop you from doing that. At some point though, you just have to accept the fact that it's ultimately Sakurai's decision on which characters get in, and no amount of whining and complaining will ever change that. I think you're grossly overestimating the amount of power we actually have in the roster decisions. I mean, the only influence we ever had was the ballot, which was likely a once-in-a-lifetime event. Aside from that, I doubt Sakurai really cares about the recent happenings on Smashboards or Twitter. Because if he did, we would have Geno and Waluigi by now.

 

[Shotiro]

In the "World of Light" cinematic, we saw characters being killed by Galeem's attack and then becoming spirits. If the main roster can come back from being killed, I see no reason why characters, like Shantae and Pyra, can't be put in the roster.

 

[Buzzwole]

I certainly don't think it HELPS their chances, but I don't think anythings impossible.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

I keep presenting the evidence of Mewtwo having had a model made for a normal trophy in 4 only for them to make an entirely new one for the playable version and it's trophies

This statement has more details, not quite the same, so to write "I keep presenting the evidence of" is a misnomer.
At any rate it was different times back then. DLC for smash was in its infancy and mewtwo was an experiment in the process. By the time development for the base game was rounding down they didn't know who was gonna be dlc. If they knew mewtwo was gonna be in the game eventually they could've just not made the trophy. Pichu wasn't even a trophy for the wii u version, but they made a mewtwo trophy, by error. They have dlc way more planned out now so that wont happen with spirits.

but your only argument seems to be "spirits aren't trophies so their rules are completely different" which is completely baseless. Unless you've got some top secret source you aren't sharing.

The way spirits have been presented shows roster characters' names are not used for normal spirits. Anybody who is not on the roster have spirits with their names. This is pretty consistent. I have no reason to believe they will deviate from this.

 

[meleebrawler]

This statement has more details, not quite the same, so to write "I keep presenting the evidence of" is a misnomer.
At any rate it was different times back then. DLC for smash was in its infancy and mewtwo was an experiment in the process. By the time development for the base game was rounding down they didn't know who was gonna be dlc. If they knew mewtwo was gonna be in the game eventually they could've just not made the trophy. Pichu wasn't even a trophy for the wii u version, but they made a mewtwo trophy, by error. They have dlc way more planned out now so that wont happen with spirits.


The way spirits have been presented shows roster characters' names are not used for normal spirits. Anybody who is not on the roster have spirits with their names. This is pretty consistent. I have no reason to believe they will deviate from this.

They only announced the dlc was selected after the final direct, shortly before the game going gold. If they really had dlc in mind the way you think, why not just say so at the same time they announced dlc in the first place?

And do you truly believe Sakurai is the type to deliberately hold back content just to sell later?

 

[Koopaul]

Yeah I'm pretty sure Sakurai said that DLC isn't really decided until the game goes gold. That's not to say that Sakurai might be thinking about certain DLC ideas early on, but he usually sticks with the project plan he sets out to fulfill. Only afterwards does his team go on to make DLC content.

Also I don't expect that Sakurai even knows all the Spirits in the game by heart or was the one to select every single one of them individually. I'm sure it was his team that mostly just dumped a bunch of Nintendo renders they could get and his team made some fun event matches around them.

Do you really think that Sakurai went through hundreds of Nintendo artwork specifically selecting which ones will be a Spirit and which ones won't based on future DLC? Don't be ridiculous.

 

[Astraltar]

Simply put...I HOPE not. Then Shantae still has a chance.

 

[Mingy Jongo]

No Piranha Plant spirit in the data dump despite most other major Mario characters and enemies. That seems like pretty strong verification in support of spirits deconfirming fighters. We’ll probably be able to get its fighter spirit as part of the DLC.

 

[meleebrawler]

No Piranha Plant spirit in the data dump despite most other major Mario characters and enemies. That seems like pretty strong verification in support of spirits deconfirming fighters. We’ll probably be able to get its fighter spirit as part of the DLC.

Here's a counterpoint to this actively reducing chances:

It doesn't help, but contrary to popular belief, it doesn't hurt either.

The last time we got a DLC announcement prior to a game's release, was for the Wii U. The 3DS version was already out for some time, along with it's Mewtwo trophy. So it's likely Mewtwo as DLC wasn't considered until near the end of development. We don't have that prior release muddying things up for the Plant, though; he was far enough done to have a gameplay trailer in his announcement before release, whereas Mewtwo only had a model until much later. For all intents and purposes, Piranha Plant was treated like a base roster character.

Going off of what Koopaul said, you can't honestly say Plant wasn't planned for the base roster with how close he currently is to being completed, and thus the devs saw no need to put a normal Piranha Plant spirit when a fighter one would be assured. He's only being released as DLC due to time constraints.

 

[Cyn]

There is already a thread for this.
https://smashboards.com/threads/do-spirits-deconfirm-fighters.463199/