Do you think a character being a Spirit deconfirms them as a playable fighter?

Do you think Spirits (ex. Shantae, Big Boss, Gooey, Etc.) deconfirm their Characters?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 23.2%
  • No

    Votes: 109 76.8%

  • Total voters
    142
Status
Not open for further replies.

SUDOZELDA

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 6, 2018
Messages
454
Location
California, US
#4
I dont think it does tbh. Now if the character is an assist trophy, (Knuckles for example) than the character is deconfirmed since they created a moveset for it.

I think there is thread for this already if im not mistaken?
 
Last edited:

maxistrife

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
125
#10
Not really. I think spirits being patched out might upset people as opposed to assist trophies, but I think they can easily remove them and make them a playable character. Or really, a spirit has such a tiny role that I could see a character having both a spirit and playable character form.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
21,996
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
NNID
TPitch5
#11
I just realized something after playing around with Spirit concepts. Apparently, Fighter Spirits can't be used at all, period, so if a character is made into a Primary Spirit or Support Spirit, he/she truly is out of the running for a playable promotion, unless DLC fighters don't follow the same rules as the base game fighters.
 

KingofPhantoms

The Spook Factor
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
28,486
Location
Southern California
3DS FC
1006-1145-8453
NNID
Ravenant
#14
Unless we get an official confirmation that they do at some point, I refuse to believe they do.

Spirits do provide statistic benefits to fighters yeah, but at the end of the day all they are otherwise are simple still images, often pieces of official artwork. I really don't see why something like that would prevent other characters from joining the fray in the future. Even if there are some potential issues with that happening right now, the rules should be bendable in this instance, imo. Make some exceptions. Let characters who are already present as Spirits get a chance to join the game in playable form somewhere later down the line.
 

Mingy Jongo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
21
Location
Ohio
#15
Out of over 500 spirits cataloged so far, not a single one (other than Daisy, who is also the only one so far specially classified as a "Fighter Spirit" that cannot be equipped) is a non-differently-named-variant (ie. Tree, Kaptain K. Rool, Meta Ridley) of a playable character: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SNmnZRMx0OWq6sX62QHBCmpYsGTXMGT-BqvJunoCRkM/edit#gid=0

Unless they have gone out of their way to not show any playable characters on purpose, it doesn't seem likely to me that any of the DLC fighters (who have already been selected) would also be a spirit as well. I wouldn't get your hopes up.
 
Last edited:

soviet prince

I am the terror that flaps in the night
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
3,105
Location
Kentucky
NNID
7066-9708-9591
#19
Out of over 500 spirits cataloged so far, not a single one (other than Daisy, who is also the only one so far specially classified as a "Fighter Spirit" that cannot be equipped) is a non-differently-named-variant (ie. Tree, Kaptain K. Rool, Meta Ridley) of a playable character: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SNmnZRMx0OWq6sX62QHBCmpYsGTXMGT-BqvJunoCRkM/edit#gid=0

Unless they have gone out of their way to not show any playable characters on purpose, it doesn't seem likely to me that any of the DLC fighters (who have already been selected) would also be a spirit as well. I wouldn't get your hopes up.
kap k rool is still king k rool
 

Terradrius

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
80
#20
Out of over 500 spirits cataloged so far, not a single one (other than Daisy, who is also the only one so far specially classified as a "Fighter Spirit" that cannot be equipped) is a non-differently-named-variant (ie. Tree, Kaptain K. Rool, Meta Ridley) of a playable character: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SNmnZRMx0OWq6sX62QHBCmpYsGTXMGT-BqvJunoCRkM/edit#gid=0

