Do you agree with Sheik's current placing on the Tier List?

[Bil]

I personally think it should be like this

Top
Sheik 10.0
Marth 9.9
Fox 9.9
Falco 9.3

So no, I don't agree with her current placing.

 

[Dark Hart]

I personally have always thought that Sheik was #1. Her match-up are just too good compared to the rest of the cast. I can settle with her being below Fox in a #2 spit, but not below Marth. Sheik's only losing match-ups are against spacies, and that's a 45-55 in spacies favor. Besides that, I believe that it's pretty accurate.

 

[Vts]

lies sheik loses to IC, i think she is in the right place but maybe tied with marth/fox since they are both 9.9 and sheik is 9.7

 

[Dark Hart]

lies sheik loses to IC, i think she is in the right place but maybe tied with marth/fox since they are both 9.9 and sheik is 9.7

lies, Sheik loses to Chu and Wobbles. =P

 

[Alphicans]

I realize match-up wise, sheik loses 2 spacies, but both space animals can get gayed easily by many characters. Although on paper matchups proove to be in fox's favour, I think in reality he can be gayed easily due to his predictability, light weight, and characteristic of getting cg'd by a lot of the cast. I think Sheik should be above marth, and below fox.

 

[Bil]

Falco vs. Sheik is 50/50 iirc. Fox vs. Sheik is 55/45

 

[KirbyKaze]

I've always felt Falco was Sheik's worst matchup.

Oh well.

Sheik is best character IMHO.

 

[Alphicans]

I didn't mean sheik vs spacies, i meant comparing her matchups to spacies.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I was replying to Bil.

I think Fox and Falco have better individual moves and strategies and the best pressure in the game but Sheik's range and versatility ultimately makes her the better character.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Whoa, KirbyKaze, new avatar.

I dunno, I don't think anyone's really proved how good Sheik is, whereas people like Ken and Mew2King have done that for Marth.

Same for Fox, etc.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

lies sheik loses to IC

sheik most definitely beats ICs. she can outcamp them, should never get grabbed, one combo means nana dies if you're diligent, and it's very easy to destroy popo 1v1.

i really don't think it's worth discussing the differences between fox/marth/sheik, it's like a 9.9 to 9.8 to 9.7 -- it's not a big enough difference to really matter for the vast majority of people. it's just for people playing theory craft.

but theory craft is fun so i'll bite.

falco counters sheik if falco camps. a smart campy falco can just dissect sheik apart and it's really hard for sheik to ever mount anything against it. falco's margin of skill to pull it off is much higher than sheik's, which is why i think a lot of people call it even or say sheik has the advantage or w/e, but once you get to that skill with falco you definitely have the advantage.

i think sheik v fox is pretty even, it's just that the margin of skill has to be higher for the sheik player. sheik just can't mess up, but if she doesn't -- which at the pro level she won't -- then it becomes brutal for both sides and personally one of the most frustratingly fun matchups in the game.

i think marth's severe problems with both falcon and sheik make him unable to contend with fox and sheik for the crown. but if you believe ICs actually counters sheik then i see no way you can have sheik as above or equal to fox, who is really on a plane of his own.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think KoreanDJ showed a great deal of what Sheik is capable of but then he quit shortly after.

55/45 matchups I consider pretty much even, which is why I consider Fox/Sheik 55/45 in Fox's favour. Very few matchups (other than dittos) are completely dead even anyways. Someone usually has an advantage (even if it's small).

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I think it was said that KoreanDJ didn't really do anything different from other Sheiks, he just did it better.

Honestly, while I think KoreanDJ is an amazing player and stuff, it was his mindgames that set him apart, which really don't reflect too much on the character.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

mindgames, such a bad word.

no, KDJ illustrated how powerful sheik is. he abused dash attacks (and the resulting auto combos) and edge guarding, and just was aggressive with superb spacing. mindgames is a word used for those that don't understand what he was doing.

 

[Dark Hart]

mindgames, such a bad word.

no, KDJ illustrated how powerful sheik is. he abused dash attacks (and the resulting auto combos) and edge guarding, and just was aggressive with superb spacing. mindgames is a word used for those that don't understand what he was doing.

True. KDJ played Sheik very differently than most, but it seems somewhat subtle only because it's Sheik. From what I've seen, he never tech-chased a down-throw into another tech-chased down-throw, like Tope does; Nor did he use the same 3-5 attacks over and over, like Drephen does. These are the main ways Sheik are played nowadays, and KDJ was neither.

 

[KirbyKaze]

d-throw u-smash for life

 

[Bil]

Dark Hart I hear you're as good as Forward.

D-throw -> D-smash cuz tehcing don exits

 

[KirbyKaze]

u-smash > fox techs

 

[otg]

The difference in tiers between Marth/Fox and Sheik is almost negligible. They all might as well be tied. I think the reason Sheik and Falco are both lower than Marth/Fox is that both of there recoveries are much more easily punished. Fox's fire fox goes much farther and as a result is more flexible than Falco's, and a Marth with good DI has many options while recovering. Now obviously, Sheik can potentially throw out a few Fairs if she needs to, but all you really have to do is edgehog, and smash her back off during her landing lag and lets not even talk about Falco.