Unless they have gone out of their way to not show any playable characters on purpose, it doesn't seem likely to me that any of the DLC fighters (who have already been selected) would also be a spirit as well. I wouldn't get your hopes up.
Reminder that Mewtwo had a regular trophy in Smash 3DS at launch, as well as a Fighter Trophy after they released his DLC. I see no reasons why they couldn't do the same thing with spirits.
That's the main reason why that argument doesn't hold up for me. If a character has a spirit already, then they're in almost exactly the same situation as Mewtwo (and Lucas) were in in Smash 4, and those two still got in as DLC. I see no reason the situation here is fundamentally different, so I see spirits as still eligible for DLC.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
6,152
Location
Canada, Quebec
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
NNID
meleebrawler
#21
I just realized something after playing around with Spirit concepts. Apparently, Fighter Spirits can't be used at all, period, so if a character is made into a Primary Spirit or Support Spirit, he/she truly is out of the running for a playable promotion, unless DLC fighters don't follow the same rules as the base game fighters.
All you'd have to do is use a different piece of art to differentiate the primary and fighter spirit of a given character, that doesn't seem complicated at all.
 

Mingy Jongo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
21
Location
Ohio
#22
"kap k rool is still king k rool"
Did you miss the "differently-named variant" part of my post? You'd think that out of the literally hundreds of equippable spirits we would have seen at least one that's literally just a plain fighter. The fact that the only thing even close to fighters seen have been named-variants seems really suspect.

Two counter-arguments about trophies:
1: The DLC characters have *already* been chosen, and therefore the game has probably been designed with them in mind.
2: Sakurai specifically says in the November direct video that spirits are "a way to enjoy characters other than fighters".

It only takes one example to prove this theory wrong, and we'll know next month. If the pattern holds, I really doubt existing spirits will be made fighters.
 

RileyXY1

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
1,885
#23
I'm saying no. Spirits are very low effort, as they are just images taken from other games. They are also the replacement for trophies, and Lucas and Mewtwo made it as DLC despite being trophies in the base game.
 

COOKRE

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 7, 2016
Messages
32
Location
Germany
#24
I'd say no too. Wasn't the trailer's reasoning for why so many fighters are "spirits" that the light thing killed them all? Which included actual playable fighters too!
 

DatsKip

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
3
Location
Louisiana
3DS FC
0405-1335-6530
Switch FC
SW-3850-9738-5688
#25
I don't really have much of a subjective standpoint on it, but it'd really throw us all for a loop if a spirit transitioned to a playable character, and i'd be completely down with it.
 

COOKRE

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 7, 2016
Messages
32
Location
Germany
#26
I don't really have much of a subjective standpoint on it, but it'd really throw us all for a loop if a spirit transitioned to a playable character, and i'd be completely down with it.
that's a sick idea. Imagine they announce one of the DLC characters as "previously a spirit". Speculations would go rampant
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,036
Location
The Lor Starcutter
#28
Yes, only because although there are some characters who clearly will never be anything more than a spirit; this is Sakurai's way of recognizing as many video game characters as possible without making them fighters/assists.

But only some of them.

SOME OF THEM.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
505
#29
I feel like you can make an argument when talking about certain spirits that are alternate costumes that are unplayable for certain fighter but i feel that this spotted spirit for default daisy is all the proof we need that spirits are not a fighter deconfirmation.

 
Last edited:

Mingy Jongo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
21
Location
Ohio
#30
I feel like you can make an argument when talking about certain spirits that are alternate costumes that are unplayable for certain fighter but i feel that this spotted spirit for default daisy is all the proof we need that spirits are not a fighter deconfirmation.

Note that that is a special type of spirit, a "Fighter Spirit", that cannot be equipped. Presumably, every character has one or more that can be acquired by clearing Classic mode or challenges. I challenge anyone to find a single equippable spirit that has the same name as a playable character. Out of over 500, there isn't a single one spotted so far. On the other hand, it appears that some "fighter spirits" can be alternate skins of playable characters, such as Meta Ridley.

In other words, when referring to "spirits" in the most general terms, sure, there are playable characters that also exist in spirits. But that's not what we are really talking about, is it? We are wondering if the *equippable* spirits, those that Sakurai himself stated were "a way to enjoy characters other than fighters," can possibly be DLC fighters. It is tempting to compare this to trophies, but it is very clear that the concept and implementation of them, as ways those characters can "aid" fighters, is much different. Add in the fact that the DLC characters have already been decided on and I think that given the data we currently have, I would be very, very surprised if any equippable spirits materialize as playable characters.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
6,152
Location
Canada, Quebec
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
NNID
meleebrawler
#31
Note that that is a special type of spirit, a "Fighter Spirit", that cannot be equipped. Presumably, every character has one or more that can be acquired by clearing Classic mode or challenges. I challenge anyone to find a single equippable spirit that has the same name as a playable character. Out of over 500, there isn't a single one spotted so far. On the other hand, it appears that some "fighter spirits" can be alternate skins of playable characters, such as Meta Ridley.

In other words, when referring to "spirits" in the most general terms, sure, there are playable characters that also exist in spirits. But that's not what we are really talking about, is it? We are wondering if the *equippable* spirits, those that Sakurai himself stated were "a way to enjoy characters other than fighters," can possibly be DLC fighters. It is tempting to compare this to trophies, but it is very clear that the concept and implementation of them, as ways those characters can "aid" fighters, is much different. Add in the fact that the DLC characters have already been decided on and I think that given the data we currently have, I would be very, very surprised if any equippable spirits materialize as playable characters.
Given that you can have duplicates of any given spirit, it's not a stretch for a character to have both a fighter spirit and an equippable one. They're all just trophies at the end of the day, and they're clearly not one-of-a-kind.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
505
#32
Note that that is a special type of spirit, a "Fighter Spirit", that cannot be equipped. Presumably, every character has one or more that can be acquired by clearing Classic mode or challenges. I challenge anyone to find a single equippable spirit that has the same name as a playable character. Out of over 500, there isn't a single one spotted so far. On the other hand, it appears that some "fighter spirits" can be alternate skins of playable characters, such as Meta Ridley.

In other words, when referring to "spirits" in the most general terms, sure, there are playable characters that also exist in spirits. But that's not what we are really talking about, is it? We are wondering if the *equippable* spirits, those that Sakurai himself stated were "a way to enjoy characters other than fighters," can possibly be DLC fighters. It is tempting to compare this to trophies, but it is very clear that the concept and implementation of them, as ways those characters can "aid" fighters, is much different. Add in the fact that the DLC characters have already been decided on and I think that given the data we currently have, I would be very, very surprised if any equippable spirits materialize as playable characters.
I did not notice that, with that being said it would make more since that non-fighter spirits may not be dlc, still kind of on the fence about it but i guess we will have to wait and see, thanks for adding this important detail though.
 

Jexulus

Omnivore of the Year
Joined
Feb 4, 2011
Messages
356
3DS FC
3883-5870-2795
NNID
Jexulus
#33
Incoming copypasta.

Super Sonic, Robobot Kirby, and others say hi. Being a playable character does not disqualify someone from having equip-able spirits based on them. Even taking into account that these are variants, they're still based on the fighters. Smash 4 also featured trophies based on Mewtwo and Lucas, which did not discount them from the DLC treatment. These are things developed concurrently, and DLC is evaluated later in the game's development. By the same token, we've seen a very, very small portion of the Spirits that will be available, so the fact that certain characters have not appeared yet is not evidence of anything.

In other words, using Spirits as an indicator for anything DLC-wise is moot, barring an official source outright stating otherwise.

Mingy Jongo, you do make a good point about Primary/Support Spirits sharing their name exactly with a character (A Sonic spirit named "Sonic" using artwork of his normal form as opposed to Super Sonic), but I'm not sure that's a death knell in either direction. We don't have any evidence that you're right any more that I'm right, or anyone else for that matter.
 

BioZelink

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Messages
186
3DS FC
4811-7130-3977
NNID
Biozelink
#35
Not really. There are spirits of the playable characters we have right now, so obviously not.
 

CaptainAmerica

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
2,828
Location
New York
#40
Normally no - I think anyone should be possible...

...but with the news that the DLC characters were planned early - as in, they already know who’s gonna be in and the game’s a month out - it seems like they’d have taken the spirit out before the game went gold.

Now if there’s a season 2 inbound, or even if we get random echoes dropped, then I think they’re back on the table. But for this DLC pack, nope.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top