 

[ArcNatural]

I think it was said that KoreanDJ didn't really do anything different from other Sheiks, he just did it better.

Honestly, while I think KoreanDJ is an amazing player and stuff, it was his mindgames that set him apart, which really don't reflect too much on the character.

mindgames, such a bad word.

no, KDJ illustrated how powerful sheik is. he abused dash attacks (and the resulting auto combos) and edge guarding, and just was aggressive with superb spacing. mindgames is a word used for those that don't understand what he was doing.

The reason why KDJ was so good with Sheik was because he was the only one that doesn't play Sheik like everyone else does. I have never seen anyone come close to being able to mimic KDJ style of play. It's not just the edgegaurding, it's the general randomness.

Upsmash to rising fair l-cancel on platform jab to falling fair? Only KDJ.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Now obviously, Sheik can potentially throw out a few Fairs if she needs to, but all you really have to do is edgehog, and smash her back off during her landing lag and lets not even talk about Falco.

not true. DI well and get back to the stage with an air dodge or reach the ledge with your second jump so they have to get up.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I guess I can see your... guys' collective points.

Dunno, we have any contacts in SBR?

 

[KirbyKaze]

tier list =/= who's best by theory smash or argument it's just who's best by who wins tournaments and places well. there is some theory smash that goes into it but mostly no.

it sucks that kdj quit before pound 2, fcd, oc3, etc.

 

[soap]

id put sheik back above marth, keep falco at 4th. but top 4 are interchangeable too me really, threads like these are too nitpicky

 

[KirbyKaze]

but what will happen if nits go unpicked!?!

we don't know! therefore we can't let that happen!

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

I personally think it should be like this

Top
Sheik 10.0
Marth 9.9
Fox 9.9
Falco 9.3

So no, I don't agree with her current placing.

That's funny that you give Sheik a ten...ten would be the perfect character, which she is not. Her recovery is EASILY punishable and she has troubling matchups against Fox and Falco.

 

[Dark_Crono]

i dont agree with her position but its true that theres no one to show how good she really is so theres nothing we can do about it until KDJ starts playing again.

 

[Dark_Crono]

The difference in tiers between Marth/Fox and Sheik is almost negligible. They all might as well be tied. I think the reason Sheik and Falco are both lower than Marth/Fox is that both of there recoveries are much more easily punished. Fox's fire fox goes much farther and as a result is more flexible than Falco's, and a Marth with good DI has many options while recovering. Now obviously, Sheik can potentially throw out a few Fairs if she needs to, but all you really have to do is edgehog, and smash her back off during her landing lag and lets not even talk about Falco.

Ive heard that you can edge cancel Sheiks UpB at least Zod did it in a tourney here, a friend of mine told me it was so good that it was funny xD.

Edit: Sorry for the double post

 

[nicaboy]

That's funny that you give Sheik a ten...ten would be the perfect character, which she is not. Her recovery is EASILY punishable and she has troubling matchups against Fox and Falco.

man sheik vs falco can really go either way now fox is a different story
not that it matters sheik is where she belongs 3rd. you guys see the updated list recently she still is 3rd marth second gay fox 1st. falco drop too forth thank god cuz his recovery is horrible.
all in all sheik can handle all of her match ups even if on paper she loses too falco and fox.
why worry about ic's who the **** p[lays them

 

[ss118]

I lol at anyone saying that shiek has a bad matchup against falco.

I do agree with shiek's tier placing, which is 9.7

 

[DoH]

M2K is really adamant about Sheik being the best character.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

That's funny that you give Sheik a ten...ten would be the perfect character, which she is not. Her recovery is EASILY punishable and she has troubling matchups against Fox and Falco.

I dont think he means sheik as a perfect character just because he gave her ten.
That would that the SBR thinks that fox and marth are 0.2 points from being the "perfect" character, which cant be true (they have way to many weaknesses)

I agree with sheik being the best char, btw

 

[Mew2King]

i just 4 stocked jiano yesterday in sheik vs falcon because of the broken tech chase and sheik being a way too good character; i really doubt i could do this with a different character. Sheik is a broken character that just so happens to be severely underused. I use marth to CG spacies, fox in teams half the time (the other half sheik), and sheik vs like half the cast.

 

[KirbyKaze]

m2k did you use sheik, fox, or marth against darkrain?

 

[Mew2King]

i used sheik against darkrain, i beat him 2 stock really low % on DL64 and then i won a close game on brinstar, although the brinstar match was just silly/stupid lol.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Where any of those matches recorded?
If so I can't wait to see them
BTW which character did you use mainly in the tourny? (event 52)
(sorry for going a bit off topic)

 

[Mew2King]

darkrain one was, jiano wasn't.

I used sheik for at least half of the tourney

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Too bad jiano matches weren't recorded Can't wait to see the darkrain matches tho, hope they're put online soon

hmm so much for people saying you say sheik is the best char in the game as some kind of john btw

 

[soap]

he just got good with her to promote his john

 

[Dark Hart]

Dark Hart I hear you're as good as Forward.

Yes, yes I am.